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Episode 4: A Star to Guide Us


Randulf.7614

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> @"Genesis.8572" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > I'm not disagreeing about whether the political future in Elona is a big deal. I'm saying that things that threaten the fabric of the universe (or at least the planet) take priority over politics. The game spent a little time mentioning clean up; _we_ didn't spend a lot of time doing it, so I personally am not surprised that the little we have learned about what happens next is focused on the big picture, not on tying up loose ends.

> WE are the thing that is threatening the fabric of the universe and not the Elder Dragons. We are the ones who are making a complete mess of the geopolitical landscape and the magical-ecological landscape. And so far we are not doing a good job of cleaning up either.

 

Actually, you might have noticed that Zhaitan was making a mess of the geopolitical & ecological landscape by, you know, destroying everything he could eat. I think it's hard to argue that Mordremoth's manipulation of half of an entire race is anything less than "making a complete mess" of the geopolitical landscape, not to mention ecological. As it turns out, we didn't make things better by killing the dragons, we just changed the nature (ahem) of the problem. But that underlying problem is still our primary target, not worrying about making nice with the peoples already devastated by what came before.

 

I'm sure there is an interesting game to be made about creating populist and viable governments in the wake of disasters, but this franchise has never been about that. It's always been about saving the world from an epic evil.

 

 

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> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> Actually, you might have noticed that Zhaitan was making a mess of the geopolitical & ecological landscape by, you know, destroying everything he could eat. I think it's hard to argue that Mordremoth's manipulation of half of an entire race is anything less than "making a complete mess" of the geopolitical landscape, not to mention ecological. As it turns out, we didn't make things better by killing the dragons, we just changed the nature (ahem) of the problem. But that underlying problem is still our primary target, not worrying about making nice with the peoples already devastated by what came before.

Actually you might have noticed, though apparently you have not, that the Elder Dragons are described as being necessary for the life cycle of Tyria and we royally messed that up after killing two of them and now Tyria's well-being lies on the brink of worldwide destruction on a level more significant than what the Elder Dragons were doing.

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> @"Fleebag.1384" said:

> Although I agree we as Commander messed up bad by acting on bad info, I don't see the Elder Dragons as necessary, only the function they provide is.

> So the problem/question is rather, how do we replace/modify that function to secure Tyria?

 

we already know this, "replace the elder dragons with creatures that share magic instead of hoard it." curtesy of the forgotten

 

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> @"derd.6413" said:

> > @"Fleebag.1384" said:

> > Although I agree we as Commander messed up bad by acting on bad info, I don't see the Elder Dragons as necessary, only the function they provide is.

> > So the problem/question is rather, how do we replace/modify that function to secure Tyria?

>

> we already know this, "replace the elder dragons with creatures that share magic instead of hoard it." curtesy of the forgotten

>

 

We know that we need to replace the Elder Dragons with creatures that share magic, but we don't know how to do it. The Elder Dragons are tied to the world via the All and we don't know the proccess on doing so. So just having Aurene getting enough magic to be as powerful as an Elder Dragon isn't gonna be enough.

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> @"Walhalla.5473" said:

> > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > @"Fleebag.1384" said:

> > > Although I agree we as Commander messed up bad by acting on bad info, I don't see the Elder Dragons as necessary, only the function they provide is.

> > > So the problem/question is rather, how do we replace/modify that function to secure Tyria?

> >

> > we already know this, "replace the elder dragons with creatures that share magic instead of hoard it." curtesy of the forgotten

> >

>

> We know that we need to replace the Elder Dragons with creatures that share magic, but we don't know how to do it. The Elder Dragons are tied to the world via the All and we don't know the proccess on doing so. So just having Aurene getting enough magic to be as powerful as an Elder Dragon isn't gonna be enough.

 

don't fret the details. we'll figure it out as we go

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Less flippantly, the line in the trailer is pretty much just affirming the basic approach. It's not saying "Let's go and kill Kralkatorrik now!", and it's probably not going to happen this episode coming. There could well be a few episodes, possibly even an entire season, of figuring out the details before we attempt a kill.

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I'm wondering how much the Jahai map will cover, and how Sun's Refuge fits into this. They added Jahai ad the Waterworks onto the map back during the episode 1 update, but Sun's Refuge is pretty far west of that. It would be kind of hard to try to fit all of that onto one map. Though, Sun's rfuge will likely end up being an "island" so to speak, with nothing directly touching it.

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> @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> Fingers crossed that people realise Balthazar was capable of absorbing dragon magic without noticeable corruption unlike other Tyria-bound creatures and the Gods have a history of sharing magic...

>

> Seems to me like they would be good conduits for transferring the magic to properly "raised" dragons like Aurene.

 

That is true, and it's in part my human bias talking, that would be an interesting plot to me.

 

Therefore, because it's Anet that will absolutely never happen.

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> @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> > Fingers crossed that people realise Balthazar was capable of absorbing dragon magic without noticeable corruption unlike other Tyria-bound creatures and the Gods have a history of sharing magic...

> >

> > Seems to me like they would be good conduits for transferring the magic to properly "raised" dragons like Aurene.

>

> That is true, and it's in part my human bias talking, that would be an interesting plot to me.

>

> Therefore, because it's Anet that will absolutely never happen.

 

I'm not sure about this actually. The gods do seem to have their limits, and those that reach beyond them have a history of going unstable. Of course, there's a question of whether this is because the gods have an inherent limit, or whether it's because it's the gods that are naturally less stable that tend to be power-hungry while the more placid gods are happy with what they've got.

 

It does seem, though, that the gods have reason to believe that they're not suitable replacements for the Elder Dragons. Even Balthaddon didn't think he was a suitable replacement. He just didn't care.

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To be fair, the trailer only shows stuff relating to Aurene to remind players of her journey and the path she's about to take, hyping it up and making us believe in a positive outcome. Given how pretty much each Living World episode title has had a double meaning so far, however, (e.g. Long Live the Lich both suggesting Joko's ultimate triumph while also ironically foreshadowing his demise) Aurene will likely end up doing something unexpected that leads us to a low point in the narrative before we set her on the right course again. Videos about Sun's Refuge show Aurene in both the cobweb-filled and restored instances, so we'll see how her actions play into the episode herself and whether she'll stick around after the final story instance of the episode.

 

Jessica Price mentioned once that the narrative designers had been toying with the idea of extending Joko's arc up to the first half of Episode 4 at most. If the Jahai Bluffs idea was already set in stone even with the late rewrites, the endgame of that arc would've likely taken place at the Fortress of Jahai which might've been Joko's last retreat. It's possible that the idea may have been adapted to the Joko Loyalists' last stand at that very fortress which we need to assault to finish off/capture the stragglers who try to resist change. It's even possible we might quickly deal with Grand Vizier Utumishi's lingering forces in the Desolation's Bone Palace in the early instance(s) of the episode before moving onto the new map just like we've had stories taking place in PoF and S4 maps in previous episodes.

 

I am, however, worried that we'll quickly brush off the rather volatile aftermath of Joko's fall and how the vacancy on the throne will be filled. Given how much Elona's political landscape has been built up in PoF and in S4 with all the factions and governed or independent regions, we should see some payoff for that story debt. Even with Joko gone, we've seen active Awakened in Sun's Refuge in the videos, so that means we may be getting a few of them as allies while some may be swayed by the orders of Joko's lieutenants like Koss feared in Episode 1 (**Awakened Koss Dejarin:** His whispers travel far, even on others' lips. I dare not leave. Lest I become his weapon once more.). Depending on the source of the Awakening magic, even the Mordant Crescent who wield lesser Awakening powers compared to Joko can still perform the deed and direct Awakened, so we need to figure out how to stop the threat they pose to truly liberate the Awakened.

 

What's also interesting is that technically the Mordant Crescent aren't the only ones capable of commanding the Awakened. After consuming Joko's magic and essence, Aurene might have similar powers, and then there's the [intriguing event](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defend_Alloa%27s_aural_sequencers_as_they_reprogram_the_abominations) in the Desolation where Orders of Whispers and Shadows use the aural sequencers to perfectly mimic Joko's voice to persuade the Awakened to assault the Forged. Granted, it was initiated by an asuran Whispers agent, but that doesn't mean that the Master of Shadows won't see an opportunity to use the aural sequencers to continue manipulating the Awakened for their own uses. Although some Shadows seem to be genuinely nice people, the [Order of Whispers Mission Dispatches](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Order_of_Whispers_Mission_Dispatches) reveal that they assassinated the undercover Whispers agent who had gotten too close to the truth, so at least some among Shadows are ruthless enough to ensure their secrets are kept, and I could easily see them attempting various underhanded means to remain relevant in a post-Joko Elona (even if their other duties should technically keep them busy).

 

Aside from Aurene's story, we do have a few lingering plot threads from PoF and S4:

1) What happened to Balthazar's divinity after the Five stripped him of his power? Is there a new deity of conflict and who that replacement is if so?

2) What's the fate of Menzies and the Shadow Army?

3) Will we see a unification of the Vabbian and Istani Sunspear orders and the reconciliation between Kitur and Zaeim? (my guess would be yes to some extent given how we see Kitur in Sun's Refuge in the videos, so hopefully we get that mentor-student reunion and possibly Tahlkora officially passing on the mantle of Spearmarshal to Zaeim to legitimize him and seal the union)

4) What's the fate of the remaining Forged (it's suggested that the Awakened mopped them up, but surely not all of them have been wiped out by now)? Will we ever learn what happened to the General of the Eternals whom Devona/Herald practically worshipped in [her scrolls](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Strange_Burning_Scroll) and who was supposed to prepare for Balthazar's coming in the south (is the general supposed to be the Forged commander in the Foundry meta with Temar and Tegon)?

5) What will the Order of Shadows do now that we've forcibly removed Joko, one of the pieces from the board who has been their primary target and the reason for their schism with the original Order of Whispers who might still be residing in Jahai Bluffs?

6) What will the fate of the United Kingdom of Elona be post-Joko? Will Shadows attempt to back up Redeemer Kossan as a figurehead while also subtly aiding Grand Vizier Utumishi's Loyalists to artificially keep the conflict going, or will they just install a puppet ruler while being the true power behind the throne? Will Elona remain an absolute monarchy or be divided into autonomous provinces in a loose confederation like in the past, and will Awakened be accepted among even the more skeptical Elonians?

7) Will [Overseer Kuda](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Overseer_Kuda) and her experiments with dragon minions (with heavy suggestions that she's Kudu's daughter in the Specimen Chamber meta in Ep2) play into the remaining season, or is she one of the plot hooks for Season 5 or beyond?

 

I'm already worried that the Forged will suffer the fate of the Mordrem Guard from HoT where they won't really be addressed in plot until maybe years later if even then. Jessica Price did suggest we'll be catching a glimpse of how the human clergies are faring after the reveal about the Six's absence, and I wonder if that means we may learn a bit about Zaishen and Forged as well or if those will be ignored unless they become the subject of a raid story. If we intend to clear the table before moving onward, the Forged deserve a proper in-game conclusion to their storyline instead of just an off-hand remark of someone else taking care of them while we're not looking; it would be nice if we could reconcile with some of them (as at least some were forced/brainwashed to serve Balthazar or suffer terrible pain) and fight alongside them as allies as well as what their thoughts are about Balthazar's demise and him using them rather selfishly.

 

The same can also be said for the potential Elonian civil war plot that should likewise be addressed in some manner as we still have notable figures like Grand Vizier Utumishi and Wurmmarshal Osa Ekolo to deal with one way or another. If the Commander just moves on and never looks back and if we don't see some Shadows schemes and their interactions with their potential rivals in the Elonian Whispers at Jahai Bluffs, it'll be very unfortunate, but I hope the narrative designers took this plot into consideration while rewriting S4 plot to fit into their episodic plotline. I feel it'd be poetic to resolve another Elonian political situation at Jahai Bluffs once again, as it was the very location where Turai Ossa defeated Joko and changed the course of Elonian history, so we could recreate the feat (even if our opponents there would just be remnants of Joko's forces instead of the lich king himself) to usher in a new golden age for Elona and the desert. I would also like to see more Zalambur and Hamaseen involvement to show us that we need more morally grey forces alongside the good guys to keep things orderly and relatively peaceful without Elona descending into chaos. :)

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> @"Kossage.9072" said:

> To be fair, the trailer only shows stuff relating to Aurene to remind players of her journey and the path she's about to take, hyping it up and making us believe in a positive outcome. Given how pretty much each Living World episode title has had a double meaning so far, however, (e.g. Long Live the Lich both suggesting Joko's ultimate triumph while also ironically foreshadowing his demise) Aurene will likely end up doing something unexpected that leads us to a low point in the narrative before we set her on the right course again. Videos about Sun's Refuge show Aurene in both the cobweb-filled and restored instances, so we'll see how her actions play into the episode herself and whether she'll stick around after the final story instance of the episode.

>

> Jessica Price mentioned once that the narrative designers had been toying with the idea of extending Joko's arc up to the first half of Episode 4 at most. If the Jahai Bluffs idea was already set in stone even with the late rewrites, the endgame of that arc would've likely taken place at the Fortress of Jahai which might've been Joko's last retreat. It's possible that the idea may have been adapted to the Joko Loyalists' last stand at that very fortress which we need to assault to finish off/capture the stragglers who try to resist change. It's even possible we might quickly deal with Grand Vizier Utumishi's lingering forces in the Desolation's Bone Palace in the early instance(s) of the episode before moving onto the new map just like we've had stories taking place in PoF and S4 maps in previous episodes.

>

> I am, however, worried that we'll quickly brush off the rather volatile aftermath of Joko's fall and how the vacancy on the throne will be filled. Given how much Elona's political landscape has been built up in PoF and in S4 with all the factions and governed or independent regions, we should see some payoff for that story debt. Even with Joko gone, we've seen active Awakened in Sun's Refuge in the videos, so that means we may be getting a few of them as allies while some may be swayed by the orders of Joko's lieutenants like Koss feared in Episode 1 (**Awakened Koss Dejarin:** His whispers travel far, even on others' lips. I dare not leave. Lest I become his weapon once more.). Depending on the source of the Awakening magic, even the Mordant Crescent who wield lesser Awakening powers compared to Joko can still perform the deed and direct Awakened, so we need to figure out how to stop the threat they pose to truly liberate the Awakened.

>

> What's also interesting is that technically the Mordant Crescent aren't the only ones capable of commanding the Awakened. After consuming Joko's magic and essence, Aurene might have similar powers, and then there's the [intriguing event](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defend_Alloa%27s_aural_sequencers_as_they_reprogram_the_abominations) in the Desolation where Orders of Whispers and Shadows use the aural sequencers to perfectly mimic Joko's voice to persuade the Awakened to assault the Forged. Granted, it was initiated by an asuran Whispers agent, but that doesn't mean that the Master of Shadows won't see an opportunity to use the aural sequencers to continue manipulating the Awakened for their own uses. Although some Shadows seem to be genuinely nice people, the [Order of Whispers Mission Dispatches](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Order_of_Whispers_Mission_Dispatches) reveal that they assassinated the undercover Whispers agent who had gotten too close to the truth, so at least some among Shadows are ruthless enough to ensure their secrets are kept, and I could easily see them attempting various underhanded means to remain relevant in a post-Joko Elona (even if their other duties should technically keep them busy).

>

> Aside from Aurene's story, we do have a few lingering plot threads from PoF and S4:

> 1) What happened to Balthazar's divinity after the Five stripped him of his power? Is there a new deity of conflict and who that replacement is if so?

> 2) What's the fate of Menzies and the Shadow Army?

> 3) Will we see a unification of the Vabbian and Istani Sunspear orders and the reconciliation between Kitur and Zaeim? (my guess would be yes to some extent given how we see Kitur in Sun's Refuge in the videos, so hopefully we get that mentor-student reunion and possibly Tahlkora officially passing on the mantle of Spearmarshal to Zaeim to legitimize him and seal the union)

> 4) What's the fate of the remaining Forged (it's suggested that the Awakened mopped them up, but surely not all of them have been wiped out by now)? Will we ever learn what happened to the General of the Eternals whom Devona/Herald practically worshipped in [her scrolls](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Strange_Burning_Scroll) and who was supposed to prepare for Balthazar's coming in the south (is the general supposed to be the Forged commander in the Foundry meta with Temar and Tegon)?

> 5) What will the Order of Shadows do now that we've forcibly removed Joko, one of the pieces from the board who has been their primary target and the reason for their schism with the original Order of Whispers who might still be residing in Jahai Bluffs?

> 6) What will the fate of the United Kingdom of Elona be post-Joko? Will Shadows attempt to back up Redeemer Kossan as a figurehead while also subtly aiding Grand Vizier Utumishi's Loyalists to artificially keep the conflict going, or will they just install a puppet ruler while being the true power behind the throne? Will Elona remain an absolute monarchy or be divided into autonomous provinces in a loose confederation like in the past, and will Awakened be accepted among even the more skeptical Elonians?

> 7) Will [Overseer Kuda](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Overseer_Kuda) and her experiments with dragon minions (with heavy suggestions that she's Kudu's daughter in the Specimen Chamber meta in Ep2) play into the remaining season, or is she one of the plot hooks for Season 5 or beyond?

>

> I'm already worried that the Forged will suffer the fate of the Mordrem Guard from HoT where they won't really be addressed in plot until maybe years later if even then. Jessica Price did suggest we'll be catching a glimpse of how the human clergies are faring after the reveal about the Six's absence, and I wonder if that means we may learn a bit about Zaishen and Forged as well or if those will be ignored unless they become the subject of a raid story. If we intend to clear the table before moving onward, the Forged deserve a proper in-game conclusion to their storyline instead of just an off-hand remark of someone else taking care of them while we're not looking; it would be nice if we could reconcile with some of them (as at least some were forced/brainwashed to serve Balthazar or suffer terrible pain) and fight alongside them as allies as well as what their thoughts are about Balthazar's demise and him using them rather selfishly.

>

> The same can also be said for the potential Elonian civil war plot that should likewise be addressed in some manner as we still have notable figures like Grand Vizier Utumishi and Wurmmarshal Osa Ekolo to deal with one way or another. If the Commander just moves on and never looks back and if we don't see some Shadows schemes and their interactions with their potential rivals in the Elonian Whispers at Jahai Bluffs, it'll be very unfortunate, but I hope the narrative designers took this plot into consideration while rewriting S4 plot to fit into their episodic plotline. I feel it'd be poetic to resolve another Elonian political situation at Jahai Bluffs once again, as it was the very location where Turai Ossa defeated Joko and changed the course of Elonian history, so we could recreate the feat (even if our opponents there would just be remnants of Joko's forces instead of the lich king himself) to usher in a new golden age for Elona and the desert. I would also like to see more Zalambur and Hamaseen involvement to show us that we need more morally grey forces alongside the good guys to keep things orderly and relatively peaceful without Elona descending into chaos. :)

 

Zalambur djinn reveal would be fun.

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> @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> I'm not sure about this actually. The gods do seem to have their limits,

If the gods didn't have a limit to how much power they could hold without either dying, or going crazy, then the whole Abbadon situation in GW1 wouldn't make sense. If they could just have taken all of Abbadon's power, and either given it to one of them, or split it between them so they all get an equal share, then there would have been no reason to chain him and wait for a worthy person to come claim his power. The fact that Kormir's wording in PoF seems to indicate they found someone to throw most of Balthazar's power into would support that as well.

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So, Tom Abernathy has apparently been commenting on people not having recognised the true reference of the title, and says it's something to do with this season (

)

 

I'm thinking... I don't think there's been anything star-related in the main story so far, so it's probably something that's easy to overlook.

 

The big star-related location (and related events, achievements, and, importantly, _books_) is the Astralarium in Istan. Many of the books there indicate that astrological predictions are a real thing in Tyria. In particular, given the apparent goals of the characters this season, there's the Eternal Alchemy of the Stars book, which has the following text available in-game:

 

Do you seek new meaning in the age-old quandaries of the Eternal Alchemy? Then look no further than the lens of your telescope! In his exciting literary debut, Pilkk explores the previously undiscovered connections between the Eternal Alchemy and the stars above. About the author:

 

A merchant by trade, Pilkk spent many a night in the Cursed Shores staring at the sky, pondering the Eternal Alchemy. His early studies at the Durmand Priory yielded few answers and greater questions, plaguing Pilkk day in and out. After years of unanswered questions, he turned his queries to the stars. Much to his surprise, they replied.

 

Despite controversy over Pilkk's qualifications, scholars and laypeople alike find his lines of inquiry both insightful and easy to understand. As a result of his studies, Pilkk was awarded the "Unexpected Brilliance" award by the Durmand Priory.

 

So, according to this book (which we only see the blurb of), it is apparently possible to develop greater understanding of the Eternal Alchemy through astrological observations. While what the characters are looking to do is find a way to remove the Elder Dragons without breaking the Eternal Alchemy (or the All), an endeavour in which gaining a greater understanding of it would likely be useful.

 

Might, then, the reference be related to this thread? Might the mysterious Pilkk even show up in the upcoming chapter to share his findings?

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> @"Kossage.9072" said:

> 3) Will we see a unification of the Vabbian and Istani Sunspear orders and the reconciliation between Kitur and Zaeim? (my guess would be yes to some extent given how we see Kitur in Sun's Refuge in the videos, so hopefully we get that mentor-student reunion and possibly Tahlkora officially passing on the mantle of Spearmarshal to Zaeim to legitimize him and seal the union)

This is something I wish to see as well. Especially because Kitur said he was going to recruit new Sunspears from the local Academy, since the students there showed anti-Joko sympathies. The Sunspear group in Vabbi has a number of old timers who might not be fit for battle, but can impart a lot of knowledge onto the people they recruit, and Zaeim's group, which also seems to be made up of mostly new recruits.

 

Not to mention the fact they have Griffons, which, while still few in number, would be a great boon to the Sunspears if they could use them for air support to fight remnants of the Forged, Joko's armies, and the Branded.

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> @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> So, Tom Abernathy has apparently been commenting on people not having recognised the true reference of the title, and says it's something to do with this season (

)

>

> I'm thinking... I don't think there's been anything star-related in the main story so far, so it's probably something that's easy to overlook.

 

he hes confirmed that it was to do with a line from episode 2. after the golem battle

 

the line is: "may his memory be a star to guide us."

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> @"derd.6413" said:

> > @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > So, Tom Abernathy has apparently been commenting on people not having recognised the true reference of the title, and says it's something to do with this season (

)

> >

> > I'm thinking... I don't think there's been anything star-related in the main story so far, so it's probably something that's easy to overlook.

>

> he hes confirmed that it was to do with a line from episode 2. after the golem battle

>

> the line is: "may his memory be a star to guide us."

 

Yeah, it refers to the Olmakhan phrase. And he followed up saying that's right with "[The question is...why?](

)"

 

It would imply that someone dies, and if we take leaks into account...

 

 

Taimi's illness gets worse, she gonna die.

 

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> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > > So, Tom Abernathy has apparently been commenting on people not having recognised the true reference of the title, and says it's something to do with this season (

)

> > >

> > > I'm thinking... I don't think there's been anything star-related in the main story so far, so it's probably something that's easy to overlook.

> >

> > he hes confirmed that it was to do with a line from episode 2. after the golem battle

> >

> > the line is: "may his memory be a star to guide us."

>

> Yeah, it refers to the Olmakhan phrase. And he followed up saying that's right with "[The question is...why?](

)"

>

> It would imply that someone dies, and if we take leaks into account...

>

>

Taimi's illness gets worse, she gonna die.

 

 

my guess would be the memories we get to see from glint/hear from Vlast.

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