Are gankers bad players?

[Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365]

I see so many people saying that you will never get better by gankning. How do you know that? I dont know how many times Ive gnaked some1 only to find out THEIR gank friends were around the corner and it turns into a very nice fight.

Alot of gankees turn the tables really well. Does that mean either parts are bad? Who the heck knows until you engage in a fight.

[AliamRationem.5172]

Old thread, but ever a current topic of discussion.

 

You've heard of the Golden Rule, right? Well, in WvW we play by the Red Rule: If it's red, it's dead. This is not necessarily a directive to kill enemy players on sight. It merely sets the expectation. Players in WvW should expect no mercy from enemy players. If you think about it, it saves us a lot of trouble. When a player is killed, it's always fair game. The circumstances of the kill don't matter at all. Simple.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

> @"Sansar.1302" said:

> Most of the people that gank with 3+ people are truly horrible players with no reaction or any kind of skill. (btw douos are free bags 50% of the time and dont mind them at all ) I only hate it when you get swarmed.

> I think belive the problem is that some only care fore points and match as whole and other only care about the fights ( And the quality of them)

> And yes I can understand that it is frustrating to get killed 1v1 when you try to get back your grp or when you get killed 1v1 and did no dmg at all to the attacker.

>

> Skill in this game mode is so important and many dont know how to handle their class at all (think of this in PVE a really good player have 10x damage output than the average joe according to a-net ) (might not have been 10x but it where brutal difference )

 

as if skill would matter. If you are on a squad build and be jumped (out of stealth) by some ganker with a gank buil, you are just toast. Skill does not play any role in that.

 

Gankers are just trolls. Nothing else.

[Sovereign.1093]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> Old thread, but ever a current topic of discussion.

>

> You've heard of the Golden Rule, right? Well, in WvW we play by the Red Rule: If it's red, it's dead. This is not necessarily a directive to kill enemy players on sight. It merely sets the expectation. Players in WvW should expect no mercy from enemy players. If you think about it, it saves us a lot of trouble. When a player is killed, it's always fair game. The circumstances of the kill don't matter at all. Simple.

 

The red law. :3

 

If it's red, it's dead.

[Doug.4930]

As has been said before in this thread ganking is MMO slang derived from the word "gang" such as when its used in the context of "ganging up" on someone. You can't gang up on someone when you're alone.

 

If you get jumped on the way back to your zerg by a solo player running a solo roaming build you were not "ganked".

 

OP outlined this at the very beginning of their post and yet people still call getting killed by a solo player ganking. Its not. You can call it cheesed or farmed, or camped or whatever else you like. But its not ganking unless its an actual gang thats killing you.

[Kovu.7560]

> @"Doug.4930" said:

> As has been said before in this thread ganking is MMO slang derived from the word "gang" such as when its used in the context of "ganging up" on someone. You can't gang up on someone when you're alone.

>

> If you get jumped on the way back to your zerg by a solo player running a solo roaming build you were not "ganked".

>

> OP outlined this at the very beginning of their post and yet people still call getting killed by a solo player ganking. Its not. You can call it cheesed or farmed, or camped or whatever else you like. But its not ganking unless its an actual gang thats killing you.

 

A lot of people will use the term to describe a roamer taking out a zerg build trying to get back to their group. (Such as a ranger popping a scourge.) People will also use it to describe individual players being taken out by a group of players _while with their group_ (usually glass builds caught off tag).

 

I'm not bothered by somewhat broadened use of the terminology that we as a gaming community use to describe various scenarios. I'm sure a staff elementalist being popped by a (basically) instantaneous backstab/heartseeker quickness burst from stealth feels pretty "ganked". If you prefer to use the expression "picked off", that's fine too. The expression of "ganked" in gaming is just a word used to describe taking out an unexpecting or less experienced player. Numberical advantage often comes with that, but not always.

 

~ Kovu

[enkidu.5937]

Skilled player makes a kill: bow or just go on for the next one

 

Gankers make a kill: they jump on corpse to show that they are so happy to finally have made one

 

-> "Gankers = bad players" confirmed

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"enkidu.5937" said:

> Skilled player makes a kill: bow or just go on for the next one

>

> Gankers make a kill: they jump on corpse to show that they are so happy to finally have made one

>

> -> "Gankers = bad players" confirmed

Good to know.

 

The next time I am in a zerg that kills someone 50v1 I'll remind everyone to do /bow on the corpse as that absolves us of all sins and makes us all skilled.

[enkidu.5937]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"enkidu.5937" said:

> > Skilled player makes a kill: bow or just go on for the next one

> >

> > Gankers make a kill: they jump on corpse to show that they are so happy to finally have made one

> >

> > -> "Gankers = bad players" confirmed

> Good to know.

>

> The next time I am in a zerg that kills someone 50v1 I'll remind everyone to do /bow on the corpse as that absolves us of all sins and makes us all skilled.

Oh boi, u missed the singular: "skilled player", not "skilled playerS"

 

E. g. atm in EU T1: a known guild with 30 (presumably skilled) players sticks and moves as one dot and farms single players -> ganking

(they might be pissed because they couldnt do scrims, but hey, thats WvW I guess xD)

[Justine.6351]

> @"enkidu.5937" said:

> Skilled player makes a kill: bow or just go on for the next one

>

> Gankers make a kill: they jump on corpse to show that they are so happy to finally have made one

>

> -> "Gankers = bad players" confirmed

 

The same people you end up killing and then they logout before you can finish the stomp rofl ;-)

 

Salty bois are the best kills.

[Moira Shalaar.5620]

There are a lot of different reasons for a play style that others may disapprove of. For my own guild we have had a lot of success in bringing in previously PvE only players and encouraging them and teaching them how to also play in WvW. Many of them have never experienced any sort of PvP and haven't developed those kinds of skills yet. Part of that success in recruiting PvE players though is through a strong squad loyalty. If someone starts picking off our squad around the edges, from behind etc, they get destroyed. We take care of our own, we come back for our own, and we teach every roamer that if they want to pick ours off, they will themselves also be picked off with prejudice. We are willing to pursue a single player across the map to convey that message. If they don't like it, then don't do it again. And if that means that we sometimes get steamrolled by a larger squad, so be it. It is a part of our squad cohesion and esprit de corps.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

I follow the red = dead rule with few exceptions....

 

- If you are attacking ghosts or harpy, I wont touch you until they are dead ( I may even help) Same with champs.

- If you are in the JP (which I do once/week) whether in ABL or OS, I wont touch you if you dont touch me. I spec for dueling regardless just in case, however I will keep some distance so I dont pose a threat. We are all there for the same non combat reason.

- I will down, but not always stomp a "baby rank" (anything pre bronze) UNLESS it has proven to be someone formidable or someone that knows how to work their toon (ie f2p acct for someone that has paid acct WvW experience)

- If there is a duel going on and you are watching, I wont attack unless I tag ya for a duel. Also I wont attack someone in a duel unless they go for the stomp (which is against the duelers rules in a 1v1 or if someone stomps the last person in a group duel).

[Sansar.1302]

> @"Moira Shalaar.5620" said:

> There are a lot of different reasons for a play style that others may disapprove of. For my own guild we have had a lot of success in bringing in previously PvE only players and encouraging them and teaching them how to also play in WvW. Many of them have never experienced any sort of PvP and haven't developed those kinds of skills yet. Part of that success in recruiting PvE players though is through a strong squad loyalty. If someone starts picking off our squad around the edges, from behind etc, they get destroyed. We take care of our own, we come back for our own, and we teach every roamer that if they want to pick ours off, they will themselves also be picked off with prejudice. We are willing to pursue a single player across the map to convey that message. If they don't like it, then don't do it again. And if that means that we sometimes get steamrolled by a larger squad, so be it. It is a part of our squad cohesion and esprit de corps.

 

This is a problem, I bet you always try to cap something.

Then those players will never learn to handle their class , and in the end that kind of players end up always being 1 pushed in 50v50 and they become karma train players.

This game mode is getting more and more carebear/Pve mentality :C

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"enkidu.5937" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"enkidu.5937" said:

> > > Skilled player makes a kill: bow or just go on for the next one

> > >

> > > Gankers make a kill: they jump on corpse to show that they are so happy to finally have made one

> > >

> > > -> "Gankers = bad players" confirmed

> > Good to know.

> >

> > The next time I am in a zerg that kills someone 50v1 I'll remind everyone to do /bow on the corpse as that absolves us of all sins and makes us all skilled.

> Oh boi, u missed the singular: "skilled player", not "skilled playerS"

>

> E. g. atm in EU T1: a known guild with 30 (presumably skilled) players sticks and moves as one dot and farms single players -> ganking

> (they might be pissed because they couldnt do scrims, but hey, thats WvW I guess xD)

So what you are saying is that if those 30 do /bow, at least one of them will be skilled? Thats singular. Guess they just have to kill 30 people 30v1, do /bow and then all will be skilled.

 

[enkidu.5937]

> @"Moira Shalaar.5620" said:

> If someone starts picking off our squad around the edges, from behind etc, they get destroyed. We take care of our own, we come back for our own, and we teach every roamer that if they want to pick ours off, they will themselves also be picked off with prejudice. We are willing to pursue a single player across the map to convey that message.

^^ funny but true. At the end most ppl will join a fight (even if its 10 vs. 5 for their server) and assist their teammates. The absolute minority counts the ppl involved on both sides and only jump in if it would still be a fair fight with equal numbers.

 

Finally, almost all zergs are gankers: strip stab, pull, kill the isolated enemy or stragglers.

 

So, lets be real: WvW is a gank game, chase and run, run and chase all day long B) (except some scrims)

 

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> So what you are saying is that if those 30 do /bow, at least one of them will be skilled? Thats singular. Guess they just have to kill 30 people 30v1, do /bow and then all will be skilled.

Ehm no, I was saying that ppl who jump on corpses are bad players.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"enkidu.5937" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > So what you are saying is that if those 30 do /bow, at least one of them will be skilled? Thats singular. Guess they just have to kill 30 people 30v1, do /bow and then all will be skilled.

> Ehm no, I was saying that ppl who jump on corpses are bad players.

But we are talking about /bow, not jumping on others. You made it the defining feature of a skilled player.

 

[enkidu.5937]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"enkidu.5937" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > So what you are saying is that if those 30 do /bow, at least one of them will be skilled? Thats singular. Guess they just have to kill 30 people 30v1, do /bow and then all will be skilled.

> > Ehm no, I was saying that ppl who jump on corpses are bad players.

> But we are talking about /bow, not jumping on others. You made it the defining feature of a skilled player.

>

No, I sad that skilled players either bow or just move on to the next fight. And that corps jumping confirms bad players.

 

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"enkidu.5937" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"enkidu.5937" said:

> > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > So what you are saying is that if those 30 do /bow, at least one of them will be skilled? Thats singular. Guess they just have to kill 30 people 30v1, do /bow and then all will be skilled.

> > > Ehm no, I was saying that ppl who jump on corpses are bad players.

> > But we are talking about /bow, not jumping on others. You made it the defining feature of a skilled player.

> >

> No, I sad that skilled players either bow or just move on to the next fight. And that corps jumping confirms bad players.

>

Exactly. Since moving on to the next fight is rather normal, then /bow is what defines the skilled player.

 

Now, the *real* question here is, what happens if I /bow to someone I kill, then the next one I kill I jump on?

 

*mind blown*

 

[Yasai.3549]

Bad player is a bad player.

Good player is a good player.

 

Ganking doesn't make a person a bad player.

 

If yur so unhappy about being ganked, make it a point to stalk their camps and X it to see if they come and defend, then face them down in a 1v1 and determine if they are good or bad based on the result.

Most of they time if I get ganked, I'll just see what led to my death, and try not to do it again.

 

 

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> Exactly. Since moving on to the next fight is rather normal, then /bow is what defines the skilled player.

>

> Now, the *real* question here is, what happens if I /bow to someone I kill, then the next one I kill I jump on?

>

> *mind blown*

 

Lol looks like he just doesn't understand the concept of respect and bowing is to show respect.

There are plenty of skilled players who have no respect for anyone but themselves and jumps on anything jump-able, including off the side of a cliff.

 

I bowed to plenty of people, but make it a point to jump on any Thief I kill even if they have people coming in to kill me.

I have no respect for Thieves.

 

 

[Elmo Benchwarmer.3025]

If you manage to only ever fight to your advantage you're certainly doing something right.

 

That said, ganking isn't any worse or cheesier than (ab)using overperforming roaming builds many of which are utterly indestructible in small engagements.

[Moira Shalaar.5620]

> @"Sansar.1302" said:

> This is a problem, I bet you always try to cap something.

> Then those players will never learn to handle their class , and in the end that kind of players end up always being 1 pushed in 50v50 and they become karma train players.

> This game mode is getting more and more carebear/Pve mentality :C

 

Thank you for your concern regarding the long term viability of our PvE recruits into our WvW squad, however you make some also inaccurate assumptions and then draw incorrect conclusions on the basis thereof. While we do *strategically* cap points, we also hunt havoc groups, go toe to toe with other T1 squads among other things. We TRAIN our PvE players on how to play WvW, everything from differences in gear to build traits to squad composition and the tactics that work well with our squad approach. They are involved in both medium squad and small havoc group actions and are frequently involved in individual PvP fights. We also do after action reviews to discuss what went well and what could have been done better so that we all learn from engagements.

 

As for your carebear comment, you are clearly welcome to believe whatever you want, and I am unlikely to change that regardless, however our policy of leave no one behind is also shared by some of the US Elite military forces (Army Rangers, US Marines), which leaves the carebear accusation entirely without standing at least as far as my own guild is concerned.

 

So, as you can see, your concerns are unfounded, but thank you.

[enkidu.5937]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> Lol looks like he just doesn't understand the concept of respect

Clearly, its you who doesnt have the merest clue what respect means, since you wrote

 

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> There are plenty of skilled players who have no respect for anyone but themselves and jumps on anything jump-able, including off the side of a cliff.

>

> I bowed to plenty of people, but make it a point to jump on any Thief I kill even if they have people coming in to kill me.

> I have no respect for Thieves.

So youre a bad player, thats obivous. Good players dont show bad manners towards their enemies just because they play a specific class.

 

So you have massive problems with thief and are super happy if you manage to kill one, thats ok you can practise more and maybe one day you can manage such cheese builds and dont need to insult your enemies with corpse jumping. Your bad character makes you a bad player, its sooo simple bro B)

 

[Zepoolpe.9217]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > @"Shadowcat.2680" said:

> > I've always thought "ganking" meant 100 to 0ing someone unexpectedly (e.g. from stealth).

>

> "Ganking: It is a word commonly used in online video games, usualy used in an MMORPG. Ganking is the process in which a group of characters gang up on one or more players that do not have a chance to defend themselves..." Meaning, outnumbering.

Does not mean necessarly outnumbering you: some builds can make it so that if you open on them by surprise (usually that means opening either from stealth or by shadowstepping from a "hidden" position), you down them before they can react by a combination of bursts and stunlocks (ie: one-shotting).

 

Can you tell if they are good or bad player by that feat? Not really: the only way to tell if they are good players or not is if the initial attack does not kill you (either because you are good and managed to react before eveything is over OR because you are using some build that prevent being one-shotting by using defensive procs or high health.

Then you can tell if they are good players or not: once in this position, most bad players will either try to reset the fight (by stealthing or running away) or just quickly die. Why? because they just know that one-shot trick and nothing else really about their profession so they cannot really sustain a longer fight.

 

I've been ganked by some players that knew their profession and build so well that even when quickly outnumbered 3 or 4 v1 were able to hold their own. until they were either crushed by sheer number OR by doing that 1 big mistake from which you cannot recover...

 

Also, you spoke about the WvW rank.. WvW rank does not means they player is a good duelist .. hell .. it is not even means he's a good player: it just means he spent a lot of time in WvW.

What did he do during that time? K-trains on EotM? Zerging during off-hours? Blobing during prime time on a stacked server?

That does not makes you necessarly a good WvW player, and that certainly does not makes you a good roamer or duelist, and even if they are, they could be on a zerging build which might not be that effective for a 1v1...

[kratan.4619]

I've found the reverse actually, the solo gankers trying to pick off zerglings trying to get to their commander are the ones who will not "get better". They sit around in their 1v1 builds trying to catch people who are not optimized for 1v1 combat so they can have easy kills.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Zepoolpe.9217" said:

> > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said:

> > > I've always thought "ganking" meant 100 to 0ing someone unexpectedly (e.g. from stealth).

> >

> > "Ganking: It is a word commonly used in online video games, usualy used in an MMORPG. Ganking is the process in which a group of characters gang up on one or more players that do not have a chance to defend themselves..." Meaning, outnumbering.

> Does not mean necessarly outnumbering you: some builds can make it so that if you open on them by surprise (usually that means opening either from stealth or by shadowstepping from a "hidden" position), you down them before they can react by a combination of bursts and stunlocks (ie: one-shotting).

>

> Can you tell if they are good or bad player by that feat? Not really: the only way to tell if they are good players or not is if the initial attack does not kill you (either because you are good and managed to react before eveything is over OR because you are using some build that prevent being one-shotting by using defensive procs or high health.

> Then you can tell if they are good players or not: once in this position, most bad players will either try to reset the fight (by stealthing or running away) or just quickly die. Why? because they just know that one-shot trick and nothing else really about their profession so they cannot really sustain a longer fight.

>

> I've been ganked by some players that knew their profession and build so well that even when quickly outnumbered 3 or 4 v1 were able to hold their own. until they were either crushed by sheer number OR by doing that 1 big mistake from which you cannot recover...

>

> Also, you spoke about the WvW rank.. WvW rank does not means they player is a good duelist .. hell .. it is not even means he's a good player: it just means he spent a lot of time in WvW.

> What did he do during that time? K-trains on EotM? Zerging during off-hours? Blobing during prime time on a stacked server?

> That does not makes you necessarly a good WvW player, and that certainly does not makes you a good roamer or duelist, and even if they are, they could be on a zerging build which might not be that effective for a 1v1...

 

Even when there were several legitimate 1-shot builds available, I didn't see a lot of pros complaining about losing to noobs. Have they just been keeping quiet to protect their memes?