Archlvt.2036 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 I find it a curious design choice to lock the living story unless you've logged in during that period. The content was designed to be free, yet we are charging new and returning players a fee for coming to GW2. I get that they want to reward loyal players, but nobody plays a game for 7 years straight, nobody. So I have to wonder, how many more people would have returned to the game had we not hired bouncers (in the form of paying to come back) to keep players out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hashberry.4510 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 The business model is to have customers continually exposed to gem store advertising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightbringer.5860 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 I might be a minority here, but when I am not in the mood to play gw2 I still would log on for under a minute to unlock it when a living story chapter came out. I think it's fine doing it this way since it encourages people to stay around. As for new players not having them, you can think of the living story as large festivals, which until this year some (Queen's Gauntlet, Dragon Bash) were one off festivals that we hadn't seen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 As I understand it, LS content is tied to expansions so if you purchase the expansion and then log in ONCE during the LS release, you would get the LS for free to play at your leisure. This encourages players to purchase the expansions and encourages them to log on frequently (the LS releases are well advertised). ANet has to make money somewhere so these incentives help pay for the continued content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyanchiv.2583 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Having living story episodes locked behind gems simply for being new to the game or for not having logged in for several months is not something I personally agree with. However I can see much of this from another perspective. The content in those stories took much developer time, effort, and resources. Requiring gems helps the developers continue making more content, and those episodes are very affordable by converting gold to gems. I'm not sure I understand your comment about playing a game for 7 years. I've played this game since launch and logged in frequently enough to get all living world episodes. Some speedrunners out there have played older, single player, games that don't receive content updates for well more than 7 years too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 I understand why they sell it, because the Living Story is DLC in all but name and I remain convinced that if they called it that far fewer people would be surprised to return to the game to find that more has been released and they'll need to pay for it if they want to play it, because this has become the standard model for any game which gets regular updates. But I also understand why, without clear terminology to explain what it is and why it's charged separately, players are surprised to come back and find "the story" costs extra - especially if they've already bought both expansions. I do wonder, considering the relatively low cost (200 gems per episode, or about £2/$2.50 and less if you buy a whole season together) and the number of people who get it for free by logging in during the 3 months or so after each episode is released, whether it's actually worth that much to Anet to charge for it and whether it might be better to give it away or 'bundle' the relevant season/s with the expansion packs at the current price (which comes to the same thing - the Living Story is free - but requires the player to purchase _something_ to get it). Other than loss of revenue the only issue I can see with that is which seasons to include with which expansion, particularly with Season 3 which requires HoT to play but is basically an introduction to PoF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve The Cynic.3217 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 > @"kharmin.7683" said: > As I understand it, LS content is tied to expansions so if you purchase the expansion and then log in ONCE during the LS release, you would get the LS for free to play at your leisure. This encourages players to purchase the expansions and encourages them to log on frequently (the LS releases are well advertised). ANet has to make money somewhere so these incentives help pay for the continued content. Not exactly. LS content has to be divided into four types: * LS1 - you had to be there at the time to play it. *Nobody* can play it now, not even new characters of the people who played it back then. * LS2 - not tied to an expansion, obviously, because it came before, and set the scene for, HoT. * LS3 - requires that you have HoT on the account. * LS4 - requires that you have PoF on the account. The stories in LS3 and LS4 are follow-ons to the stories in, respectively, HoT and PoF, and LS3 set the scene for PoF. And in fact, the mere fact of logging in during a chapter's "newest episode" time is all that's needed to unlock it. If you don't have the expansion, you unlock the episode so that it will be there waiting for you to play it once you have bought the expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Thanks for the clarification. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 > @"Archlvt.2036" said: > nobody plays a game for 7 years straight, nobody. > Guess I'm a nobody then XD Yeah it does suck a little for new players who have to catch up on the living world stuff but at the very least the option to obtain that content with in game gold exists. I'm definitely in the mindset that when buying the expansions there should be an option to obtain the previous living world season at a heavy discount. I'm not sure if there is an option like that or not already since I've never needed to buy living world content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 > @"Archlvt.2036" said: > I find it a curious design choice to lock the living story unless you've logged in during that period. The content was designed to be free, yet we are charging new and returning players a fee for coming to GW2. I get that they want to reward loyal players, but nobody plays a game for 7 years straight, nobody. > > So I have to wonder, how many more people would have returned to the game had we not hired bouncers (in the form of paying to come back) to keep players out? There are three options: * Offer Living World episodes for free to barely-active players, anyone who logs on just 3-5 times/year. * Offer Living World episodes for free to everyone, and charge more for the expansions. * Charge everyone for Living World episodes. What is ultimately best for the community and the long term health of the game? The majority of the content of the game is unlocked by purchase of the expansions. Only one story+map is gated at a time, so whenever someone starts playing, they aren't blocked from the _current_ story+map, only from the ones that they weren't around for. The content isn't designed to be free; it's made available to be free as a reward to those willing to double-click the icon for gw2.exe several times a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pifil.5193 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @"Archlvt.2036" said: > > I find it a curious design choice to lock the living story unless you've logged in during that period. The content was designed to be free, yet we are charging new and returning players a fee for coming to GW2. I get that they want to reward loyal players, but nobody plays a game for 7 years straight, nobody. > > > > So I have to wonder, how many more people would have returned to the game had we not hired bouncers (in the form of paying to come back) to keep players out? > > There are three options: > * Offer Living World episodes for free to barely-active players, anyone who logs on just 3-5 times/year. > * Offer Living World episodes for free to everyone, and charge more for the expansions. > * Charge everyone for Living World episodes. There are at least 4 options. You missed: * Offer Living World episodes for free to everyone. Expansions are still required to access the content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zohane.7208 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > @"Archlvt.2036" said: > > > I find it a curious design choice to lock the living story unless you've logged in during that period. The content was designed to be free, yet we are charging new and returning players a fee for coming to GW2. I get that they want to reward loyal players, but nobody plays a game for 7 years straight, nobody. > > > > > > So I have to wonder, how many more people would have returned to the game had we not hired bouncers (in the form of paying to come back) to keep players out? > > > > There are three options: > > * Offer Living World episodes for free to barely-active players, anyone who logs on just 3-5 times/year. > > * Offer Living World episodes for free to everyone, and charge more for the expansions. > > * Charge everyone for Living World episodes. > > There are at least 4 options. You missed: > > * Offer Living World episodes for free to everyone. Expansions are still required to access the content. > Offering them for free probably isn't an option. The developers and artists and such at Anet still need to get paid for what they do. I do believe that's why IwN phrased their 2nd suggestion the way they did. Even though the expansions are required they'd still have to be more expensive in order to pay for the loss of gem sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 The fact that the episodes are free at all might well be the sticking point for these complaints. Seeing someone else get a deal seems to triggers feelings that one is entitled to that deal, even when one does not meet the criteria to qualify. If you know anyone who works in retail, they'll no doubt be able to tell you about people demanding a sale price even though the sale was last week, not this week. @ the OP. Since you want to discuss motivations, you might consider that the vast majority of regular posters on these forums are likely also logging in at least semi-regularly. This means they benefit from the existing business model. Don't expect a lot of sympathy for a, "But I want the freebie!" demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pifil.5193 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 > @"Zohane.7208" said: > > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > @"Archlvt.2036" said: > > > > I find it a curious design choice to lock the living story unless you've logged in during that period. The content was designed to be free, yet we are charging new and returning players a fee for coming to GW2. I get that they want to reward loyal players, but nobody plays a game for 7 years straight, nobody. > > > > > > > > So I have to wonder, how many more people would have returned to the game had we not hired bouncers (in the form of paying to come back) to keep players out? > > > > > > There are three options: > > > * Offer Living World episodes for free to barely-active players, anyone who logs on just 3-5 times/year. > > > * Offer Living World episodes for free to everyone, and charge more for the expansions. > > > * Charge everyone for Living World episodes. > > > > There are at least 4 options. You missed: > > > > * Offer Living World episodes for free to everyone. Expansions are still required to access the content. > > > > Offering them for free probably isn't an option. The developers and artists and such at Anet still need to get paid for what they do. I do believe that's why IwN phrased their 2nd suggestion the way they did. Even though the expansions are required they'd still have to be more expensive in order to pay for the loss of gem sales. They are offered for free. The vast vast majority of players get them for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zohane.7208 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > @"Zohane.7208" said: > > > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > > @"Archlvt.2036" said: > > > > > I find it a curious design choice to lock the living story unless you've logged in during that period. The content was designed to be free, yet we are charging new and returning players a fee for coming to GW2. I get that they want to reward loyal players, but nobody plays a game for 7 years straight, nobody. > > > > > > > > > > So I have to wonder, how many more people would have returned to the game had we not hired bouncers (in the form of paying to come back) to keep players out? > > > > > > > > There are three options: > > > > * Offer Living World episodes for free to barely-active players, anyone who logs on just 3-5 times/year. > > > > * Offer Living World episodes for free to everyone, and charge more for the expansions. > > > > * Charge everyone for Living World episodes. > > > > > > There are at least 4 options. You missed: > > > > > > * Offer Living World episodes for free to everyone. Expansions are still required to access the content. > > > > > > > Offering them for free probably isn't an option. The developers and artists and such at Anet still need to get paid for what they do. I do believe that's why IwN phrased their 2nd suggestion the way they did. Even though the expansions are required they'd still have to be more expensive in order to pay for the loss of gem sales. > > They are offered for free. The vast vast majority of players get them for free. Your suggestion, to which I was responding, was to offer it free to everyone. That was what I was responding to, and I still don't think that it would be an option - there would definitely be loss of gem sales for which Anet would have to compensate. If you examine IwN's options you'll find that #1 and #2 cover these ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 > @"Zohane.7208" said: > > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > @"Archlvt.2036" said: > > > > I find it a curious design choice to lock the living story unless you've logged in during that period. The content was designed to be free, yet we are charging new and returning players a fee for coming to GW2. I get that they want to reward loyal players, but nobody plays a game for 7 years straight, nobody. > > > > > > > > So I have to wonder, how many more people would have returned to the game had we not hired bouncers (in the form of paying to come back) to keep players out? > > > > > > There are three options: > > > * Offer Living World episodes for free to barely-active players, anyone who logs on just 3-5 times/year. > > > * Offer Living World episodes for free to everyone, and charge more for the expansions. > > > * Charge everyone for Living World episodes. > > > > There are at least 4 options. You missed: > > > > * Offer Living World episodes for free to everyone. Expansions are still required to access the content. > > > > Offering them for free probably isn't an option. The developers and artists and such at Anet still need to get paid for what they do. I do believe that's why IwN phrased their 2nd suggestion the way they did. Even though the expansions are required they'd still have to be more expensive in order to pay for the loss of gem sales. Technically, @"Pifil.5193" is correct: there's a fourth option in which ANet develops new content without directly charging for it. And technically, they'd find it hard to keep producing the game in the manner to which we have become accustomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibdabs.3410 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 I've just returned after a few years away and I'm quite happy paying 200 Gems to unlock episodes. I'm definitely getting the "Bug in the System" mainly because of the Prototype Position Rewinder, a gadget from the Heart Vendor. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Prototype_Position_Rewinder I'd sell my soul for it, actually. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyger.1637 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Minor correction; I played City of Heroes for 7 years straight, just F.Y.I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blocki.4931 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 You will always get the most recent (or "active") LS chapter whenever you log in. You will need the most recent expansion as well, but each episode only costs 200 gems, which is like 40g. At worst, you will have that gold from doing dailies in a matter of 20 days, that is if you are doing absolutely nothing else to get gold. Not a big hurdle at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haishao.6851 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > @"Archlvt.2036" said: > > > I find it a curious design choice to lock the living story unless you've logged in during that period. The content was designed to be free, yet we are charging new and returning players a fee for coming to GW2. I get that they want to reward loyal players, but nobody plays a game for 7 years straight, nobody. > > > > > > So I have to wonder, how many more people would have returned to the game had we not hired bouncers (in the form of paying to come back) to keep players out? > > > > There are three options: > > * Offer Living World episodes for free to barely-active players, anyone who logs on just 3-5 times/year. > > * Offer Living World episodes for free to everyone, and charge more for the expansions. > > * Charge everyone for Living World episodes. > > There are at least 4 options. You missed: > > * Offer Living World episodes for free to everyone but delete the content after 3 weeks There, I fixed that for you. This was the original "free LW" model. It was never intended to be something just given out. It was made as a way to keep people playing because people playing are people spending money on the gemstore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > The fact that the episodes are free at all might well be the sticking point for these complaints. Seeing someone else get a deal seems to triggers feelings that one is entitled to that deal, even when one does not meet the criteria to qualify. If you know anyone who works in retail, they'll no doubt be able to tell you about people demanding a sale price even though the sale was last week, not this week. > > @ the OP. Since you want to discuss motivations, you might consider that the vast majority of regular posters on these forums are likely also logging in at least semi-regularly. This means they benefit from the existing business model. Don't expect a lot of sympathy for a, "But I want the freebie!" demand. Ha, that's beginner level retail complaining. The really impressive ones will demand a sale which never actually existed and which makes no sense at all, like buying a 2nd hand DS game and getting a PS4 free with it because they walked past a sign on the way in which said "buy one get one free" and stopped reading before "on selected Xbox games, lowest priced game free" and decided the part of the sign they did read must apply to any combination of items in the shop. Or they'll just demand products which have never existed, like Mario Kart on the Xbox or "Super Mario Bros Smash Party", which is NOT Super Mario Bos, Super Smash Bros or Mario Party and how can you possibly work here and be so stupid that you can't even find the game I want and how should I know what kind of box little Timmy uses? They're all play DVDs so why does it matter?. Heh, off topic but I needed that. I may get some frustrating questions in my current job but I do not miss working retail at all. By comparison the complaints and suggestions on this forum all seem very reasonable. As I said before I'd be interested to know how much money Anet actually makes from the Living Story. I can't imagine it's really that much, given how many people get it for free and how many people typically do not spend extra money on games after the initial purchase (something like 80% on average, if I remember correctly). I'm not convinced it would be a huge loss for them to give it away. But I agree that if it was, especially if it would affect the quality and/or schedule of releases then that wouldn't be a good option for anyone. As an alternatively I'd like to see then offer some sort of "GW2 mega-collection" which includes everything released so far, except maybe the latest season of the living story. That way new and returning players have 1 simple option to catch up on everything they've missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardid.7203 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 The one minute connection "reward" also keeps people from uninstalling the game when they decide to take a break from it. It is very smart, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 > @"Archlvt.2036" said: > I find it a curious design choice to lock the living story unless you've logged in during that period. The content was designed to be free, yet we are charging new and returning players a fee for coming to GW2. I get that they want to reward loyal players, but nobody plays a game for 7 years straight, nobody. > > So I have to wonder, how many more people would have returned to the game had we not hired bouncers (in the form of paying to come back) to keep players out? Not many. After all, all you need to get all episodes for free is to log once every 2-3 months. People that stopped playing so much they can't manage even that aren't likely to ever return. Yes, some will do, but those will be individual cases, not large numbers. On the other hand this way of handling it makes people that haven't fully cut their ties with the game yet at least keep logging in every now and then "just in case". And people that do log in occasionally are easier to persuade to come back. So, which is more beneficial for the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khisanth.2948 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 > @"Archlvt.2036" said: > nobody plays a game for 7 years straight, nobody. It doesn't require playing for 7 years straight. You can have every episode unlocked by ~~playing~~logging in once approximately every 3 months. That is around 4 minutes per year plus however long it takes to download the patches. > @"Blocki.4931" said: > You will always get the most recent (or "active") LS chapter whenever you log in. You will need the most recent expansion as well, but each episode only costs 200 gems, which is like 40g. At worst, you will have that gold from doing dailies in a matter of 20 days, that is if you are doing absolutely nothing else to get gold. Not a big hurdle at all. or around 2 days of fractal dailies > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Archlvt.2036" said: > > I find it a curious design choice to lock the living story unless you've logged in during that period. The content was designed to be free, yet we are charging new and returning players a fee for coming to GW2. I get that they want to reward loyal players, but nobody plays a game for 7 years straight, nobody. > > > > So I have to wonder, how many more people would have returned to the game had we not hired bouncers (in the form of paying to come back) to keep players out? > > Not many. After all, all you need to get all episodes for free is to log once every 2-3 months. People that stopped playing so much they can't manage even that aren't likely to ever return. Yes, some will do, but those will be individual cases, not large numbers. > > On the other hand this way of handling it makes people that haven't fully cut their ties with the game yet at least keep logging in every now and then "just in case". And people that do log in occasionally are easier to persuade to come back. > > So, which is more beneficial for the game? If "hey! there is some new stuff in the game" won't get you to try the game again then you are probably a lost cause. I got an email from Anarchy Online not long ago along that line. I didn't even know they were still around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosleepdemon.1368 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Well they did spend time developing it so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now