Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 > @"silentnight warrior.2714" said: > "Warriors can burst while invulnerable since day 1." > > Since when warrior have invulnerability? > > this is how. i wont take credit because its not my build.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugrakarma.9416 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 > @"incisorr.9502" said: > 1st - you're fighting scrubs and that completely invalidates everything this only reinforces the point of the author of the post, since he himself is amateur in this class and has overperforming against other amateurs, it is a pve farm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > @"UfoCoffee.2084" said: > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Artaz.3819" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i've played every class > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Nekromalistik.7045" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on. Since when did thief have invur? Hahahah if u r talking about dagger storm its an evade and there r counter skills. U can also just walk away till the skill is finished... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While thief does have stealth it has no where near the amount of sustained dps a mesmer has. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > N unless u r talking about deadeye. There's not much instant stealth abilities apart from binding power and heart seeker combo. There's dagger 5 but u have to land it. Mesmer stealth doesn't need to land anything or need any combo. Yeah thief has a passive so what??? Because a thief dies in like 2-3 hits from every other class. It is known to be the worst 1v1 class in PVP. N it's damage is tiny compared to that of a mesner burst. Plz don't make kitten up. It's seriously nuts u r comparing the amount of stealth invur reflect teleport de-targeting skills to the small amount a thief has. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > U really need to go play thief to understand what u wrote is complete b.s. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not going to say mirage is op but if u r comparing thief... That's basically the worst comparison. Since a mesmer has so many more skills available to it to both do dmg and sustain. The best thing a thief has is mobility to reset. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We're talking power mes here so thief has more sustain dps than mes. > > > > > > > > > Yes mes stealth doesn't need combo and it's instant oh it has also a moderate CD on it, meanwhile thief can stealth for days. > > > > > > > > > Power mes dies in 2 3 hits too, it has also less condi cleanse than thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah on burst mes wins, but thief can burst more often. > > > > > > > > > Thief has more shadowsteps and stealth what the heck are you talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also thief counters mesmer since the dawn of time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmm, I don't think thief counters mesmer, like thief vs guardian...may be core mes and early days of gw2 but not chrono/mirage and not today. Sure thief "should win more" but them 2 specs are far from defenceless vs thief and can easily counter preauer them back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would say it depends on build. Against condition mes I agree thief isn't the hard counter it used to be and I'd say it's a bit of an even fight, though it's more likely the thief will have a situation develop elsewhere that is more worthy of the time investment vs fighting a mirage for the same time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beg to differ, condi mes is an easy prey to sd thief. The amount of evades and condi cleanses of sd2, as well the 2xecto, turns the match into thieves favour. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's an even match up nowadays. 2x ectos? So you're not dodging steal with your million evades? > > > > > > > > So you're not dodging the condi burst with your million evades? > > > > > > > > Seriously thieves have no right whatsoever to complain about evades. > > > > > > ** throws apple** thats all it is though, no casting inside evade frames > > > > Plenty of attacking while evading with sd. > > locked into animation An animation combo that crits for 7k if it lands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Tempest.7584 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Isn't mesmer being the ultimate noob stomper old news? And general game experience matters. A PvP veteran could probably pick up any meta spec for the first time and still dominate inexperienced opponents. And shouldn't we know by now not to draw sweeping conclusions from isolated encounters? Not sure this video proves much of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansau.7326 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 > @"Shao.7236" said: > > @"Ansau.7326" said: > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > It's baffling how people think it's okay to be able to evade any hard bursts in any state, why is it so hard to understand? We'll never know. > > > > > > Being able to spam visual clutter that used to take some thinking and now done by nearly anything you press. > > > > > > Mesmer is truly one of a kind and outmost favorite profession of Anet most likely. > > > > > > I miss the days without PoF. Wasn't much of a mess compared now. > > > > Warriors can burst while invulnerable since day 1. > > Thieves, rangers, revs can also land hard bursts while being invulnerable. > > > > So mesmer doing it is a problem but the rest no.... > > It was easier to say: I don't want to pay attention to mesmer and kill them without even trying. > > A skill is far more different than an "evade". You ever heard of utility? Sure passive traits are so difficult to use... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > (...) > Not sure this video proves much of anything. I don't get this post either. But it seems like you just have to write "mirage" in the title and lots of people jump on the pointless spam train. From both sides. Kind of sad that mirage was kept the way it is that the playerbase itself has such hard fronts. There were a lot of valuable suggestions what would have solved them - and, yes, lots of trash as well, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlie.7641 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > @"silentnight warrior.2714" said: > > "Warriors can burst while invulnerable since day 1." > > > > Since when warrior have invulnerability? > > > > > > this is how. i wont take credit because its not my build. >  > > If you look close enough you will realize this picture is a fake... There is no Full counter on 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > @"UfoCoffee.2084" said: > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Artaz.3819" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i've played every class > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Nekromalistik.7045" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on. Since when did thief have invur? Hahahah if u r talking about dagger storm its an evade and there r counter skills. U can also just walk away till the skill is finished... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While thief does have stealth it has no where near the amount of sustained dps a mesmer has. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > N unless u r talking about deadeye. There's not much instant stealth abilities apart from binding power and heart seeker combo. There's dagger 5 but u have to land it. Mesmer stealth doesn't need to land anything or need any combo. Yeah thief has a passive so what??? Because a thief dies in like 2-3 hits from every other class. It is known to be the worst 1v1 class in PVP. N it's damage is tiny compared to that of a mesner burst. Plz don't make kitten up. It's seriously nuts u r comparing the amount of stealth invur reflect teleport de-targeting skills to the small amount a thief has. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > U really need to go play thief to understand what u wrote is complete b.s. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not going to say mirage is op but if u r comparing thief... That's basically the worst comparison. Since a mesmer has so many more skills available to it to both do dmg and sustain. The best thing a thief has is mobility to reset. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We're talking power mes here so thief has more sustain dps than mes. > > > > > > > > > > Yes mes stealth doesn't need combo and it's instant oh it has also a moderate CD on it, meanwhile thief can stealth for days. > > > > > > > > > > Power mes dies in 2 3 hits too, it has also less condi cleanse than thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah on burst mes wins, but thief can burst more often. > > > > > > > > > > Thief has more shadowsteps and stealth what the heck are you talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also thief counters mesmer since the dawn of time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmm, I don't think thief counters mesmer, like thief vs guardian...may be core mes and early days of gw2 but not chrono/mirage and not today. Sure thief "should win more" but them 2 specs are far from defenceless vs thief and can easily counter preauer them back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would say it depends on build. Against condition mes I agree thief isn't the hard counter it used to be and I'd say it's a bit of an even fight, though it's more likely the thief will have a situation develop elsewhere that is more worthy of the time investment vs fighting a mirage for the same time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beg to differ, condi mes is an easy prey to sd thief. The amount of evades and condi cleanses of sd2, as well the 2xecto, turns the match into thieves favour. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's an even match up nowadays. 2x ectos? So you're not dodging steal with your million evades? > > > > > > > > > > So you're not dodging the condi burst with your million evades? > > > > > > > > > > Seriously thieves have no right whatsoever to complain about evades. > > > > > > > > ** throws apple** thats all it is though, no casting inside evade frames > > > > > > Plenty of attacking while evading with sd. > > > > locked into animation > > An animation combo that crits for 7k if it lands. huh? on what target? or are including FS and LS? the point i made with "locked into animation" is that you can f3 FS at the last bit, denying the thief FS and also interrupting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorQ.7041 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > > > @"Artaz.3819" said: > > > > [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument] > > > > > > > > If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale. > > > > > > > > The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness. > > > > > > > > That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :) > > > > > > thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does > > > > > > i've played every class > > > > > > mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi > > > > > > > > > and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke > > > > > > i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious > > > > > > Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise > > > > > > and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp > > > > > > > > > > @"Nekromalistik.7045" said: > > > > I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v > > > > > > implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse > > > > > > > > > > Hold on. Since when did thief have invur? Hahahah if u r talking about dagger storm its an evade and there r counter skills. U can also just walk away till the skill is finished... > > > > While thief does have stealth it has no where near the amount of sustained dps a mesmer has. > > > > N unless u r talking about deadeye. There's not much instant stealth abilities apart from binding power and heart seeker combo. There's dagger 5 but u have to land it. Mesmer stealth doesn't need to land anything or need any combo. Yeah thief has a passive so what??? Because a thief dies in like 2-3 hits from every other class. It is known to be the worst 1v1 class in PVP. N it's damage is tiny compared to that of a mesner burst. Plz don't make kitten up. It's seriously nuts u r comparing the amount of stealth invur reflect teleport de-targeting skills to the small amount a thief has. > > > > U really need to go play thief to understand what u wrote is complete b.s. > > > > I am not going to say mirage is op but if u r comparing thief... That's basically the worst comparison. Since a mesmer has so many more skills available to it to both do dmg and sustain. The best thing a thief has is mobility to reset. > > We're talking power mes here so thief has more sustain dps than mes. > Yes mes stealth doesn't need combo and it's instant oh it has also a moderate CD on it, meanwhile thief can stealth for days. > Power mes dies in 2 3 hits too, it has also less condi cleanse than thief. > > Yeah on burst mes wins, but thief can burst more often. > Thief has more shadowsteps and stealth what the heck are you talking about. > > Also thief counters mesmer since the dawn of time. Thief counters mes because of ecto. As we ve seen in jawgeous's vid. Even Mr God of pvp thief sindrener can't beat a guy who just hopped on a mesmer for 1 whole day lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > > > > @"Artaz.3819" said: > > > > > [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument] > > > > > > > > > > If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale. > > > > > > > > > > The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness. > > > > > > > > > > That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :) > > > > > > > > thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does > > > > > > > > i've played every class > > > > > > > > mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi > > > > > > > > > > > > and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke > > > > > > > > i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious > > > > > > > > Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise > > > > > > > > and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Nekromalistik.7045" said: > > > > > I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v > > > > > > > > implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on. Since when did thief have invur? Hahahah if u r talking about dagger storm its an evade and there r counter skills. U can also just walk away till the skill is finished... > > > > > > While thief does have stealth it has no where near the amount of sustained dps a mesmer has. > > > > > > N unless u r talking about deadeye. There's not much instant stealth abilities apart from binding power and heart seeker combo. There's dagger 5 but u have to land it. Mesmer stealth doesn't need to land anything or need any combo. Yeah thief has a passive so what??? Because a thief dies in like 2-3 hits from every other class. It is known to be the worst 1v1 class in PVP. N it's damage is tiny compared to that of a mesner burst. Plz don't make kitten up. It's seriously nuts u r comparing the amount of stealth invur reflect teleport de-targeting skills to the small amount a thief has. > > > > > > U really need to go play thief to understand what u wrote is complete b.s. > > > > > > I am not going to say mirage is op but if u r comparing thief... That's basically the worst comparison. Since a mesmer has so many more skills available to it to both do dmg and sustain. The best thing a thief has is mobility to reset. > > > > We're talking power mes here so thief has more sustain dps than mes. > > Yes mes stealth doesn't need combo and it's instant oh it has also a moderate CD on it, meanwhile thief can stealth for days. > > Power mes dies in 2 3 hits too, it has also less condi cleanse than thief. > > > > Yeah on burst mes wins, but thief can burst more often. > > Thief has more shadowsteps and stealth what the heck are you talking about. > > > > Also thief counters mesmer since the dawn of time. > > Thief counters mes because of ecto. As we ve seen in jawgeous's vid. Even Mr God of pvp thief sindrener can't beat a guy who just hopped on a mesmer for 1 whole day lol. Ectox2 with on a medium cd, condi cleanse on demand, high evade uptime. Like Odik mentioned above, sd thief should never lose to condi mirage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shao.7236 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 > @"Ansau.7326" said: > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > @"Ansau.7326" said: > > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > It's baffling how people think it's okay to be able to evade any hard bursts in any state, why is it so hard to understand? We'll never know. > > > > > > > > Being able to spam visual clutter that used to take some thinking and now done by nearly anything you press. > > > > > > > > Mesmer is truly one of a kind and outmost favorite profession of Anet most likely. > > > > > > > > I miss the days without PoF. Wasn't much of a mess compared now. > > > > > > Warriors can burst while invulnerable since day 1. > > > Thieves, rangers, revs can also land hard bursts while being invulnerable. > > > > > > So mesmer doing it is a problem but the rest no.... > > > It was easier to say: I don't want to pay attention to mesmer and kill them without even trying. > > > > A skill is far more different than an "evade". You ever heard of utility? > > Sure passive traits are so difficult to use... How can you keep missing the damn point, evading with endurance at any state is broken and goes against the game philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackTruth.6813 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 There will ALWAYS be entitled mesmers in the game who think it is hard to evade while attacking. What is the point of GW2 because of fail developers and fail entitled brats like Mesmers. Why is there no demand for a classic GW2 server? People are actual idiots sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > > > > @"Artaz.3819" said: > > > > > [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument] > > > > > > > > > > If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale. > > > > > > > > > > The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness. > > > > > > > > > > That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :) > > > > > > > > thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does > > > > > > > > i've played every class > > > > > > > > mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi > > > > > > > > > > > > and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke > > > > > > > > i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious > > > > > > > > Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise > > > > > > > > and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Nekromalistik.7045" said: > > > > > I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v > > > > > > > > implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on. Since when did thief have invur? Hahahah if u r talking about dagger storm its an evade and there r counter skills. U can also just walk away till the skill is finished... > > > > > > While thief does have stealth it has no where near the amount of sustained dps a mesmer has. > > > > > > N unless u r talking about deadeye. There's not much instant stealth abilities apart from binding power and heart seeker combo. There's dagger 5 but u have to land it. Mesmer stealth doesn't need to land anything or need any combo. Yeah thief has a passive so what??? Because a thief dies in like 2-3 hits from every other class. It is known to be the worst 1v1 class in PVP. N it's damage is tiny compared to that of a mesner burst. Plz don't make kitten up. It's seriously nuts u r comparing the amount of stealth invur reflect teleport de-targeting skills to the small amount a thief has. > > > > > > U really need to go play thief to understand what u wrote is complete b.s. > > > > > > I am not going to say mirage is op but if u r comparing thief... That's basically the worst comparison. Since a mesmer has so many more skills available to it to both do dmg and sustain. The best thing a thief has is mobility to reset. > > > > We're talking power mes here so thief has more sustain dps than mes. > > Yes mes stealth doesn't need combo and it's instant oh it has also a moderate CD on it, meanwhile thief can stealth for days. > > Power mes dies in 2 3 hits too, it has also less condi cleanse than thief. > > > > Yeah on burst mes wins, but thief can burst more often. > > Thief has more shadowsteps and stealth what the heck are you talking about. > > > > Also thief counters mesmer since the dawn of time. > > Thief counters mes because of ecto. As we ve seen in jawgeous's vid. Even Mr God of pvp thief sindrener can't beat a guy who just hopped on a mesmer for 1 whole day lol. You mean the video where Jawgeous died in the first clip after losing consistently to thief? On a build designed to stall out and win 1v1s? The 2nd fight Sinds team had mid and home and had just killed 2 people, what's he gonna do? Join the team fight that will evolve on one of the points? No, he delays full cap of far against the mesmer and even full caps it when power mesmer comes. The best thing is that he puts at the end "Somehow I'm out on top" - Ignoring the "somehow" showing he's done 0 analysis on why he was on top by his reasoning, no he's not, red has had the only ticking nodes for some time, sure they're now 2 people down but blue is about to lose a guy and be 4v3 across the map picking up 1 node to equalise nodes but 100 points behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansau.7326 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 > @"Shao.7236" said: > > @"Ansau.7326" said: > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > @"Ansau.7326" said: > > > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > > It's baffling how people think it's okay to be able to evade any hard bursts in any state, why is it so hard to understand? We'll never know. > > > > > > > > > > Being able to spam visual clutter that used to take some thinking and now done by nearly anything you press. > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer is truly one of a kind and outmost favorite profession of Anet most likely. > > > > > > > > > > I miss the days without PoF. Wasn't much of a mess compared now. > > > > > > > > Warriors can burst while invulnerable since day 1. > > > > Thieves, rangers, revs can also land hard bursts while being invulnerable. > > > > > > > > So mesmer doing it is a problem but the rest no.... > > > > It was easier to say: I don't want to pay attention to mesmer and kill them without even trying. > > > > > > A skill is far more different than an "evade". You ever heard of utility? > > > > Sure passive traits are so difficult to use... > > How can you keep missing the kitten point, evading with endurance at any state is broken and goes against the game philosophy. No, you're the one who's not getting it. Evading bursts at any state without effort isn't a new thing from Mirage. Other professions have had similar mechanics through passive invulnerabilities since day 1. But it's only an issue when mesmers have it. Btw, the fact you consider this as against game philosophy tells us how little you know about this game. Combat has always been dominated and characterized by cheesy mechanics: Passive invulnerabilities, passive healing outperforming 90% of active healings, unlimited stealth access, AoE doing more than single target skills, skills doing insane damage, evades in spammable skills, skills with range beyond reasonable terms, insane damage modifiers, unblockable as a buff and not tied to specific skills... If anything, Mirage Cloak is just another example of the combat philosophy of this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 > @"BlackTruth.6813" said: > There will ALWAYS be entitled mesmers in the game who think it is hard to evade while attacking. What is the point of GW2 because of fail developers and fail entitled brats like Mesmers. > > Why is there no demand for a classic GW2 server? People are actual idiots sigh. Calling anyone who plays a class (regardless of build) a brat, invalidates any point you make. Goes double for calling people idiots. Appears your points onward here have become void. Take care and have a great day bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Safandula.8723 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > @"Artaz.3819" said: > > [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument] > > > > If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale. > > > > The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness. > > > > That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :) > > thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does > > i've played every class > > mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi > > > and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke > > i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious > > Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise > > and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp > > > > @"Nekromalistik.7045" said: > > I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v > > implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse > > Thief got no invul and retargeting. Invul and evade are 2 different things, which kinda show ur small knowledge about game mechanics(kinda funny if ur leg) . Thief has 2 s evade on passive(and 4s on dagger storm, yeah that should get nerf) , u only pick that trait, becouse others are useless. If mirage is not played on high Elo its mainly becouse of other overcreeped specs (holo, boonbeast), but putting mirage in comparison with other op classes don't make it less op - as soon as they get nerfed, mirage will again dominate a meta. Same problem as with mentioned above, little risk to high reward. I'm curious if someone calculated what is the evade/invul uptime on mirage(I'm almost sure 50% or above.), but on this evade time, ur free to shit on your enemy. If u miss the burst u can burst him again, and again. To sum up: -evade spam -condi and power burst spam, even on evade frames -clone spam -evade while stunned-mirage cloak should not let u evade while stunned, if not traited. If traited, it should give u exhaustion if u dodge while stunned, it would be fair. All these arguments make mirage rly hard, and annoying to fight against. Not gonna mention the meta chaos build, that is loaded with all kind of boons, and is tanky, while still doing all mentioned above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezd.6359 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Mesmers have same amount of evades. ... clone spam :) Oh. Wars do waaaagh spam, rangers whistle spam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 ^ Stealth is a target break, so thief has it. Mirage doesn't have evade spam, mirage is one of the professions with the least amount of vigor. There is no such thing as burst spam, power can burst once every 12sec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Safandula.8723 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > ^ Stealth is a target break, so thief has it. > Mirage doesn't have evade spam, mirage is one of the professions with the least amount of vigor. > There is no such thing as burst spam, power can burst once every 12sec. Nah, he already mentioned stealth, retargeting is what mirage has on some skills(2 of them I think?). Mirage don't have evade spam, it has evade/invul spam: axe 3, sword 2, staff 2(not an evade, but effect is the same), F4, mirage cloak from healing skill, not sure if I missed anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solori.6025 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 > @"Shao.7236" said: > > @"Ansau.7326" said: > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > @"Ansau.7326" said: > > > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > > It's baffling how people think it's okay to be able to evade any hard bursts in any state, why is it so hard to understand? We'll never know. > > > > > > > > > > Being able to spam visual clutter that used to take some thinking and now done by nearly anything you press. > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer is truly one of a kind and outmost favorite profession of Anet most likely. > > > > > > > > > > I miss the days without PoF. Wasn't much of a mess compared now. > > > > > > > > Warriors can burst while invulnerable since day 1. > > > > Thieves, rangers, revs can also land hard bursts while being invulnerable. > > > > > > > > So mesmer doing it is a problem but the rest no.... > > > > It was easier to say: I don't want to pay attention to mesmer and kill them without even trying. > > > > > > A skill is far more different than an "evade". You ever heard of utility? > > > > Sure passive traits are so difficult to use... > > How can you keep missing the kitten point, evading with endurance at any state is broken and goes against the game philosophy. Can you link that gaming philosophy or rule? I can't seem to find the official source from Anet listed about this. > @"Safandula.8723" said: >,**staff 2(not an evade, but effect is the same)**, No ..That's not an evade. The effect isn't the same because you can still take damage. This is as bad as saying black powder on thief is an invuln cause it blinds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > @"Safandula.8723" said: > >,**staff 2(not an evade, but effect is the same)**, > > No ..That's not an evade. > The effect isn't the same because you can still take damage. > > This is as bad as saying black powder on thief is an invuln cause it blinds. I dunno I saw a video from someone in plat who said it is, are you trying to tell me someone who got top 100 doesn't know the difference between evade and teleport or that it matters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solori.6025 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said: > > >,**staff 2(not an evade, but effect is the same)**, > > > > No ..That's not an evade. > > The effect isn't the same because you can still take damage. > > > > This is as bad as saying black powder on thief is an invuln cause it blinds. > > I dunno I saw a video from someone in plat who said it is, are you trying to tell me someone who got top 100 doesn't know the difference between evade and teleport or that it matters? In context of QQ and nerf threads yes, it does. It doesn't matter if the player is in top 100 or top 10, doesn't change the fact they are wrong and fail to know the difference between a port and evade. It's like saying blind is an invuln. Just because you say it is, doesn't make it true, it's why we have the mess IRL right now. Misinformation and false information are detrimental to actually and factually identifying a problem, or even assessing a strength of a class or classes. Now if we are going to start labeling abilities as something else just because we feel like it, then I would like to label Warrior Rush as a shadow step- cause it basically moves you from 1 place to the other. Judges Intervention, Blink and lightning flash is now an evade..cause it ports and those are the same thing... Same with Gaurdian sw3 and thief sw2. Actually now Rush is an evade. cause it moves you. ^ is that what we want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 I did a little calculation about the pure evade uptime of mirage. :smile: I assumed the following: The metabattle build, condi sage, chaos/illusions/mirage. Axe/torch + staff. Using false oasis heal and illusionary ambush. Also adventurer's runes. For vigor calculation I assumed shatters on CD, but ignored Critical Infusion. I also assumed no initial double dodge, just what a mirage could "spam" in a longer fight. For comparison, S/D weaver, which has "such an awful evade uptime" (understandably). I assumed 10% vigor uptime - usage of Arcane Abatement and unreliable Elemental Contigency procs. I cannot fill in tables from excel so easily, but I tried to get a somewhat good picture. All values are dodge time per second, meaning evade time divided by cooldown. It is therefor **the percentage of possible spammed evade uptime**. I know this is a serious limitation, but reactive gameplay is hard to implement. :wink: ![](https://i.imgur.com/IWBu4VQ.png"") It does not include stealth, distortion, staff 2, focus invulnerabilities or anything else. Just evade/mirage mirror uptime. If you find mistakes or things I forgot, tell me please! Draw your own conclusions. €: Oops, found a little mistake already. Energy sigil for ele gives only 0,75s/2/10s. (Note: I assumed 10s for weapon swap, even though it is 9s CD.) Also updraft adds another 1s evade every 40s. The result for ele would then be just above 0,425. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepwalker.1398 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 All i see is OP complained about the class. Got told "git gud" or "play to understand". OP played the class and now mesmer mains trying to find other excuses to defend the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 when can we see day3? you must be god teir now ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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