HoT maps vs PoF maps

[TheGrimm.5624]

> @"Autolukos.1359" said:

> > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > I'm perfectly fine with the HoT-maps. Finally some change from all these boring "flat" maps of Core Tyria and other games. I know some people hate those maps, but I'd like to have more complex maps in which you can get lost.

>

> I agree. The problem I have with them mostly, is that I cant explore them alone, due to enemy packs of millions.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like HoT maps and they are can be challenging and frustrating since the tightness creates a lot of aggro. That said if you are new to both HoT and PoF and have both, go get your Raptor from PoF and it makes HoT a lot easier, even better is the Springer as well. Then you at least have an added layer to get a second to breathe since the mobs will have to dismount you first giving you a sec to get out of the way. And trust me there are a lot of ways to travel about HoT maps and PoF mounts add even more. I am still finding new shortcuts in the maps. Also if you are new to HoT maps, keep an eye out in LFG for HP trains moving thru those maps, might be a good way to get more unlocks and mini-tours thru the HoT maps.

[Ashen.2907]

I enjoy the fights in both maps, but dislike navigating HoT.

[Autolukos.1359]

Thank you very much for your inputs, guys :)

 

I just finished everything(poi, masteries, HP, strongboxes, vistas, WP,etc) both in Tangled Depths and Dragon Stand. Except the one that opens after the successful competion of the meta event in Tangled Depths :anguished:

 

It was a fun exploration, I really loved it, despite my explosions of anger ;)

Cant wait to repeat them, with full masteries, with my mesmer, someday!!

[Enoah.1956]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"Enoah.1956" said:

> > Smokescales are glued to you when they do that smoke assault attack of theirs. And killing them is almost as troublesome as the ever-evading griffons.

>

> PSA:

> Smokescales drop a red circle, the purpose of which is not to harm you but to protect them. While inside the circle, they will evade all attacks. Simply drag them out and you can hit them again. Before they drop the circle, however, they'll use their teleport attack. It's the first thing they do. Anticipate it and as soon as they teleport to you, dodge or stun them to prevent the damage. Smokescales also have pathetically low health (we're talking below 10k for the normal ones), so if you're using a glass build you can really just skip all the maneuvering and kill them before they can attack.

I know how to handle smokescales. I was referring to the statement that you couldn't get away from PoF hydras. You can as far as I have seen and felt, at least when they aren't spawning in abnormally large numbers. They drop that fire bomb nuke on you the second you aggro them, which can be dodged. If I'm on my raptor I can get away from them quick enough. Without Canyon Jumping mastery I think. Not so sure about smokescales. They kill your mount real quick when they do that teleport attack. Along the lines you may aggro a bunch of others. At least that's what sometimes happen when I do my Jungle Plants farm run along the inner circle of the ledges in Draconis Mons where they are pretty thick. That path below the Temple of Kormir in Crystal Oasis can be kinda painful in a similar way. There it isn't the Hydra itself that is the troublesome but the sheer density they are spawning with there. But they were obviously put there for a reason, because there are tons of harvesting nodes there.

 

 

[Shirlias.8104]

Gw2 has no features such castbars and so on, that's why you have to manage enemies animations.

 

At first, not knowing the new enemies skills, you could get downed or simply be slower in order to take them down, but that's pretty Normal.

 

But once you understand enemies and you are capable with your class, there won't be problems at all.

 

Many players force themselves into tanky builds, refusing to learn how to play their class with a pure dps equip ( which means to be able to avoid death with no defensive stats and maybe skills ), and because of that they could find hard to deal with some enemies.

 

But we could simply look at gw2 during from the past till the present.

 

* people complaining about too strong champions

* people complaining about too hard story bosses or achievements

* people complaining about pof veteran hp

* people complaining about jps difficulty

* people unable to deal with meta events until they get semplified ( still now a pug could manage to fail TT )

 

And so on.

 

The problem is the player which was not good since the beginning, and because of the possibilities offered by the game ( tanky builds, leaching events rewards, buying runs, etc... ) they didn't put any effort at all, because it was easier not to learn.

 

And now probably many of them are paying the price of this ( unable to raid, to master full dps builds, to cooperate, to use combo Fields properly as for skills rotations, unable to high lvl fractals, etc... ) and still pretend an easier game instead of put some effort into the way they play.

 

But you know what?

I am really amused and I personally do enjoy everytime ANET decides to put ''hard''( which is btw not really hard, let's be honests ) content.

[MarshallLaw.9260]

> @"Lord Kreegan.8123" said:

> I hate HoT and I'm not too fond of PoF. They are both a complete departure from the original game concept, level designs obviously created by 12-year old kiddies who think impossible combat is fun; you can't do much without a zerg in HoT and multiple other players in PoF.

 

HoT was designed as more challenging content for max level characters, it goes without saying that it **should** be more difficult than the original core Tyria maps. I agree that it takes some practice to learn how to get around, some of the HPs require at least 2 people to tackle and maps like TD can be very tough to navigate on your own. However - you probably need to appreciate that players **wanted** harder content. It's arguably not fantastic for brand new players who bought HoT, used the max-level boost and jumped straight into it with no experience - but for more established accounts, this was a great new challenge requiring more skill and group co-ordination.

 

PoF was a slightly different approach and it clearly shows that ANet paid attention to feedback since the are are fewer maze-like maps.

Both expansions are more difficult than vanilla gameplay - but many people enjoy the thrill of actually having to fight to survive rather than AA everything and tank all damage with no skill.

 

Saying you hate HoT and not too fond of PoF? - I would suggest not to play the content if it's not something you enjoy. Stick to core maps - there is plenty to do there and it's not so hard.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Lord Kreegan.8123" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > @"Lord Kreegan.8123" said:

> > > > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > > > @"Lord Kreegan.8123" said:

> > > > > I hate HoT and I'm not too fond of PoF. They are both a complete departure from the original game concept, level designs obviously created by 12-year old kiddies who think impossible combat is fun; you can't do much without a zerg in HoT and multiple other players in PoF.

> > > > > Individual PoF mobs are overpowered and you'll usually find multiple veterans overlapping agro-ranges, and they'll chase you halfway across the map. There aren't very many waypoints, but you'll quickly notice that there are armor repair anvils next to them; there's a reason for that: You're going to die a lot in PoF.

> > > > > You'll die a lot in HoT, too, but more often from going over a cliff as you search for hero points or mastery points without a landing spot in sight, hoping you can glide somewhere safe. Jumping and gliding to your death passes for exploration in HoT. The zones are a vertical maze with almost no useful hints from the two-dimensional mini-map. The hero points and mastery points where you don't have to do the glide-to-death routine pretty much require a zerg to get them. There aren't a lot of waypoints in the HoT maps, either.

> > > > > I highly recommend going into both the first time (presuming you're going to run alts through those ones, too) via the story; that will get you some waypoints and mastery points with a reasonable level of mob opposition.

> > > >

> > > > What impossible combat? I get around HoT pretty well alone; beside meta-events, you really don't need some fancy Zergfest to get stuff done. Some hero points (Champion-monsters) are perfectly soloable, some require the help of some people, which is perfectly fine in a M**Multiplayer**ORPG. I really don't get the problem. It really helps getting some appropriate gear and working somewhat on your build. That's probably the real problem you have.

> > > >

> > > > > @"Mea.5491" said:

> > > > > **HoT maps offer better group content, exactly what an MMO should do.** PoF maps feel like a single player game. So yeah, the latter is easier but also more boring.

> > > >

> > > > You, dear sir/madam, should be awarded with a prize. Couldn't sum it up better.

> > >

> > > Look, Ma, another White Knight presuming that nobody else has gear or a good build! Sigh unseen, the White Knight knows what's wrong with everyone!

> > > It never fails...

> >

> > I don't fault anyone for not liking HoT. I don't care for the maps myself. But you did falsely imply that the combats were impossible. Correcting misinformation is not white knighting, its just setting the record straight.

>

> There were no falsehoods and you weren't setting the record straight. You were letting your ego out of its cage and arrogantly implying that everyone else was stupid, incompetent, incapable, etc., etc. ... typical white-knighting.

> To quote you, "_That's probably the real problem you have._"

 

You referred to the combats as impossible. They are not impossible. If they were impossible then no one would be able to complete them, and yet people have done so.

 

I never commented about anyone else's level of intelligence, competency, or capability. I also did not say what you claim to be quoting me about. Both of those claims on your part are additional falsehoods.

[DarcShriek.5829]

A lot of the problem with difficult content is that the core maps don't do a very good job of educating the player about what is to come later. My biggest pet peeve is a total lack of break bar training which was introduced with HoT. If the core maps trained players better, then many of the complaints about HoT would go away.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> Look, I'm playing the game for approx. 5 months. When I started, I also got my kitten handed to me 'cause I didn't bother with builds and gear. When I got a bit more into the game, using better builds and getting some (offensive) gear better than the level-boost-stuff, things got drastically better. It has nothing to do with ego or arrogance; you just have to deal with game-mechanics.

 

This mirrors my experience exactly. HoT forced me to adapt quickly where the core game allowed me to play any way I liked and succeed. Such adaptations like carrying a ranged backup swap for a melee-heavy class just for those times where being at close range is far more dangerous! Or using a stun break on my bar. CC? Why? This is stuff I never bothered with while leveling for the first time in the core game because the encounters were rarely challenging enough to require it. I know some people find core gameplay relaxing, but there's nothing anxiety-inducing about expansion combat for me. That's what I like!

 

For me, HoT was pretty much perfect. I loved the map designs. I'd never considered myself big on exploration (I prefer the combat, generally!), but then I'd never experienced maps like Verdant Brink or Tangled Depths in a game before! Now I guess I'm an explorer all the way!

 

I also think HoT has the best event structure. Map-wide meta events on a timer are enjoyable to me and the set timer makes it easy for me to plan my play time. It's not uncommon for me to catch one map meta and then bounce to the next HoT map to catch that one and so on.

 

I like PoF, too. The bounty system was a great addition. Those champions tend to be a good bit tougher than the HoT HP champions and the unstable magic brings a nice element of randomness to each encounter. The map design, while not as interesting to me as HoT (TD has always been my favorite!), is still a positive for PoF because it presents the perfect playground for mounts! The maps are open, giving you room to run, but there are also plenty of elevation changes and other obstacles to give you reasons to use all of your mounts. I really enjoy that!

 

What's mainly missing from PoF for me are those awesome HoT metas. If they had that I think I would enjoy PoF just as much as I did HoT. Even so, in my opinion, both expansions are far superior to the core game in pretty much every way I can think of. Everything is just better in the expansions!

 

 

[blambidy.3216]

Pof is way easier. When you jump in there is no need for bread crumbs. In hot you really need some type of way to remember where your at. In tangled depths I still end up back trailing few times. And been there plenty. In pof your good and can cruise. I won’t say pof maps are better though it’s just different. If you want to do bounties go there. If you want metas go hot. Both are very entertaining.

[Tails.9372]

I like big multi layered maps, especially Tangled Depths. This map really reminds me of playing through an old JRPG style "dungeon" and it's kinda unique in this regard (although Draconis Mons comes close). I'd love to see more maps like that, nothing against big open maps but there are just some things they and "small" instanced dungeons can't provide.

[Thornwolf.9721]

The PoF maps are boring to be honest, I find myself enjoying the HoT maps far more because they actually feel like Im in a fantasy world. To top that off Im not a big fan of deserts to begin with... so It really does not do jack for me in the sense of theme. I also felt nightfall was the weakest of the original games additions, so I really had no desire or care to go to elonia.

 

The only reason I came was to kill the stupid human god. Which we did, so there is that I guess....

[ugrakarma.9416]

HoT maps are complex at first time, but once u get used to it, u notice a masterpiece that it is.

[otto.5684]

> @"Autolukos.1359" said:

> Hey guys, im currently exploring HoT maps and im having a really hard time doing it. Its like a nightmare. Multiple layers filled with millions of enemies? How can my ele stand a chance?

> Dragon stand and tangled depths will give me an aneurism.

> Are PoF maps any bit less complex/hard?

 

The difficulty in the HoT maps is difficult early access. You need to invest pretty well in gliding before movement is much easier. Auric Basic and Verdant Brink in my opinion where the peak of map design. Not everything is soloable, but the game actively funnels players to complete events together, it is not 173738 player meta where you cannot see jack and difficulty and reward are well designed and implemented.

 

PoF maps, in my opinion, are the devs completely misunderstanding what the players wanted. Yes, tangles depth is impossible to navigate, and I do not always want to spend 1 hour playing a map like dragon stand or silver wastes. And while Hearts were a good side option, but no one wanted them to be the main dish. Sure, the few dozen player events are not my idea of fun, but doing brain dead dailies is even worse. We wanted a happy medium. PoF maps tried to mimic core maps, but with significantly lower amount of content. PoF maps are.. a desert and not in the fun way. They are mostly empty. There is nothing to do there.

 

Domain of Istan kind wanted to be a happy medium between PoF and HoT, yet somehow it managed to be combine the worst aspects of both design. Long wait meta, done by million players, where you cannot see kitten and no mechanics. Mostly empty map, with only 3, pretty boring hearts. In my opinion it is without a doubt the worst map in the game.

 

 

[Lord Kreegan.8123]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > @"Lord Kreegan.8123" said:

> > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > > @"Lord Kreegan.8123" said:

> > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > > > > @"Lord Kreegan.8123" said:

> > > > > > I hate HoT and I'm not too fond of PoF. They are both a complete departure from the original game concept, level designs obviously created by 12-year old kiddies who think impossible combat is fun; you can't do much without a zerg in HoT and multiple other players in PoF.

> > > > > > Individual PoF mobs are overpowered and you'll usually find multiple veterans overlapping agro-ranges, and they'll chase you halfway across the map. There aren't very many waypoints, but you'll quickly notice that there are armor repair anvils next to them; there's a reason for that: You're going to die a lot in PoF.

> > > > > > You'll die a lot in HoT, too, but more often from going over a cliff as you search for hero points or mastery points without a landing spot in sight, hoping you can glide somewhere safe. Jumping and gliding to your death passes for exploration in HoT. The zones are a vertical maze with almost no useful hints from the two-dimensional mini-map. The hero points and mastery points where you don't have to do the glide-to-death routine pretty much require a zerg to get them. There aren't a lot of waypoints in the HoT maps, either.

> > > > > > I highly recommend going into both the first time (presuming you're going to run alts through those ones, too) via the story; that will get you some waypoints and mastery points with a reasonable level of mob opposition.

> > > > >

> > > > > What impossible combat? I get around HoT pretty well alone; beside meta-events, you really don't need some fancy Zergfest to get stuff done. Some hero points (Champion-monsters) are perfectly soloable, some require the help of some people, which is perfectly fine in a M**Multiplayer**ORPG. I really don't get the problem. It really helps getting some appropriate gear and working somewhat on your build. That's probably the real problem you have.

> > > > >

> > > > > > @"Mea.5491" said:

> > > > > > **HoT maps offer better group content, exactly what an MMO should do.** PoF maps feel like a single player game. So yeah, the latter is easier but also more boring.

> > > > >

> > > > > You, dear sir/madam, should be awarded with a prize. Couldn't sum it up better.

> > > >

> > > > Look, Ma, another White Knight presuming that nobody else has gear or a good build! Sigh unseen, the White Knight knows what's wrong with everyone!

> > > > It never fails...

> > >

> > > I don't fault anyone for not liking HoT. I don't care for the maps myself. But you did falsely imply that the combats were impossible. Correcting misinformation is not white knighting, its just setting the record straight.

> >

> > There were no falsehoods and you weren't setting the record straight. You were letting your ego out of its cage and arrogantly implying that everyone else was stupid, incompetent, incapable, etc., etc. ... typical white-knighting.

> > To quote you, "_That's probably the real problem you have._"

>

> Look, I'm playing the game for approx. 5 months. When I started, I also got my kitten handed to me 'cause I didn't bother with builds and gear. When I got a bit more into the game, using better builds and getting some (offensive) gear better than the level-boost-stuff, things got drastically better. It has nothing to do with ego or arrogance; you just have to deal with game-mechanics.

 

I played five characters to 80 at release; I've got five characters at 80 right now and four more I'm leveling up. So don't talk to me about gear and mechanics. I doubt seriously if you know half as much about the game as I do.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Lord Kreegan.8123" said:

>

> I played five characters to 80 at release; I've got five characters at 80 right now and four more I'm leveling up. So don't talk to me about gear and mechanics. I doubt seriously if you know half as much about the game as I do.

 

In fairness, you did refer to HoT/PoF combat as "impossible" and those who designed it (and presumably those who enjoy it as well!) as "12 year old kiddies." You're welcome to enjoy what you enjoy and play the way you want to play. I'm not going to throw insults at you just because we like different things!

 

Please enjoy the following video freshly posted to my channel of Mirage vs. the King Jahnus bounty! And many more impossible feats from HoT and PoF!

[Samnang.1879]

I love everything about PoF!


 

But honestly, I love them both. I'm doing DS at the moment after a while, and man HoT maps are the best! It's amazing, it's the bomb.

 

This is why anet developers should never listen to players... they dont have degrees in gaming design... you do. So plz design the way you want it. HoT maps and gameplay was just extraordinary, out of this world!!!

[battledrone.8315]

> @"Samnang.1879" said:

> I love everything about PoF!

> 

>

> But honestly, I love them both. I'm doing DS at the moment after a while, and man HoT maps are the best! It's amazing, it's the bomb.

>

> This is why anet developers should never listen to players... they dont have degrees in gaming design... you do. So plz design the way you want it. HoT maps and gameplay was just extraordinary, out of this world!!!

 

hot maps suck

they lost so many players, that they havent dared to show any sales of pof

[Samnang.1879]

> @"battledrone.8315" said:

 

> hot maps suck

> they lost so many players, that they havent dared to show any sales of pof

 

People have been saying GW2 is losing players for years........ yet it's still thriving... what is the truth?

Before HoT yall said GW2 has lost half the fanbase, before PoF yall said the fanbase is 80% gone. Yet the game is still thriving, tons of people have mounts...

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Samnang.1879" said:

> > @"battledrone.8315" said:

>

> > hot maps suck

> > they lost so many players, that they havent dared to show any sales of pof

>

> People have been saying GW2 is losing players for years........ yet it's still thriving... what is the truth?

> Before HoT yall said GW2 has lost half the fanbase, before PoF yall said the fanbase is 80% gone. Yet the game is still thriving, tons of people have mounts...

 

Both statements are basically true.

 

I happen to love HoT and dislike the core game. But because the core game is so drastically different from HoT, it largely attracted a different type of player. Many of these players did not enjoy HoT. Further, HoT had issues upon release. Not least of which that it was significantly less convenient and more difficult than it is today. Unfortunately, it took them many months following release (until April, in fact!) to put in the first big fix. Even then you can see that HoT had a polarizing effect on the population: Love it or hate it! It wasn't until LS3 began that the game got back on the right track, but by then many players had already left due to the issues with HoT and the massive content drought that stretched on for months after release.

 

The game may still be thriving, but it also lost a lot of players. HoT may be a great product (I certainly think it is a shining example of open world gameplay done better than any MMO has ever done it before!), but there is far from universal agreement on that!

 

As for PoF? We can only speculate at this point, but anecdotally I am seeing a LOT of new and returning players. I see their posts asking for advice daily on the forums as well as running into them all over both expansions. The question is: How many of them will stay? Of course, I can only guess. However, PoF seems to have its own issues. Mounts are fantastic. The maps seem better-received than the maze-like maps of HoT (nobody is cursing the existence of the desert maps the way they do with my personal favorite map: Tangled Depths!). But I think the big fail on PoF appears to be tossing the HoT event structure in the garbage and failing miserably to provide rewards - a reason to keep playing.

 

So it may be that PoF falls flat as HoT did, even while many players (like me!) are pretty happy with the state of the game and development at this point. In my opinion, they went a little too far toward recreating core Tyria and they would have done better to retain the event structure they developed in HoT. The most common complaint I'm seeing about PoF so far is lack of replay value. What is there to do once you've done it all once? I never stopped doing the HoT metas. They're fun and rewarding. Unless you enjoy bounties (which I do!), PoF is lacking that replayability.

[Samnang.1879]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"Samnang.1879" said:

> > > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> >

> > > hot maps suck

> > > they lost so many players, that they havent dared to show any sales of pof

> >

> > People have been saying GW2 is losing players for years........ yet it's still thriving... what is the truth?

> > Before HoT yall said GW2 has lost half the fanbase, before PoF yall said the fanbase is 80% gone. Yet the game is still thriving, tons of people have mounts...

>

> Both statements are basically true.

>

> I happen to love HoT and dislike the core game. But because the core game is so drastically different from HoT, it largely attracted a different type of player. Many of these players did not enjoy HoT. Further, HoT had issues upon release. Not least of which that it was significantly less convenient and more difficult than it is today. Unfortunately, it took them many months following release (until April, in fact!) to put in the first big fix. Even then you can see that HoT had a polarizing effect on the population: Love it or hate it! It wasn't until LS3 began that the game got back on the right track, but by then many players had already left due to the issues with HoT and the massive content drought that stretched on for months after release.

>

> The game may still be thriving, but it also lost a lot of players. HoT may be a great product (I certainly think it is a shining example of open world gameplay done better than any MMO has ever done it before!), but there is far from universal agreement on that!

>

> As for PoF? We can only speculate at this point, but anecdotally I am seeing a LOT of new and returning players. I see their posts asking for advice daily on the forums as well as running into them all over both expansions. The question is: How many of them will stay? Of course, I can only guess. However, PoF seems to have its own issues. Mounts are fantastic. The maps seem better-received than the maze-like maps of HoT (nobody is cursing the existence of the desert maps the way they do with my personal favorite map: Tangled Depths!). But I think the big fail on PoF appears to be tossing the HoT event structure in the garbage and failing miserably to provide rewards - a reason to keep playing.

>

> So it may be that PoF falls flat as HoT did, even while many players (like me!) are pretty happy with the state of the game and development at this point. In my opinion, they went a little too far toward recreating core Tyria and they would have done better to retain the event structure they developed in HoT. The most common complaint I'm seeing about PoF so far is lack of replay value. What is there to do once you've done it all once? I never stopped doing the HoT metas. They're fun and rewarding. Unless you enjoy bounties (which I do!), PoF is lacking that replayability.

 

I agree; that's what I really like about HoT maps, the metas are amazing + good rewards.

I can't believe they didn't transfer that into PoF maps, imagine fighting Balthazar in a meta setting like fighting Mordremoth in DS during meta. I was expecting that but it didn't come.

[Raizel.8175]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> So it may be that PoF falls flat as HoT did, even while many players (like me!) are pretty happy with the state of the game and development at this point. In my opinion, they went a little too far toward recreating core Tyria and they would have done better to retain the event structure they developed in HoT. The most common complaint I'm seeing about PoF so far is lack of replay value. What is there to do once you've done it all once? I never stopped doing the HoT metas. They're fun and rewarding. Unless you enjoy bounties (which I do!), PoF is lacking that replayability.

 

Well, I guess the problem is the mentality nowadays. The MMORPG-audience has changed a lot over the last decade. Some changes are good (like having high standards to game-design), others really bad though. Personally, I think ANet did nearly everything right with Heart of Thorn, forcing people to play together (like they should in a MMORPG), forcing them to learn mechanics, provide maps in which you can get lost to create a real feeling of exploration and offer somewhat of a challenge. Problem is that people nowadays want that everything's easy and that you can do stuff brain-afk. There's also the rotten solo-play-tendency which more and more developers cater to. Hell, PoF basically felt somewhat like a Single-Player-game with some events as optional Coop-component. Doesn't help that some Mobile-MMOs "play themself" so you don't have to do anything. Another problem is the rotten progression-addiction to a point where progression becomes the main reason to play a game rather that the gameplay itself. Just look at the threads where people want legendaries to have better stats so they have fixed goals and continue to feel progression. Maybe I'm getting old...

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > So it may be that PoF falls flat as HoT did, even while many players (like me!) are pretty happy with the state of the game and development at this point. In my opinion, they went a little too far toward recreating core Tyria and they would have done better to retain the event structure they developed in HoT. The most common complaint I'm seeing about PoF so far is lack of replay value. What is there to do once you've done it all once? I never stopped doing the HoT metas. They're fun and rewarding. Unless you enjoy bounties (which I do!), PoF is lacking that replayability.

>

> Well, I guess the problem is the mentality nowadays. The MMORPG-audience has changed a lot over the last decade. Some changes are good (like having high standards to game-design), others really bad though. Personally, I think ANet did nearly everything right with Heart of Thorn, forcing people to play together (like they should in a MMORPG), forcing them to learn mechanics, provide maps in which you can get lost to create a real feeling of exploration and offer somewhat of a challenge. Problem is that people nowadays want that everything's easy and that you can do stuff brain-afk. There's also the rotten solo-play-tendency which more and more developers cater to. Hell, PoF basically felt somewhat like a Single-Player-game with some events as optional Coop-component. Doesn't help that some Mobile-MMOs "play themself" so you don't have to do anything. Another problem is the rotten progression-addiction to a point where progression becomes the main reason to play a game rather that the gameplay itself. Just look at the threads where people want legendaries to have better stats so they have fixed goals and continue to feel progression. Maybe I'm getting old...

 

I think WoW demonstrated that an MMO could have mass appeal. Where its predecessors (e.g. EQ) were decidedly more "hardcore", WoW brought in players that never would have touched EQ. Skip ahead to GW2. Rather than compete directly by playing WoW's game, they wanted to create something different. They succeeded in that, but a large part of their success was likely in attracting players who wouldn't have touched WoW (i.e. even more casual players!).

 

The trouble is that what those players absolutely loved (core Tyria), players like myself found incredibly dull. So when HoT came around, people like me showed up to play while many of the core player base felt like a massive bait-and-switch had been pulled. It's difficult to reconcile both sides, but I think PoF was mostly a step in the right direction. GW2 generally does a good job of offering something for everyone. But it's a difficult balancing act to pull off.

 

I think if they could update the event structure in PoF and offer proper incentives to attract players back again and again to participate in those events, they will have a real winner. They've already had great success with their release schedule since the beginning of LS3 and they seem to realize that. They just need to tighten up the open world side of things and get some more replayable content in there.

[Vargamonth.2047]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

>

> There's also the rotten solo-play-tendency which more and more developers cater to. Hell, PoF basically felt somewhat like a Single-Player-game with some events as optional Coop-component.

 

I can't really agree with this.

HoT has more obvious and relevant metas, which are of course group content, but in terms of exploration and regular play PoF isn't much more solo-play oriented than HoT.

HoT has harder Hero Points, but PoF has a lot of bounties which are overall less solo-friendly than HoT HPs.

PoF "metas", while requiring far less people, are still done in a way that demands splitting and can hardly be completed alone. Some events do require a minimum amount of people to start, even if the event itself is perfectly soloable (yes Zommoros Lair, I'm looking at you). Also, since many of PoF group events have crappy replay value, it's fairly common to find no people around to do them and feel blocked, something far less frequent in HoT.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Vargamonth.2047" said:

> > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> >

> > There's also the rotten solo-play-tendency which more and more developers cater to. Hell, PoF basically felt somewhat like a Single-Player-game with some events as optional Coop-component.

>

> I can't really agree with this.

> HoT has more obvious and relevant metas, which are of course group content, but in terms of exploration and regular play PoF isn't much more solo-play oriented than HoT.

> HoT has harder Hero Points, but PoF has a lot of bounties which are overall less solo-friendly than HoT HPs.

> PoF "metas", while requiring far less people, are still done in a way that demands splitting and can hardly be completed alone. Some events do require a minimum amount of people to start, even if the event itself is perfectly soloable (yes Zommoros Lair, I'm looking at you). Also, since many of PoF group events have crappy replay value, it's fairly common to find no people around to do them and feel blocked, something far less frequent in HoT.

 

I agree. I see little difference in the overall difficulty. However, two of the biggest complaints about HoT were the convoluted map layouts and champion HP challenges. That's not an issue in PoF, so perhaps it appears more solo-friendly as a result?