More “paths” to legendary gear...

[Stormscar.5489]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> @"Stormscar.5489" At least you cannot simply buy the stuff you need to do for the PvP and WvW legendary armor, while you can simply use your credit card to buy the kills to get raid armor. Or even better, afk farm enough gold to pay the raid sellers. The other parts of the collections are similar to those of some legendary weapons. I think for Nevermore you have to do more open world things than for legendary armor.

You don't need skill to get the WvW legendary armor either, if you wanna take that path. You just afk pip farm, cap some camps, do some karma train and there you go. Same with PvP, you don't need to get a high elo for the armour. Grind enough games at low elo where all the other bad players are and there you go. And honestly, it took me less time to get better at WvW than at raids. And this is because there are many other casuals on the enemy side too, people who can't move correctly, stay on tag etc.

> There is already a simple way for the unskilled players to get legendary armor through raids. The whole thing might cost you 5k gold in addition to the materials, but you don't need any skill to get the armor. Raid sellers, as far as I know, will ask you to /gg when they start, so you cannot mess anything up.

And the people who ask for other paths often want it from open world. You think open world requires skill?

> People who ask for more paths don't want to do that, they are not the lazy unskilled players who want everything for free, as you call them. They are willing to spend time and effort, they simply don't like raiding and the pug community it created. There are lots of static groups for raids and fractals with friendly and awesome people, we just don't see them because they don't need the LFG tool, and the raids happen in instances. That's why I say "pug raid community", it certainly doesn't include all players that raid. The raid experience outside a static group is horrible, that's what makes people ask for more paths. I know some really good players who are capable of doing the content, but they refuse to pug raids. And usually their schedule doesn't allow them to join a raid guild and find a static group.

 

Again, they ARE the lazy players. They are the ones who only open world. Pug toxicity is exaggerated, and it happens when some groups are made for people who want the fast clears with similarly experienced players, and a 25 LI raider joins them. There are plenty of low LI groups than are way more tolerant because they aren't that good themselves, but often low LI players try to join more experienced groups to get carried.

 

 

[Stormscar.5489]

> You honestly think that PvP and WvW ( player vs player systems) are EASIER than an artificial UI (raids) which is created and designed to lose? Mate, seriously? If anything, buying raid kills with money is muuuuch easier now (just look in the raid lfg at how many people sell kills). Cant see how you would pay people to let you be top pvp or wvw... Rewards. Thats the point. Dont care about your exclusive raid skin, i want decent rewards for the game mode i support.

 

Not easier, but they aren't as hard as you make them out to be. Remember that the mostly casual playerbase that is currently in PvE is also in PvP and WvW. The average skill level in those game modes is very low, and hence you don't need to be too good to get their associated rewards. PvP also has a small population, which means there's no incentives for the top of the PvP playerbase to get better since the competition is almost non existent. And you only need to grind enough games/wins at a low elo, you dont need to get a high rank for your reward. Similarly, in WvW you just have to farm rank and pips, which you can do easily by roaming and karma training.

 

As a PvE player who transitioned to WvW, it took me WAY less to get better at WvW. If a WvWer tries to learn raids and a raider tries to learn WvW, I am of the opinion the WvW player will take longer to learn the game mode than the other way round.

 

Also, just wanna say this again, I am not against exclusive rewards for PvP and WvW. What I strongly dislike is the legendaries that only require you to play open world and mindlessly grind gold/play a long time.

 

[STIHL.2489]

Just gonna call this now, that CU and CF, will pull the WvW community from this game like a band-aid on a hairy back no matter how much Anet tries to last ditch fix all their neglected stuff, because of long standing stupid stuff like this.

[Calador.2804]

Just my two cents but I think there should be a way to grind the parts of the game that you do like, to bypass the parts of the game that you don't. I come home from a hard day’s work and I get on GW2 to have fun, not be a second job. I don't care for the look of any of the legendary gear, I just want the functionality.

 

I honestly think a much better system would be to allow you to combine ascended gear to acquire that stat. You would then have a "precursor" of that item, but could only freely select between the stats you combined into the item. Once you had all the stats combined it would act as a legendary without the skin. I’d actually go one step further and have a process to make sigils/runes be selectable as well, like maybe combine the item and three sigils in the mystic forge. This way the slow grind would feel like it was always making real progress that you could use the entire time.

 

I’m not sure how much this would break the economy but it sure would be nice to be able to play with builds in PvE as freely as you do in PvP.

[Raizel.8175]

I don't really get why raid-content is as glorified as it is in GW2. The hardest part isn't the content itself, but to actually get into it, since GW2s raid-content (and also fractal-content) really suffers from... well... at least questionable design-choices and its community. Raids themselves are your pretty standard instanced PvE-content most other MMORPGs also offer. It's not that hard and shouldn't be some sort of elite/hardcore-stuff, since difficulty-wise, it isn't. Actually, the implementation of the holy trinity made the PvE easier than sticking with some sort of trinity-less concept; most encounters are some sort of spank 'n tank anyway. I'd rather guess that people wouldn't have problems with legendary PvE-armor being raidlocked, if they'd get into the content, which shouldn't be as hard as it is, since there are enough guides for both boss-mechanics and meta-builds. ANet really needs to disable the possibility of posting some kind of KP/LIs and should have its raid-team focus on PvE-balance-patches before actually pushing out more raid-content. We really need more diversity, since most LFGs mostly only look for Chronos or Druids.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> I don't really get why raid-content is as glorified as it is in GW2. The hardest part isn't the content itself, but to actually get into it, since GW2s raid-content (and also fractal-content) really suffers from... well... at least questionable design-choices and its community. Raids themselves are your pretty standard instanced PvE-content most other MMORPGs also offer. It's not that hard and shouldn't be some sort of elite/hardcore-stuff, since difficulty-wise, it isn't. Actually, the implementation of the holy trinity made the PvE easier than sticking with some sort of trinity-less concept; most encounters are some sort of spank 'n tank anyway. I'd rather guess that people wouldn't have problems with legendary PvE-armor being raidlocked, if they'd get into the content, which shouldn't be as hard as it is, since there are enough guides for both boss-mechanics and meta-builds. ANet really needs to disable the possibility of posting some kind of KP/LIs and should have its raid-team focus on PvE-balance-patches before actually pushing out more raid-content. We really need more diversity, since most LFGs mostly only look for Chronos or Druids.

 

It is what it is,. Those that were against raids knew this was going to happen, and tried to warn against it. But this is the community and the environment that Anet wants to pander to. They could have made a new cosmetic for the other modes, they chose not to. They could have made other paths to acquisition and have chosen not to. They have had a few years time and a full expansion to offer alternatives, and have chosen not to. At this point, it is what Anet wants.

 

I stand by what I said tho, this has not built favorable relations for them among the WvW community, and due to that, no doubt that many will jump ship to CU or CF., regardless of what token fixes Anet throws their way.

 

Hopefully however, they have built enough positive relations with those that enjoy the raids and WvW, that they will remain and continue to invest in this game., and keep the community active, who knows, this might turn out for the best.

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Assic.2746" said:

> People have time to farm maps for hours: Istan, bounty trains, champion trains, but when it comes to learning how to correctly play your profession in WvW/PvP/Raids then there is a problem: "I have work", "I have family", "I only play solo", "I don't have time".

 

I think it's more "I hate PvP (in GW2) from the bottom of my heart", but yes, time can also be an issue. The issue comes not from spending a specific amount of total time, but rather from spending time in large chunks and at specific times. You can join a bounty/HP train almost whenever you want, you can actually farm something whenever you want and for how long you want. You can jump into fractals at any time and spend 10 minutes there or hours, with random people, your choice. You cannot do that in WvW or raids. You need to find a group or create one, and that's a commitment of at least an hour to make it worthwhile. The same goes for raids. You cannot simply raid like you can do fractals. You'll have to gather a squad of 10 people and nobody will do that for a 6 minutes boss kill. My experience in pug raiding is that you spend 2 hours minimum (for a full wing) because it is highly unlikely that all 10 members who started will stay. Some players will leave and need to be replaced, they have other things to do in their life, and 80% of pug raiding is simply standing their idle. Unlike in bounty/HP trains, this affects the whole group.

 

So while I am totally willing to spend X hours total doing content for a reward, I want it in small chunks. Not in WvW though because the game mode sucks, and no force will make me get WvW gear and correctly play my profession there.

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > @"Stormscar.5489" said:

> > > It's so sad watching these kinds of discussion from players who are not interested in playing a GAME, but farmville or some of those other games were you basically afk and are rewarded. What happened with rewards being given out for skillful play, for getting better at the game and overcoming a difficult part of the content? For years we had legendaries, the supposed endgame goal, given out to anyone who afk farmed and barely ever had to do anything but 11111 in open world. When players who were interested in playing a GAME left seeing there was no challenge, most of the remaining playerbase were players used to getting handed stuff without actually having to understand GW2 at all.

> > >

> > > So the outrage isn't surprising when just a part of the new rewards started being tied to challenging content (Raids), those people cried that the game is becoming 'elitist'. And for people who say that GW2 shouldn't have raids, I'll remind you that GW1 had plenty of endgame PvE that required more than facerolling your keyboard (Vanquishing areas to a degree, and obviously areas such as UW/DoA/FoW, with their associated meta builds and comps). Saying raids aren't challenging is a total lie, unless you're maybe comparing to the difficulty of raids in other games, on which I don't have any recent experiences I can compare with so I don't know. But compared to what PvE was for years (open world/dungeons/non-CM fractals), they totally are.

> > >

> > > And I do support rewards to WvW/PvP as well that are tied behind them. The issue with those game modes is that they reveal less about the skill than the raid legendary armor, because it is much more likely you afk pip farm or you just grind enough PvP games at a low elo (buying 150LI or doing 2-3 bosses per week is much less likely to happen, but admit it can happen).

> > >

> > > In my opinion, the game needs more exclusive rewards tied to content where you need to learn and improve rather than a measure of how much you play/grind. And for people who use the excuse they don't have time to organise for a raid or can't find enough people to raid with, these are just excuses. And I'd like to remind you this is a MMO, you should have to play and coordinate with other players to beat content. Go play a single player game if you don't like it. And for the 10 man vs 5 man thing, it is a good design choice because you can introduce a wider variety of mechanics in a single fight when you can have 10 people available to do various tasks rather than 5.

> > >

> > > I think Anet catering to a casual player base unfortunately ruined what GW2 could have been. And by casual I don't mean someone who doesn't play too much, but someone who REFUSES to want to put any thought when playing this game. A game with GW2's combat system and lack of vertical progression but coupled with WoW's pve content and release cadence would have been awesome.

> >

> > You honestly think that PvP and WvW ( player vs player systems) are EASIER than an artificial UI (raids) which is created and designed to lose? Mate, seriously? If anything, buying raid kills with money is muuuuch easier now (just look in the raid lfg at how many people sell kills). Cant see how you would pay people to let you be top pvp or wvw... Rewards. Thats the point. Dont care about your exclusive raid skin, i want decent rewards for the game mode i support.

>

> Mate, don't take the wrong way, but you're vastly underestimating the skills needed to raid. They are different than what's needed in pvp modes, but that doesn't make them any less of a skill. When a PvEer sets foot in a WvW for the first time, he'd be a total noob. It will be the same for a vet WvW players trying to raid for the first time.

 

Never said raids are easy. On the contrary. It just feels like they overreward, sometimes. And other game modes underreward. That is all.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> The solution seems pretty obvious, doesn't it? Just raid for 3 hrs/week until you get all the selectable-stat ascended drops you need. Easy and fast, right?

So, you don't really care about effort put, your answer is "do it through raids" regardless of that?

 

[zealex.9410]

> @"UnDeadFun.5824" said:

> > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > @Cerberus.4315 said:

> > > > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > > Gonna go with no.

> > > > The current system is fine and there's no reason to change it to placate the OW only crowd.

> > >

> > > owpve has got to out number all other game modes together 10 to 1, without those players u wouldn't hav a game within 3 months

> >

> > and if everyone in said modes had legendary armor its prestige and wow factor would be 0. **_Thus it needs to be in modes where people have to actually put forth a dedicated effort to attain it. _**

> >

> > Sorry you don't like that, but im sure if you group with the 10 other people to the 1 that already raids, you can get through it.

>

> You mean like non raiders buying raids ?

 

What is the cost of buying the whole raid armor? 60-70k gold?

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > The solution seems pretty obvious, doesn't it? Just raid for 3 hrs/week until you get all the selectable-stat ascended drops you need. Easy and fast, right?

> So, you don't really care about effort put, your answer is "do it through raids" regardless of that?

>

 

My answer was "if you find raid rewards easy and fast, you should raid". Makes sense, no?

[Faaris.8013]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"UnDeadFun.5824" said:

> > > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > > @Cerberus.4315 said:

> > > > > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > > > Gonna go with no.

> > > > > The current system is fine and there's no reason to change it to placate the OW only crowd.

> > > >

> > > > owpve has got to out number all other game modes together 10 to 1, without those players u wouldn't hav a game within 3 months

> > >

> > > and if everyone in said modes had legendary armor its prestige and wow factor would be 0. **_Thus it needs to be in modes where people have to actually put forth a dedicated effort to attain it. _**

> > >

> > > Sorry you don't like that, but im sure if you group with the 10 other people to the 1 that already raids, you can get through it.

> >

> > You mean like non raiders buying raids ?

>

> What is the cost of buying the whole raid armor? 60-70k gold?

 

More like 10k I guess. Easy bosses go for 150 gold and harder ones for 200. I haven't checked everything, but my guess is that you'll need at least maybe 5k gold + the materials you need anyway. You can buy about 30 kills with 5k gold, all bosses twice. I think you need to kill specific bosses several times, and there is some randomness in the drops. Let's say you decide to buy 50 kills, that's between 8k and 9k gold (depends on how many of the hard bosses you want to do). That gives you enough LI and all kill proofs to easily get into pugs that carry you if you really need more kills. You could even ping the envoy armor ^^

 

In any case, it's far away from 60k gold. I would say 10k gold can be obtained by a lot of players, many have crafted or bought 3 legendary weapons or more, which cost the same. I think each armor piece costs about 400 gold in materials, so that's another 2400 gold, but you have to spend that much anyway.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > @"UnDeadFun.5824" said:

> > > > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > > > @Cerberus.4315 said:

> > > > > > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > > > > Gonna go with no.

> > > > > > The current system is fine and there's no reason to change it to placate the OW only crowd.

> > > > >

> > > > > owpve has got to out number all other game modes together 10 to 1, without those players u wouldn't hav a game within 3 months

> > > >

> > > > and if everyone in said modes had legendary armor its prestige and wow factor would be 0. **_Thus it needs to be in modes where people have to actually put forth a dedicated effort to attain it. _**

> > > >

> > > > Sorry you don't like that, but im sure if you group with the 10 other people to the 1 that already raids, you can get through it.

> > >

> > > You mean like non raiders buying raids ?

> >

> > What is the cost of buying the whole raid armor? 60-70k gold?

>

> More like 10k I guess. Easy bosses go for 150 gold and harder ones for 200. I haven't checked everything, but my guess is that you'll need at least maybe 5k gold + the materials you need anyway. You can buy about 30 kills with 5k gold, all bosses twice. I think you need to kill specific bosses several times, and there is some randomness in the drops. Let's say you decide to buy 50 kills, that's between 8k and 9k gold (depends on how many of the hard bosses you want to do). That gives you enough LI and all kill proofs to easily get into pugs that carry you if you really need more kills. You could even ping the envoy armor ^^

>

> In any case, it's far away from 60k gold. I would say 10k gold can be obtained by a lot of players, many have crafted or bought 3 legendary weapons or more, which cost the same. I think each armor piece costs about 400 gold in materials, so that's another 2400 gold, but you have to spend that much anyway.

 

Unlike buying a legendary off the TP, there's a lot of organization you need to do in order to buy 150 LI. So I don't think many would do that. Buy an occasional boss or achievement when they lose patience, yes. Even a whole collection. But the LI? I don't think so.

[STIHL.2489]

Anyone but me notice that there is always the suggestion to just buy a raid, from the raid proponents. Seems pretty clear why they want things the way they are. But I can't blame people for wanting to make money at the expense of other players, but I can blame Anet for fostering that kind of environment.

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> Unlike buying a legendary off the TP, there's a lot of organization you need to do in order to buy 150 LI. So I don't think many would do that. Buy an occasional boss or achievement when they lose patience, yes. Even a whole collection. But the LI? I don't think so.

 

As soon as you have enough LI and kill proofs, it makes more sense to just join pugs for easy bosses to get the LI. No need to pay for it at that point.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> Anyone but me notice that there is always the suggestion to just buy a raid, from the raid proponents. Seems pretty clear why they want things the way they are. But I can't blame people for wanting to make money at the expense of other players, but I can blame Anet for fostering that kind of environment.

 

Please point me **one** my post where I've told another person "go buy the raid". Spreading misinformation and rumors much?

 

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > Unlike buying a legendary off the TP, there's a lot of organization you need to do in order to buy 150 LI. So I don't think many would do that. Buy an occasional boss or achievement when they lose patience, yes. Even a whole collection. But the LI? I don't think so.

>

> As soon as you have enough LI and kill proofs, it makes more sense to just join pugs for easy bosses to get the LI. No need to pay for it at that point.

 

That's my point. The vast majority of the people who get the armor will do some actual raiding. Quite a bit of it, actually.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > Anyone but me notice that there is always the suggestion to just buy a raid, from the raid proponents. Seems pretty clear why they want things the way they are. But I can't blame people for wanting to make money at the expense of other players, but I can blame Anet for fostering that kind of environment.

>

> Please point me **one** my post where I've told another person "go buy the raid". Spreading misinformation and rumors much?

 

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> Buy an occasional boss or achievement when they lose patience, yes. Even a whole collection.

 

Wasn't that hard to see you suggestion that buying a raid was a viable answer for _some players_

 

Edit Added: But just so we are clear, I am cool with that, if I had 7 other people that I ran with to do raids, and I'd be selling them too, nothing wrong with wanting to make some money off what the game has, so no hard feelings towards you, personally. But, I stand by the fact that it was a bad move on Anet part to put raids in and foster that kind of environment. You are yours are just doing what gamers do, it's Anet that opted to keep things the way they are.

 

TLDR: _I Don't blame the Player.. I am blaming the Game_

[Feanor.2358]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > Anyone but me notice that there is always the suggestion to just buy a raid, from the raid proponents. Seems pretty clear why they want things the way they are. But I can't blame people for wanting to make money at the expense of other players, but I can blame Anet for fostering that kind of environment.

> >

> > Please point me **one** my post where I've told another person "go buy the raid". Spreading misinformation and rumors much?

>

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > Buy an occasional boss or achievement when they lose patience, yes. Even a whole collection.

>

> Wasn't that hard to see you suggestion that buying a raid was a viable answer for _some players_

 

That's merely stating a fact. Furthermore, ANet themselves stated they're OK with the practice. So what do you expect me to do? Denying the reality won't make it any less real.

 

Edit: Just to be clear, again. I'm stating a fact. I'm not suggesting it.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > Anyone but me notice that there is always the suggestion to just buy a raid, from the raid proponents. Seems pretty clear why they want things the way they are. But I can't blame people for wanting to make money at the expense of other players, but I can blame Anet for fostering that kind of environment.

> > >

> > > Please point me **one** my post where I've told another person "go buy the raid". Spreading misinformation and rumors much?

> >

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > Buy an occasional boss or achievement when they lose patience, yes. Even a whole collection.

> >

> > Wasn't that hard to see you suggestion that buying a raid was a viable answer for _some players_

>

> That's merely stating a fact. Furthermore, ANet themselves stated they're OK with the practice. So what do you expect me to do? Denying the reality won't make it any less real.

>

> Edit: Just to be clear, again. I'm stating a fact. I'm not suggesting it.

 

Yah.. Anet condones Raid selling, so.. again.. I stand by what I said, this is what Anet wants. These are the players and the environment that Anet wants in their game. Glad that was agree.

[Zappix.7928]

> Yah.. Anet condones Raid selling, so.. again.. I stand by what I said, this is what Anet wants. These are the players and the environment that Anet wants in their game. Glad that was agree.

 

Well then my idea I suggested earlier should be considered by Anet and then implemented, make raids soloable, reduce difficulty and rewards (like what they did in the story at the end of core game) and allow us introverted, quiet, lonely (but happy being lonely) players enjoy not only the way to obtain LI's but the story cinematics in the dungeons and raids. Less shiny trinkets in the Gemstore and more solo goodies!

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Zappix.7928" said:

> > Yah.. Anet condones Raid selling, so.. again.. I stand by what I said, this is what Anet wants. These are the players and the environment that Anet wants in their game. Glad that was agree.

>

> Well then my idea I suggested earlier should be considered by Anet and then implemented, make raids soloable, reduce difficulty and rewards (like what they did in the story at the end of core game) and allow us introverted, quiet, lonely (but happy being lonely) players enjoy not only the way to obtain LI's but the story cinematics in the dungeons and raids. Less shiny trinkets in the Gemstore and more solo goodies!

 

If that is what Anet wanted to make a solo edition of their Raids, they would have done it, since they have not, then it's not what they want to do. Keep in mind they condone selling Raids, and other group based content.

[Linken.6345]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > Anyone but me notice that there is always the suggestion to just buy a raid, from the raid proponents. Seems pretty clear why they want things the way they are. But I can't blame people for wanting to make money at the expense of other players, but I can blame Anet for fostering that kind of environment.

> >

> > Please point me **one** my post where I've told another person "go buy the raid". Spreading misinformation and rumors much?

>

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > Buy an occasional boss or achievement when they lose patience, yes. Even a whole collection.

>

> Wasn't that hard to see you suggestion that buying a raid was a viable answer for _some players_

>

> Edit Added: But just so we are clear, I am cool with that, if I had 7 other people that I ran with to do raids, and I'd be selling them too, nothing wrong with wanting to make some money off what the game has, so no hard feelings towards you, personally. But, I stand by the fact that it was a bad move on Anet part to put raids in and foster that kind of environment. You are yours are just doing what gamers do, it's Anet that opted to keep things the way they are.

>

> TLDR: _I Don't blame the Player.. I am blaming the Game_

 

Well to be fair people sold dungeon paths way before raids were even thought up to be implemented in this game.

So not like you can blame raids for fostering that kind of enviroment bud.

[Stormscar.5489]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > > @"Stormscar.5489" said:

> > > > It's so sad watching these kinds of discussion from players who are not interested in playing a GAME, but farmville or some of those other games were you basically afk and are rewarded. What happened with rewards being given out for skillful play, for getting better at the game and overcoming a difficult part of the content? For years we had legendaries, the supposed endgame goal, given out to anyone who afk farmed and barely ever had to do anything but 11111 in open world. When players who were interested in playing a GAME left seeing there was no challenge, most of the remaining playerbase were players used to getting handed stuff without actually having to understand GW2 at all.

> > > >

> > > > So the outrage isn't surprising when just a part of the new rewards started being tied to challenging content (Raids), those people cried that the game is becoming 'elitist'. And for people who say that GW2 shouldn't have raids, I'll remind you that GW1 had plenty of endgame PvE that required more than facerolling your keyboard (Vanquishing areas to a degree, and obviously areas such as UW/DoA/FoW, with their associated meta builds and comps). Saying raids aren't challenging is a total lie, unless you're maybe comparing to the difficulty of raids in other games, on which I don't have any recent experiences I can compare with so I don't know. But compared to what PvE was for years (open world/dungeons/non-CM fractals), they totally are.

> > > >

> > > > And I do support rewards to WvW/PvP as well that are tied behind them. The issue with those game modes is that they reveal less about the skill than the raid legendary armor, because it is much more likely you afk pip farm or you just grind enough PvP games at a low elo (buying 150LI or doing 2-3 bosses per week is much less likely to happen, but admit it can happen).

> > > >

> > > > In my opinion, the game needs more exclusive rewards tied to content where you need to learn and improve rather than a measure of how much you play/grind. And for people who use the excuse they don't have time to organise for a raid or can't find enough people to raid with, these are just excuses. And I'd like to remind you this is a MMO, you should have to play and coordinate with other players to beat content. Go play a single player game if you don't like it. And for the 10 man vs 5 man thing, it is a good design choice because you can introduce a wider variety of mechanics in a single fight when you can have 10 people available to do various tasks rather than 5.

> > > >

> > > > I think Anet catering to a casual player base unfortunately ruined what GW2 could have been. And by casual I don't mean someone who doesn't play too much, but someone who REFUSES to want to put any thought when playing this game. A game with GW2's combat system and lack of vertical progression but coupled with WoW's pve content and release cadence would have been awesome.

> > >

> > > You honestly think that PvP and WvW ( player vs player systems) are EASIER than an artificial UI (raids) which is created and designed to lose? Mate, seriously? If anything, buying raid kills with money is muuuuch easier now (just look in the raid lfg at how many people sell kills). Cant see how you would pay people to let you be top pvp or wvw... Rewards. Thats the point. Dont care about your exclusive raid skin, i want decent rewards for the game mode i support.

> >

> > Mate, don't take the wrong way, but you're vastly underestimating the skills needed to raid. They are different than what's needed in pvp modes, but that doesn't make them any less of a skill. When a PvEer sets foot in a WvW for the first time, he'd be a total noob. It will be the same for a vet WvW players trying to raid for the first time.

>

> Never said raids are easy. On the contrary. It just feels like they overreward, sometimes. And other game modes underreward. That is all.

 

I don't think they overreward, just that the other competitive modes underreward as you said. There's something wrong when the best rewards/gold are made by 11111111ing in an open world zerg.

[Ayrilana.1396]

If they do add another method for PvE, it should not be obtainable in open world PvE or any existing instanced content for that matter (e.g. dungeons and fractals).

 

What they could do is created an instanced content that players can only do solo which is akin to raids. It would test their ability to play the game through mechanics and strategies. DPS would be important as well as being able to mitigate incoming damage. The vMA in ESO is an example of what I’m thinking of.

[sorudo.9054]

i personally don't care about the stats that much since i play open worlds pretty much all the time, i just want more skins then the ones that current drop or can be crafted.