Beetle endurance

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> The raptor, compared, has mediocre speed constantly. The beetle has low speed at first, but can then burst.

>

> Obviously the intended design is that raptors are meant for medium distances, and beetles for long distances

 

The raptor can jump. Why do people who are fine with the beetle always gloss over this very obvious difference between these two mounts? This is an important distinction when speaking of overlap between these two mounts as the beetle can only travel over very flat ground with few obstacles. The raptor has no such limitation. To ignore this fact is to suggest that the beetle would overlap the raptor in many cases where it clearly would not.

[Kal Spiro.9745]

Just like diving fills the Griffon's endurance, going down hills should fill the beetles, but it should also start with full endurance. I don't need it to replace the raptor/jackal, but I would like to see it be as fun as it could be, and it isn't right now. It's only real value, right now, is in a way to get across a zone quickly, as long as you won't be making any stops, and for some reason don't have a WP or don't want to WP.

[Dreamy Lu.3865]

Can't vote, no option match my thinking: I simply don't care, except maybe if the change would concern having one more dye channel, but it is not the point of this thread! :3

 

Nothing negative in the fact that I do not care. Simply, I find the beetle cute and fun to use, but I have it hard to manage it and at the top of it, I get motion sickness very rapidly with it: As a result, now that I am done with area completion (a few pois need the beetle), I am back to using raptor/springer/skimmer, my main for daily use.

 

For me, Jackal, Griffon - and now Beetle too - remain side mounts that I use sporadically only, for specific cases: Griffon = flying long distances straight, jackal = sand portals, beetle = going through out walls. That's why whatever changes could be done to one or the other would have little - to no - impact in my case. I would probably not even notice.

[crepuscular.9047]

start with full endurance, it's so boring just sitting around doing nothing just to wait for the endurance bar to fill up

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> The raptor can jump. Why do people who are fine with the beetle always gloss over this very obvious difference between these two mounts? This is an important distinction when speaking of overlap between these two mounts as the beetle can only travel over very flat ground with few obstacles. The raptor has no such limitation. To ignore this fact is to suggest that the beetle would overlap the raptor in many cases where it clearly would not.

It also has a turn radius that isn't measured in city blocks.

 

The beetle's endurance thing makes it super awkward to use and doubly so given that we're forced to dismount to gather or talk to NPCs, which resets the endurance bar to zero all over again.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

The problem I have is the following: being one who is now farming every node (thank you anet on failing to balance TP with shit ton of mats), I mount up, travel slowly for like 8-9 seconds and have to dismount or am charging just to dismount halfway to farm the node. Both the raptor and jackal are far superior then.

 

Of course if you travel longer distances on a rather flat surface the beetle is extremely fast and the best choice. Still dismounting halfway only to farm a node and then again waiting a damn 10 seconds to just gain speed is annoying. At least shorten the time til the endurance bar is full.

[Steve The Cynic.3217]

> @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> The beetle needs to start with a full endurance bar, it's ridiculously clunky to use as-is (and is only really good on long stretches of flat land to begin with, since it maneuvers about as well as you'd expect a rocket-powered motorcycle to).

 

Drifting makes it much more manoeuvrable, but it remains a teeny tiny bit (accompanying gesture: arms out wide) imprecise. I'm getting better at the timing necessary to make it work, though.

 

And dear God, it gets some BIG air, even without all the masteries trained.

[Ayakaru.6583]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > The raptor, compared, has mediocre speed constantly. The beetle has low speed at first, but can then burst.

> >

> > Obviously the intended design is that raptors are meant for medium distances, and beetles for long distances

>

> The raptor can jump. Why do people who are fine with the beetle always gloss over this very obvious difference between these two mounts? This is an important distinction when speaking of overlap between these two mounts as the beetle can only travel over very flat ground with few obstacles. The raptor has no such limitation. To ignore this fact is to suggest that the beetle would overlap the raptor in many cases where it clearly would not.

 

Of course the raptor can jump

But when crossing plains there's not a lot of jumping going on

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

The endurance should regen much faster at all times and even faster when you aren't moving.

[MarshallLaw.9260]

IMO, no need to buff.

The top speed of the mount is ridiculous compared to all other mounts so the build-up time and slightly worse handling/maneuverability is warranted. If devs were to make it full endurance on mount-up, it would begin to make other mounts almost obsolete because it would become OP.

Imagine the scenario, you're running from some mobs, you can either use jackal to tele a short distance away or raptor to leap. If you had full endurance on beetle, you mount up, press 1 key and are immediately boosted 1/4 of the map away (providing there is no obstacle collision). The slower endurance regen is also the drawback which encourages more intuitive play, rather than mashing the boost button.

 

**TLDR: Beetle has massive speed advantages over other mounts so it also needs to retain some drawbacks to remain more-or-less balanced**

[Glider.5792]

I think that endurance could work as "fuel" similar to the "nitro" or whatever its called (i honestly dont know) in alot of racing games (like Need for speed).

When you hold space or whichever key is set to "boost" you would use "nitro", but not all instantly, the longer you hold it, the more endurance you spend and more extra speed the mount will get. This way the person could either use it all at once, or use it in small portions to get smaller speed boosts.

 

Basicaly it would be as stepping on the gas pedal in the car. When your endurance reaches 0 you can no longer use it untill you get more again.

[Eme.2018]

If I were to change something, I would make so that drifting refills some portion of the endurance.

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"MarshallLaw.9260" said:

> IMO, no need to buff.

> The top speed of the mount is ridiculous compared to all other mounts so the build-up time and slightly worse handling/maneuverability is warranted. If devs were to make it full endurance on mount-up, it would begin to make other mounts almost obsolete because it would become OP.

> Imagine the scenario, you're running from some mobs, you can either use jackal to tele a short distance away or raptor to leap. If you had full endurance on beetle, you mount up, press 1 key and are immediately boosted 1/4 of the map away (providing there is no obstacle collision). The slower endurance regen is also the drawback which encourages more intuitive play, rather than mashing the boost button.

>

> **TLDR: Beetle has massive speed advantages over other mounts so it also needs to retain some drawbacks to remain more-or-less balanced**

 

But that shouldn't undermine how it needs some basic utility beyond a very narrow niche. The other mounts can fill some pretty broad requirements in most terrain, but the beetle is the most hampered by basic map design. The most telling of this is how Kourna only "partially" built like race track... and the routes to the most important stops are obtuse, or cross obstacles that will stall most drivers, even when not at top speed. That main circuit should be as obvious as possible without even looking at the map layout in bird's eye, and just following a general direction.

 

Theres also a major route disconnect with the Inquest Lab meta, and this would had been the Ideal place to bee line to a specific target. Instead, its just faster and more reliable to WP back to Camp and take the portal there, then it is to take Skimmer or Griffon there in the right conditions for them. The beetle has the speed needed, but getting there requires Water skipping and a specific entry angle to hit enough land to not lose all your speed. With the time required to gain enough endurance for a speed boost, you've already overshot your window or are still getting into a position to roll into slopes to get you to your entry point. South cannon is too close to build endurance, the other cannons require too much switch back or the quick routes don't take to the right spots.

 

And keep in mind, the above is about a Map that was designed with the Beetle at least partially in mind. The other maps are gonna be much more hostile to the beetle, because they were largely designed to challenge mount navigation (with the exception of the Griffon, which was meant to break that). The Beetle's biggest problem in implementation is a zero margin for error, which destroys a proper learning curve. The routes are also patrolled, making resuming traversal even harder (and as best as I can tell, is meant to be a major hazard for other mounts to promote the beetle there). All of this basic QOL problem, learning curve, and harsh error punishment can be bought in line simply by having Endurance burn as either partial boosts (3 bars), or made into an energy system. The 3 bar implementation means you control smaller boosts at ideal times to accumulate high speed, while the gradual burn is less binary, but much higher utility at the lower end. Given the engine's behavior, the 3 bar system will be the most consistent on server performance (less wonky server loop). Theres also an option for an inbetween that mirrors Warrior Adrenaline, with 3 bars that consume all filled bars on activation, and scales the boost strength based on that amount. Scaling it non-linearly can retain the higher difficult for speed accumulation and maintenance, but still enable 1 bar to allow the player to quickly and reliably get underway.

 

Theres also the question of the Beetle's jump.... and whether it was intended to be part of the control system while rolling. Despite the tiny jump height, that does seem to be enough to clear "non-obstacle" edges/gaps in the terrain that the beetle seems to easily catch against. And since they didn't build in a minor height correction behavior, its pretty obvious small obstacles are meant to be a problem for it.

 

For the sake of usability, learning curve, and sanity, better control over the Beetle to allow for a proper mid-band speed would do a lot to make it more usable in general. Its not a question of getting up to high speed, but simply getting up to proper traversal speed in areas where the mount's special abilities shouldn't matter.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > > The raptor, compared, has mediocre speed constantly. The beetle has low speed at first, but can then burst.

> > >

> > > Obviously the intended design is that raptors are meant for medium distances, and beetles for long distances

> >

> > The raptor can jump. Why do people who are fine with the beetle always gloss over this very obvious difference between these two mounts? This is an important distinction when speaking of overlap between these two mounts as the beetle can only travel over very flat ground with few obstacles. The raptor has no such limitation. To ignore this fact is to suggest that the beetle would overlap the raptor in many cases where it clearly would not.

>

> Of course the raptor can jump

> But when crossing plains there's not a lot of jumping going on

 

So, why does the beetle need to wait 15 seconds before it can be the best option on terrain that is favorable to it? That was rather my point.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"MarshallLaw.9260" said:

> IMO, no need to buff.

> The top speed of the mount is ridiculous compared to all other mounts so the build-up time and slightly worse handling/maneuverability is warranted. If devs were to make it full endurance on mount-up, it would begin to make other mounts almost obsolete because it would become OP.

> Imagine the scenario, you're running from some mobs, you can either use jackal to tele a short distance away or raptor to leap. If you had full endurance on beetle, you mount up, press 1 key and are immediately boosted 1/4 of the map away (providing there is no obstacle collision). The slower endurance regen is also the drawback which encourages more intuitive play, rather than mashing the boost button.

>

> **TLDR: Beetle has massive speed advantages over other mounts so it also needs to retain some drawbacks to remain more-or-less balanced**

 

I'm imagining...but if you're being chased and you aren't in combat, it doesn't matter which mount you choose because they will all escape easily. If you're already in combat then it's a moot point because you can't mount in combat.

 

 

[ReaverKane.7598]

I think beetle was a bit hit-or miss, and they could have done a bit of a better job...

The third Mastery could have been done differently. Tricks should be baseline. But without the regeneration.

Third mastery would be all about regenerating endurance. I'd change it to:

* Tricks and Drifting greatly increases endurance regeneration (same amount as currently tricks alone do).

* Moving at **max speed** improves regeneration slightly (i'd give it maybe half or 75% of tricks' regeneration)

* Destroying Volatile Crystals gives a fixed amount of Endurance (5%?).

 

For this last one to be pertinent, they would also need to scatter some of those crystals throughout the world map. Maybe have 3 kinds of these, one for unbound energy in HoT and Season 3 maps, and one for Karma in Core Maps.

 

They could also scatter them in set "courses", and add "beetle race" achievements that would simply be to collect all crystals in each map within a specific time. Could even make it an activity with a leader-board.

[sorudo.9054]

full charge and faster recharge, but no option for that is there.

[kraver.9318]

> @"Xenon.4537" said:

> The way the beetle is right now makes it a useless gimmick. The first endurance bar takes so long to build up that by the time it fills I could already be at my destination using any other mount. I don't actually have to cross an entire map when I'm doing map completion, I just need to get to the next spot a few hundred feet away. The beetle also runs the risk of massive slow-down if you hit an object or go up a hill. The jackal goes the same speed uphill, downhill, around 90 degree corners, etc. The jackal and raptor are simply superior for getting across large distances because they are more reliable, have their endurance full from the start, and agility to maneuver around obstacles. Even if the beetle started from full endurance, it would still be a niche mount because of it's lack of verticality, lack of maneuverability, and loss of speed when hitting obstacles.

 

Gave you a thumbs up - I couldn't agree more with this. The beetle is very fast once you use up your booster/endurance, but that's also part of the drawback as we have to watch for obstacles/walls/large gaps when going at that kind of speed. Waiting for the beetle's endurance bar to fill up after summon is very dull, boring, slow, and unsafe (when escaping mobs). A full endurance bar for the beetle wouldn't make raptors or jackals obsolete since its jump height is practically nonexistent...