Salvage Kits Can't Extract Runes Anymore? This is Stupid.

[Neurion.4086]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> And instead of getting dozens and dozens of different kinds of runes and sigils, most of which **no one wants**, **we end up with only 3 types of charms, 3 types of symbols, and lucent motes**, all of which everyone will want (directly or indirectly)

>

No one wants? Speak for yourself. You don't really know what I, or other players want.

 

As for what we end up with is not that certain as you make it sound. After salvaging more than 200+ green and rare items with the mystic salvage kit (and yes, I know the type of kit makes no difference) I ended up with a fair number of lucent motes, and:

- 3 symbols of enhancement,

- 1 symbol of pain

- 2 charms of skill.

 

These numbers are not enough to buy a single recipe to learn. The drop rate is abysmal.

 

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

>

> Just this cycle alone I got 3 salvage kits lol

>

> And if lucky, 25 exotics is the amount I get in half a year. Plus, I wouldn't want at least half of the sigils in there,. This is not an issue at all, people are just mad for no reason.

 

Because you got 3 salvage kits this cycle it doesn't mean everyone does. I, for one, get around 5-6 salvage kits per year, while I have tons of repair canisters and reviving orbs. As you see, what you -personally **you**- get is not the norm for the rest of players. Laughing and dismissing other players' concern about the new situation as non-existant doesn't make the problem go away.

 

 

[Blocki.4931]

> @"Neurion.4086" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > And instead of getting dozens and dozens of different kinds of runes and sigils, most of which **no one wants**, **we end up with only 3 types of charms, 3 types of symbols, and lucent motes**, all of which everyone will want (directly or indirectly)

> >

> No one wants? Speak for yourself. You don't really know what I, or other players want.

>

> As for what we end up with is not that certain as you make it sound. After salvaging more than 200+ green and rare items with the mystic salvage kit (and yes, I know the type of kit makes no difference) I ended up with a fair number of lucent motes, and:

> - 3 symbols of enhancement,

> - 1 symbol of pain

> - 2 charms of skill.

>

> These numbers are not enough to buy a single recipe to learn. The drop rate is abysmal.

>

> > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> >

> > Just this cycle alone I got 3 salvage kits lol

> >

> > And if lucky, 25 exotics is the amount I get in half a year. Plus, I wouldn't want at least half of the sigils in there,. This is not an issue at all, people are just mad for no reason.

>

> Because you got 3 salvage kits this cycle it doesn't mean everyone does. I, for one, get around 5-6 salvage kits per year, while I have tons of repair canisters and reviving orbs. As you see, what you -personally **you**- get is not the norm for the rest of players. Laughing and dismissing other players' concern about the new situation as non-existant doesn't make the problem go away.

>

>

 

Yeah, feel free to dismiss the actual point of my comment. You're not gonna get any sigils you want from those random exotics. They're super rare. Most of them have a useless one slotted in, occasionally you get a Sigil of Force. Runes aren't even worth mentioning.

 

Stay mad I guess. I hope they don't change this.

[Neurion.4086]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> Yeah, feel free to dismiss the actual point of my comment.

The actual point of your comment -the one I quoted- was that you "got 3 BL salvage kits this cycle alone lol", and mine was that NOT *everyone* is as lucky as you.

 

> Stay mad I guess. I hope they don't change this.

I am not mad, just disappointed and in disagreement with ANet's bad implementation of a good idea.

 

I second what phs.6089 suggested:

> @"phs.6089" said:

> This really should have been 2 steps, One we had before the update and new salvage runes and sigils, so one can chose what items they want to salve.

> Fully destroying sigils and runs vs 20% chance to get them and do what I want after should be the chose.

 

[Teratus.2859]

Yeah i'm not feeling this either.. also thought it was a bug.

 

I've got half a bank tab full of Black lion kits and 2 bank tabs full of superior runes and sigils but that's not the point..

I thought I was getting the choice to salvage these runes and sigils not that they would be auto salvaged with the item.

I very much like the new rune and sigil changes for the most part but this auto salvage thing is a really bad change imo.

I don't mind my inventory being filled with trash runes and sigils if I have the option to either sell them or salvage them.. i'd rather that over this autosalvage we have now.

[mtpelion.4562]

The problem is that you are still approaching Runes/Sigils from an old (now mostly obsolete) standpoint. The old ways must die.

 

The new way to approach them is to realize that you are intended to CRAFT nearly all Runes/Sigils going forward, and the occasional BLSK or Upgrade Extractor are there to give you a chance to skip the crafting every once in a while.

 

The economy is still in flux as drop rates and inventories get shuffled and studied, but in the long run the fact that you won't usually be extracting upgrades will be irrelevant because the new system will be an improvement in every way.

[Cristalyan.5728]

> @"mtpelion.4562" said:

> The problem is that you are still approaching Runes/Sigils from an old (now mostly obsolete) standpoint. The old ways must die.

>

> **The new way to approach them is to realize that you are intended to CRAFT nearly all Runes/Sigils going forward, and the occasional BLSK or Upgrade Extractor are there to give you a chance to skip the crafting every once in a while.**

>

> The economy is still in flux as drop rates and inventories get shuffled and studied, but in the long run the fact that you won't usually be extracting upgrades will be irrelevant because the new system will be an improvement in every way.

 

LOL! The bolded part is one of the most brilliant inept statement I ever read on this Forum =). Let's try a translation:

- the intention of the developers is now to CRAFT the runes.

i.The only problem is that until now we HAD the same runes without crafting.

- The **occasional** BLSK and Upgrade Extractor are there to give you a chance to skip the crafting once in a while.

ii. Again, the problem is that until now we had a minimum 80% chance to skip the crafting. This 80% means "almost permanently" - in opposition with "once in a while" we have now.

- " ..... the new system will be an improvement in every way" - for WHO? If for players, please explain - I cannot see this "improvement in every way". But, if this improvement is for ANet, then, indeed =)

 

I said already this in one of my previous posts: The sales team of Anet learned the lesson from the previous failure of the Upgrade Extractor. And now is determined to make profit by selling this kind of stuff.

How? Several methods:

- Make the crafting of a rune expensive enough in order to make a BLSK or an Upgrade Extractor a valid alternative.

- Make some materials very rare in order to make a BLSK or an Upgrade extractor a valid alternative

- MAKE SURE nobody can obtain a good rune without using a BLSK or an Upgrade extractor (eventually, even if they have some, they will run out and will be forced to buy.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > And I feel the exact opposite I like that I dont have to bother with green sigils/runes anymore and have about 35 black lion kits collecting dust on a mule.

> BLKs were indeed relatively easy to obtain once, but not anymore. I'm getting at best one per month (and often not even that much), and i do salvage way more than 25 exotics monthly. I still have some kits from the earlier days, but i can easily see the moment when i will run out. And it's not so far away.

>

> For someone that wasn't playing since the very beginning and started much later, when they weren't as easy to obtain anymore, the change will be way, way more problematic, as they will probably have none at all.

>

>

 

Why would you waste your blc kits on every exotic?

For me its always been on runes/sigils actualy worth something even before the change, like the force sigil as an example.

[Ayrilana.1396]

The only time I used a BLK was when the rune or sigil had value so that I’d get to double dip and get both the benefits from salvaging and from selling on the TP.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Astraea.6075" said:

> An option to choose between the two outcomes might have been nice, but we don't have any information about how technically difficult this might have been to implement. BLCs are easy enough to obtain just by logging in and, as it was before players got large numbers of them from login rewards, are best used when you actually want to recover the rune/sigil due to its value.

 

 

Would make upgrade extractors worthless so aint going to and never was going to happen

[Tatwi.3562]

> @"Emberstone.2904" said:

> I haven't played this game continuously for years. I don't have BL Salvage Kits and Upgrade Extractors piled up from login rewards. It's really stupid that I can't use ordinary Salvage Kits anymore (I use the 15s one to extract upgrades).

>

> I'm working on crafting my last six ascended armor pieces, and I crafted my ascended chest today. I thought that I could use my Master Salvage Kit as always to take my Superior Scholar Rune out of my old exotic chest to put it into my new one. Rather than the rune I expected to get, I got a green worth about 60 silver. I lost 6g because I can no longer do something that used to work.

>

> Salvaged a bunch of older exotic pieces from my alts to see if it really didn't work like it used to, and lo, I didn't get a single sigil back.

>

> And since I don't have tons of BL Salvage Kits or Upgrade Extractors piled up, I would have to drop real cash to do something I used to do with only 15 silver. As someone who doesn't have the time to farm tons of gold, this patch screwed me more than it benefited me. Again, it's really stupid that I can't pull runes and sigils out with Salvage Kits anymore. This shouldn't be locked behind cash shop items.

>

> There's no reason why Salvage Kits couldn't work as they did before, and we can choose to salvage the runes and sigils ourselves rather than have it kill them automatically so you can sell more cash shop items. Why is forcing me to use cash shop items any better than the old way for the player?

>

> I feel like I'm being swindled. I'd rather have a ton of green sigils hogging my inventory that I have to vendor than this.

 

Yup. I'm pretty pissed off about it too.

1. It's clearly a change that was made expressly to drain gold from players in the hopes they will buy gems with real money.

2. I bought the game in 2012. I bought the two expansions. I purchased gems twice. If that's not enough for ArenaNet, too bad for them! Just going and changing the game in the hopes to squeeze more money from people like who play extremely casually is going to have only one result: I won't buy anything from you again.

 

Stop making the game worse just to pressure people to buy gems. I can't believe how many times this has happened over the years....

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Cristalyan.5728" said:

> > @"mtpelion.4562" said:

> > The problem is that you are still approaching Runes/Sigils from an old (now mostly obsolete) standpoint. The old ways must die.

> >

> > **The new way to approach them is to realize that you are intended to CRAFT nearly all Runes/Sigils going forward, and the occasional BLSK or Upgrade Extractor are there to give you a chance to skip the crafting every once in a while.**

> >

> > The economy is still in flux as drop rates and inventories get shuffled and studied, but in the long run the fact that you won't usually be extracting upgrades will be irrelevant because the new system will be an improvement in every way.

>

> LOL! The bolded part is one of the most brilliant inept statement I ever read on this Forum =). Let's try a translation:

> - the intention of the developers is now to CRAFT the runes.

> i.The only problem is that until now we HAD the same runes without crafting.

 

Except that until now you were dependent on getting the rune to drop or buying it from the TP.

 

You now have a chance of acquiring the crafting materials to craft the desired rune/sigil AND acquire the rune/sigil as a drop.

 

> @"Cristalyan.5728" said:

> - The **occasional** BLSK and Upgrade Extractor are there to give you a chance to skip the crafting once in a while.

> ii. Again, the problem is that until now we had a minimum 80% chance to skip the crafting. This 80% means "almost permanently" - in opposition with "once in a while" we have now.

 

If you were using sub Black Lion Salvage Kits on high value runes so far, then yes you are worse off if the materials gained accross all runes salavaged are less than the random rune drops. If you were using BLSK on high value runes in the past, nothing has changed.

[Zohane.7208]

> @"Tatwi.3562" said:

> 1. It's clearly a change that was made expressly to drain gold from players in the hopes they will buy gems with real money.

 

This change is one of the absolutely most requested one by forum people, so I would guess Anet made it because it was actually asked for.

> 2. I bought the game in 2012. I bought the two expansions. I purchased gems twice. If that's not enough for ArenaNet, too bad for them! Just going and changing the game in the hopes to squeeze more money from people like who play extremely casually is going to have only one result: I won't buy anything from you again.

>

> Stop making the game worse just to pressure people to buy gems. I can't believe how many times this has happened over the years....

 

I have to say I don't feel pressured at all - I'm a casual player (by my own definition), and I very very rarely feel the need to get special runes or sigils. I'm just happy playing the game. If something nice comes my way I'll use a Black Lion kit - but that only ever happens very rarely.

If anything, it's the Heavy farmers who might feel the change since they probably don't have enough kits for the loot they get.

 

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Zohane.7208" said:

> > @"Tatwi.3562" said:

> > 1. It's clearly a change that was made expressly to drain gold from players in the hopes they will buy gems with real money.

>

> This change is one of the absolutely most requested one by forum people, so I would guess Anet made it because it was actually asked for.

People were asking about making all runes craftable. They weren't asking for Anet to make them unobtainable directly from drops.

 

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > And I feel the exact opposite I like that I dont have to bother with green sigils/runes anymore and have about 35 black lion kits collecting dust on a mule.

> > BLKs were indeed relatively easy to obtain once, but not anymore. I'm getting at best one per month (and often not even that much), and i do salvage way more than 25 exotics monthly. I still have some kits from the earlier days, but i can easily see the moment when i will run out. And it's not so far away.

> >

> > For someone that wasn't playing since the very beginning and started much later, when they weren't as easy to obtain anymore, the change will be way, way more problematic, as they will probably have none at all.

> >

> >

>

> Why would you waste your blc kits on every exotic?

> For me its always been on runes/sigils actualy worth something even before the change, like the force sigil as an example.

For me too. And yet my supply of black lions is still shrinking at a visible rate. Even though i am not engaged in any sort of farming activity.

 

[Zohane.7208]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Zohane.7208" said:

> > > @"Tatwi.3562" said:

> > > 1. It's clearly a change that was made expressly to drain gold from players in the hopes they will buy gems with real money.

> >

> > This change is one of the absolutely most requested one by forum people, so I would guess Anet made it because it was actually asked for.

> People were asking about making all runes craftable. They weren't asking for Anet to make them unobtainable directly from drops.

 

As far as I recall, there were a huge number of threads/posts about not wanting sigils/runes to salvage off of gear. Presumably people were thinking of green ones, but Anet, as they tend to, chose to do the implementation across the board, possibly not in the fashion people imagined.

I agree, though, that there were also many requests to make them craftable.

[DeanBB.4268]

@OP, did you even bother looking up the Superior Rune of the Scholar? The recipe to craft it is discoverable, which costs nothing, and the ingredients are:

 

8 lucent crystal

5 ecto

5 elaborate totems

2 charm of brilliance

 

Surely you have the middle two ingredients? Keep salvaging and you'll get the new ingredients, I do already. So in essence, I could make these runes for free.

 

Things change. Adapt.

[Emberstone.2904]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> I don't feel my key-runner characters/slots are stupid.

> In fact, I guess it was smart as I have many extractors and a boatload of BL Salvage Kits now.

 

It's stupid when all of your character slots are taken by level 80s already, as mine are.

 

No, I'm not buying another character slot for $10. That's exactly the problem here. It's introducing microtransactions as a solution to a problem ArenaNet created out of something that wasn't a problem.

 

I'm not saying Runes/Sigils shouldn't be craftable in the new system. I'm only saying salvaging should continue to work exactly like it did before, just that I can choose to also salvage Runes/Sigils that pop out of my gear for the new materials.

[mtpelion.4562]

> @"Cristalyan.5728" said:

> > @"mtpelion.4562" said:

> > The problem is that you are still approaching Runes/Sigils from an old (now mostly obsolete) standpoint. The old ways must die.

> >

> > **The new way to approach them is to realize that you are intended to CRAFT nearly all Runes/Sigils going forward, and the occasional BLSK or Upgrade Extractor are there to give you a chance to skip the crafting every once in a while.**

> >

> > The economy is still in flux as drop rates and inventories get shuffled and studied, but in the long run the fact that you won't usually be extracting upgrades will be irrelevant because the new system will be an improvement in every way.

>

> LOL! The bolded part is one of the most brilliant inept statement I ever read on this Forum =). Let's try a translation:

> - the intention of the developers is now to CRAFT the runes.

> i.The only problem is that until now we HAD the same runes without crafting.

> - The **occasional** BLSK and Upgrade Extractor are there to give you a chance to skip the crafting once in a while.

> ii. Again, the problem is that until now we had a minimum 80% chance to skip the crafting. This 80% means "almost permanently" - in opposition with "once in a while" we have now.

> - " ..... the new system will be an improvement in every way" - for WHO? If for players, please explain - I cannot see this "improvement in every way". But, if this improvement is for ANet, then, indeed =)

>

> I said already this in one of my previous posts: The sales team of Anet learned the lesson from the previous failure of the Upgrade Extractor. And now is determined to make profit by selling this kind of stuff.

> How? Several methods:

> - Make the crafting of a rune expensive enough in order to make a BLSK or an Upgrade Extractor a valid alternative.

> - Make some materials very rare in order to make a BLSK or an Upgrade extractor a valid alternative

> - MAKE SURE nobody can obtain a good rune without using a BLSK or an Upgrade extractor (eventually, even if they have some, they will run out and will be forced to buy.

 

You are continuing to use an outdated viewpoint by which to analyze the new reality and will thus continue to arrive at incorrect conclusions.

 

Give the market some time to adjust. Right now everyone is salvaging and hoarding. Eventually they will start salvaging and selling. Once that happens you may experience a moment of clarity. If not, we can revisit your post.

[robertthebard.8150]

> @"Neurion.4086" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > And instead of getting dozens and dozens of different kinds of runes and sigils, most of which **no one wants**, **we end up with only 3 types of charms, 3 types of symbols, and lucent motes**, all of which everyone will want (directly or indirectly)

> >

> No one wants? Speak for yourself. You don't really know what I, or other players want.

>

> As for what we end up with is not that certain as you make it sound. After salvaging more than 200+ green and rare items with the mystic salvage kit (and yes, I know the type of kit makes no difference) I ended up with a fair number of lucent motes, and:

> - 3 symbols of enhancement,

> - 1 symbol of pain

> - 2 charms of skill.

>

> These numbers are not enough to buy a single recipe to learn. The drop rate is abysmal.

>

> > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> >

> > Just this cycle alone I got 3 salvage kits lol

> >

> > And if lucky, 25 exotics is the amount I get in half a year. Plus, I wouldn't want at least half of the sigils in there,. This is not an issue at all, people are just mad for no reason.

>

> Because you got 3 salvage kits this cycle it doesn't mean everyone does. I, for one, get around 5-6 salvage kits per year, while I have tons of repair canisters and reviving orbs. As you see, what you -personally **you**- get is not the norm for the rest of players. Laughing and dismissing other players' concern about the new situation as non-existant doesn't make the problem go away.

>

>

 

Doesn't that work both ways, referring to your last paragraph? What you get is not reflective of what the rest of the community gets. For example, I have only gotten 1 revive orb, and one repair cannister, along with one extractor since I've been back. It's odd that you call another poster out for assuming their experience is representative, and yet, try to use your own experience as representative.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

I don't agree that there was no problem with salvaged runes and sigils (particularly minors from Masterwork items). There were numerous complaints, at least from some people. Even players who didn't experience space issues while playing still had to sell the unwanted ones one by one (yes, they stack, but good luck getting a few stacks as opposed to a bunch of singletons). I would have preferred a sell-all-sigils-and-runes option at merchants over the current iteration, however.

 

This is ANet, though, and ANet is fond of iterations that kill multiple birds with the same stone. So, we have a "solution" that addresses multiple issues:

 

1. A rune-sigil revamp was done to make unwanted superior runes/sigils (perhaps) a more viable option

2. The problem of an inventory full of unwanted runes/sigils was removed

3. An additional material sink has been added to combat deflation in the prices of some materials due to the same reward proliferation that caused issue 2, above

4. ANet is searching for more ways to generate revenue, and making Extractors and BL Salvage Kits more desirable may do so, once the hoarders start to run out

 

I am not fond of the fact that the only way to obtain a desirable rune/sigil from a random drop is to use a consumable item that may _eventually_ cost me gems to get. In fact, I'm more likely to stick with the runes/sigils I have than to change, unless TP prices remain reasonable. Given my antipathy towards crafting, I think it unlikely that I will craft the upgrades. Whether we'll ever see pre-patch dirt-cheap stuff like Runes of the Krait selling for pre-patch Runes of the Scholar prices, though, remains to be seen.

 

I think it was Just a Flesh Wound who was/is fond of the saying, "Be careful what you ask for, ANet may give it to you." While it is true that not everyone asked for this change, a lot of people asked for sigil/rune solutions, and those who did not ask are also saddled with the change. Them's the breaks.

[Lambent.6375]

I only used my black lion kits to salvage exotic runes/sigils I wanted, either to use or sell. So I dont see myself running out due to this change. Unless they nerf black lion kit drop rate from daily's.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Zohane.7208" said:

> > @"Tatwi.3562" said:

> > 1. It's clearly a change that was made expressly to drain gold from players in the hopes they will buy gems with real money.

>

> This change is one of the absolutely most requested one by forum people, so I would guess Anet made it because it was actually asked for.

> > 2. I bought the game in 2012. I bought the two expansions. I purchased gems twice. If that's not enough for ArenaNet, too bad for them! Just going and changing the game in the hopes to squeeze more money from people like who play extremely casually is going to have only one result: I won't buy anything from you again.

> >

> > Stop making the game worse just to pressure people to buy gems. I can't believe how many times this has happened over the years....

>

> I have to say I don't feel pressured at all - I'm a casual player (by my own definition), and I very very rarely feel the need to get special runes or sigils. I'm just happy playing the game. If something nice comes my way I'll use a Black Lion kit - but that only ever happens very rarely.

> If anything, it's the Heavy farmers who might feel the change since they probably don't have enough kits for the loot they get.

>

 

I do not believe this is what the forums asked for.. then again let us not forget of course the forums at best are nothing more than a minor trickle of the playerbase even if it were.

This is just another effort to shift the game further towards microtransactions nothing more.

If you wanted to gear up some ascended armour previous it was much quicker to do so and a lot cheaper. Now you either have to pray for RNGesus to smile down on you a lot or buy inflated rune prices or symbol prices.. this is just the next step on from the starved supply from the nullification bullcrap… The poster back then who laughed at the notion that the last update was a steer to wards such transaction that would then lead to BLSK's becoming a target, as well as extractors.. well now you have all the proof necessary, this is just another push to gem store transactions.

This change is in no way an improvement, its a case of ANET fixing something that was not broken to start with but now offers a more lucrative microtransaction strategy across a broad base of the game. There was simply no reason to alter the way salvage kits worked, if you wanted the option to crunch the runes then there were far easier ways or at worst just allow the same kits to salvage runes at will once in the inventory.. placing ridiculous drop rates on the symbols is just the same push the nullification sigil utilised to push harder to use the TP and hope the mats and symbols become entrenched at much higher prices to warrant gemsales…

TBH this more forced push to microtransactional requirements is a worrying sign to me, I've seen it before and it smells bad, which is a shame as I have supported Guild Wars since early GW1

[robertthebard.8150]

> @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > @"Zohane.7208" said:

> > > @"Tatwi.3562" said:

> > > 1. It's clearly a change that was made expressly to drain gold from players in the hopes they will buy gems with real money.

> >

> > This change is one of the absolutely most requested one by forum people, so I would guess Anet made it because it was actually asked for.

> > > 2. I bought the game in 2012. I bought the two expansions. I purchased gems twice. If that's not enough for ArenaNet, too bad for them! Just going and changing the game in the hopes to squeeze more money from people like who play extremely casually is going to have only one result: I won't buy anything from you again.

> > >

> > > Stop making the game worse just to pressure people to buy gems. I can't believe how many times this has happened over the years....

> >

> > I have to say I don't feel pressured at all - I'm a casual player (by my own definition), and I very very rarely feel the need to get special runes or sigils. I'm just happy playing the game. If something nice comes my way I'll use a Black Lion kit - but that only ever happens very rarely.

> > If anything, it's the Heavy farmers who might feel the change since they probably don't have enough kits for the loot they get.

> >

>

> I do not believe this is what the forums asked for.. then again let us not forget of course the forums at best are nothing more than a minor trickle of the playerbase even if it were.

> This is just another effort to shift the game further towards microtransactions nothing more.

> If you wanted to gear up some ascended armour previous it was much quicker to do so and a lot cheaper. Now you either have to pray for RNGesus to smile down on you a lot or buy inflated rune prices or symbol prices.. this is just the next step on from the starved supply from the nullification bullcrap… The poster back then who laughed at the notion that the last update was a steer to wards such transaction that would then lead to BLSK's becoming a target, as well as extractors.. well now you have all the proof necessary, this is just another push to gem store transactions.

> This change is in no way an improvement, its a case of ANET fixing something that was not broken to start with but now offers a more lucrative microtransaction strategy across a broad base of the game. There was simply no reason to alter the way salvage kits worked, if you wanted the option to crunch the runes then there were far easier ways or at worst just allow the same kits to salvage runes at will once in the inventory.. placing ridiculous drop rates on the symbols is just the same push the nullification sigil utilised to push harder to use the TP and hope the mats and symbols become entrenched at much higher prices to warrant gemsales…

> TBH this more forced push to microtransactional requirements is a worrying sign to me, I've seen it before and it smells bad, which is a shame as I have supported Guild Wars since early GW1

 

The problem is that, while some, including yourself, apparently, will feel "forced" into microtransactions, others won't feel the sting at all. For myself, I will buy things like bank space, and character slots, I am a self professed altaholic, and those are things I have to have in order to maintain that. I won't be spending a lot of gems on extractors, and if I ever thought I had to, I could focus entirely on changing my gold to gems, and never have to spend any money. I'm not in a big rush, so if it takes me a while, it takes me a while, I can stall a toon at a specific point and work others until I get what I need, or, I can work other aspects that I may not be caught up on, and since I'm relatively new, that's a lot of stuff to do until I feel "forced" to buy anything, that I haven't already listed, anyway.

[sorudo.9054]

i always wonder why they make things worse in GW2 while the solution is right there, in GW.

[Rasimir.6239]

> @"Emberstone.2904" said:

> > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > I don't feel my key-runner characters/slots are stupid.

> > In fact, I guess it was smart as I have many extractors and a boatload of BL Salvage Kits now.

>

> It's stupid when all of your character slots are taken by level 80s already, as mine are.

>

> No, I'm not buying another character slot for $10. That's exactly the problem here. It's introducing microtransactions as a solution to a problem ArenaNet created out of something that wasn't a problem.

Just save some gold and exchange it for gems if you are keen on that. Personally, while I usually have an empty characcter slots for experimentations (my 22nd slot, most of them bought with in-game gold over the last 6 years), don't keyfarm since I don't enjoy it, but getting exotics with runes or sigils worth salvaging is so rare for me that I still have a whole bag full of black lion kits on one of my mules, as well as a few upgrade extractors (from map completion keys). From my point of view (as a person that very rarely drops exotic equipment) it looks like it'll take a few weeks or even months to come up with a basic stock of crafting mats, but doesn't look like it'll be a problem in the long run.

 

> @"Emberstone.2904" said:

> I'm not saying Runes/Sigils shouldn't be craftable in the new system. I'm only saying salvaging should continue to work exactly like it did before, just that I can choose to also salvage Runes/Sigils that pop out of my gear for the new materials.

But that's not how reworking a system works. Mixing the old and new system would make balancing the new system near impossible. ANet has decided that the new system is more in line with their vision of the game (and from what I've seen so far, it does adress a lot of complaints these forums have seen, from an overabundance of useless runes and sigils to inventory clogged after mass salvaging to the price of drop-only sigils like the sigil of nullification) and has changed the game accordingly.

 

Just like they changed the leveling and trait aquisition several times over the life of the game. Just like they changed dye drops and usage when they introduced the wardrobe. Just like they changed novelties from object to wardrobe just recently. Just like the changes to wvw experience and loot gain over the years. Just like the many other systems in this game they (or we the players, or both sides) were dissatisfied with.

 

Introducing a new system while keeping the old system running alongside it as an optional alternative rarely works, since players tend to find ways to exploit both systems by combining them in unexpected ways. The only way to keep the old system is to just implement a very watered-down version of the new system that gives no possibility of undesired synergies, but that mostly leads to systems that aren't useful in any way.

 

Change and iterations is what keeps an MMO alive and well. ANet has shown in the past that they do have the player's interest at heart with reworks, and that they are willing to revisit a rework if the new system doesn't live up to their expectations (see traits and NPE). Give the new system a chance, and you'll see that while it takes some getting used to the changes, it actually offers a good many improvements over how things were before last Tuesday. Don't cling to the past, but try to accept the present and look to how it can improve your experience in the future.

 

Once you have a few materials, then crafting the runes (or getting a friendly crafter to do the crafting for you with the materials you collected if crafting isn't your thing) will be cheap, easy and convenient, possibly more so than it used to be for many runes. Try to give the new system a fair chance, and once you've done that and still find parts of the system not working fluently (beyond "it's different than it used to be"), then it's time post suggestions on how to change it on the forums.

 

[Elricht Kaltwind.8796]

This update feels like it addresses a lot of problems all at once. First, and most noticeably, the rebalance has significantly changed how runes and sigils interact with a build, and added more depth to choosing which ones you run. I never thought I'd see the day when a Sigil of Force and a Sigil of Justice actually pose a dilemma. Awesome.

 

But secondly, it makes runes and sigils actually worth something, which has been sorely needed for years. The majority of runes and sigils have been un-sellable since, more or less, the game's launch. They now suddenly feel like something that matters, rather than just something you buy full sets of from the trading post for a few silver when your character hits level 80 and forget about. I can see why a player would consider it inconvenient that runes and sigils aren't a dime a dozen any more, but often convenience must be forgone in favour of gameplay, balance, and quality-of-life. I'm sure lots of players would like it if it cost five gold to craft a legendary, but there are a lot of reasons that isn't the case. Mind you, I also don't see a lot of players on the forums going "I'm a casual player and this isn't fair! How can I ever get a legendary if they cost a lot of gold?"

 

ArenaNet didn't cheat or "swindle" you out of anything. Balance happens. Nerfs happen. You aren't entitled to runes and sigils for free. And if you read the fine text on your salvage kit, you'll find it doesn't claim to salvage runes any more. That's user error.