Fix Deadeye Stealth or get rid of Stealth Traps

[MUDse.7623]

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > what if stealth traps when activated created an area similar to the dh trap that pulsed reveal....?

> > >

> > > would that work?

> >

> > with similar reveal duration of the DH trap, sure :3

>

> I was thinking 1s reveals on pulse but the area being maybe 1000 range by 1000 range sort of deal, basically an effective area that will still allow counter play by porting or leaping out of the area if you were the stealth class and an open area to engage in if you were the one to drop the trap.

 

and pulses are dodgeable like DH ones or undodgeable like the actual trap?

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > > what if stealth traps when activated created an area similar to the dh trap that pulsed reveal....?

> > > >

> > > > would that work?

> > >

> > > with similar reveal duration of the DH trap, sure :3

> >

> > I was thinking 1s reveals on pulse but the area being maybe 1000 range by 1000 range sort of deal, basically an effective area that will still allow counter play by porting or leaping out of the area if you were the stealth class and an open area to engage in if you were the one to drop the trap.

>

> and pulses are dodgeable like DH ones or undodgeable like the actual trap?

 

Im thinking exactly like how the trap works, how it makes an aoe area a stealthless area.

 

im just makin ideas, I know anet probably wont do anything about but its fun to brainstorm anyway

[Aeolus.3615]

Give evasion on some stealth skills for 1, 2 seconds so thiefs dont get killed trough while stealthing in some skills (this would fix or transform into a possible counter mechanic the skills that keeps following and damage thief trough stlealth)

Give stealth stack system, base 3 -4 stack, each stack gets 1sec?

This way some Thief spec could even get more stealth stuff... would nto be that broken

Hit will remove stealth stack and make thief visible..

 

 

IMO the current steatlh system just lacks game validations and put some order/rules arround it.

**It feels like a incomplete job was done and comes from a alpha or beta game state.**

[Azynax.5176]

Shadow meld...your bane.

[Jaruselka.5943]

As mentioned earlier having a “reveal grenade” might be a good idea. Being able to completely disappear without any risk is a broken design. In lieu of that there should be more counters to it. This is coming from a Scrapper main who abuses the stealth gyro regularly!

[Turk.5460]

> @"Heibi.4251" said:

> Stealth Traps are virtually useless against a Deadeye. They are supposed to stop a target from going into stealth for 30 seconds. However, it seems a Deadeye is revealed and then goes right back into stealth, ignoring the effect the Stealth Trap is designed to do. What's the point of having a trap in WvW that is ignored by this broken stealth of the Deadeye? We had a Deadeye in a keep today and in past takes of keep that stayed in stealth almost permanently. And once they were revealed by the trap 1 second later they were gone for 15-30 seconds more. ANeT, please fix this and make the Deadeye's stealth not be able to overcome a game mechanic you created to counter stealthed targets in WvW.

 

What's the point in having a trap in WvW that effectively deletes an entire traitline from *one* profession only. How is that fair? What if there was a WvW trap that disabled say...Defense traitline from Warriors for 30 seconds?

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Arts

 

A neutral item, everyone can use, that is undodgeable. What other profession's traitline is decimated by a neutral item that anyone can use?

[Sleepwalker.1398]

> @"DeWolfe.2174" said:

> Shadow Meld needs to be removed from the game, its a bad design.

 

Every DE will kneel and die if that happens.

 

[DeWolfe.2174]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> > @"DeWolfe.2174" said:

> > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > Shadow traps need to pulse revealed.Boom fixed

> > >

> >

> > Most utility skills that apply reveal are useless as they are on a longer cool down than Shadow Meld. Shadow Meld is simply a bad design and needs to be removed. If a thief get's revealed it should have to fight or use it's excessive mobility to disengage.

>

> ? Shadow meld gets 2 charges, and has a 45s cooldown, and like a few ( one?) other stealth skills has a cast time as well.

> Can you list any skills that have a longer cooldown that reveal? I havent found any so I am curious what skill you are talking about?

 

wut? Except for a Warrior's "On my Mark" every other reveal skill has a longer CD than Shadow Meld's effectiveness.

[Solori.6025]

> @"DeWolfe.2174" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > @"DeWolfe.2174" said:

> > > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > > Shadow traps need to pulse revealed.Boom fixed

> > > >

> > >

> > > Most utility skills that apply reveal are useless as they are on a longer cool down than Shadow Meld. Shadow Meld is simply a bad design and needs to be removed. If a thief get's revealed it should have to fight or use it's excessive mobility to disengage.

> >

> > ? Shadow meld gets 2 charges, and has a 45s cooldown, and like a few ( one?) other stealth skills has a cast time as well.

> > Can you list any skills that have a longer cooldown that reveal? I havent found any so I am curious what skill you are talking about?

>

> wut? Except for a Warrior's "On my Mark" every other reveal skill has a longer CD than Shadow Meld's effectiveness.

 

.......How sure are you about on my mark?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/"On_My_Mark!"

[Heibi.4251]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > Stealth Traps are virtually useless against a Deadeye. They are supposed to stop a target from going into stealth for 30 seconds. However, it seems a Deadeye is revealed and then goes right back into stealth, ignoring the effect the Stealth Trap is designed to do. What's the point of having a trap in WvW that is ignored by this broken stealth of the Deadeye? We had a Deadeye in a keep today and in past takes of keep that stayed in stealth almost permanently. And once they were revealed by the trap 1 second later they were gone for 15-30 seconds more. ANeT, please fix this and make the Deadeye's stealth not be able to overcome a game mechanic you created to counter stealthed targets in WvW.

>

> What's the point in having a trap in WvW that effectively deletes an entire traitline from *one* profession only. How is that fair? What if there was a WvW trap that disabled say...Defense traitline from Warriors for 30 seconds?

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Arts

>

> A neutral item, everyone can use, that is undodgeable. What other profession's traitline is decimated by a neutral item that anyone can use?

 

The point being, ANET added the stealth traps specifically to overcome long stealthing targets, plus the traps existed long before the Deadeye. It was designed to over come stealth no matter what. They made it to aid in clearing keeps, areas and structures of perma-stealth players. But ANET broke it with the broken Deadeye "Shadow Meld".

 

And I'd love it if they made a trap that would get rid of a warrior's immortality for 30 seconds. I'm sure others would as well.

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > Stealth Traps are virtually useless against a Deadeye. They are supposed to stop a target from going into stealth for 30 seconds. However, it seems a Deadeye is revealed and then goes right back into stealth, ignoring the effect the Stealth Trap is designed to do. What's the point of having a trap in WvW that is ignored by this broken stealth of the Deadeye? We had a Deadeye in a keep today and in past takes of keep that stayed in stealth almost permanently. And once they were revealed by the trap 1 second later they were gone for 15-30 seconds more. ANeT, please fix this and make the Deadeye's stealth not be able to overcome a game mechanic you created to counter stealthed targets in WvW.

>

> What's the point in having a trap in WvW that effectively deletes an entire traitline from *one* profession only. How is that fair? What if there was a WvW trap that disabled say...Defense traitline from Warriors for 30 seconds?

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Arts

>

> A neutral item, everyone can use, that is undodgeable. What other profession's traitline is decimated by a neutral item that anyone can use?

 

I play weaver. How will i apply revealed on a deadeye? Oh wait, thats right, I cant! My WHOLE class gets effectively deleted because of ONE traitline. How do people even defend the broken stealth mechanics, this isnt even remotely balanced...

[Widmo.3186]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> Give evasion on some stealth skills for 1, 2 seconds so thiefs dont get killed trough while stealthing in some skills (this would fix or transform into a possible counter mechanic the skills that keeps following and damage thief trough stlealth)

> Give stealth stack system, base 3 -4 stack, each stack gets 1sec?

> This way some Thief spec could even get more stealth stuff... would nto be that broken

> Hit will remove stealth stack and make thief visible..

>

>

> IMO the current steatlh system just lacks game validations and put some order/rules arround it.

> **It feels like a incomplete job was done and comes from a alpha or beta game state.**

 

This is GW2,not WoW.Here you can simply spam 1 or other skills (like rapid fire,just before target goes into stealth and it still does full cast) without visible target.In WoW the only way you could hit and reveal rogue is using AoE,every class has access to it,but you need brain or luck to hit it properly (and that way the idea of "stack system" would work).Leave stealth abilities where they are,problem is abusing reveal cleanse.

[Eramonster.2718]

There is a way to keep stealthing repeatedly(in a rotation). With minimum penalty getting revealed(0.5-1second before re-entering stealth) after Death's Judgement. Good luck.

[Vornollo.5182]

> @"Heibi.4251" said:

> The point being, ANET added the stealth traps specifically to overcome long stealthing targets, plus the traps existed long before the Deadeye. It was designed to over come stealth no matter what. They made it to aid in clearing keeps, areas and structures of perma-stealth players. But ANET broke it with the broken Deadeye "Shadow Meld".

Actually, the traps are to counter the Stealth of Groups, rather than individuals. You know, that's why there's a **1200 radius reveal for 20 targets** upon activation and stuff. All these people making false claims on the forums...

 

Anyhow, on topic.

I think that there could be more than one "Revealed". There's some utilities in this game, such as said Stealth Disruptor and the Scrappers' Detection Pulse that should apply "Revealed" as we currently know it. But I also think that there could be something such as Veil Sight which would apply a new variant of Revealed.

Difference being that on one side we'd have AoE Reveals for **all** players, but another variant that applies "reveal" or "Veil Sight" for a **single** player.

This "Veil Sight" has had quite a bit of discussion lately (has been referred to mostly as "True Sight" instead though), it'd allow for more consistent Revealing, but based active play.

It'd occur when an attack is done from stealth, when some of the current utilities that apply revealed get used etc. But also when you'd attack a stealthed target in a certain way or something.

 

What I try to say here is that, instead of people being salty kittens about stealth and removing a profession/elite spec, how about looking for other more interesting options and/or solutions..?

[Turk.5460]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > Stealth Traps are virtually useless against a Deadeye. They are supposed to stop a target from going into stealth for 30 seconds. However, it seems a Deadeye is revealed and then goes right back into stealth, ignoring the effect the Stealth Trap is designed to do. What's the point of having a trap in WvW that is ignored by this broken stealth of the Deadeye? We had a Deadeye in a keep today and in past takes of keep that stayed in stealth almost permanently. And once they were revealed by the trap 1 second later they were gone for 15-30 seconds more. ANeT, please fix this and make the Deadeye's stealth not be able to overcome a game mechanic you created to counter stealthed targets in WvW.

> >

> > What's the point in having a trap in WvW that effectively deletes an entire traitline from *one* profession only. How is that fair? What if there was a WvW trap that disabled say...Defense traitline from Warriors for 30 seconds?

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Arts

> >

> > A neutral item, everyone can use, that is undodgeable. What other profession's traitline is decimated by a neutral item that anyone can use?

>

> I play weaver. How will i apply revealed on a deadeye? Oh wait, thats right, I cant! My WHOLE class gets effectively deleted because of ONE traitline. How do people even defend the broken stealth mechanics, this isnt even remotely balanced...

 

Weavers are not hard-countered by Shadow Arts, you need to either get better or change your strategy. Please stop with the hyperbole.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

> @"Shadowcat.2680" said:

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Meld is the skill responsible for the deadeye removing the reveal.

 

Ya this skill shouldn't even exist. This was one of Anet's worst skill additions. They need to take it off ammo and stick a 3-5 min cooldown on it.

[DemonSeed.3528]

> @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> > @"Shadowcat.2680" said:

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Meld is the skill responsible for the deadeye removing the reveal.

>

> Ya this skill shouldn't even exist. This was one of Anet's worst skill additions. They need to take it off ammo and stick a 3-5 min cooldown on it.

 

As long as other class pof elites get same cooldown treatment that's fine.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> > @"Shadowcat.2680" said:

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Meld is the skill responsible for the deadeye removing the reveal.

>

> Ya this skill shouldn't even exist. This was one of Anet's worst skill additions. They need to take it off ammo and stick a 3-5 min cooldown on it.

 

such a long cooldown improves your gameplay against a deadeye how? that just means if you scare them off you wont see them for a little longer. now picture you have a deadeye in your keep you want to get rid of, every time you scare him YOU need to wait 3-5mins for your next chance. sounds fun.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Widmo.3186" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > Give evasion on some stealth skills for 1, 2 seconds so thiefs dont get killed trough while stealthing in some skills (this would fix or transform into a possible counter mechanic the skills that keeps following and damage thief trough stlealth)

> > Give stealth stack system, base 3 -4 stack, each stack gets 1sec?

> > This way some Thief spec could even get more stealth stuff... would nto be that broken

> > Hit will remove stealth stack and make thief visible..

> >

> >

> > IMO the current steatlh system just lacks game validations and put some order/rules arround it.

> > **It feels like a incomplete job was done and comes from a alpha or beta game state.**

>

> This is GW2,not WoW.Here you can simply spam 1 or other skills (like rapid fire,just before target goes into stealth and it still does full cast) without visible target.In WoW the only way you could hit and reveal rogue is using AoE,every class has access to it,but you need brain or luck to hit it properly (and that way the idea of "stack system" would work).Leave stealth abilities where they are,problem is abusing reveal cleanse.

 

lol.. i only played wow, in beta and the and its initial days after release, i think it was with my batle.net account if im cacaling it well, i didnt even know how wow stealth worked before your comment xD

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

What if damage was reduced by like ~10 or 15% while they were stealthed (and when using DJ as that reveals you technically)? This way being a ghost sniper h inders you a bit...mobility/positioning vs damage.

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > Stealth Traps are virtually useless against a Deadeye. They are supposed to stop a target from going into stealth for 30 seconds. However, it seems a Deadeye is revealed and then goes right back into stealth, ignoring the effect the Stealth Trap is designed to do. What's the point of having a trap in WvW that is ignored by this broken stealth of the Deadeye? We had a Deadeye in a keep today and in past takes of keep that stayed in stealth almost permanently. And once they were revealed by the trap 1 second later they were gone for 15-30 seconds more. ANeT, please fix this and make the Deadeye's stealth not be able to overcome a game mechanic you created to counter stealthed targets in WvW.

> > >

> > > What's the point in having a trap in WvW that effectively deletes an entire traitline from *one* profession only. How is that fair? What if there was a WvW trap that disabled say...Defense traitline from Warriors for 30 seconds?

> > >

> > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Arts

> > >

> > > A neutral item, everyone can use, that is undodgeable. What other profession's traitline is decimated by a neutral item that anyone can use?

> >

> > I play weaver. How will i apply revealed on a deadeye? Oh wait, thats right, I cant! My WHOLE class gets effectively deleted because of ONE traitline. How do people even defend the broken stealth mechanics, this isnt even remotely balanced...

>

> Weavers are not hard-countered by Shadow Arts, you need to either get better or change your strategy. Please stop with the hyperbole.

 

And shadow arts arent countered by a trap which takes 4 secs to put down, can be reversed via elite skill, and needs 10 supply. What the hell.

And, no. The fact that weaver is not "hard countered" by shadow arts isnt a valid argument. But i guess people will defend broken stuff in this game cause it suits their playstyle.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> What if damage was reduced by like ~10 or 15% while they were stealthed (and when using DJ as that reveals you technically)? This way being a ghost sniper h inders you a bit...mobility/positioning vs damage.

 

would not change much in the encounter, maybe adds a little more TTK with the same outcome. also it already reduces your damage if you invest more into stealth. you could use other traits or skills and get more damage.

 

 

[Turk.5460]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > Stealth Traps are virtually useless against a Deadeye. They are supposed to stop a target from going into stealth for 30 seconds. However, it seems a Deadeye is revealed and then goes right back into stealth, ignoring the effect the Stealth Trap is designed to do. What's the point of having a trap in WvW that is ignored by this broken stealth of the Deadeye? We had a Deadeye in a keep today and in past takes of keep that stayed in stealth almost permanently. And once they were revealed by the trap 1 second later they were gone for 15-30 seconds more. ANeT, please fix this and make the Deadeye's stealth not be able to overcome a game mechanic you created to counter stealthed targets in WvW.

> > > >

> > > > What's the point in having a trap in WvW that effectively deletes an entire traitline from *one* profession only. How is that fair? What if there was a WvW trap that disabled say...Defense traitline from Warriors for 30 seconds?

> > > >

> > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Arts

> > > >

> > > > A neutral item, everyone can use, that is undodgeable. What other profession's traitline is decimated by a neutral item that anyone can use?

> > >

> > > I play weaver. How will i apply revealed on a deadeye? Oh wait, thats right, I cant! My WHOLE class gets effectively deleted because of ONE traitline. How do people even defend the broken stealth mechanics, this isnt even remotely balanced...

> >

> > Weavers are not hard-countered by Shadow Arts, you need to either get better or change your strategy. Please stop with the hyperbole.

>

> And shadow arts arent countered by a trap which takes 4 secs to put down, can be reversed via elite skill, and needs 10 supply. What the hell.

> And, no. The fact that weaver is not "hard countered" by shadow arts isnt a valid argument. But i guess people will defend broken stuff in this game cause it suits their playstyle.

 

Your logic is so backwards here it's funny. Yes. The trap does hard-counter Shadow Arts. Deadeye and subsequently Shadow Meld aren't required to be slotted. It's mind boggling that you are trying to find a way to disprove this argument. Every single trait in Shadow Arts that is viable requires stealth. ?????????? I can't put enough question marks here to display how ridiculous your argument sounds.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

Honestly revealed as a mechanic needs a rework. It's such a hard counter to stealth builds that nothing short of a reveal cleanse like shadow meld is necessary to make stealth builds even remotely viable with the number of reliable reveal skills in the game now. So if you want shadow meld to be changed then either reveal needs to change or SA needs to be radically reworked to fit with the current state of the game. Either that or we just keep adding reveal skills.

 

Things that people like to forget;

 

1) Daredevil can also permastealth, even without SA. Why is it now suddenly a problem?

2) One shot builds exist on multiple classes, usually with better passive defenses than thief meaning they are often not forced to camp their target for 30s waiting for the right moment to strike. Why should thief not be able to one shot if other classes can?

3) getting the first strike against an otherwise unaware opponent is not in and of itself OP, and multiple classes are capable of this.

[geist.9173]

Just rework the traps that they kill any target that steps on them while stealthed.