Achievement Points Cap?

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > Considering that it would require from them to log in and play daily for over 4 years just to reach the current cap, no, that's not really lazy. That's dedicated.

>

> So you are calling "dedicated" a player logging in daily for 4 years to finish the daily AP, then logging out, and NOT a player that finished every piece of content the game has to offer.

Yes. Because the first person plays the game every day, while the second doesn't want to anymore. Sure, the veteran player might have been more dedicated _in the past_, but that's already in the past - it's clear that second person does _not_ want to be so dedicated anymore.

 

> A player that logs in for Festivals and new Episode releases and finishes every single achievement provided by them, for 4 years shows much more dedication than a player simply logging in for the dailies for 4 years.

But a way less than someone that does all those things _and_ logs in every day.

 

> > In the end, the cap was introduced because a certain group of players _wanted to put less effort into the game_. If that's not a desire to be lazy, then i don't know what is.

>

> Because they already put more effort than other players in finishing the rest of the permanent achievements first.

Sure. And then they decided they prefer not to have to put too much effort in order to retain that advantage. They asked for a cap because they _decided they would rather be lazy from that point on_.

 

> Now players who are too lazy to finish the permanent achievements want the cap lifted so they can reach what those other players have, without putting any effort. If that's not a desire to be lazy then I don't know what is.

Again, with the (false) assumption that all people that ask for cap removal don't do the permanent achievements.

 

> > You are not gaining APs from dailies now.

>

> Exactly. So I don't lose anything now.

>

> > You would be gaining APs from dailies from that point on. That's not a loss.

>

> But I'd "lose" all the AP I would've gotten if the cap isn't removed.

That "loss" can be blamed only on introducing the cap in the first place. Yes, you could have obtained all those APs, but as you said, you didn't _because the cap was not removed earlier_. It's the cap itself that prevented you from gaining those APs, not its removal.

 

Again, it's like blaming your employer for a pay raise because by doing that they made you suffer a loss for all those years of your work at your previous wage, and saying you'd be better off without that pay raise, because then there would be no "loss" for you.

 

> To stay with the game we play, when they added collection/wardrobe achievements, they retroactively awarded those points to those that had unlocked the items/skins/achievements in the past. So there is more than enough precedent for retroactively giving achievement rewards.

I agree. Unfortunately for you they can't do that, because the dailies are _not_ tracked in any way. They simply don't know how many dailies you've done after you've passed the cap. As such, they cannot retroactively reward you with AP for them. Just like in the case of wardrobe, when they did _not_ unlock skins for objects you've obtained at some point, but deleted before wardrobe update happened. And like in case of the exotic trinket collection they didn't retroactively unlock the items you've obtained in the past, but (again) lost before the collection was introduced (i.e. i have salvaged Sam barely a week before the collection happened - and they did not unlock it for me). So, there's enough precedense for not giving rewards retroactively if they cannot track your past eligibility for them.

 

 

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> Yes. Because the first person plays the game every day, while the second doesn't want to anymore. Sure, the veteran player might have been more dedicated _in the past_, but that's already in the past - it's clear that second person does _not_ want to be so dedicated anymore.

 

That doesn't make any sense. The first person plays a few minutes every day, while the second plays a few days, but plays MANY hours. How is a person that logs in every time there is a new episode or festival and finishes all available content "not dedicated", compared to a player that simply logs for a couple minutes to finish the daily.

 

> > A player that logs in for Festivals and new Episode releases and finishes every single achievement provided by them, for 4 years shows much more dedication than a player simply logging in for the dailies for 4 years.

> But a way less than someone that does all those things _and_ logs in every day.

 

How many players are gonna continue logging every day and at the same time continue finishing every achievement, past and new, is anyone's guess. Those will be more dedicated than the players that finished all the achievements but stopped caring about the daily AP. But those will also not be the only ones affected by the removal of the cap.

 

> > Because they already put more effort than other players in finishing the rest of the permanent achievements first.

> Sure. And then they decided they prefer not to have to put too much effort in order to retain that advantage. They asked for a cap because they _decided they would rather be lazy from that point on_.

 

How are you still saying that is anyone's guess. They still login and finish all achievements when a new episode, expansion or festival is released. They still put more effort and dedication than the vast majority of players that will be affected by the removal of the cap, those that will simply login for the daily and then logout. Those are the lazy ones.

 

> > Now players who are too lazy to finish the permanent achievements want the cap lifted so they can reach what those other players have, without putting any effort. If that's not a desire to be lazy then I don't know what is.

> Again, with the (false) assumption that all people that ask for cap removal don't do the permanent achievements.

 

And again with the (false) assumption that the removal of the cap will only affect those doing the permanent achievements AND the daily ones. In fact the vast majority of accounts on this game have a tiny amount of Achievement Points because they simply don't do the permanent ones. But the cap removal will indeed allow those players to lazily acquire any achievement award without putting any effort, the only factor being time.

 

> > > You are not gaining APs from dailies now.

> >

> > Exactly. So I don't lose anything now.

> >

> > > You would be gaining APs from dailies from that point on. That's not a loss.

> >

> > But I'd "lose" all the AP I would've gotten if the cap isn't removed.

> That "loss" can be blamed only on introducing the cap in the first place. Yes, you could have obtained all those APs, but as you said, you didn't _because the cap was not removed earlier_. It's the cap itself that prevented you from gaining those APs, not its removal.

 

No the loss is only blamed on a potential removal of the cap. It's the cap itself that doesn't cause me to lose any AP, because I can't gain any in the first place. Once the cap is removed that safety is also gone and I will indeed lose thousands of potential achievement. Introducing the cap did not cause me to "lose" AP, removing it will.

 

> > To stay with the game we play, when they added collection/wardrobe achievements, they retroactively awarded those points to those that had unlocked the items/skins/achievements in the past. So there is more than enough precedent for retroactively giving achievement rewards.

> I agree. Unfortunately for you they can't do that, because the dailies are _not_ tracked in any way.

 

Then they can easily give 10 AP for every day that passed between reaching the cap and the day they remove it. That's not like the deletion of items prior to the wardrobe, there is an easy way to calculate how many they should award all their players.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > And I don't see how the addition of the cap demotivated you and your friends from playing the game. I play the game for the content it provides, not the daily AP. See how that works.

> Removing the cap would not remove any content from the game, so i don't see why it would affect you at all.

>

 

Assumption:

You are a new player. You join this game late. You might not be super competitive, but you would like to catch up in AP to some extent. Veteran players are years ahead already atm, now you get to tell that person: sorry but you will NEVER catch up daily AP wise and this discrepancy continues to grow form now on even beyond 4 years (which is already hilariously long). All AP rewards need to be balanced around the new maximum which will too continue to grow, making these even less achievable for new players.

 

Next assumption:

You have easy 10 AP per day available to you opening up all achievement rewards as achievable as a function of time, instead of time and content played. You now only go for the easy 10 AP from dailies forgoing the permanent achievements. Content in the game loses players.

 

Net result:

other players are affected by this change in not a positive way. For what? To solve an issue with player retention which has far more to do with content and delivery of interesting content via daily grinds.

[Gorani.7205]

All that new discussion after Woodenpotatoes daily video? *grin*

I think that the biggest player influx the game had that I would consider "new players to the game that want to catch up" was with Path of Fire. That happened in September 2017. This means that PoF players will catch up with the "basic game veterans" in a few months, when they too have reached the 15k AP cap from dailies.

I don't mind the cap and I don't need it to be raised.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Gorani.7205" said:

> All that new discussion after Woodenpotatoes daily video? *grin*

 

Thread was created on the 23rd, was revived on the 30th, the WP video went live on the 31st. Just saying.

[aspirine.6852]

> @"Gorani.7205" said:

> All that new discussion after Woodenpotatoes daily video? *grin*

> I think that the biggest player influx the game had that I would consider "new players to the game that want to catch up" was with Path of Fire. That happened in September 2017. This means that PoF players will catch up with the "basic game veterans" in a few months, when they too have reached the 15k AP cap from dailies.

> I don't mind the cap and I don't need it to be raised.

 

Dont need it, but I also dont see why not.. I think perhaps Anet underestimates how many people would start doing dailies again when they unlease it.. And by now why not?

[DarcShriek.5829]

If you're gonna increase the AP cap on dailies, then you should increase the AP cap on salvaging items.

 

Every way of earning AP has a cap on it. Why should dailies be any different?

[Nilkemia.8507]

This cap, if it exists, is another contrived pointless limitation that should be removed.

[Ayrilana.1396]

Fair from pointless when it prevents non-daily AP from being watered down.

[Solvar.7953]

If daily AP is removed, this opens a slippery slope - as noted, salvaging has a cap. All the festivals have APs which you can do some number of times for AP points, and then award 0 AP, but the achievement is still repeatable - should those be unlimited also? There are probably lots of other repeatable achievements that cap out AP.

 

[TheMaverick.6104]

Reached the cap ages ago, but i still do dailies. I shifted my focus for dailies to pvp/wvw because of potions. The two Gold are also nice. Alao check if there is daily mystic forger, that gives a mystic coin.

[mercury ranique.2170]

I'll be honest. The leaderboards and the race to glory of the achievement points is a bit of silly in my opinion. To me, Achievement points are a personal reward and not something that should be competitive and due to the nature I do not take it as competitive either. The main reason is that the competition never was fair. The leaderboards where introduced about 9 months after release. By then there where allready unobtainable points (a few). More important, it was never clear you needed to keep track of all achievement points in a given time. So to reach the top of the leaderboards, you needed to just have the OCD to be completionist in nature to do those early AP's and therefor it is not a sign of being an excellent player.

 

Should they stop with the leaderboards?? Nah! Those in the lead are proud about it and let them be. The boards are pretty obscure anyways.

 

This also invalidates the argument to keep increasing the cap. I personally think that they are stuck here. they introduced the cap to protect the value of the leaderboards and by removing it, they devaluate the same leaderboard. They still do this with the unobtainable AP's, but originally it was in the planning to rerelease living world season one in a replayable format. As they left this, they have no way to remove the unobtainable AP's

 

My solution is to forget about the leaderboards, but also not changing anyting to them. Make AP's something truly personal. Keep the cap, but!!

Also add something that continues forever as an extra reward once you reached the cap.

 

[Dark Red Killian.3946]

They could make the daily achievement goal a repeatable achievement similar to how they do festival achievements. It shows the ap you can earn in the daily panel, like 10 points. And it is repeatable so if you go into the daily panel you can see your total ap earned from the daily achievement out of a max of 15k. Once you hit 15k, the repeatable achievement is still there, but it won’t show the 10 AP anymore. You would still get the 2g daily.