More “paths” to legendary gear...

[Ashen.2907]

Its not an unreasonable expectation that the top tier rewards would be earned by completing the most difficult content.

 

The basic idea that the best rewards go to those who work or play the hardest, who apply themselves the most, who possess the greatest talent, is pretty commonplace in our culture...even not truly universally applied.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > > > You tell any player that the months and weeks it took them to achieve something is only a “generic effort”, because it didn’t involve the “real effort raid”, and I doubt that will go over well.

> > >

> > > I told nothing of the sort.

> > Oh, really?

> >

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > Yup, I cannot measure any of that. But I can say for certain that making it accessible will eradicate all of its meaning, because it's all about the effort. Not just some generic effort, the raiding effort. Otherwise it's pointless. And that's exactly what the people have been asking about for months - "otherwise".

> >

> > Here you have straight out said that you consider any form of effort except for raid effort to be pointless

>

> In the context of obtaining the raid armor, obviously. That's what this reward was created for, so yeah, that's what matters. Just like wvw effort is what matters for sublime mistforged.

 

Ok but we are not talking about "Raid" armor, we are talking about Legendary Armor.

 

See if there was "Raid" armor, like there is a Dungeon Armor, then you would be 100% correct that, it should be limited to Raids (albeit, Dungeon armor is not limited to just Dungeons anymore).

 

But we are talking about "Legendary Armor" and since there is no legitimate reason to make this exclusive to Raids, it should have other paths involved in obtaining it.

 

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> Its not an unreasonable expectation that the top tier rewards would be earned by completing the most difficult content.

>

> The basic idea that the best rewards go to those who work or play the hardest, who apply themselves the most, who possess the greatest talent, is pretty commonplace in our culture...even not truly universally applied.

 

I made a point a while back that JP's were harder then Raids, because I could not buy a carry though to the Mad King Clock Tower, or the Wintersday Jump Puzzle, I had to earn both those myself.

 

As such, Instance based Jump Puzzles are the most challenging content in the game.. and thus should give the best rewards.

 

"Prove me wrong"

[Ashen.2907]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

because I could not buy a carry though to the Mad King Clock Tower, or the Wintersday Jump Puzzle, I had to earn both those myself.

>

Chose not to do so and could not do so are not the same thing.

 

There is no content in the game that one could not pay others for completion.

 

That said...I hate those jumping puzzles and have never been able to complete them. Special, unique rewards for something of that sort seems like a good idea to me, even if I would never get them.

[Sigz.6943]

I don't really care if sparkles are flying out of my bum ,or not. I just like the qol that legendary items give. Hell if they gave ascended gear stat/rune swapping I would never try for any legendary. Since unlike some of you I actually like to have fun in my games ,and not be spending them doing repetitive menial tasks. After all it is a form of entertainment to be enjoyed ,but if your spending the better part of six months grinding for a set of armor/a weapon then that's on you don't drag the rest of us down with you.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> because I could not buy a carry though to the Mad King Clock Tower, or the Wintersday Jump Puzzle, I had to earn both those myself.

> >

> Chose not to do so and could not do so are not the same thing.

>

> There is no content in the game that one could not pay others for completion.

>

> That said...I hate those jumping puzzles and have never been able to complete them. Special, unique rewards for something of that sort seems like a good idea to me, even if I would never get them.

 

Umm AFIK, There is absolutely no **LEGIT** way to pay someone to complete the Clock Tower for you. It's in a PvP instance, so there is no way any player can help another player in those instances, at all, in any manner. Anet designed them that way just to prevent people from being able to buy a completion. As far as I know, The only way to have someone else complete the content for you, Anet condemns as it violates the TOS and EULA, unlike buying raids for example, which Anet openly supports and condones.

 

Just saying.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

I just want a method of getting Legendary Armor that doesn't make me want to pull my hair out.

[Alehin.3746]

> @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

>

> > But it alienates players across game modes. Encouraging them to mix and socialize together isn't a bad thing.

> Ask any pver who has had to grind wvw if they agree with you.

>

 

I agree with @"Feanor.2358", it was pretty fun. Y'all are just lazy/spoiled. kek

[Linken.6345]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > because I could not buy a carry though to the Mad King Clock Tower, or the Wintersday Jump Puzzle, I had to earn both those myself.

> > >

> > Chose not to do so and could not do so are not the same thing.

> >

> > There is no content in the game that one could not pay others for completion.

> >

> > That said...I hate those jumping puzzles and have never been able to complete them. Special, unique rewards for something of that sort seems like a good idea to me, even if I would never get them.

>

> Umm AFIK, There is absolutely no **LEGIT** way to pay someone to complete the Clock Tower for you. It's in a PvP instance, so there is no way any player can help another player in those instances, at all, in any manner. Anet designed them that way just to prevent people from being able to buy a completion. As far as I know, The only way to have someone else complete the content for you, Anet condemns as it violates the TOS and EULA, unlike buying raids for example, which Anet openly supports and condones.

>

> Just saying.

 

ofcourse there are you can pay someone to come home to your house and do it.

[Celsith.2753]

> @"Alehin.3746" said:

> > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> >

> > > But it alienates players across game modes. Encouraging them to mix and socialize together isn't a bad thing.

> > Ask any pver who has had to grind wvw if they agree with you.

> >

>

> I agree with @"Feanor.2358", it was pretty fun. Y'all are just lazy/spoiled. kek

 

Whose lazy? I have 27k ap so I obviously pve. And about to hit 750k wvw kills so I obviously do that too.... Doesn't alter that chat is constantly punctuated with pvers complaining that they don't want to be there. There are always a few that enjoy it and stay of course but that doesnt mean its the majority. It would be nice if it was.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > because I could not buy a carry though to the Mad King Clock Tower, or the Wintersday Jump Puzzle, I had to earn both those myself.

> > > >

> > > Chose not to do so and could not do so are not the same thing.

> > >

> > > There is no content in the game that one could not pay others for completion.

> > >

> > > That said...I hate those jumping puzzles and have never been able to complete them. Special, unique rewards for something of that sort seems like a good idea to me, even if I would never get them.

> >

> > Umm AFIK, There is absolutely no **LEGIT** way to pay someone to complete the Clock Tower for you. It's in a PvP instance, so there is no way any player can help another player in those instances, at all, in any manner. Anet designed them that way just to prevent people from being able to buy a completion. As far as I know, The only way to have someone else complete the content for you, Anet condemns as it violates the TOS and EULA, unlike buying raids for example, which Anet openly supports and condones.

> >

> > Just saying.

>

> ofcourse there are you can pay someone to come home to your house and do it.

 

Sure you _could_, do that, but that is still someone else accessing your account, which is against the TOS and EULA,(and thus against Anet Policy) just FYI , so, I stand by what I said, there is no _Legit_ Way, to buy a completion.

[Alehin.3746]

> @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > @"Alehin.3746" said:

> > > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > >

> > > > But it alienates players across game modes. Encouraging them to mix and socialize together isn't a bad thing.

> > > Ask any pver who has had to grind wvw if they agree with you.

> > >

> >

> > I agree with @"Feanor.2358", it was pretty fun. Y'all are just lazy/spoiled. kek

>

> Whose lazy? I have 27k ap so I obviously pve. And about to hit 750k wvw kills so I obviously do that too.... Doesn't alter that chat is constantly punctuated with pvers complaining that they don't want to be there. There are always a few that enjoy it and stay of course but that doesnt mean its the majority. It would be nice if it was.

 

If you don't want to be there, don't go there. Thats completely fine. I just don't see the point of rewarding people for not playing the gamemode.

>w-well but it would still need to be crafted

I don't mind if anet give Istan farmers a legendary set. I just don't want to play pvp/wvw/raids and share the same rewards with people that farm Istan for hours straight and call that content. This game is too easy already and i don't want spoiled players to ruin the little bitch of challenge we have because they are too lazy to do anything that requires more than looting chests. Is that too much to ask?

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Alehin.3746" said:

> I don't mind if anet give Istan farmers a legendary set. I just don't want to play pvp/wvw/raids and share the same rewards with people that farm Istan for hours straight and call that content. This game is too easy already and i don't want spoiled players to ruin the little kitten of challenge we have because they are too lazy to do anything that requires more than looting chests. Is that too much to ask?

 

How does someone else doing boring farming change the challenge you have in this game? I mean really, if everyone you normally run raids with would suddenly stop running raids if this other content provided Legendary Armor, then none of them enjoyed or even liked doing raids to start with. If they enjoyed raids and the challenge, they would still do them, even if there were other more simple yet tedious paths to the same loot.

 

Allow that to simmer for a while.

 

Personally, this is a pointless discussion, as we all know Anet won't do anything. But, just a thought to ponder.

[Alehin.3746]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Alehin.3746" said:

> > I don't mind if anet give Istan farmers a legendary set. I just don't want to play pvp/wvw/raids and share the same rewards with people that farm Istan for hours straight and call that content. This game is too easy already and i don't want spoiled players to ruin the little kitten of challenge we have because they are too lazy to do anything that requires more than looting chests. Is that too much to ask?

>

> How does someone else doing boring farming change the challenge you have in this game? I mean really, if everyone you normally run raids with would suddenly stop running raids if this other content provided Legendary Armor, then none of them enjoyed or even liked doing raids to start with. If they enjoyed raids and the challenge, they would still do them, even if there were other more simple yet tedious paths to the same loot.

>

> Allow that to simmer for a while.

>

> Personally, this is a pointless discussion, as we all know Anet won't do anything. But, just a thought to ponder.

 

I'm not really sure how to explain in this in english, but it's some kind of "pride". I don't mind if everyone in the game have the same stuff armor as me, as long as they beat the same challenges as i did. It's like a "token". I'm not better than anyone else, i just don't want to reward lazy, spoiled players. I like when i get new but interested people in my raid groups, i don't even ask for LI and KP nor benchmark dps from them. If people raid just for the items and have a bad time, maybe they should stop being so "consumerist" with all the "hurr durr my shinniez Xddd" and find a hobbie that they actually enjoy.

 

I don't care if people feel bad because they don't want to put effort into something but still want to be rewarded. I care about people that want to play raids but doesn't because of the toxicity/elitism.

 

Let's follow this "logic" for a second: can i have free legendary items then? I would like to keep my money, farming Istan is too hard/boring for me. It's just a mindless grind. The comunity is too toxic, they yell at me when i attack Amala. I just want to relax in Lions Arch because i work a lot in real life already.

 

Do you understand my point of view now?

[Despond.2174]

What's the problem exactly?

Legendary armor only costs around 250-300g per piece and the main input in acquiring them is a time-gate - eg pvp tickets. I don't understand much easier do you want it? The only legendary you can "buy" are gen1, and even those are cheap to make these days with the plummeting T6 prices. Making a gen 1 is just farming gold, the only time gate is map completion--which can be done so fast with mounts now--, 500 dungeon tokens--can be done in a few days or less and gift of battle--can be done nearly instantly with potion, a few days of farming or casually 1-2weeks. The rest is simply just mats you've acquired or buy from TP.

 

You save 800-1k gold buy just doing gift of battle, gift of exploration, and doing some dungeons. So this whole "CC and buy one" is flimsy. Yeah sure, if you don't want to spend a few weeks then go ahead, but it's still easy to make one yourself, 10x smoother than it used to be. Gen 1 prices are so low because everything is so cheap because of how Istan has given people so much more gold and easier T6 mats. Gen2+ require achievements and other time gates you can't buy so that's all normal as well.

 

So I am still confused how much easier do you really want it to be? You can have full legendary armor just doing your pvp seasons for the year. When you have a near horizontal gear system there has to be SOME effort required. There are plenty of paths to gain legendary armor/weapons, just play the game normally and it will come to you.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Alehin.3746" said:

> If you don't want to be there, don't go there. Thats completely fine. I just don't see the point of rewarding people for not playing the gamemode.

And i don't see a point in rewarding people for playing the content they dislike. There's no gain in it whatsoever.

 

> @"Alehin.3746" said:

> Let's follow this "logic" for a second: can i have free legendary items then? I would like to keep my money, farming Istan is too hard/boring for me. It's just a mindless grind. The comunity is too toxic, they yell at me when i attack Amala. I just want to relax in Lions Arch because i work a lot in real life already.

>

> Do you understand my point of view now?

No. A strawman is a strawman. Nobody asks for the alternate paths to require no effort. People just ask for them to require different kinds of effort.

 

> @"Despond.2174" said:

> So I am still confused how much easier do you really want it to be? You can have full legendary armor just doing your pvp seasons for the year. When you have a near horizontal gear system there has to be SOME effort required. There are plenty of paths to gain legendary armor/weapons.

But the only PvE one is in a niche content most PvE players don't play. In fact, all the paths _together_ are from the content most players don't play (PvE being the biggest, by far, of all the 3 game modes).

 

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"Alehin.3746" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Alehin.3746" said:

> > > I don't mind if anet give Istan farmers a legendary set. I just don't want to play pvp/wvw/raids and share the same rewards with people that farm Istan for hours straight and call that content. This game is too easy already and i don't want spoiled players to ruin the little kitten of challenge we have because they are too lazy to do anything that requires more than looting chests. Is that too much to ask?

> >

> > How does someone else doing boring farming change the challenge you have in this game? I mean really, if everyone you normally run raids with would suddenly stop running raids if this other content provided Legendary Armor, then none of them enjoyed or even liked doing raids to start with. If they enjoyed raids and the challenge, they would still do them, even if there were other more simple yet tedious paths to the same loot.

> >

> > Allow that to simmer for a while.

> >

> > Personally, this is a pointless discussion, as we all know Anet won't do anything. But, just a thought to ponder.

>

> I'm not really sure how to explain in this in english, but it's some kind of "pride". I don't mind if everyone in the game have the same stuff armor as me, as long as they beat the same challenges as i did. It's like a "token". I'm not better than anyone else, i just don't want to reward lazy, spoiled players. I like when i get new but interested people in my raid groups, i don't even ask for LI and KP nor benchmark dps from them. If people raid just for the items and have a bad time, maybe they should stop being so "consumerist" with all the "hurr durr my shinniez Xddd" and find a hobbie that they actually enjoy.

>

> I don't care if people feel bad because they don't want to put effort into something but still want to be rewarded. I care about people that want to play raids but doesn't because of the toxicity/elitism.

>

> Let's follow this "logic" for a second: can i have free legendary items then? I would like to keep my money, farming Istan is too hard/boring for me. It's just a mindless grind. The comunity is too toxic, they yell at me when i attack Amala. I just want to relax in Lions Arch because i work a lot in real life already.

>

> Do you understand my point of view now?

 

Some kind of... Pride? Mate, you can buy raid kills, hence LI. LFG has those in abundance, ANET endorses raid selling. Lets say i bought 120 LI that way. We have the same "pride"? Also, you can buy all legendaries except for the first gen 2 ones, which require events and have a journey. The rest are just materials or can be bought straight off from the TP. Sure, you can have the same "pride" for farming for your leggy, with someone who converted money to gems, gems to gold and straight off bought it off the tp... That being said, 3 ways of getting legendary armor are enough, to me at least...

[Feanor.2358]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> But we are talking about "Legendary Armor" and since there is no legitimate reason to make this exclusive to Raids, it should have other paths involved in obtaining it.

 

There already are.

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > But we are talking about "Legendary Armor" and since there is no legitimate reason to make this exclusive to Raids, it should have other paths involved in obtaining it.

>

> There already are.

 

Oh come on, you know exactly what STIHL meant, that there should be more PvE paths to obtain legendary armor. And now you would reply "yes, but raids are PvE, and PvE/WvW/PvP are the three game modes of this game and every game mode has a path, so everything is fine" and I would reply "PvE is not only raids, in fact, raids are for a minority of the PvE players, and PvP/WvW doesn't require you to do special content in these game modes that is different from general WvW/PvP to get legendary armor, and therefore, your argument doesn't work", and then you would ignore facts and keep arguing in circles, because that's what you keep doing here, and I'm not sure if you are genuine or trolling us.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > But we are talking about "Legendary Armor" and since there is no legitimate reason to make this exclusive to Raids, it should have other paths involved in obtaining it.

> >

> > There already are.

>

> Oh come on, you know exactly what STIHL meant, that there should be more PvE paths to obtain legendary armor. And now you would reply "yes, but raids are PvE, and PvE/WvW/PvP are the three game modes of this game and every game mode has a path, so everything is fine" and I would reply "PvE is not only raids, in fact, raids are for a minority of the PvE players, and PvP/WvW doesn't require you to do special content in these game modes that is different from general WvW/PvP to get legendary armor, and therefore, your argument doesn't work", and then you would ignore facts and keep arguing in circles, because that's what you keep doing here, and I'm not sure if you are genuine or trolling us.

 

So? Every single legendary piece in the game is for a minority of the players. And they are all locked behind specific parts of the game. The only PvE backpiece is locked behind fractals. Aurora is locked behind LS3. Weapons are locked behind a combination of open world, dungeons and WvW. What's the problem? "I'm ok with the others but I don't like this specific lock" isn't a valid reason, sorry.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > But we are talking about "Legendary Armor" and since there is no legitimate reason to make this exclusive to Raids, it should have other paths involved in obtaining it.

> > >

> > > There already are.

> >

> > Oh come on, you know exactly what STIHL meant, that there should be more PvE paths to obtain legendary armor. And now you would reply "yes, but raids are PvE, and PvE/WvW/PvP are the three game modes of this game and every game mode has a path, so everything is fine" and I would reply "PvE is not only raids, in fact, raids are for a minority of the PvE players, and PvP/WvW doesn't require you to do special content in these game modes that is different from general WvW/PvP to get legendary armor, and therefore, your argument doesn't work", and then you would ignore facts and keep arguing in circles, because that's what you keep doing here, and I'm not sure if you are genuine or trolling us.

>

> So? Every single legendary piece in the game is for a minority of the players. And they are all locked behind specific parts of the game. The only PvE backpiece is locked behind fractals. Aurora is locked behind LS3. Weapons are locked behind a combination of open world, dungeons and WvW. What's the problem? "I'm ok with the others but I don't like this specific lock" isn't a valid reason, sorry.

 

Well I am going to start this off by saying, I was not "Ok" with the Fractal Back Piece to start with, and still a bit miffed that there is not other PvE paths for Legendary Back Items. The fact that it did not build a massive outcry is not the same as people accepting this, I think that others, like myself, were just hoping that other choices would open up as time went on, and the fractal back item was going to be the _First of Many_, which was how I originally looked at it, so I kept quiet in hopes that maybe they would do right by their players and put in other paths, other back items, etc.

 

Well, as we can see, they have not, so that was a wake up call for a lot of players (myself included) and they (like me)caught the clue that they needed to speak up, which is why we have the current issue with Legendary Armor, and players speaking out about it.

 

It was Never "OK" that Fractals where the only PvE path to a legendary back item.. _Never._

 

Just like now.. it is **NOT** "OK" that raids are the only PvE path to Legendary Armor.

 

Just wanted to clear that up, in case anyone has some delusional rose colored view about the Fractal Lock of Legendary Back items.

[Feanor.2358]

That's just your perception, and it is biased. It's perfectly OK. Unique rewards for unique game modes. Nothing new. Works everywhere, across thousands of games.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

>

> Oh come on, you know exactly what STIHL meant, that there should be more PvE paths to obtain legendary armor. And now you would reply "yes, but raids are PvE, and PvE/WvW/PvP are the three game modes of this game and every game mode has a path, so everything is fine" and I would reply "PvE is not only raids, in fact, raids are for a minority of the PvE players, and PvP/WvW doesn't require you to do special content in these game modes that is different from general WvW/PvP to get legendary armor, and therefore, your argument doesn't work", and then you would ignore facts and keep arguing in circles, because that's what you keep doing here, and I'm not sure if you are genuine or trolling us.

 

You know, Legendary Armor, is a HoT only item, I would like to see a Core, and PoF version put out.. and while we are talking about it, I would like to see a Legendary Back item put into HoT, and PoF.

 

 

[Edelweiss.4261]

It seems to me that the parties opposed to more paths are arguing in bad faith. I don't think trying to reason with them will get us anywhere.

 

Edit: I should explain what I mean. Many of the arguments I see are things like "but pve already has a path" when open world is to pve what wvw is to pvp. This answer is never addressed, but the criticism is still used. Effectively, they make arguments while ignoring counter arguments. This remains true of most of the points they make. If they aren't even listening, you can't reason with them.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> That's just your perception, and it is biased. It's perfectly OK. Unique rewards for unique game modes. Nothing new. Works everywhere, across thousands of games.

 

If it was just a cosmetic, like Dungeon Armor, we would agree.

 

But it's not, so we Disagree.

 

with that said, GW2 goal was to break the mold, so players that want this can go play any of those other "thousands of game", this game, GW2 was directly marketed as NOT being like the others.

 

If you wanted to play a toned down WoW clone, you never should have come here.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > That's just your perception, and it is biased. It's perfectly OK. Unique rewards for unique game modes. Nothing new. Works everywhere, across thousands of games.

>

> If it was just a cosmetic, like Dungeon Armor, we would agree.

>

> But it's not, so we Disagree.

>

> with that said, GW2 goal was to break the mold, so players that want this can go play any of those other "thousands of game", this game, GW2 was directly marketed as NOT being like the others.

>

> If you wanted to play a toned down WoW clone, you never should have come here.

 

Ah, the overrated "function" again. That's why wvw and pvp armors were introduced, no? What exactly do you want, a legendary in every heart vendor?

 

P.S. The functionality is so minor that's it's basically in the same category as the cosmetics. Actually the copper-fed is more of a QoL than the stat-swapping.