Teamwork rewarded over skill?

[Dante.1763]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > @"Fallesafe.5932" said:

> > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > Why is teamwork rewarded over personal skill in this game so much. Everything seems to revolve around teamwork, and its rewarded as such.

> >

> > For two reasons:

> >

> > 1) 99.999% of players are **not** that insanely skilled individual. They actually vaguely resent that individual... and would scream bloody murder if he was given access to any rewards they didn't also have super-easy access to.

> >

> > 2) Anet plays to (and markets to) these sentiments **heavily**... The resentful, zero-skill bozo finds a home in this MMO that he couldn't find in any other.

>

> Thats pretty sad and I agree with you, I gravitate towards games like bloodborne which I have plantinumed as well as hollow knight which I have just recently 100%. Its sad this game doesn't have solo content on par with the type of challenge and skill that is required to complete these types of games. If the player base doesn't improve and is challenged and properly rewarded, then where is the incentive to play, get better and improve oneself.

 

I hate games like bloodborne and darksouls, and id rather not have that kind of "skill" required in any content in this game. My reflexes while fast, arent good enough to make those games enjoyable to play.

 

The player base in this game will not improve by adding content like that, instead you will drive players off. *EVERY* *SINGLE* *TIME* Anet adds even remotely "challenging" content to the game it gets nerfed because of the number of ultra casual players that play this game, the exception being the latest iteration of the Queens Gauntlet.

[Trise.2865]

Life advice: Getting help is always, always more powerful than "getting good".

[Swagger.1459]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > > Yes, let's complain about group content when literally 95% of the game is casual and solo friendly.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As to why team content gets rewarded better? Easy, if rewards were higher in solo content, the market would be flooded with stuff and the economy would go haywire. You might believe you are the be-all end-all of players but I guarantee you, there is many players who will be even better.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That and the fact that any time actually slightly challenging solo content gets added the forums light up like a Christmas tree during holiday season (there, even gave you a holiday reference).

> > > > >

> > > > > They need to add in permanent content that is extremely difficult and rewarding and does not require the help of others. Also others cannot help. Gw2 has catered to every crowd except this one.

> > > >

> > > > I find soloing fractals to be very challenging.

> > >

> > > Yah but very unrewarding.

> >

> > I have mixed feelings on this. Sure it puts less gold in my wallet than other content for the time invested, but the feeling of accomplishment at the end is pretty rewarding to me.

>

> Would be nice if skill was rewarded properly like it is in every other game.

 

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > @"Fallesafe.5932" said:

> > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > Why is teamwork rewarded over personal skill in this game so much. Everything seems to revolve around teamwork, and its rewarded as such.

> >

> > For two reasons:

> >

> > 1) 99.999% of players are **not** that insanely skilled individual. They actually vaguely resent that individual... and would scream bloody murder if he was given access to any rewards they didn't also have super-easy access to.

> >

> > 2) Anet plays to (and markets to) these sentiments **heavily**... The resentful, zero-skill bozo finds a home in this MMO that he couldn't find in any other.

>

> Thats pretty sad and I agree with you, I gravitate towards games like bloodborne which I have plantinumed as well as hollow knight which I have just recently 100%. Its sad this game doesn't have solo content on par with the type of challenge and skill that is required to complete these types of games. If the player base doesn't improve and is challenged and properly rewarded, then where is the incentive to play, get better and improve oneself.

 

OK, ok, I'll keep ya company my friend!

 

In detail, please explain this... "Would be nice if skill was rewarded properly like it is in every other game."... Like what are these "every other game"? Give me clear examples of "skill" being "rewarded properly"?

 

"games like bloodborne"... the single player PlayStation game?

 

 

So what do you want exactly? You want challenging solo content for this Online MMORPG, but you can't explain exactly what you want? You want single player playstationesque dungeons? Single player playstationesque you vs npc army mode? Single player playstationesque spsvp fight npc monsters mode? Single player playstationesque open world simulator? Private jps?

 

What do you want the "rewards" to be for displaying super solo skills?

 

The more you are specific, the more the devs can understand what you want and not just dismiss the thread as you being "silly" yet again.

 

Edit- And to be helpful... I want to remind you that GW2 is a live MMO. It's not a single person game made for console. You should probably stick to console games when you want to be "properly rewarded" for your "skill" while playing solo, because GW2 will not be able to meet your solo needs in this case.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> So what do you want exactly? You want challenging solo content for this Online MMORPG, but you can't explain exactly what you want?

 

I guess they want more fights like Liadri and Turai? Can't think of anything else

 

 

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > Throw random elements at players that require precise execution and timing and quick reaction time in succession. Make the sequence lengthy and then see who survives it or gets the furthest.

>

> That's just one kind of talent. And it's well rewarded in other sorts of games.

> Teamwork is another type of skill.

>

> "Make the sequence lengthy and see who survives" sounds like the dullest sort of platform gaming experience. If that's what I wanted, I'd, you know, play platform games.

 

Ok I have spvp legend 2xs in gw2 that's random elements thrown at me which I react to with precise timing and perfect execution and perfect movement and I'm rewarded. Unfortunately it also requires teamwork. Why dont we have more content that is exactly like this minus the teamwork.

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Airdive.2613" said:

> > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > Jumping puzzles are an example of individual skill.

>

> Honestly, that's not skill, that's memorization. Do it once, and you can do it anytime. Adventures are a better measure of "skill".

> A bit more skill is involved in soloing champions/legendary bosses, but ultimately it's a matter of finding a build capable of sustaining indefinitely and enduring tens of minutes of perfect skill rotation, which again can be memorized.

> I think the definition of skill as the "high tolerance for memorizing game mechanics for the sake of it" is getting old by now. Humans are not machines, and video games are not work.

 

and eventually it turns into "I can replace you with a 10 line script"

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > @"Fallesafe.5932" said:

> > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > > Why is teamwork rewarded over personal skill in this game so much. Everything seems to revolve around teamwork, and its rewarded as such.

> > >

> > > For two reasons:

> > >

> > > 1) 99.999% of players are **not** that insanely skilled individual. They actually vaguely resent that individual... and would scream bloody murder if he was given access to any rewards they didn't also have super-easy access to.

> > >

> > > 2) Anet plays to (and markets to) these sentiments **heavily**... The resentful, zero-skill bozo finds a home in this MMO that he couldn't find in any other.

> >

> > Thats pretty sad and I agree with you, I gravitate towards games like bloodborne which I have plantinumed as well as hollow knight which I have just recently 100%. Its sad this game doesn't have solo content on par with the type of challenge and skill that is required to complete these types of games. If the player base doesn't improve and is challenged and properly rewarded, then where is the incentive to play, get better and improve oneself.

>

> I hate games like bloodborne and darksouls, and id rather not have that kind of "skill" required in any content in this game. My reflexes while fast, arent good enough to make those games enjoyable to play.

>

> The player base in this game will not improve by adding content like that, instead you will drive players off. *EVERY* *SINGLE* *TIME* Anet adds even remotely "challenging" content to the game it gets nerfed because of the number of ultra casual players that play this game, the exception being the latest iteration of the Queens Gauntlet.

 

Then you arent skilled enough to persevere at what I'm proposing and you would not be able to complete it unless you improved. You couldnt blame anyone but yourself and if you didnt want to improve then that content isnt for you. I however would like this type of content and would like them to add it as a challenge. You could do the casual content that gw2 offers in abundance instead with your friends.

[Mahou.3924]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > > @"Fallesafe.5932" said:

> > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > > > Why is teamwork rewarded over personal skill in this game so much. Everything seems to revolve around teamwork, and its rewarded as such.

> > > >

> > > > For two reasons:

> > > >

> > > > 1) 99.999% of players are **not** that insanely skilled individual. They actually vaguely resent that individual... and would scream bloody murder if he was given access to any rewards they didn't also have super-easy access to.

> > > >

> > > > 2) Anet plays to (and markets to) these sentiments **heavily**... The resentful, zero-skill bozo finds a home in this MMO that he couldn't find in any other.

> > >

> > > Thats pretty sad and I agree with you, I gravitate towards games like bloodborne which I have plantinumed as well as hollow knight which I have just recently 100%. Its sad this game doesn't have solo content on par with the type of challenge and skill that is required to complete these types of games. If the player base doesn't improve and is challenged and properly rewarded, then where is the incentive to play, get better and improve oneself.

> >

> > I hate games like bloodborne and darksouls, and id rather not have that kind of "skill" required in any content in this game. My reflexes while fast, arent good enough to make those games enjoyable to play.

> >

> > The player base in this game will not improve by adding content like that, instead you will drive players off. *EVERY* *SINGLE* *TIME* Anet adds even remotely "challenging" content to the game it gets nerfed because of the number of ultra casual players that play this game, the exception being the latest iteration of the Queens Gauntlet.

>

> Then you arent skilled enough to persevere at what I'm proposing and you would not be able to complete it unless you improved. You couldnt blame anyone but yourself and if you didnt want to improve then that content isnt for you. I however would like this type of content and would like them to add it as a challenge. You could do the casual content that gw2 offers in abundance instead with your friends.

 

The other possibility is that A.Net doesn't care what you personally want and decides to keep their current difficulty settings which assumingly most other players - other than you - prefer.

[voltaicbore.8012]

Eh. I feel OP's real complaint is really just about rewards, and not really about skill/challenge whatsoever.

 

I'm of the opinion that if you are the type of person who really does care about improvement and overcoming challenges, getting a new shiny out of the experience is not a priority. In other words, skill is its own reward if self-improvement and reaching the apex of personal skill actually matter to you. I get the feeling you just want more rewards

- whether that be access to legendary sets or a visible spot on some leaderboard - for whatever it is you already do.

 

If this sounds accusatory, my bad - it's not meant to be, and I apply this thinking to myself first and foremost. I've been plat in spvp the last few seasons, and nowadays I only play ranked to keep the plat badge next to my nameplate. I used to think that I loved ranked pvp just for its heightened competition, but given how much losing the plat badge bothers me, I realized my love for the mode was not as pure as I thought it was. In fact, if I could keep my plat badge around without queuing ranked, I'd probably stop queuing ranked unless I wanted to work up a second legendary set of pvp armor.

 

So I'm not saying that OP has no love for skill and self-improvement, but that said love is deeply tainted by a simple desire to be rewarded more highly for stuff he already does. I don't think Anet should cater to that, just as I think it's a good thing they won't let me keep my plat badge without actually doing ranked.

 

 

[Axelteas.7192]

This is the least solo friendly game I ever played.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Axelteas.7192" said:

> This is the least solo friendly game I ever played.

 

I hope that was sarcasm, as outside of raids and fractals you can pretty much do everything by yourself.

[Jski.6180]

The thing is teamwork has been hit by the lack of updates to combo with other ppl. As well as letting most classes self combo. It was the main thing i got this game for the team work of combos.

[Biff.5312]

This is the deliberate design of the game. This is akin to the complaint that there's no true tank class in GW2 - that's on purpose. If you don't like the design of this game, there are others to play.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

Depends on what your definition of "rewards" are. Now if it comes to gold accumulation (which seems to be a good measure because so many people don't have much), that is done solo. So if we are to compare say the time it takes to run a world boss train vs an effective way to make gold solo, solo always wins by a long shot.

[Ari.4023]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> Would be nice if skill was rewarded properly like it is in every other game.

 

Funny you mention that. Do you know the game Dungeons and Dragons Online, in short DDO? I played that game in the past and it actually required skill to play. You could dodge monster blows, you could timely block hits with a shield. Then the creators decided that all that skilled play is "exploiting the system" and made all monsters attacks hit the moment the animations starts so it's impossible to dodge or block. Then the game became a statfest where only the elite who grinded for best equipment are relevant. The fun was killed.

 

Fortunatley, we _can_ dodge and block in GW2 and that is not going to change. So yeah, skill is rewarded in this game. Just that you don't need to be a hax pro korean level gamer to succeed.

[Axelteas.7192]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Axelteas.7192" said:

> > This is the least solo friendly game I ever played.

>

> I hope that was sarcasm, as outside of raids and fractals you can pretty much do everything by yourself.

 

tell me how to solo the citadel of flames when you have to click all pillars at the same time

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> Why is teamwork rewarded over personal skill in this game so much. Everything seems to revolve around teamwork, and its rewarded as such. While I'm ok with this, why are there almost no rewards for high skill. Example:

>

> Raids: oh I'm an insanely good player, but i dislike working with others, oh you get nothing no raids or pve content for u.

>

> I love teamwork and have meadiocre skill, - heres legendaries, thanks for showing up this week and chatting.

>

> Pvp - I have insane personal skill and destroy most players and hold most nodes.- oh you lose because someone is afk, no teamwork, 4v5 u lose.

>

> -im an average player but I love team work and we're all on team speak- tiny modicum of coordination with others = automatic win.

>

> Wvw - I have very high skill and solo kill small teams as well as run supply and escort dolyaks and scout = oh no reward for you, no wxp, karma or loot.

>

> I enjoy teamwork but have very low skill and I follow in a zero and press 1 = heres a ton of wxp, loot and participation.

>

> Would be nice if individual player skill was measured, mattered and was rewarded accordingly, like teamwork is.

 

Because it's an MMO.

[Teevell.1684]

The whole point of an MMO is there are other players with you. Sounds like it's not your game type, and you should go back to games like Bloodborne and Hollow Knight, both of which are great games but aren't for me, just like MMOs clearly aren't for you. Not everything is going to be for everyone.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Axelteas.7192" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > @"Axelteas.7192" said:

> > > This is the least solo friendly game I ever played.

> >

> > I hope that was sarcasm, as outside of raids and fractals you can pretty much do everything by yourself.

>

> tell me how to solo the citadel of flames when you have to click all pillars at the same time

 

Go check youtube. It actually is Solo able. Funny you would pick the 1 dungeon which can be worked around.

 

Also picking 1-2 dungeon paths with intended mechanics is a pretty poor argument when literally 95% of the game are designed to be played solo or solo possible. Especially since almost all dungeon paths can be soloed without work around.

 

I guess you must be new to the game.

[Raknar.4735]

> @"Axelteas.7192" said:

> This is the least solo friendly game I ever played.

 

I actually kind of agree with that. It is true that most of the content in this game can be done without a group, but most events aren't designed to be done by one player. Even though you can play "solo", you will still need help from others also running around "solo".

 

I'd like having replayable solo content, with meaningful rewards. There's already some pretty nice solo stuff, like the Caladbolg story or the dwarven ruins in Desert Highlands, but they are a one time thing.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > Why is teamwork rewarded over personal skill in this game so much. Everything seems to revolve around teamwork, and its rewarded as such. While I'm ok with this, why are there almost no rewards for high skill. Example:

> >

> > Raids: oh I'm an insanely good player, but i dislike working with others, oh you get nothing no raids or pve content for u.

> >

> > I love teamwork and have meadiocre skill, - heres legendaries, thanks for showing up this week and chatting.

> >

> > Pvp - I have insane personal skill and destroy most players and hold most nodes.- oh you lose because someone is afk, no teamwork, 4v5 u lose.

> >

> > -im an average player but I love team work and we're all on team speak- tiny modicum of coordination with others = automatic win.

> >

> > Wvw - I have very high skill and solo kill small teams as well as run supply and escort dolyaks and scout = oh no reward for you, no wxp, karma or loot.

> >

> > I enjoy teamwork but have very low skill and I follow in a zero and press 1 = heres a ton of wxp, loot and participation.

> >

> > Would be nice if individual player skill was measured, mattered and was rewarded accordingly, like teamwork is.

>

> Because it's an MMO.

 

Oh so because it's an mmo, then there should be absolutly no solo only content that is difficult and is properly rewaded? Didnt know that was in the manual.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @"Teevell.1684" said:

> The whole point of an MMO is there are other players with you. Sounds like it's not your game type, and you should go back to games like Bloodborne and Hollow Knight, both of which are great games but aren't for me, just like MMOs clearly aren't for you. Not everything is going to be for everyone.

 

No I think I'd like them to change it instead since I've probably played this game and gw1 which was more solo friendly, longer then you have.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > Why is teamwork rewarded over personal skill in this game so much. Everything seems to revolve around teamwork, and its rewarded as such. While I'm ok with this, why are there almost no rewards for high skill. Example:

> > >

> > > Raids: oh I'm an insanely good player, but i dislike working with others, oh you get nothing no raids or pve content for u.

> > >

> > > I love teamwork and have meadiocre skill, - heres legendaries, thanks for showing up this week and chatting.

> > >

> > > Pvp - I have insane personal skill and destroy most players and hold most nodes.- oh you lose because someone is afk, no teamwork, 4v5 u lose.

> > >

> > > -im an average player but I love team work and we're all on team speak- tiny modicum of coordination with others = automatic win.

> > >

> > > Wvw - I have very high skill and solo kill small teams as well as run supply and escort dolyaks and scout = oh no reward for you, no wxp, karma or loot.

> > >

> > > I enjoy teamwork but have very low skill and I follow in a zero and press 1 = heres a ton of wxp, loot and participation.

> > >

> > > Would be nice if individual player skill was measured, mattered and was rewarded accordingly, like teamwork is.

> >

> > Because it's an MMO.

>

> Oh so because it's an mmo, then there should be absolutly no solo only content that is difficult and is properly rewaded? Didnt know that was in the manual.

 

You asked why teamwork was rewarded over personal skill ... I gave you the answer. I didn't say anything about not having solo content properly rewarded though if you want better rewards from soloing, maybe you should be more direct and have suggestion instead of thinly-veiled question as a complaint about it. Especially don't jump down my throat because your angry about it.

 

If you don't like the reward structure of MMO's, don't play them. It's really odd to complain about the difficulty of solo content in an MMO designed around casual play after playing as long as you have. Maybe you didn't get that idea when you started playing ... the difficulty of the content should have been a hint to you, especially when people started soloing dungeons. I mean, who would commit years of game duration playing an MMO expecting really hard solo content that gets rewards that match the difficulty when you claim there is none? That doesn't make sense. What do you think Anet is going to do to give you that hard solo content with the matching reward? Rework the whole game and ignore it's currently established market of players that took 6 years to build? OK sure ..

[Diak Atoli.2085]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > @"Teevell.1684" said:

> > The whole point of an MMO is there are other players with you. Sounds like it's not your game type, and you should go back to games like Bloodborne and Hollow Knight, both of which are great games but aren't for me, just like MMOs clearly aren't for you. Not everything is going to be for everyone.

>

> No I think I'd like them to change it instead since I've probably played this game and gw1 which was more solo friendly, longer then you have.

 

I would like them to keep developing GW2 in the direction they are currently taking.

 

As well, instead of making assumptions of who's played longer or spent more money, I will simply state: All opinions are equal.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Raknar.4735" said:

> > @"Axelteas.7192" said:

> > This is the least solo friendly game I ever played.

>

> I actually kind of agree with that. It is true that most of the content in this game can be done without a group, but most events aren't designed to be done by one player. Even though you can play "solo", you will still need help from others also running around "solo".

>

> I'd like having replayable solo content, with meaningful rewards. There's already some pretty nice solo stuff, like the Caladbolg story or the dwarven ruins in Desert Highlands, but they are a one time thing.

 

Except for meta events, just about all events, adventures, story instances, holiday events, dungeons, living world episodes, etc. are doable solo (some require a certain amount of player skill though).

 

You are correct, most meta events are designed to be run as a group of players but do not require grouping or much coordination.

 

Now what are we comparing this too? Dungeons/instances in other MMOs? Open world content in other MMOs? Endgame gear acquisition in other MMOs? How exactly is this game solo unfriendly when most other MMOs actually require you to participate in group or raid content to even be eligible for gear or loot?