Constructive Feedback Regarding The Current State of WvW

[L A T I O N.8923]

I do like your comments and constructive critisism, and scourge and firebrands are Essentials for the group. This game does a good job in 'balancing' some of the classes towards a spot they want IT. But are horrible at doing so, the more elite specs that Will be released, the more imbalance IT Will bring. Its like a web, on which anet cant easily get out

 

The problem anet encountered can be prooved in the simple matter of balance. anet not always have a clue, just gonna give necro An example:

 

Scourge and reaper aim for the same spot(wvw based not player based): Reaper Being big damage melee cleave , and scourge shades can be used on downs so they cant be rezed (thus light shade cleave).

 

Either classes had several balance patches on which anet tried to pull the classes to eachother, pre pof Reaper was (powerbased) in a great spot: they had 33%damage buff on Reaper skills, quickness in shroud and other damage buff ever since. They have autoattack of 7k now..but what am i complaining so has soulbeast?

 

I find the most problems in 'trying to balance' with making skills a little more viable to spamming (be honest if you beserk and semi skilled in a class, spamming would be the best option if you face someone whose better).

 

The spamming is where i see the problem with Both the current zerk-meta(firebrand, scourge and Herald) and roaming class (mirage and deadeyes) i suggest trying to work on this

 

There's too many spamming options in this game currently, too many skills effect And sync well with traitlines, who sync with other traitlines etc. A good example is boonbeast on pvp who has 5 traitlines working on Just the healing skill. Or the Guardian: running valor makes IT run meditations and Smite condition on the healing: i suggest the syncing traitlines to be out from stacking. Thus running this: lit of wrath counts as 1 meditations and not 2 since the additional of lsc.

 

Secondly i suggest an internal cooldown of option on firebrand on either the tomes or utilities, im talking here on 2 options:

Give a ammo-based-currency on a tome (like 20 ammo on a tome) and each skill cost 1-5 ammo (depending on skillnumber). Spamming would not be rewarded on this matter

Or

Give no option to cast utility skills when in a tome, making it placebound and more 'thoughtfull' to use the tome.

Both of this Will provide a harder way to sustain/support for firebrand giving other supports a viable option.

 

 

 

The problem i find the same with mirage: its capable of attacking/defending at the same time, while other classes have to choose their utility skills (you need stunbreaks and condiclears otherwise you derped) mirage has that in dodges. Making it viable to take An all offensive skillbar, if i did this on necro, guard, ele id get punnished right away, why cant mirage?

 

Secondly, its the only class who can Burst you down when they are dodging. So they only need to wait till you stupid enough to burst. The worst thing is the dodging animation/sound: since its allready surrounded by effects its really hard to tell. A combat tonic (kodan, watchknight etc) makes this even harder and more frustrating

 

This choice of being offensive and defensive does screw a good 1v1: salt kills salt and cheese kills cheese. There's An escellation of IT i feel in the game for a long time. Wvw been a gamemode of veterans and new players, blobs and roamers and fairweathers and hardcore players, bandwagons and loyalists

 

I love it how IT is...the gamemode is rewarding by itself. I just hope it Will be more designed for 10-20man groups with large variaties instead of either 40man groups and 1-2 man roaming.

[Israel.7056]

There is almost no amount of numerical nerfing to scourge that could happen that would make an engi or ranger or thief a suitable substitute. This is not a numbers issue its a design issue. The necro is THE anti melee dps everything about it is designed to keep melee off them without moving very much. No other class is designed this way.

[Ni In.6578]

> @"Caysadia.7405" said:

> > @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> > Scourges are easily, and I mean **Easily** dealt with by both rangers and revs, to the point scourges are all but nullified in groups.

>

> I dont know about this one buddy

 

Can confirm. Scourages are like popcorn in the microwave with a CoR and a leap.

[Xterra.6172]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> FB has too many skills added to the class but because of this you need classes like scorge. Its about as "22" as can be you MUST go after both classes in the same update to fix them in wvw.

>

> Revs problem is all of its big skills get culled when any thing else is going on to the point that there dmg and skill are comply lacking any tell for ppl. Its border line game exploitation.

>

> The other classes are not as bad and have high weakness that can be dealt with by using the right class but FB and scorge are way overpowers but because of each other. As for rev it just exploring the game because the skills are too flashy and get culled most of the time.

 

people seem to ignore the rev skill animation cull. getting hit with 1200 range hammer damage without seeing a body flying through the air or the big hammer projection wind up happens regularly.

[TheGrimm.5624]

I think we had a number of posts over the last few weeks that rangers still aren't welcome in squads. To your point above, Scourages are welcome and one of their hard counters are Soulbeasts. I play both, and other classes including core builds, and no I wouldn't say they are out of line of others, IMO. Without more boon conversion the game would come down to who has the more buffs win, its still pretty close now on those regards when it comes down to zerg on zerg.

 

In regards to the state of WvW I would rank issues with map staleness pretty high and the balance between attackers and defenders right now highly favors attackers. There still isn't as much reason/reward for defending that there is for assaulting. The mentality of let them flip it is still pretty strong. There is also still the imbalance of higher numbers win in group fights as well that might be addressed by a review of the rez/revive/spike mechanics that has been floated on the forums under a number of threads. On the alliance front there still remains a lot we will need to wait and see to go on. On map staleness, by now I had hoped we would have been at a point where we have weekly rotations of maps that would encourage people to change up techniques each week depending on what maps were rotated in and out and each server would have a different map. Again I am biased coming from an RvR game that had a vast number of different maps from the start to fight across. Playing on two of the same maps for 5+ years and, well it's stale. I am not saying go with a mega map like ESO but new maps should have been introduced along the way. We get new maps every living story, add points of control and drop some of those into WvW to mix it up.

 

To me the period approach in scoring still helps offset night capping, the carry over of participation was a needed and welcome change, the reward balance feels good and we have a path to legendary armor. The +1/-1 week system means we get a regular mix up of people we are facing unless you are in the very top or very bottom. And next to server closures the joint server approach has allowed people to meet people they never would have in the past and new friends can be made even if in 8 weeks you might be back to facing them on the otherside. WvW still remains to be end-game and by keeping the people and places we fight diverse I think a little can go a long way.

 

Any way, 2 cents since you asked, and no I wouldn't rank class balance in there when talking about WvW changes since there is another team for balance already. I would target on what keeps a player coming back week over week and what would encourage others that left a reason to come back out and get into the dust up. Either case, good gaming to you!

[Justine.6351]

Lol @

 

Rev hammer do too much damage

Rev hammer cooldowns too low

Rev hammer animation too hard to see

 

If they made changes to those things 6 months later people would be complaining about

 

Rev hammer do too much damage

Rev hammer cooldowns too low

Rev hammer animation too hard to see

Rev hammer has too many blast

Rev hammer has too much projectile denial

 

Rev hammer will always be a ranged damage dealer due to the nature of the skills, regardless of how much anet would nerf it. Better learn how to deal with it now than to complain for it to go the way of staff elementalists.

[shiri.4257]

Anet needs to hire a developer or moderator with a "Git Gud" stamp for all these threads.

[Zero.3871]

> @"Caysadia.7405" said:

 

> **TLDR: Scourge and Firebrand are way too dominant and stifle any competition in their roles, Rev is alright but may need a look at its cds if scourge and fb get nerfed, Soulbeast mirage and deadeye are extremely unfun to fight against and have too much reward for how little risk they have, ...**

 

dont know on which Server you are playing. but firebrand and scourge are not the Problem imo. you say boon hate of scourge is too great? i just could laugh when i red that. in fact no number of scourges is able to deny the boonspam of revs and FBs,..... you have **rev glint every 3 seconds 3-4 boons on 5 persons**.

 

you have **warrior stances every seconds** boons.

 

you have **Fb tomes and Symbols spamming every seconds tonnes of boons.** the only way to kill a Frontline at These days is the combination of WoD and FULL BOMB of scourge boonhate because the WoD is denying reapply of boons. otherwise no Chance for scourges.

 

in zergfights scourges are heavily outranged by revs and eles and never can pirate ship like you say cause they would get insta oneshotted when they just TRY to come in range for spiking.

 

on the other side FB and their aegis spam is the only Thing that counter current rev hammer Trains. without FB aegis rev would one shoot everything in zergfights.

herald is good balanced xD. i am main necro but i mostly Play power rev with hammer in zergs because this class is maximum busted. a class that is able to hit a full Minstrel FB with 10k dmg - sry but calling that balanced is just a bit delusional^^.

 

tbh this days its harder to find necros for our zergs since most People prefer to Play rev because rev does more dmg, more boons, has more Sustain and mobility. only Thing scourge is better is boonhate. **playing necro in zergs feels like sitting in a FB jail**. go out and you got punished. and even devouring Darkness is just a joke when facing the massive boonspam current meta delivers.

 

and the only classes that are not heavily presented in current zerg meta are the medium armor classes (thief, ranger, engi). These classe get mostly just used by guilds (DD staff for backline pressure), engi smoke field blast for invis,....

 

all other classes have good representation. mostly 20% scourge (boonhate), 20% FB (Overall support), 20% herald (dmg) , 20% ele (dmg), 10 % Warriors(for push pressure and WoD), 10% mesmers (utility like Portal, vail, gravi).

 

in zergmeta anet just should Focusing on bringing medium armor classes in the meta by improving their utilities they already have (like i wrote: Staff DD or engi with smokefields). for the rest, the zergmeta is fine. best we have since a Long time.

 

**in roaming** the Problem with called classes (soulbeast, Mirage, i would add holo and core warri) is like you correctly say. just too much of everything in just 1 build. while DE is tamed i think. counterplay exist, thats fine.

 

anet just Need to remove one of the Points (high mobility, high sustain, high dmg) from These builds to bring them in line with other classes.

 

i mean necros can do some dmg, but are immobile af. (low mobility - low sustain - high dmg)

eles can tank a bunch of People as weaver but lacking dmg than ( high Sustain - okayish mobility - low dmg)

 

thats the way classes should be designed. strenghtess AND weaknesses. not just strenghts.

 

 

 

 

 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

anet should focus on improving the infrastructure of their game instead of expacs with op specs. it would bring way more people in. theyre finally doing so with alliances, swiss etc. whether or not it will help time will tell. that deals with balance (doesn't really but lets just say it does).

 

as for a big change like scoring, idk. its always been about ppt vs fights. personally I think the maps are way too big. at times you have to run around for 30 minutes across multiple maps to find a fight. other times one server will be attacking your t3 tower on eb, another server will be attacking your t3 bay, (keeping both keep wps tapped naturally), and with your one 40 man blob what are you supposed to do? go for bay. then you lose your t3 tower. the next time its t2 eb keep vs t2 hills? the next time? it destroys any sort of progress (hope) and makes ppl log out since they feel its unfair. there isn't enough coverage available for non blob servers.

 

imo anet shouldn't focus on reducing the amount of servers but the amount/size of maps. you can have only two servers and it could still take 30 minutes to find a fight, or you could be stretched too thin on coverage and slowly but inevitably lose. coverage/population is only soo important cuz there are too many damn things to cover. the current system assumes ppl will spread out into 1-2 blobs and multiple small man groups (that actually defend structures). this sort of happens now but people are too unorganized and the enemy blob is too powerful vs that small group of defenders (unless youre yb).

[Safandula.8723]

> @"DonkeyHaxor.4052" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > All they have to do is give other supports more access to stab if they want them to be more competitive with fb. It's really that simple.

>

> No, it really isn't. That is going to create a meta where its infinite stability and we have the same problem we have now except its a boon ball. The solution is to NERF the amount of things firebrand can do.

 

We alreadg have meta of infinite stability that fb gives. But I agree with ur solution

[Acyk.9671]

> @"Zero.3871" said:

> > @"Caysadia.7405" said:

>

> > **TLDR: Scourge and Firebrand are way too dominant and stifle any competition in their roles, Rev is alright but may need a look at its cds if scourge and fb get nerfed, Soulbeast mirage and deadeye are extremely unfun to fight against and have too much reward for how little risk they have, ...**

>

> dont know on which Server you are playing. but firebrand and scourge are not the Problem imo. you say boon hate of scourge is too great? i just could laugh when i red that. in fact no number of scourges is able to deny the boonspam of revs and FBs,..... you have **rev glint every 3 seconds 3-4 boons on 5 persons**.

>

> you have **warrior stances every seconds** boons.

>

> you have **Fb tomes and Symbols spamming every seconds tonnes of boons.** the only way to kill a Frontline at These days is the combination of WoD and FULL BOMB of scourge boonhate because the WoD is denying reapply of boons. otherwise no Chance for scourges.

>

> in zergfights scourges are heavily outranged by revs and eles and never can pirate ship like you say cause they would get insta oneshotted when they just TRY to come in range for spiking.

>

> on the other side FB and their aegis spam is the only Thing that counter current rev hammer Trains. without FB aegis rev would one shoot everything in zergfights.

> herald is good balanced xD. i am main necro but i mostly Play power rev with hammer in zergs because this class is maximum busted. a class that is able to hit a full Minstrel FB with 10k dmg - sry but calling that balanced is just a bit delusional^^.

>

> tbh this days its harder to find necros for our zergs since most People prefer to Play rev because rev does more dmg, more boons, has more Sustain and mobility. only Thing scourge is better is boonhate. **playing necro in zergs feels like sitting in a FB jail**. go out and you got punished. and even devouring Darkness is just a joke when facing the massive boonspam current meta delivers.

>

> and the only classes that are not heavily presented in current zerg meta are the medium armor classes (thief, ranger, engi). These classe get mostly just used by guilds (DD staff for backline pressure), engi smoke field blast for invis,....

>

> all other classes have good representation. mostly 20% scourge (boonhate), 20% FB (Overall support), 20% herald (dmg) , 20% ele (dmg), 10 % Warriors(for push pressure and WoD), 10% mesmers (utility like Portal, vail, gravi).

>

> in zergmeta anet just should Focusing on bringing medium armor classes in the meta by improving their utilities they already have (like i wrote: Staff DD or engi with smokefields). for the rest, the zergmeta is fine. best we have since a Long time.

>

> **in roaming** the Problem with called classes (soulbeast, Mirage, i would add holo and core warri) is like you correctly say. just too much of everything in just 1 build. while DE is tamed i think. counterplay exist, thats fine.

>

> anet just Need to remove one of the Points (high mobility, high sustain, high dmg) from These builds to bring them in line with other classes.

>

> i mean necros can do some dmg, but are immobile af. (low mobility - low sustain - high dmg)

> eles can tank a bunch of People as weaver but lacking dmg than ( high Sustain - okayish mobility - low dmg)

>

> thats the way classes should be designed. strenghtess AND weaknesses. not just strenghts.

>

>

>

>

>

 

OP fails to understand that Rev is a problem in its current condition but don't say that scourge isn't either. The radius and duration of their shade to be sure to corrupt boons is just insane. You numbers are off, no zerg plays with 10 scourge nor 10 weaver. It's more like 15-20 and 5. And no one plays 5 chronos + 5 SB anymore.

 

EDIT: Support got nerfed, damage need to follow.

[style.6173]

The main issue with WvW is T3 structures. It is just not fun to attack those. PvSiege needs to be adjusted. I'd personally like to see a week where towers do not upgrade at all. Make people actually fight.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Ni In.6578" said:

> > @"Caysadia.7405" said:

> > > @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> > > Scourges are easily, and I mean **Easily** dealt with by both rangers and revs, to the point scourges are all but nullified in groups.

> >

> > I dont know about this one buddy

>

> Can confirm. Scourages are like popcorn in the microwave with a CoR and a leap.

They grow to enormous size so you can cover then in butter and eat them?

 

Wait, wait I get it... the butter is the barrier haha.

 

[Vlad Filen.8049]

Scoring system should really change , they should gives more point in prim time and less in night camp.

also ppt during night camp should be harder by adding more Ai to protect tours and keeps especially with BB and Frenchy ( Eu) who mostly night camp and ruin the skirmish . just look at the actual Eu T2 , when Kodach rage quieted because of Jad night camp .

 

and for build , we need more melee meta build , Scourges are kill fun , especially that my server is full of melee players

[Swamurabi.7890]

When did the balance team have any kind of discussion about skills, traits, weapons, armor, trinkets in the WvW forums. Anybody ever have a discussion with a balance team dev on these forums?

 

/thread

[Acyk.9671]

> @"Vlad Filen.8049" said:

> Scoring system should really change , they should gives more point in prim time and less in night camp.

> also ppt during night camp should be harder by adding more Ai to protect tours and keeps especially with BB and Frenchy ( Eu) who mostly night camp and ruin the skirmish . just look at the actual Eu T2 , when Kodach rage quieted because of Jad night camp .

>

> and for build , we need more melee meta build , Scourges are kill fun , especially that my server is full of melee players

 

I agree with you, skirmishes points should be lower at night while 2 skirmishes during prime time should give double.

Don't turn it into a MU thread. It has to do with culture.

Germans: play a lot during morning, school stops earlier and have diner quite early (around 19:00 like british) and stop playing around 22:00.

French have a better coverage overall but don't really play during morning, school finish later, eat around 20:00 and raids stop around 23:00; They don't really have night crews anymore and past 01:00 it's mostly roamers and small ppt guilds.

Spanish mostly eat late, start playing around 22:00 and since there is almost no one else to fight at this hour have turned into a full PPT server

[Psycoprophet.8107]

In my server wvw is essentially scourge wars with people picking scraps off on the side. Blobs of all sizes usually consist mostly of scourges and fb. They literally walk forward covering massive areas with Condi aoe’s so anyone getting close here’s cc’d and Condi to death in seconds. Which ever blob can cover the larger area/has more scourges win. So I’d say thier presence and impact on zergs needs toned down. Donno how it is on other servers.

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"Acyk.9671" said:

> > @"Zero.3871" said:

> > > @"Caysadia.7405" said:

> >

> > > **TLDR: Scourge and Firebrand are way too dominant and stifle any competition in their roles, Rev is alright but may need a look at its cds if scourge and fb get nerfed, Soulbeast mirage and deadeye are extremely unfun to fight against and have too much reward for how little risk they have, ...**

> >

> > dont know on which Server you are playing. but firebrand and scourge are not the Problem imo. you say boon hate of scourge is too great? i just could laugh when i red that. in fact no number of scourges is able to deny the boonspam of revs and FBs,..... you have **rev glint every 3 seconds 3-4 boons on 5 persons**.

> >

> > you have **warrior stances every seconds** boons.

> >

> > you have **Fb tomes and Symbols spamming every seconds tonnes of boons.** the only way to kill a Frontline at These days is the combination of WoD and FULL BOMB of scourge boonhate because the WoD is denying reapply of boons. otherwise no Chance for scourges.

> >

> > in zergfights scourges are heavily outranged by revs and eles and never can pirate ship like you say cause they would get insta oneshotted when they just TRY to come in range for spiking.

> >

> > on the other side FB and their aegis spam is the only Thing that counter current rev hammer Trains. without FB aegis rev would one shoot everything in zergfights.

> > herald is good balanced xD. i am main necro but i mostly Play power rev with hammer in zergs because this class is maximum busted. a class that is able to hit a full Minstrel FB with 10k dmg - sry but calling that balanced is just a bit delusional^^.

> >

> > tbh this days its harder to find necros for our zergs since most People prefer to Play rev because rev does more dmg, more boons, has more Sustain and mobility. only Thing scourge is better is boonhate. **playing necro in zergs feels like sitting in a FB jail**. go out and you got punished. and even devouring Darkness is just a joke when facing the massive boonspam current meta delivers.

> >

> > and the only classes that are not heavily presented in current zerg meta are the medium armor classes (thief, ranger, engi). These classe get mostly just used by guilds (DD staff for backline pressure), engi smoke field blast for invis,....

> >

> > all other classes have good representation. mostly 20% scourge (boonhate), 20% FB (Overall support), 20% herald (dmg) , 20% ele (dmg), 10 % Warriors(for push pressure and WoD), 10% mesmers (utility like Portal, vail, gravi).

> >

> > in zergmeta anet just should Focusing on bringing medium armor classes in the meta by improving their utilities they already have (like i wrote: Staff DD or engi with smokefields). for the rest, the zergmeta is fine. best we have since a Long time.

> >

> > **in roaming** the Problem with called classes (soulbeast, Mirage, i would add holo and core warri) is like you correctly say. just too much of everything in just 1 build. while DE is tamed i think. counterplay exist, thats fine.

> >

> > anet just Need to remove one of the Points (high mobility, high sustain, high dmg) from These builds to bring them in line with other classes.

> >

> > i mean necros can do some dmg, but are immobile af. (low mobility - low sustain - high dmg)

> > eles can tank a bunch of People as weaver but lacking dmg than ( high Sustain - okayish mobility - low dmg)

> >

> > thats the way classes should be designed. strenghtess AND weaknesses. not just strenghts.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> OP fails to understand that Rev is a problem in its current condition but don't say that scourge isn't either. The radius and duration of their shade to be sure to corrupt boons is just insane. You numbers are off, no zerg plays with 10 scourge nor 10 weaver. It's more like 15-20 and 5. And no one plays 5 chronos + 5 SB anymore.

>

> EDIT: Support got nerfed, damage need to follow.

 

Scourge has seen nerf after nerf. Big shade cd was tripled, F-skill cd was increased by 50-200%, nerf of Dhuumfire, to name a few major ones. The only buff was devouring darkness, which requires curses as a traitline. Nerf it more?

[Safandula.8723]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > @"Acyk.9671" said:

> > > @"Zero.3871" said:

> > > > @"Caysadia.7405" said:

> > >

> > > > **TLDR: Scourge and Firebrand are way too dominant and stifle any competition in their roles, Rev is alright but may need a look at its cds if scourge and fb get nerfed, Soulbeast mirage and deadeye are extremely unfun to fight against and have too much reward for how little risk they have, ...**

> > >

> > > dont know on which Server you are playing. but firebrand and scourge are not the Problem imo. you say boon hate of scourge is too great? i just could laugh when i red that. in fact no number of scourges is able to deny the boonspam of revs and FBs,..... you have **rev glint every 3 seconds 3-4 boons on 5 persons**.

> > >

> > > you have **warrior stances every seconds** boons.

> > >

> > > you have **Fb tomes and Symbols spamming every seconds tonnes of boons.** the only way to kill a Frontline at These days is the combination of WoD and FULL BOMB of scourge boonhate because the WoD is denying reapply of boons. otherwise no Chance for scourges.

> > >

> > > in zergfights scourges are heavily outranged by revs and eles and never can pirate ship like you say cause they would get insta oneshotted when they just TRY to come in range for spiking.

> > >

> > > on the other side FB and their aegis spam is the only Thing that counter current rev hammer Trains. without FB aegis rev would one shoot everything in zergfights.

> > > herald is good balanced xD. i am main necro but i mostly Play power rev with hammer in zergs because this class is maximum busted. a class that is able to hit a full Minstrel FB with 10k dmg - sry but calling that balanced is just a bit delusional^^.

> > >

> > > tbh this days its harder to find necros for our zergs since most People prefer to Play rev because rev does more dmg, more boons, has more Sustain and mobility. only Thing scourge is better is boonhate. **playing necro in zergs feels like sitting in a FB jail**. go out and you got punished. and even devouring Darkness is just a joke when facing the massive boonspam current meta delivers.

> > >

> > > and the only classes that are not heavily presented in current zerg meta are the medium armor classes (thief, ranger, engi). These classe get mostly just used by guilds (DD staff for backline pressure), engi smoke field blast for invis,....

> > >

> > > all other classes have good representation. mostly 20% scourge (boonhate), 20% FB (Overall support), 20% herald (dmg) , 20% ele (dmg), 10 % Warriors(for push pressure and WoD), 10% mesmers (utility like Portal, vail, gravi).

> > >

> > > in zergmeta anet just should Focusing on bringing medium armor classes in the meta by improving their utilities they already have (like i wrote: Staff DD or engi with smokefields). for the rest, the zergmeta is fine. best we have since a Long time.

> > >

> > > **in roaming** the Problem with called classes (soulbeast, Mirage, i would add holo and core warri) is like you correctly say. just too much of everything in just 1 build. while DE is tamed i think. counterplay exist, thats fine.

> > >

> > > anet just Need to remove one of the Points (high mobility, high sustain, high dmg) from These builds to bring them in line with other classes.

> > >

> > > i mean necros can do some dmg, but are immobile af. (low mobility - low sustain - high dmg)

> > > eles can tank a bunch of People as weaver but lacking dmg than ( high Sustain - okayish mobility - low dmg)

> > >

> > > thats the way classes should be designed. strenghtess AND weaknesses. not just strenghts.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > OP fails to understand that Rev is a problem in its current condition but don't say that scourge isn't either. The radius and duration of their shade to be sure to corrupt boons is just insane. You numbers are off, no zerg plays with 10 scourge nor 10 weaver. It's more like 15-20 and 5. And no one plays 5 chronos + 5 SB anymore.

> >

> > EDIT: Support got nerfed, damage need to follow.

>

> Scourge has seen nerf after nerf. Big shade cd was tripled, F-skill cd was increased by 50-200%, nerf of Dhuumfire, to name a few major ones. The only buff was devouring darkness, which requires curses as a traitline. Nerf it more?

 

It had multiple nerfs and its still meta. Imo the biggest problem is as mentioned: shades are to big, while they still pulsate all these condis around scourge, making to much of area denial. For me, the dmg could be even higher but at the cost of aoe size.

Also I think all stability in this game should have much lower duration. Right now u just spam stab, instead of using it when the bombs are happening. Same in pvp. If enemy has fb in team, u can't cc anything. Stability should require more thinking instead of just spamming when ur getting into combat

[Psycoprophet.8107]

It’s the design of scourge and the people’s nature to abuse it to a ridiculous level. U get 10 scourges that just walk and spam and rewarded for such mindless skill spamming the majority of kills,it’s dumb. If people were different and didn’t care about just results and how it kills the fun for everyone in the battles. Maybe if there was a limit on scourges in groups but that obviously isn’t going to happen. I get that their supposed to be good in groups but it gets ridiculous when there’s a group of them and the whole floors a kill zone for soo many meters around the battle zone. It’s just too much

[steki.1478]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> It’s the design of scourge and the people’s nature to abuse it to a ridiculous level. U get 10 scourges that just walk and spam and rewarded for such mindless skill spamming the majority of kills,it’s dumb. If people were different and didn’t care about just results and how it kills the fun for everyone in the battles. Maybe if there was a limit on scourges in groups but that obviously isn’t going to happen. I get that their supposed to be good in groups but it gets ridiculous when there’s a group of them and the whole floors a kill zone for soo many meters around the battle zone. It’s just too much

 

Everything in this game is a huge spam when it comes to huge zergs, regardless of game mode and class. Scourges are at least easy to counter with longer range spike.

[Israel.7056]

It doesn't really make sense to complain about "spam" when the general design of every class is to have relatively low cds on weapon sets and utilities at least compared to other mmos I've played. In aion, for example, many major cds were on 5 minute or 10 minute cooldowns which meant you got to use them once or twice in a fight. There are only a few skills like that in gw2.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

All classes are built around spamming skills? Really?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Yeah ur right scourges are fine in how their mechanics/aoe’s work in zergs lol donno what I was thinking

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> All classes are built around spamming skills? Really?

 

Yes, actually. Name some that aren't?

 

There are some skills with long cool downs, but overall, each class and build is geared towards pressing attack/damage dealing skills as fast as is possible, with the exception of FB which is geared towards dropping boons and heals as fast as is possible.