GW2 needs the henchmen from GW1

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"CptAurellian.9537" said:

> *sigh* Why does the ... not very intelligent idea of henchmen resurface again and again? In most story steps _and_ quite some other cases, we can admire the NPC incapability of doing anything useful. Who would want that nonsense replicated on a much larger scale? Not to mention all the workload that would be required for such a system, the massive balancing problems and who knows what else.

 

Because what OP asks for is actual hero system like we had in GW1 where NPCs did many things right. E.g. AI mesmers were much better as interrupt henchmans than average player was.

[GreyWolf.8670]

I disagree. What's needed is better grouping tools.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

Given how unhelpful the current NPCs are, if ANet does this, they better overhaul the NPCs' AI.

[Ayakaru.6583]

I’ll agree that the population for dungeons is diminutive,

But as for the rest, i disagree. The population is still bustling with life.

Something i suggested before was making the story mode of dungeons solo, and making it part of the Orr campaign, so its part of the actual story.

[EpicName.4523]

Sooo, let's play an mmorpg by using bots to do group content. With that mindset, the OP can just play a regular rpg without the "mmo" part?

[Linken.6345]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > snip

> > >

> > > All your "arguments" are based on anecdotal evidence. Game is losing players - the revenue is shrinking since LW S2. Community is in decline. I'm pretty sure there are no more than 500k monthly active players in total

> > Re-read. Every game loses population; that happens industry wide. What I said was the rate of decline is less than expected.

> > Further one doesn't need to provide more than anecdotal evidence to refute the OP's anecdotal claims that there aren't any people available to party up. In fact, all I said (in response to their anecdotes) was that I'm not having the same experience as the OP.

> >

> > If you want specific evidence for how many people do fractals vs PvE, there are some decent proxies to compare using GW2 Efficiency. You'll find that there are far more in PvE than in Fractals & Raids combined.

> >

> > But it doesn't matter if I have any evidence at all: the burden is on the OP who wants to see an immense change in the fundamental mechanics of the game. The basis of that request is based on assuming facts for which they haven't provided evidence. And it further assumes that the only reasonable way to address that assumed lack of community is to add NPCs to parties, even in WvW.

> >

> > It's up to the OP to first show that the situation is dire enough to require a massive change and then to at least consider the possibility that there might be several ways to address it.

>

> Actually you focused on OPs starting claim which is irrelevant for his idea. Customisable hero addition would help people who don't enjoy very elitist gw2 community in group content to actually play the game without stress. You can even monetizehero skins to help shrinking revenue

 

Than start all welcome groups in the lfg and not 1 druid 1 chrono 1 banner babe and 2xdps 100k ap 2k kp etc.

All welcome groups are how you stay away from what you say are elitists.

 

Will your dungeon fractal take longer or maybe not be able to be completed?

Will take longer for sure some of the members in your group might be to bad to complete some paths aswell and kicking them turn the group into a elitist one so watch out for that.

[Obtena.7952]

You know what another solution is? making good builds for the content you want to do.

[KeoLegend.5132]

No. I dont want to play another SWTOR

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > Actually you focused on OPs starting claim which is irrelevant for his idea. Customisable hero addition would help people who don't enjoy very elitist gw2 community in group content to actually play the game without stress. You can even monetizehero skins to help shrinking revenue

> >

> > Since none of that was part of the OP's argument, I can't imagine why you think it should be addressed in response to the original post.

> > The starting claim is obviously relevant, since it was given as the basis for the suggestion.

> >

> > If you want to make those arguments in your own (new) thread, go ahead. They are also based on assuming facts not in evidence and without regard to the cost of developing the system in the first place: it can't help ANet's profit to increase revenue while increasing maintenance costs.

>

> Since I'm all for introducing customisable heroes for gw2, I see no reason to start new thread. OP's intentions or justifications are irrelevant as what matters is the effect. Customisable heroes would make the game more accessible for players who have troubles finding group for themselves. In addition Anet can easily monetize hero system with skins making it a win win scenario.

 

And what about the effect Heroes had on grouping/partying up in Guild Wars? It may help one group of players and hurt another group. Would it be worth the trade-off in an MMO?

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > snip

> > >

> > > All your "arguments" are based on anecdotal evidence. Game is losing players - the revenue is shrinking since LW S2. Community is in decline. I'm pretty sure there are no more than 500k monthly active players in total

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Where is your evidence then of this so-called "decline" because all it sounds like so far is nay-sayer speak without any actual evidence to back it up.

>

> "the revenue is shrinking since LW S2."

 

Revenue fluctuated around a plateau between the end of LS2 and HOT release. It then spiked up for 2 quarters with HoT sales, then dropped to a new, lower, plateau with the content drop. It trended slowly down in general the between XPac periods, then spiked up during the two latest quarters, doubtless due to PoF sales and mount skin sales in the store. This is a similar pattern to what goes on with WoW -- spikes around XPac release, down in the in-between times -- except with smaller numbers.

 

As to the topic ... I doubt heroes/henchmen would be very good for instanced content. The original game's NPC AI was better than that in use in GW2, and the burden on AI as far as being a help to the PC is much greater. Think about how ineffective the NPC's are in dungeons and story. That's the state of the art as far as GW2 AI goes.

[Dimi Gravedancer.1463]

I can see it now, just like "Due to Map Population, Minis Have Been Hidden"

"Do to Rising Map Population, Henchman have been hidden"

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > Actually you focused on OPs starting claim which is irrelevant for his idea. Customisable hero addition would help people who don't enjoy very elitist gw2 community in group content to actually play the game without stress. You can even monetizehero skins to help shrinking revenue

> > >

> > > Since none of that was part of the OP's argument, I can't imagine why you think it should be addressed in response to the original post.

> > > The starting claim is obviously relevant, since it was given as the basis for the suggestion.

> > >

> > > If you want to make those arguments in your own (new) thread, go ahead. They are also based on assuming facts not in evidence and without regard to the cost of developing the system in the first place: it can't help ANet's profit to increase revenue while increasing maintenance costs.

> >

> > Since I'm all for introducing customisable heroes for gw2, I see no reason to start new thread. OP's intentions or justifications are irrelevant as what matters is the effect. Customisable heroes would make the game more accessible for players who have troubles finding group for themselves. In addition Anet can easily monetize hero system with skins making it a win win scenario.

>

> And what about the effect Heroes had on grouping/partying up in Guild Wars? It may help one group of players and hurt another group. Would it be worth the trade-off in an MMO?

 

Yes. First of all, statics will be unharmed. Unless you assume people here hate each other by default and play together only because they have no other choice.

 

For pugs... that's irrelevant. It's already forced gameplay for many to use LFG and adapt to other people.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > > snip

> > > >

> > > > All your "arguments" are based on anecdotal evidence. Game is losing players - the revenue is shrinking since LW S2. Community is in decline. I'm pretty sure there are no more than 500k monthly active players in total

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Where is your evidence then of this so-called "decline" because all it sounds like so far is nay-sayer speak without any actual evidence to back it up.

> >

> > "the revenue is shrinking since LW S2."

>

> Revenue fluctuated around a plateau between the end of LS2 and HOT release. It then spiked up for 2 quarters with HoT sales, then dropped to a new, lower, plateau with the content drop. It trended slowly down in general the between XPac periods, then spiked up during the two latest quarters, doubtless due to PoF sales and mount skin sales in the store. This is a similar pattern to what goes on with WoW -- spikes around XPac release, down in the in-between times -- except with smaller numbers.

>

> As to the topic ... I doubt heroes/henchmen would be very good for instanced content. The original game's NPC AI was better than that in use in GW2, and the burden on AI as far as being a help to the PC is much greater. Think about how ineffective the NPC's are in dungeons and story. That's the state of the art as far as GW2 AI goes.

 

If you watch revenue graphs since release to this day, the tendency is down. Even with upside fluctuations the overall trend is bad.

 

NPC AI is purposfully dumbed down. Why enemies can play "smart" and our npcs not?

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > Actually you focused on OPs starting claim which is irrelevant for his idea. Customisable hero addition would help people who don't enjoy very elitist gw2 community in group content to actually play the game without stress. You can even monetizehero skins to help shrinking revenue

> > > >

> > > > Since none of that was part of the OP's argument, I can't imagine why you think it should be addressed in response to the original post.

> > > > The starting claim is obviously relevant, since it was given as the basis for the suggestion.

> > > >

> > > > If you want to make those arguments in your own (new) thread, go ahead. They are also based on assuming facts not in evidence and without regard to the cost of developing the system in the first place: it can't help ANet's profit to increase revenue while increasing maintenance costs.

> > >

> > > Since I'm all for introducing customisable heroes for gw2, I see no reason to start new thread. OP's intentions or justifications are irrelevant as what matters is the effect. Customisable heroes would make the game more accessible for players who have troubles finding group for themselves. In addition Anet can easily monetize hero system with skins making it a win win scenario.

> >

> > And what about the effect Heroes had on grouping/partying up in Guild Wars? It may help one group of players and hurt another group. Would it be worth the trade-off in an MMO?

>

> Yes. First of all, statics will be unharmed. Unless you assume people here hate each other by default and play together only because they have no other choice.

>

> For pugs... that's irrelevant. It's already forced gameplay for many to use LFG and adapt to other people.

 

Well, that's not what happened in Guild Wars. But, if you are sure it won't happen in Guild Wars 2...

 

Good luck.

 

(Not that I suspect it will ever happen here, as the NPCs have already been purposely changed to help less.)

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > > > snip

> > > > >

> > > > > All your "arguments" are based on anecdotal evidence. Game is losing players - the revenue is shrinking since LW S2. Community is in decline. I'm pretty sure there are no more than 500k monthly active players in total

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Where is your evidence then of this so-called "decline" because all it sounds like so far is nay-sayer speak without any actual evidence to back it up.

> > >

> > > "the revenue is shrinking since LW S2."

> >

> > Revenue fluctuated around a plateau between the end of LS2 and HOT release. It then spiked up for 2 quarters with HoT sales, then dropped to a new, lower, plateau with the content drop. It trended slowly down in general the between XPac periods, then spiked up during the two latest quarters, doubtless due to PoF sales and mount skin sales in the store. This is a similar pattern to what goes on with WoW -- spikes around XPac release, down in the in-between times -- except with smaller numbers.

> >

> > As to the topic ... I doubt heroes/henchmen would be very good for instanced content. The original game's NPC AI was better than that in use in GW2, and the burden on AI as far as being a help to the PC is much greater. Think about how ineffective the NPC's are in dungeons and story. That's the state of the art as far as GW2 AI goes.

>

> If you watch revenue graphs since release to this day, the tendency is down. Even with upside fluctuations the overall trend is bad.

>

> NPC AI is purposfully dumbed down. Why enemies can play "smart" and our npcs not?

 

Ive not yet seen an enemy play smart in GW2. They tend to just be, inmy experience, big dumb, bags of health,

[kharmin.7683]

Just play a necromancer and summon your lackeys.

[DarcShriek.5829]

In my opinion heroes made GW1 a single player experience. I do not wan that for GW2. I am against heroes in GW2.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

> @"Derenek.8931" said:

> Currently as the game population is dying off and the veteran players are all moving to raids and fractals, the rest of the world is deserted. If you want to do a dungeon, story quests, personal story, level up, etc its either solo yolo it, or just skip past that content.... There just arent people available to join your party.

>

> Having some henchmen that you could equip and skill up like in GW1 would be awesome for newer players and older players who want to play the game, but arent interested in doing nothing but raids and the new expansion pack zones.

>

> It would also be great for squad based WvW or SPvP content.

 

Um. Why not just scale down such content to solo play instead? Pretty sure it'd help for anything that is old but considered "group" content. Obviously scale rewards to fit.

 

And having henchies in competitive play is a bad idea...I think they had it on for Alliance battles back in GW1 for a week and it just clogged queues. Furthermore, they created a whole separate "PvP" arena just for hero play. Irony is, people just did /roll 100 to determine the winner in order to saite their achievement hunger.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"GDchiaScrub.3241" said:

> > @"Derenek.8931" said:

> > Currently as the game population is dying off and the veteran players are all moving to raids and fractals, the rest of the world is deserted. If you want to do a dungeon, story quests, personal story, level up, etc its either solo yolo it, or just skip past that content.... There just arent people available to join your party.

> >

> > Having some henchmen that you could equip and skill up like in GW1 would be awesome for newer players and older players who want to play the game, but arent interested in doing nothing but raids and the new expansion pack zones.

> >

> > It would also be great for squad based WvW or SPvP content.

>

> Um. Why not just scale down such content to solo play instead? Pretty sure it'd help for anything that is old but considered "group" content. Obviously scale rewards to fit.

>

> And having henchies in competitive play is a bad idea...I think they had it on for Alliance battles back in GW1 for a week and it just clogged queues. Furthermore, they created a whole separate "PvP" arena just for hero play. Irony is, people just did /roll 100 to determine the winner in order to saite their achievement hunger.

 

Implementing customisable heroes can be monetized. First of all, hero skins. Secondly you create gold sink because player gonna need to buy/create equipment for their heroes.

[lynspottery.6529]

There are only two other games I've played where I had a "sidekick" (champion or henchman) that actually was fairly useful when I went solo. SWTOR and WoW. Both games offer this npc helper and the stats/profession are not chosen by you but you can choose which one in your group of selections you can use. Both games offered these npc that had different abilities and skills from which you could chose. When I was playing those games I generally chose the companion that I felt would be most helpful for my selected tasks for my run. In order to swap them out, you needed to go back to your base of operations (class halls in WoW, or ship in SWTOR).

 

However, since I've not been playing them for some time, I can't speak to how relevant they are currently. I just know that it was a good idea and the AI seemed to work pretty well when I used them. Sometimes that little bit of help is what kept me from dying in a particular intense battle or instance for my story. I would like to see that in GW2, but doubt Anet will implement them.

 

After seeing how poorly the current AI works for our current story Heroes, I don't expect much. The current story Heroes offered up tend to stand around while the mobs and min-bosses in your instances pound on you. The only help I've ever really gotten was a rez when I got downed....but that is all. If that is an example of the "help" we could expect from any companion should Anet implement them, then I can do without them.

[lokh.2695]

Wouldn't mind the henchmen and would actually enjoy collecting them.

Haven't had problems finding ppl to do dungeons or open world stuff in years now on the other hand so I doubt we NEED!!!!!!! the feature to keep playing.

[Demented Sheep.1642]

I don't think it's really necessary in GW2. It would be kinda cool and useful to some players but is it worth doing overall? GW1 was much more team based, unless you were doing a self limiting solo challenge you were in team of either NPC's or players. It also had defined roles and less "actiony" combat. Heros were a way to stop the "LFHealer" issues and the AI worked fine or even better than most players for certain builds. The issue of there not being enough players was better solved by having rotating bonus rewards on missions to funnel players into doing the same content at the same time.

GW2 is mostly soloable or large scale content. Dungeons are abandoned and unsupported by the devs with the main story dungeon being scaled down for solo already, fractals are not hard to find groups for and raids are suppose to be difficult and require coordinating with other players. The maps are not empty so I haven't had much trouble finding people for openworld champs and if a champ is sitting on a HP and I can't find anyone for it there are frequently HP trains.

 

I don't want heros in PvP or WvW.

[Mea.5491]

> @"Derenek.8931" said:

> Currently as the game population is dying off and the veteran players are all moving to raids and fractals, the rest of the world is deserted. If you want to do a dungeon, story quests, personal story, level up, etc its either solo yolo it, or just skip past that content.

 

Or make friends and play with them? That's what people should do in a **massively multiplayer** game instead of playing with boring NPCs (which is also a form of soloing, btw).

[sorudo.9054]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> Just play a necromancer and summon your lackeys.

 

if it was that simple i could solo every dungeon, with that _not_ being possible for me ill ask for something like henchies so it fills the group.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Mea.5491" said:

> > @"Derenek.8931" said:

> > Currently as the game population is dying off and the veteran players are all moving to raids and fractals, the rest of the world is deserted. If you want to do a dungeon, story quests, personal story, level up, etc its either solo yolo it, or just skip past that content.

>

> Or make friends and play with them? That's what people should do in a **massively multiplayer** game instead of playing with boring NPCs (which is also a form of soloing, btw).

 

Read about "play alone together" syndrom. What you say was true when Ultima Online was a thing, this generation is different.