Kelly.7019 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 YES WE DO! > @"ZRoosty.7391" said: > I feel like the main criticisms at the moment come from the lack of replayability in the lastest LS Episode. The meta isn't fun or rewarding, and there is an overall lack of new long term rewards to work towards. And I feel like both of these are consequences from the design philosophy that every new episode has to come with a new map. I feel like a lot of time is wasted on the design of these maps when they are mostly abondend a few weeks later. A time that could instead be used by the design team to work on new raids, fractals or story instances. The latest episode could have perfectly taken place in the Desolation, with us storming on the bone palace. I wouldn't suggest that new maps should be permanently removed from LS releases, Istan was great to revisit, but taking the time to add more landmass to Tyria when we already have such a large world to explore feels redundant. Instead of half hearted meta events, give us rewards that never go out of relevance in the form of cosmetics. Or atleast examine how much trouble the new maps are really worth ANET. I have to disagree. New exploration is what i look forward too more then raids, fractals or story. Honestly, i didn't think this would come tied to LW episodes in the beginning. I thought we would get them at the start of HoT & PoF like we did with Core Tyria. But If not a new map every episode then i expect 4 maps at once! :D You can add more story content and dynamic events that go with that story later like the Kessex Hills shakeup (living World season 2?) but make it permanent. I feel like a lot of time is wasted on raids, a direction i wish the game never went for a niche, salty, can be easily negative crowd. The game has one of the most positive communities i've seen and you want to ruin it with raiding? uhhg. I think the reason the maps are mostly abondend a few weeks later is because of the PoF easy mentality and to not make it grindy like HoT which i loved. Good Dynamic Metas that keep you coming back to collect map specific currency. After PoF was released alot of folks finished their cheeves and went back to these HoT maps because the PoF ones felt boring. This isn't the maps fault but the design philosophy. Which adding new maps brings people back into the PoF world and Story should tie them together better. Instead of going to core tyria for Kourna chieves keep them in PoF maps at least! I think the devs should take time to add more landmass to Tyria. I want to see the entire world! But take the time to design it right. Have metas the keep bringing people back. I pref different map currency over the same thing everywhere. Enough with this easy content for newbies, lets make some more challening or hidden things. Make a new exploration game mode, hidden secrets & treasures await for those that seek it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesacon.8735 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > If you said this during LW3 I would argue. But after recent patch I agree. > > Se3 suffered from this as well. Pretty maps with not much to do. I think this problem stems from the business model of charging for LW episodes after the initial release period. If you bought one episode but not another on one of these maps, that would screw with the model. Which isn't to say it's a good model at all. You don't need to purchase LW2 episodes to play Dry Top or Silverwastes. But you _do_ (well, did) need to purchase them to realistically max all central tyria masteries. The resources being spent on one map per episode could be used to develop one map per half-season like in LW2, but give that map some staying power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hevoskuuri.3891 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > If you said this during LW3 I would argue. But after recent patch I agree. > > Se3 suffered from this as well. Pretty maps with not much to do. This seems to be very individual. Personally I've found much enjoyment in the LS maps, and still do. I farm currencies, events, hunt story achievements, do collections, and I never get bored with them. So I deeply disagree with OP; keep those maps comin'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanner Blackfeather.6509 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 From what I've read about the gradual release of DT and SW it sounds like a fun idea. I'd love a huuuuge map gradually opened up over say four episodes. This would of course require a tighter release schedule, but with a meta event that grows with the map I think a 6-8 week pace could be ok! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joneirikb.7506 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Just throwing in an idea here: What if they recycled maps a little more? They make a map for a chapter, then they recycle it the next 1 or 2 chapters, and add more stuff to the map (thus fleshing it out over time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alga.6498 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Fixed it for you: **WE** ~~dont~~ **need a new map for every episode.** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexi.1398 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 I would have to disagree. Only the AP hunter in me is glad i bought ls2, the rest of me kinda regrets it - lots of money (vs ls3 and ls4 by sheer number of episodes) for a couple hours of content at most. I've gotten so much out of the ls3 and ls4 maps, they're what i look forward to more than the actual story honestly - and that's not just in farming currency. Fun achieves, fun map design - i particularly love Draconis Mons for this! Without map, i'd honestly never be able to justify spending gems on it if i didn't get it for free by being here already. I do not regret a single penny of rl cash i used to buy gems for ls3, but ls2 left me wondering why i paid so much for so little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 I am enjoying new maps, especially when they are well done like in LWS4 so far. The replayability isn't bound to the map per se but to the events placed in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 I do not about the story. It has been crap since PoF started and was not really stellar at any point before. I want the new maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einlanzer.1627 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 > @"Zelanard.5806" said: > You say that as though "meta events" is the only content in this game xD > Quite frankly, I think they should stop making meta events to every new map. > Every map does not Need replayability. a map is perfectly fine as "Story Content + Achievements" > Move on to next map. > BTW. They have a dedicated LS team, (unless they changed that while I was looking away?) I strongly doubt they have anything to do with fractals and dungeons and raids... > I must say though, I'd much rather see either 5man raids or dungeons than full raids... I will never get around to do those, because I find them tedious. (tedious, because of the party size). I agree with this. I think the problem is people expecting every new map to have a rewarding meta and reasons to stay camped there or go back long term. Not only is that not necessary, it would actually be bad for the game. We need to get maps that are there mostly for story and solo exploration and not for zerg farming. I think the biggest disappointment with this map was how much better Gandara could have been - a new real city acting as a possible hub for players would have made this map a lot better. It didn't need an over-the-top meta for people to farm. We already have numerous of those in the game. More generally, I would mostly have liked to see more creativity and thematic variety in the maps these season. Last season was great for this. The Bloodstone Fens is a very unique zone, and every subsequent one had a very different flavor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joneirikb.7506 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Now having this mental image of a "meta event chain" that span multiple maps, so you start in 1 map, complete it, and then go to the next map and do the meta there, and continue like that until the entire map chain is done. Not sure if that would be a good or bad thing, but it sure would be something different, and could actually keep interest up for multiple maps. And honestly, they should just go over and standardize rewards in the entire game, so it doesn't make a difference what you do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenom.9457 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Yes we absolutely do, new maps are my favorite thing in the entire game, I in fact want them MORE often than one per episode. I would gladly pay for additional maps either as side stories, mission packs, core tyria additions, anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmus.2083 Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 Me then: Oh neat, new maps to explore! Me now: New maps to grind and die in to mobs set literally every four feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokh.2695 Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 I like that they add new maps with each release, but only if it's finished. Kourna just doesn't feel like it is and I hope instead f a new map, we will get a story that deals with the aftermath of this episode and an overhaul to Kourna next instead of a new map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rauderi.8706 Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > Ls2 is a fine example of thorough and deep use of assetts in just two maps, going back and forth between them, as well the old world. Kinda true, yeah. Living world added to older maps, and newer ones had some slow reveals. Granted, some of that was based on a more frequent, staggered release schedule, but (as much as I hate to give praise to it at all...) Dry Top did reasonably well with it. With sufficient planning and design space, each new map could be built to house 2 or more updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaeys.3102 Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 The only problem is they obviously felt rushed to release Kourna and cut corners with the meta event and a few other things to get it out the door. We only use one of the three lanes during the meta, the final boss is boring and has almost no mechanics, plaguedoctor armor has no unique skins, 2/3 of Gandara is unused real estate, etc. They should have either held off and delivered it when it was complete or dedicated more resources from other teams to get it done. All we can hope for now is that they revisit and complete the map before moving on to whatever is next. The problem isn't that they shouldn't give us new maps with each release. The problem is they need to dedicate the resources needed to fully finish the content before pushing it out the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 > @"ZRoosty.7391" said: > I feel like the main criticisms at the moment come from the lack of replayability in the lastest LS Episode. The meta isn't fun or rewarding, and there is an overall lack of new long term rewards to work towards. And I feel like both of these are consequences from the design philosophy that every new episode has to come with a new map. I feel like a lot of time is wasted on the design of these maps when they are mostly abondend a few weeks later. A time that could instead be used by the design team to work on new raids, fractals or story instances. The latest episode could have perfectly taken place in the Desolation, with us storming on the bone palace. I wouldn't suggest that new maps should be permanently removed from LS releases, Istan was great to revisit, but taking the time to add more landmass to Tyria when we already have such a large world to explore feels redundant. Instead of half hearted meta events, give us rewards that never go out of relevance in the form of cosmetics. Or atleast examine how much trouble the new maps are really worth ANET. Partially have to disagree here. New maps allow players to move thru the world and experience new things. A big part of MMOs is places to explore. If you don't expand on that then you will lose people. That said I am a fan of replay-ability. But what are elements of that: * Fun - Is it fun to play on solo or a group * Events - Does it have engaging content * Rewards/Zone drops - Is it worth the time or reward something that is used to further something * Value-able zone currencies - does it have a currency that is beneficial to player, this si close but different from rewards * Consumables - Is the map a source of something that the player will need to return to to re-acquire over time * Links from other content - does the map host items/events that tie back to it * Environment - How well is the design/feel/mood of the map to the player I think successful maps includes all or mixes of the above. New map is still new to me so will see how this one holds out. I do think new maps are needed each time but I also like that there are links from it to older maps. Some people might take issue that PoF maps are pointing to core and HoT maps but I think this is balanced and am fine as it acting as plug to both core and expansion maps. I also like that again there is an ongoing use for the zone currency but its an optional aspect. If anything I wouldn't mind seeing even core maps have aspects like that. Oh I need to play events on "x" maps to get more of "y". Suggested in the past forums higher level of potions/utilities (think existing food and utilities as greens and then we have rares, exotic, ascended and legendary consumables that require more and more materials) and in LS3 we got some of the that. Yes you can use a food that does +60 precision and life stealing on crit or you can add in these additional materials and now we have +60 precision, life stealing on crit and bonus magic find. I think things like that are good links that tie new and older content. I like the fact that new collections and achievo's tie into older content and that is a link between the two, IMO. I do agree that I think that some of the future LS should layer in more things into PoF, I still don't find myself going back there as often as I do HoT maps, but I like HoT because I still enjoy the map meta events and am still working on some collections there. But the other reason that new maps are a plus is not every map is going to be for everyone and there is no way to make one that will fit everyone. I think most players will say they have maps they prefer in core, HoT and PoF. So adding in more maps in each LS release just bets that some will stick with some players and others for others. I can say that new maps does draw people back, when guildies that are taking a break ask about releases, if the release includes new content on new maps versus new content on old maps it seems to have better odds re-engaging them as well. Just food to thought, good gaming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloc Freidon.5692 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 I like what they are trying to do with the current LW taking us back to certain PoF maps to do stuff. I hope the next expansion plays on this. Have lots of stuff on new maps but a reason to revisit core game maps while doing it. Maybe we figured out a way to restore the world's magic from the damage we caused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blocki.4931 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Only way to do this would be to overhaul old maps to the point that they are new.. and it would still be bad. No, we definitely do need new maps on every release because that precedent has been set a long time ago. The story telling uses the new location to drive the story forward and going back and forth between old content to go into an instance only works to start a new episode off or in episodes leading up to a new expansion. How about they just don't make maps as bad as Kourna ever again as a compromise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > I am enjoying new maps, especially when they are well done like in LWS4 so far. The replayability isn't bound to the map per se but to the events placed in it. I can't believe anyone can say this about Kourna with straight face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProtoGunner.4953 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 I didn't have lots of complaints, had fun with the content generally. What I dislike is the lack of immersion: again we have some secluded landmass without any connection to the other parts. Now we have Vabbi, Istan and Sandswept Isles lying around instanced and secluded. They don't feel connected. And it would be nice when we finally get access from Ebonhawk to the Crystal Desert - wasn't that door there _exactly_ to do that? Also: why no interconnection between all those areas? Too expensive/hard to handle? I just remind you that WoW had an interconnected world back in 2004... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malafaia.8903 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Yes, we need. The problem with LWS4 Ep.3 is we have an awesome new map (like all on S4, so far) that was TERRIBLY used. I still have hope Anet came to us and say: "Ok bois, we know we screw up on this map's meta/ hearts/ events, and here's the overhaul". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dami.5046 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Oh c'mon. Part of a new chapter is exploring the map and stuff - it's what I personally enjoy the most. I wish there wasn't so much blah blah in the stories, if anything. I will say however, I was not overly impressed with Kourna. It just looked like a cut and paste of other areas, same buildings, same dusty landscape. Mount was ok, bit of fun. *shrugs* The moonfort had so many possibilities, but that meta >< maybe one day the access card will drop for me. But please, don't rush the next one, because this one did seemed rushed to get it out. And players just need to be patient. please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybarf Tics.2048 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Yes we do otherwise people will lose interest. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 > @"Hybarf Tics.2048" said: > Yes we do otherwise people will lose interest. :/ Could you explain how releasing unfinished, cut content in form of Kourna map helps the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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