Why Lock new weapon quests behind crafting?

[KjPOPsicle.3058]

I can relate to this. As a new player, exploring all of Tyria plus expacs and living world is really first priority for most. I managaed to max my two crafting and it took 5 gold to lvl one to 400 but it took 100 gold to get to 500. My bf couldn't reach 500 due to time constraints. He sent me all the materials to craft the first parts of this quest but sadly, the items are acc bond.

 

I read comments saying that there are also alot of items you need to work towards to earn. This is true, obviously the game would be hella boring with no challenge and reward; but I think the only reason I'm questioning this need for a lvl 500 in crafting is... the value behind what we are getting. I read the notice about these quests for new weapons/skins. I don't know if it's an actually weapon with exotic or ascended stats or if it's just a skin. Leveling to 500 in a crafting allows you to craft high tier gear. So I was wondering why the need to make it as valuable as a high tier item. (This is just a questioning, I actually don't know how valuable the items are, please elaborate kindly if you can).

 

However, Anet, from what I've seen, strives to make it's players happy and so far I have never seen them exploit players for money, like most game companies. They seem to genuinely want it's players to have access to a great game experience without putting the money they earn first and foremost (most likely cause they already have a steady balance of cash from the game thus far, I never played it when it just releasesed so this is my perspective from my time here). The fact that these weapon/skins are available through quests and not the gem store, is incredible. This need to raise the chances of acquiring the weapons is maybe a way to balance it's worth. So it must be a pretty good set of weapons/skins.

OR maybe they just assumed everyone had lvl 500 crafting and might just bring it down to something for a lvl 400 to craft instead.

Only time would tell.

 

(still though, I'm helping my bf get his shit together and craft up to 500 at this moment cause he still needs this lvl 500 later in life regardless)

 

Lastly, I believe if anyone needs help crafting effeciently, the gw2 crafts page is pretty accurate and extremely helpful. I'm 100% sure some veteran guildees would help you gather resources or just give you some spare if you need it too. Most people are really nice and like assisting. So I recommend you try to level that crafting if you want these rewards cause we don't know if they will do anything about the lvl 500 crafting pre-requisite.

 

[Kanok.3027]

Well, while you all argue about this, the rest of us are going to enjoy this shiny new content. So easy to do, too.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

>

> I think there is nothing to reconsider ... it's ridiculous to complain if something you want is behind content you don't like. I mean, that's almost TYPICAL in most cases.

 

Many of the changes ANet has made to the game over the years have addressed many complaints about the game. Perhaps ANet doesn't think such complaints are ridiculous. For instance, they've put PvE reward tracks into WvW/sPvP specifically because players in those modes wanted access to those rewards without having to do PvE. If the idea was ridiculous, the game would not have those reward tracks.

 

Oh, and what I asked you to reconsider has nothing to do with the rationale you (presumably) used meant to explain why there was nothing for you to reconsider.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> >

> > I think there is nothing to reconsider ... it's ridiculous to complain if something you want is behind content you don't like. I mean, that's almost TYPICAL in most cases.

>

> Many of the changes ANet has made to the game over the years have addressed many complaints about the game. Perhaps ANet doesn't think such complaints are ridiculous. For instance, they've put PvE reward tracks into WvW/sPvP specifically because players in those modes wanted access to those rewards without having to do PvE. If the idea was ridiculous, the game would not have those reward tracks.

>

> Oh, and what I asked you to reconsider has nothing to do with the rationale you (presumably) used meant to explain why there was nothing for you to reconsider.

 

Yet I still see things I want locked behind things I don't want to do. The fact is clear; it IS ridiculous to complain about such a thing because it's the nature of an MMO. You can't cater to every player who wants whatever they want, however they want to get it. It's not Burger King.

[Dreamy Lu.3865]

I have a different opinion than OP. Crafting is an essential part of the game. True, it is quite an effort to level it up, but we are supposed to do it to be able to craft our higher level equipment. Crafting is one of the basic game mechanics.

That players don't want to do it is OK, but soon or later, it has consequences: The 3 weapons of that collection are an example. They are high tier weapons and at the top of it special in term of design. Like any high tier weapons, they cost something, both in term of gold and efforts. That's logic.

 

I may see it wrong, but it seems to me that nowadays, many players want that everything to go fast with less possible efforts. They want to be straight 80 and get highest level equipment immediately. Why not? I have nothing against that. But fact is that it creates a conflict between the way they want to play and what GW2 is for a game: A RPG.

We are supposed to discover the world, grow up, gaining experience, building up material, levelling up crafting disciplines, earning more and more gold as we progress, via stories, via exploring, via events all types, and so on... And thanks to doing all that, with time, we reach a step where highest tier equipment become easier to get, because we have all what it needs, as a sort of logic reward for the efforts we invested over time.

It is OK that players want to cut through all that to go faster with less efforts, but they should understand that it goes against the basic concept of the game and of course, that soon or later, it will lead to some bad surprises, like with this collection where crafting is required.

 

Sorry, that's my view of it. But I understand that others think different. :3

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Dreamy Lu.3865" said:

> I have a different opinion than OP. Crafting is an essential part of the game. True, it is quite an effort to level it up, but we are supposed to do it to be able to craft our higher level equipment. Crafting is one of the basic game mechanics.

> That players don't want to do it is OK, but soon or later, it has consequences: The 3 weapons of that collection are an example. They are high tier weapons and at the top of it special in term of design. Like any high tier weapons, they cost something, both in term of gold and efforts. That's logic.

>

> I may see it wrong, but it seems to me that nowadays, many players want that everything to go fast with less possible efforts. They want to be straight 80 and get highest level equipment immediately. Why not? I have nothing against that. But fact is that it creates a conflict between the way they want to play and what GW2 is for a game: A RPG.

> We are supposed to discover the world, grow up, gaining experience, building up material, levelling up crafting disciplines, earning more and more gold as we progress, via stories, via exploring, via events all types, and so on... And thanks to doing all that, with time, we reach a step where highest tier equipment become easier to get, because we have all what it needs, as a sort of logic reward for the efforts we invested over time.

> It is OK that players want to cut through all that to go faster with less efforts, but they should understand that it goes against the basic concept of the game and of course, that soon or later, it will lead to some bad surprises, like with this collection where crafting is required.

>

> Sorry, that's my view of it. But I understand that others think different. :3

 

Not wanting to stand around crafting instead of actually engaging with (potentially challenging) content is not seeking to get everything faster and for less effort. From what a number of posters have claimed crafting is the easier, less effort, faster means of aqcuiring things. It is the proponents of crafting that seem to desire low effort fast access to the items.

[Mazreal Blackknight.1564]

Crafting is a key part of the game unless you plan to hope and pray you will get all of your ascended items dropped. Crafting also helps with legendary items, so both top tier. Don't wanna craft sit and wait and you don't get all the nice shiny skins the game has to offer. I wanted legendary armor but I don't like to PvP that leaves me with the option os WvW and PvE raids so I do those. I won't have the very lovely skins that are in PvP but I have to be ok with that because I do not prefer PvP. Same goes here...

[Hevoskuuri.3891]

Crafting is an essential part of the game indeed, but I fully root for GW2's ability to be played exactly as one wants to. If they don't want to do crafting then they don't have to, but that means some rewards are locked for those.

 

As for this collection, I think Anet's decision to use lesser vision crystals was really smart. Those who craft can craft them, and those who don't can get them from collections spending a few gold in the TP. I don't really see what all the fuss is about.

[Rasimir.6239]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> The thing is, if you're fighting a boss and get a drop, the fight -- if challenging or enlivening -- has the potential to change your body chemistry in ways that people experience as fun. That's why we see so many complaints about GW2 encounters lacking fun -- because for those players the fights aren't generating that experience.

>

> If the fight has that element, though, it adds something to game-play. Add in the anticipation of reward and the excitement of getting a reward, and encounter content has the potential that both the process and outcome generate entertainment. Crafting, on the other hand, lacks on the process side -- unless one finds the guesswork in discovery sufficiently challenging to stimulate the brain. I'd argue that it doesn't, but, again, ommv. It certainly doesn't if one follows a guide.

A couple of years ago we went on a family vacation to a tropical island. The husband went snorkling and canoeing. The kids went swimming (and snorkling with their dad, too). Lots of activities going on all around. Myself, I sat on a comfortable chair, enjoyed the sun and the island climate, and was knitting a couple of pairs of woolen socks. And guess what? I enjoyed myself imensely, and definitely more so than I would have if I had spent all my vacations exclusively doing some of the other activities mentioned.

 

Crafting in this game (and similar ones I have played at one time or another) is a lot like this for me. There are times for challenging and intense boss fights, but there are also times when my fun comes from putting together materials I have gathered into something I enjoy. The feeling isn't really all that different whether it's a pair of socks (and no, I certainly didn't need a pair of thick woolen socks in the tropics ;) ) or a pretty new weapon skin that I enjoy seeing on one of my MMO characters.

 

I get that not everyone enjoys crafting, no matter if real or virtual. I get that there's people like me who like to spend an hour or two crotcheting a new cap, and that there's other people who prefer to buy said cap so they can spend that extra hour outside in the winter snow while keeping their head warm. But that doesn't make crafting any less enjoyable or relevant.

 

What's busywork for some is fun for others. Personally, I detest most world boss events, and rarely do any until I positively stumble upon them by accident. There's a lot of world boss events I participated in, despite not enjoying them, just so I could craft my Nevermore, or unlock my roller beetle mount, or get my inquest golem backpack (my golemancer asura absolutely HAD to get that one ;) ). I might not enjoy the journey as much as I would've if those unlocks would've been different (like the flowers I had to collect on the way to crafting the Leaf of Kudzu - one of my favourite collections), but I did them because I apprecitate that not every unlock for every skin consists of only my favourite content (and if they did, I'd have probably gotten tired of it long ago ;) ).

 

Crafting is just one of many possible activities in this game that are moderately sprinkled across different collections, and it is far from being the most difficult to overcome. Cutting crafting out of collections completely actually only serves to reduce the variety of activities to do in this game, just like cutting world bosses or fractals or whatever else out of it. If you don't like to craft for whatever reason that's unfortunate for you, but declaring it "lesser" or even "no" content just because you don't find it fun doesn't make it so.

[OrbitalButt.5708]

These "it's too hard" people would drop a doody if they had to attempt the epic weapon quests in EverQuest

 

Kids these days, I swear

[Voltekka.2375]

1. Get guild craft bonus, Item craft boosters bonus, productive downtime (mastery of Tyria) bonus. Those should give you an 80% critical craft chance. (if memory serves and your guild is maxed)

2. Go to gw2crafts and check out what to buy, at the crafting discipline you need. Armorsmithing, with a 80%critchance, should cost you about 35g to get to 500, assuming you have ZERO materials. It is 50g if you have 0% critchance at crafting.

 

It is really easy to max crafting. And cheap. 30-40 g are doable in 10 days if you do Teq and dailies for 10 days...

[Moonyeti.3296]

> @"Zedek.8932" said:

> > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > You know

> > This reasoning can be a damper on any content

> > "Why do i have to put in effort to get just about anything?"

>

> The problem to me is that I do wish to play GuildWars2, not MineCraft or Harvest Moon.

> That's like saying in real life: If you want a house, you need to master all the different professions that requires them. You better start your plumber career today, becasuse you need to be architect later...

>

> I am also strongly against crafting as a gating feature in every MMO.

>

> In FF14 for example, to get my Stardust upgraded, I did not learn to craft. I needed to fight. The reason why I play this instead of a collecting/farming simulation.

>

> Excelsior.

 

You want to play GW2? Great! One of the main features of this game is that player crafting makes the best stuff, so it is a core mechanic of the game. So by crafting, you are playing GW2. Problem solved. Or if FF14 is the better way for you, more good news! FF14 is still doing great! You can play that game still!

[Dami.5046]

People always moan about the crafting in this game. At least there is no RNG on what you get at the end in this game. If you craft an ascended Great sword you will get one , not a exotic that means it didn't proc and you have to re-do.

The first thing I did after level 80 was level my crafts and my second account is half way doing it again.

Crafting is useful and takes next to no time if you use a guide, you just need some gold.

If anything I wish my nevermore wasn't locked behind a fractual, but hey I can craft my meta stuff.

Can only rejoice at that.

 

[Teratus.2859]

I don't understand why anyone wouldn't level up the crafting diciplines..

 

They're a great source of exp for leveling up characters, they give many skins for both armor and weapons, essential for some collections and legendary gear, easy way to keep your gear upto scratch as you level.

 

Imo ignoring the crafting system will hurt your Gw2 experience in the long run.. specially if your goal is to collect as much as possible or attain end game gear and legendary stuff.

[zealex.9410]

Isnt there an achievement or something that rewards the item needed?

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Teratus.2859" said:

> I don't understand why anyone wouldn't level up the crafting diciplines..

>

> They're a great source of exp for leveling up characters, they give many skins for both armor and weapons, essential for some collections and legendary gear, easy way to keep your gear upto scratch as you level.

>

> Imo ignoring the crafting system will hurt your Gw2 experience in the long run.. specially if your goal is to collect as much as possible or attain end game gear and legendary stuff.

 

I suppose that it is a matter of perspective. Engaging in crafting makes any play session completely unenjoyable for me. I have limited play time. Actively attempting to ruin that limited time seems like a bad idea.

[keenedge.9675]

If you ask about crafting in map chat, decent people will point out to use a leveling guide. I have my favorite that I rely on.

 

Getting the griffon was far more expensive and time-consuming than leveling ALL crafting.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > >

> > > I think there is nothing to reconsider ... it's ridiculous to complain if something you want is behind content you don't like. I mean, that's almost TYPICAL in most cases.

> >

> > Many of the changes ANet has made to the game over the years have addressed many complaints about the game. Perhaps ANet doesn't think such complaints are ridiculous. For instance, they've put PvE reward tracks into WvW/sPvP specifically because players in those modes wanted access to those rewards without having to do PvE. If the idea was ridiculous, the game would not have those reward tracks.

> >

> > Oh, and what I asked you to reconsider has nothing to do with the rationale you (presumably) used meant to explain why there was nothing for you to reconsider.

>

> Yet I still see things I want locked behind things I don't want to do. The fact is clear; it IS ridiculous to complain about such a thing because it's the nature of an MMO. You can't cater to every player who wants whatever they want, however they want to get it. It's not Burger King.

 

Let's be clear about one thing. I don't expect crafting requirements to go away. Crafting is about the only thing keeping the economy at an equilibrium where the mats salvaged or obtained from "rewards" are the only thing worthwhile about 95% of the game's rewards. That's too steep a hill for ANet to climb.

 

That said, it's ridiculous to say that it is ridiculous to complain about item requirements when people have done so and ANet has changed the way items have been gained.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Rasimir.6239" said:

> A couple of years ago we went on a family vacation to a tropical island. The husband went snorkling and canoeing. The kids went swimming (and snorkling with their dad, too). Lots of activities going on all around. Myself, I sat on a comfortable chair, enjoyed the sun and the island climate, and was knitting a couple of pairs of woolen socks. And guess what? I enjoyed myself imensely, and definitely more so than I would have if I had spent all my vacations exclusively doing some of the other activities mentioned.

>

> ... snip ...

>

> Crafting is just one of many possible activities in this game that are moderately sprinkled across different collections, and it is far from being the most difficult to overcome. Cutting crafting out of collections completely actually only serves to reduce the variety of activities to do in this game, just like cutting world bosses or fractals or whatever else out of it. If you don't like to craft for whatever reason that's unfortunate for you, but declaring it "lesser" or even "no" content just because you don't find it fun doesn't make it so.

 

Excellent points. There clearly seem to be players who like crafting. Others like things that provide a more active experience. Different people do want different things from games. I wonder whether the kids would have enjoyed knitting as a primary activity on that vacation.

 

As far as crafting versus challenging game-play, there are demonstrable changes in body chemistry when players face a challenge that are very different than those produced by relaxing activities. As I said above, I am defining content as something that stimulates rather than relaxes. While I don't doubt others use a broader definition, this is merely to make a point. If it helps, delete the references to "content" and substitute "game activity which requires a very active play style" versus "game activity which allows for a more relaxed play style." In retrospect, that would have been a more neutral presentation.

 

The thing is, the OP made a point that is overlooked. It would be possible to keep crafting as an activity for those who actually like it while also enabling players who don't to avoid what they find to be terminal boredom. ANet didn't do that. They made almost all of the desirable items crafting provides Account Bound. Had they not done so, crafters could sell those things to the people who don't craft and everyone could get what they want.

 

So, why didn't they? I can see two reasons. The first is a belief that the economy would benefit more if everyone had to craft to get a large number of rewards. The second is because they wanted players to craft as a time sink. I believe that if they dropped Account Bound crafting, but kept inserting crafted items for collections, the impact on the economy would be small, with some benefit to both crafters (gold for their efforts) and non-crafters. While I understand the need for time-sinks in MMO's, I personally believe that this one is rather heavy-handed. With some effort on the design end, it should have been possible to allow players to buy crafted collection requirements and the like without significantly lowering their time in game. Still, I don't expect things to change at this late date. The ship has sailed, made its voyage and arrived at its destination a long time ago. So this is more of a what-if discussion for me than a demand for change.

 

Thanks for engaging, and for offering a perspective I gave insufficient weight to.

[Zaklex.6308]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> >

> > I think there is nothing to reconsider ... it's ridiculous to complain if something you want is behind content you don't like. I mean, that's almost TYPICAL in most cases.

>

> Many of the changes ANet has made to the game over the years have addressed many complaints about the game. Perhaps ANet doesn't think such complaints are ridiculous. For instance, they've put PvE reward tracks into WvW/sPvP specifically because players in those modes wanted access to those rewards without having to do PvE. If the idea was ridiculous, the game would not have those reward tracks.

>

> Oh, and what I asked you to reconsider has nothing to do with the rationale you (presumably) used meant to explain why there was nothing for you to reconsider.

 

What about the opposite, those rewards only obtainable in PvP or WvW not being also possible to get in PvE, what's the difference. Either you do something you don't like, or you buckle down and get through it. Can't have it both ways, it's been the same response you get from many when people complain about the Raid rewards...if you want them bad enough you'll do the content, it just so happens to be that crafting is some of the content in GW2.

[Lunateric.3708]

You know you can get the lesser crystals just doing two collections that involve about 15g total, right?, with zero crafting involved.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > @"Rasimir.6239" said:

> > A couple of years ago we went on a family vacation to a tropical island. The husband went snorkling and canoeing. The kids went swimming (and snorkling with their dad, too). Lots of activities going on all around. Myself, I sat on a comfortable chair, enjoyed the sun and the island climate, and was knitting a couple of pairs of woolen socks. And guess what? I enjoyed myself imensely, and definitely more so than I would have if I had spent all my vacations exclusively doing some of the other activities mentioned.

> >

> > ... snip ...

> >

> > Crafting is just one of many possible activities in this game that are moderately sprinkled across different collections, and it is far from being the most difficult to overcome. Cutting crafting out of collections completely actually only serves to reduce the variety of activities to do in this game, just like cutting world bosses or fractals or whatever else out of it. If you don't like to craft for whatever reason that's unfortunate for you, but declaring it "lesser" or even "no" content just because you don't find it fun doesn't make it so.

>

> Excellent points. There clearly seem to be players who like crafting. Others like things that provide a more active experience. Different people do want different things from games. I wonder whether the kids would have enjoyed knitting as a primary activity on that vacation.

>

> As far as crafting versus challenging game-play, there are demonstrable changes in body chemistry when players face a challenge that are very different than those produced by relaxing activities. As I said above, I am defining content as something that stimulates rather than relaxes. While I don't doubt others use a broader definition, this is merely to make a point. If it helps, delete the references to "content" and substitute "game activity which requires a very active play style" versus "game activity which allows for a more relaxed play style." In retrospect, that would have been a more neutral presentation.

>

> The thing is, the OP made a point that is overlooked. It would be possible to keep crafting as an activity for those who actually like it while also enabling players who don't to avoid what they find to be terminal boredom. ANet didn't do that. They made almost all of the desirable items crafting provides Account Bound. Had they not done so, crafters could sell those things to the people who don't craft and everyone could get what they want.

>

> So, why didn't they? I can see two reasons. The first is a belief that the economy would benefit more if everyone had to craft to get a large number of rewards. The second is because they wanted players to craft as a time sink. I believe that if they dropped Account Bound crafting, but kept inserting crafted items for collections, the impact on the economy would be small, with some benefit to both crafters (gold for their efforts) and non-crafters. While I understand the need for time-sinks in MMO's, I personally believe that this one is rather heavy-handed. With some effort on the design end, it should have been possible to allow players to buy crafted collection requirements and the like without significantly lowering their time in game. Still, I don't expect things to change at this late date. The ship has sailed, made its voyage and arrived at its destination a long time ago. So this is more of a what-if discussion for me than a demand for change.

>

> Thanks for engaging, and for offering a perspective I gave insufficient weight to.

 

Except in this particular case, ArenaNet _did_ offer a non-crafting way to obtain the necessary item(s).

[RabbitUp.8294]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > I don't understand why anyone wouldn't level up the crafting diciplines..

> >

> > They're a great source of exp for leveling up characters, they give many skins for both armor and weapons, essential for some collections and legendary gear, easy way to keep your gear upto scratch as you level.

> >

> > Imo ignoring the crafting system will hurt your Gw2 experience in the long run.. specially if your goal is to collect as much as possible or attain end game gear and legendary stuff.

>

> I suppose that it is a matter of perspective. Engaging in crafting makes any play session completely unenjoyable for me. I have limited play time. Actively attempting to ruin that limited time seems like a bad idea.

 

I'm pretty sure you would have already finished maxing a craft in the time it took you to make this thread and respond to the replies.

 

And as it's been already said, you can pay some gold to get 2 lesser crystals from achievs.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"RabbitUp.8294" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > > I don't understand why anyone wouldn't level up the crafting diciplines..

> > >

> > > They're a great source of exp for leveling up characters, they give many skins for both armor and weapons, essential for some collections and legendary gear, easy way to keep your gear upto scratch as you level.

> > >

> > > Imo ignoring the crafting system will hurt your Gw2 experience in the long run.. specially if your goal is to collect as much as possible or attain end game gear and legendary stuff.

> >

> > I suppose that it is a matter of perspective. Engaging in crafting makes any play session completely unenjoyable for me. I have limited play time. Actively attempting to ruin that limited time seems like a bad idea.

>

> I'm pretty sure you would have already finished maxing a craft in the time it took you to make this thread and respond to the replies.

>

> And as it's been already said, you can pay some gold to get 2 lesser crystals from achievs.

 

I didnt make this thread.

 

I am 100% sure that I could not have leveled a craft in the time spent posting in this thread.

 

I will look into whichever achievement allows one to purhase the mats with gold.

[Etria.3642]

I am having a laugh at all the 'Against crafting' folks that are skipping past the over a dozen posts that explain how to get this WITHOUT crafting.