Disappointment with Griffon Mechanics

[hallowedhearth.1592]

Being airborne has always been the most enjoyable part of games for me. I even built my system for it when Aion launched. I can't help but feel so underwhelmed and even disappointed with the mechanics of griffons. Speed diving and launching up is good fun...when it works and I don't get locked in a horizontal glide. I get wanting to keep it a challenge, but WoW pulled it off and even threw in a fun tutorial/race (Jade Forest). It just doesn't have that liberating feeling I enjoy so much and truly want. I'd love to have better systematic control (keys?) of airborne functionality.

[Haishao.6851]

By leaning forward, you can urge your griffon to dive

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"hallowedhearth.1592" said:

> Being airborne has always been the most enjoyable part of games for me. I even built my system for it when Aion launched. I can't help but feel so underwhelmed and even disappointed with the mechanics of griffons. Speed diving and launching up is good fun...when it works and I don't get locked in a horizontal glide. I get wanting to keep it a challenge, but WoW pulled it off and even threw in a fun tutorial/race (Jade Forest). It just doesn't have that liberating feeling I enjoy so much and truly want. I'd love to have better systematic control (keys?) of airborne functionality.

 

In fairness, WoW's mounts were never anything more than cosmetic speed boosts. In GW2, each mount has a unique feel and function. Simply making the entire system obsolete for the sake of convenience doesn't make sense.

 

 

[hallowedhearth.1592]

It's not about making them obsolete; it's about improving existing flight. But hey, one can dream. Add individual keybinds for speed dive, speed up, and why not a dodge? While I'm at it, griffons should fly. Free them through a quest line or talent tree. Perk: it'd be optional so folks who want to glide around wouldn't have to lose a thing and flight would open up the ability to make zones at high altitudes -- utilize more of the map. The final mastery or whatever could be a full on loop-de-loop. Can't say that wouldn't be fun! Go all the way with flight combat lol. Oooh pvp and wvw could be a whole new level of challenge. Seriously, I'd be happy with a few individual keybinds though instead of hitting dive + space bar + up.

[Dante.1763]

> @"hallowedhearth.1592" said:

> It's not about making them obsolete; it's about improving existing flight. But hey, one can dream. Add individual keybinds for speed dive, speed up, and why not a dodge? While I'm at it, griffons should fly. Free them through a quest line or talent tree. Perk: it'd be optional so folks who want to glide around wouldn't have to lose a thing and flight would open up the ability to make zones at high altitudes -- utilize more of the map. The final mastery or whatever could be a full on loop-de-loop. Can't say that wouldn't be fun! Go all the way with flight combat lol. Oooh pvp and wvw could be a whole new level of challenge. Seriously, I'd be happy with a few individual keybinds though instead of hitting dive + space bar + up.

 

They can do that now without making griffons actually fly, You can cross the entire map on a griffon as is without seeing combat if you can get to a high enough area to start off with, I dont think ANET wants people to avoid combat entirely. Also when they make maps at high altitudes(ecspecially if it has lower regions like the HoT maps) people are going to be pissed, the feedback anet got about the HoT maps is why PoF maps are all like the base games.

[Blocki.4931]

Flying is never going to happen in this game. It would break everything. and they would have to restrict movement in different ways. Not good

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"hallowedhearth.1592" said:

> Being airborne has always been the most enjoyable part of games for me. I even built my system for it when Aion launched. I can't help but feel so underwhelmed and even disappointed with the mechanics of griffons. Speed diving and launching up is good fun...when it works and I don't get locked in a horizontal glide. I get wanting to keep it a challenge, but WoW pulled it off and even threw in a fun tutorial/race (Jade Forest). It just doesn't have that liberating feeling I enjoy so much and truly want. I'd love to have better systematic control (keys?) of airborne functionality.

 

The same WoW mounts which developers were considering keeping completely unavailable for expansions until community backlash forced them to reconsider?

 

Complete air flight is a very tricky (and often bad) design decision. It makes a lot of content trivial and world building as a whole a lot harder. Even Blizzard was not able to pull it off and are now having to work with workarounds (mostly locking flight away until content has been completed) to balance their game experience.

 

Mounts in GW2 all serve a purpose and especially the griffon mount can be very useful if mastered. Check out some of the gold griffon mount races or self made races from players on youtube and you might get a glimpse of what an accomplished player can achieve. Trust me, that is way more satisfying then anything you'll ever do in WoW.

 

I doubt we will ever see a pure flying mount in GW2 and even if only in limited areas as part of some story or event (if at all).

[Danikat.8537]

If you want to dive (or drop down at least) without the speed boost you can put the back button and the griffon will drop gradually. You can resume flying at any point and you'll be going the same speed you always were.

[hallowedhearth.1592]

@"Cyninja.2954" Not any different than going through the whole chain to get the griffon. Players who can't access the content will always feel slighted. The vast majority of WoW players have mounts and Blizzard redesigned (as best they could) zones to add more flight capability. That's a win. Doing the same zones over and over also feels trivial. I've been here since launch and at 7 level 80's plus a few strays. Guess I'm reaching the point where it's not as engaging. For me, flight would add a new dimension and it's something I truly enjoy. I love the mounts, but there's room for growth.

[Pifil.5193]

Free flight has been a huge pain in the butt for the WoW developers since they added it, so much so that they introduce lengthy grinds to unlock it for expansions. Having players skip past entire areas to just drop directly onto quest objectives and mobs trivialises content.

 

I'm personally kinda surprised that our mounts are so flexible and allow us to bypass terrain so easily. Especially the springer.

[hallowedhearth.1592]

I already do bypass areas because (1) my time is limited and (2) I'm burnt out on them. Obtaining flight should be a grind so newer players immerse themselves in base content. Aside from the point of this thread (functionality), adding full flight is just the next level after gliding and cruising ley lines. The devs did a fantastic job with Auric Basin et al. New zones with flight would be a nice change of pace. Not saying it's a popular notion, but it would give the game a nice spark for me.

[Algreg.3629]

this is one thing i would like to have, but know it is better I don`t get it.

[Haishao.6851]

> @"hallowedhearth.1592" said:

> Seriously, I'd be happy with a few individual keybinds though instead of hitting dive + space bar + up.

 

They are individual keys already.

V to dive, Space Bar to flap wings and gain speed when diving, S to raise back up

3 individual keys with each their own purpose.

[Balsa.3951]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> Flying is never going to happen in this game. It would break everything. and they would have to restrict movement in different ways. Not good

 

Never and no and beat a dead horse is what ppl said long before the game got mounts....

 

 

[Danikat.8537]

I assume at some point there will be a story mission where we fly on Aurene (because it would be illogical, to me, to have a friendly dragon who uses the same model as the griffon and not let us fly her) and I'm hoping that will be a massive map where we can fly freely, since it's a story instance they can balance it specifically around that and it won't affect the rest of the game.

 

But I can't see them ever letting us fly freely in normal maps.

 

> @"Pifil.5193" said:

> Free flight has been a huge pain in the butt for the WoW developers since they added it, so much so that they introduce lengthy grinds to unlock it for expansions. Having players skip past entire areas to just drop directly onto quest objectives and mobs trivialises content.

>

> I'm personally kinda surprised that our mounts are so flexible and allow us to bypass terrain so easily. Especially the springer.

 

Out of curiosity why don't they add 'anti-aircraft' enemies? Warcraft 2 had units which had a big advantage over flying units (mainly archers and archery towers) surely they could do something similar in WoW - add enemies to areas they don't want you flying over who make it extremely dangerous to try and fly past without fighting.

[Klipso.8653]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> I assume at some point there will be a story mission where we fly on Aurene (because it would be illogical, to me, to have a friendly dragon who uses the same model as the griffon and not let us fly her) and I'm hoping that will be a massive map where we can fly freely, since it's a story instance they can balance it specifically around that and it won't affect the rest of the game.

>

> But I can't see them ever letting us fly freely in normal maps.

>

> > @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > Free flight has been a huge pain in the butt for the WoW developers since they added it, so much so that they introduce lengthy grinds to unlock it for expansions. Having players skip past entire areas to just drop directly onto quest objectives and mobs trivialises content.

> >

> > I'm personally kinda surprised that our mounts are so flexible and allow us to bypass terrain so easily. Especially the springer.

>

> Out of curiosity why don't they add 'anti-aircraft' enemies? Warcraft 2 had units which had a big advantage over flying units (mainly archers and archery towers) surely they could do something similar in WoW - add enemies to areas they don't want you flying over who make it extremely dangerous to try and fly past without fighting.

 

They do, enemy city and outpost guards can pretty much 1 shot you off the mount in the air

[Ashabhi.1365]

Sadly, full flight would negate tons of content, so I don't see it happening. I do see us riding on Aurene as part of a story, but I don't see her being a mount choice. Of course, that is all assuming that she's not permanently touched from eating Joko.

 

Unfortunately, this whole thread is sounding more like yet another post about [insert Game] has [feature] and we should have it too. Sorry, but in this case, my advice would be to go play [insert Game.]

[Rabbi Rick.3194]

> @"hallowedhearth.1592" said:

> It's not about making them obsolete; it's about improving existing flight. But hey, one can dream. Add individual keybinds for speed dive, speed up, and why not a dodge? While I'm at it, griffons should fly. Free them through a quest line or talent tree. Perk: it'd be optional so folks who want to glide around wouldn't have to lose a thing and flight would open up the ability to make zones at high altitudes -- utilize more of the map. The final mastery or whatever could be a full on loop-de-loop. Can't say that wouldn't be fun! Go all the way with flight combat lol. Oooh pvp and wvw could be a whole new level of challenge. Seriously, I'd be happy with a few individual keybinds though instead of hitting dive + space bar + up.

 

There are individual keybinds for the dive and climb function (without using the back keys) Look in your keybind section under mount action 1 and 2.

 

 

[zealex.9410]

What did wow nail? U just float there, its boring and uninteresting.

 

Anet and other devs have seen the downsides to flying in wow and decided they dont want that.

[Pifil.5193]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> I assume at some point there will be a story mission where we fly on Aurene (because it would be illogical, to me, to have a friendly dragon who uses the same model as the griffon and not let us fly her) and I'm hoping that will be a massive map where we can fly freely, since it's a story instance they can balance it specifically around that and it won't affect the rest of the game.

>

> But I can't see them ever letting us fly freely in normal maps.

>

> > @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > Free flight has been a huge pain in the butt for the WoW developers since they added it, so much so that they introduce lengthy grinds to unlock it for expansions. Having players skip past entire areas to just drop directly onto quest objectives and mobs trivialises content.

> >

> > I'm personally kinda surprised that our mounts are so flexible and allow us to bypass terrain so easily. Especially the springer.

>

> Out of curiosity why don't they add 'anti-aircraft' enemies? Warcraft 2 had units which had a big advantage over flying units (mainly archers and archery towers) surely they could do something similar in WoW - add enemies to areas they don't want you flying over who make it extremely dangerous to try and fly past without fighting.

 

As Klipso said they have done that where it makes sense, normally to defend your bases against enemy players (and vice versa).

 

However, the problem is that it trivialises much of the quest content in the game. For example, imagine you have a quest to find a messenger killed by demons while carrying vital information, so you ride out from your base, following twisting paths through narrow ravines, searching for him, having to fight your way through groups of demon or avoiding their patrols until you find the body and retrieve the message, then you have to fight your way back to the base.

 

Or you fly in a straight line over the terrain and the demons, drop down on the corpse, loot it and then fly straight back.

 

If nothing else you churn through quests at a huge rate.

[Liewec.2896]

i think it'd be good if they removed the ceiling on gaining altitude through careful and controlled dives and flaps.

you can gain height, but they've put a cap on how much (about 20m if i had to guess),

no matter how well you fly you'll never gain more than this artificial ceiling.

[hallowedhearth.1592]

Or have more airborne, hostile NPCs just like terrestrial combat with quests in elevated regions. Trivializing content matters for those who haven't done it over and over again. It feels trivial to bash my way through a level 10 zone for the umpteenth time. I've done the entire map, masteries, every JP, PvP/WvW, grinded out legendaries, etc. It's lost its novelty and flight seems like an open direction to move in. End-game needs to stay fresh and give us something to look forward to.

[Algreg.3629]

> @"hallowedhearth.1592" said:

> Or have more airborne, hostile NPCs just like terrestrial combat with quests in elevated regions. Trivializing content matters for those who haven't done it over and over again. It feels trivial to bash my way through a level 10 zone for the umpteenth time. I've done the entire map, masteries, every JP, PvP/WvW, grinded out legendaries, etc. It's lost its novelty and flight seems like an open direction to move in. End-game needs to stay fresh and give us something to look forward to.

 

If you want to bypass those maps, so don't play them. Or are you looking for a specific reward there, like another world completion? So why would devs make things easier for you as compared to people without wings? What does this have to do with endgame at all? Is your endgame bypassing lower level areas by flight?

[Pifil.5193]

> @"hallowedhearth.1592" said:

> Or have more airborne, hostile NPCs just like terrestrial combat with quests in elevated regions. Trivializing content matters for those who haven't done it over and over again. It feels trivial to bash my way through a level 10 zone for the umpteenth time. I've done the entire map, masteries, every JP, PvP/WvW, grinded out legendaries, etc. It's lost its novelty and flight seems like an open direction to move in. End-game needs to stay fresh and give us something to look forward to.

 

I don't see how it has anything to do with the "end-game" at all but I think you're missing the point, it trivialises all _future_ content as well as all old content.

[Kelly.7019]

they need to put dive, pullup, on the ui and maybe other things and not leave it to the person to figure out there are special keys. Sadly i only discovered in Kourna that Holding the space bar while diving gave you a super speed dive and i wasn't the only one that found this out for the first time. I know its the space bar mechanic for all the mounts. but for all the mounts this has been a discovery process. If they had been listed on the ui it would have been much easier.