NCsoft 4Q 2018 earning

[Blanche Neige.7241]

I'm happy to see that on a yearly revenues basis, the game had a good 2018 year.

 

NCSoft and Arenanet are certainly not worried about the game's future at the moment.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Blanche Neige.7241" said:

> I'm happy to see that on a yearly revenues basis, the game had a good 2018 year.

>

> NCSoft and Arenanet are certainly not worried about the game's future at the moment.

 

We cant know that but w/e.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Neural.1824" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > You should be because it won't kill it, but it will compete for resources within a game company, or the industry at large. If you still want a variety of high quality PC-based MMO's being released to the market using the latest tech, mobile gaming is a serious threat to that.

>

> I hope it does. PC-games need a hard reset.

>

> When PC based MMORPG's become so unprofitable that the AAA industry effectively "dies" as it switches to chase mobile games, the vacuum will be filled by small companies that will operate independently of faceless investors.

>

>

 

Investorless small companies that happen to have tens of millions of dollars lying around?

[perilisk.1874]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> Investorless small companies that happen to have tens of millions of dollars lying around?

 

Certainly they wouldn't be AAA quality. But I guess you could probably make a P2P model work without central servers using blockchain or something along those lines. It seems like such a game (no longer being reliant on servers) could function on a B2P model like GW1.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"perilisk.1874" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > Investorless small companies that happen to have tens of millions of dollars lying around?

>

> Certainly they wouldn't be AAA quality. But I guess you could probably make a P2P model work without central servers using blockchain or something along those lines. It seems like such a game (no longer being reliant on servers) could function on a B2P model like GW1.

 

I see.

 

Lower quality and less for my money as a consumer. I would probably pass, but I am sure that others would be happy with it.

[Tiviana.2650]

> @"keenedge.9675" said:

> > @"Tiviana.2650" said:

> > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > Actually DX12 has been garbage so far. The games that run well on DirectX 12 are limited (is there any?) . . .. If there was a need to update, they should update to DirectX 11, wide support from the playerbase, and it WORKS, unlike DirectX 12 which only works in benchmarks and in theory.

> > The reason being is people dont optimize dx12, i made the same mistake at first and hated it. DX12 comes out of the box . .

>

> A windows 10 box, which I've avoided so far - just headaches.

>

> A better choice of common denominator needs to be picked or created. DX12 would require too many people to move to Windows 10.

>

 

DX11 should be standard with dx12 as an option. 9 is far far too obsolete multi core pcs are bogged down by it. Sure if you have a low end pc that isnt multi core or only dual core you can run gw2 prob better than us with 6 cores because our pcs are built to distribute among cores for better performance. Not bog down a single core and thread on the 6 or 8 core machine.

 

Another thing, i didnt know this was part of NCsoft when i started, im not a fan of that umbrella company at all.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Tiviana.2650" said:

> > @"keenedge.9675" said:

> > > @"Tiviana.2650" said:

> > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > Actually DX12 has been garbage so far. The games that run well on DirectX 12 are limited (is there any?) . . .. If there was a need to update, they should update to DirectX 11, wide support from the playerbase, and it WORKS, unlike DirectX 12 which only works in benchmarks and in theory.

> > > The reason being is people dont optimize dx12, i made the same mistake at first and hated it. DX12 comes out of the box . .

> >

> > A windows 10 box, which I've avoided so far - just headaches.

> >

> > A better choice of common denominator needs to be picked or created. DX12 would require too many people to move to Windows 10.

> >

>

> DX11 should be standard with dx12 as an option. 9 is far far too obsolete multi core pcs are bogged down by it. Sure if you have a low end pc that isnt multi core or only dual core you can run gw2 prob better than us with 6 cores because our pcs are built to distribute among cores for better performance. Not bog down a single core and thread on the 6 or 8 core machine.

>

> Another thing, i didnt know this was part of NCsoft when i started, im not a fan of that umbrella company at all.

 

I have a multi core PC which runs GW2 just fine. A PC doesn’t get “bogged down” because an application uses only one core.

 

I’d sooner believe it to be throttling due to a mobo that wasn’t meant for many cores before this.

[titje.2745]

> @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> I haven’t been spending anything lately. Maybe small stuff with gold conversion. But there hasn’t really been anything extremely enticing in the gemstone and the one thing I did want was rng loot box exalted shoulders.

 

me2 i also want the shoulder skin. it’s the only item i really want ingame right now. but i can’t get it. i never ever get a 5 slot from chest 21+ keys already. i gave up playing much. i do daily’s and then i quit.

it’s not motivating playing with this bad luck.

 

about the sales of the game. np if it’s low. if ppl keep playing it’s fine. but don’t think so. and content. i mostly play for loot but new maps is nothing to do for me. the map with shatterer 2.0 i only do sometimes the boss kill for infusion further i don’t know what to do there. if there is new map i ask for teleport to friend and take mastery’s and explore a bit and i leave.

 

they must increase drop rates of nice skins to keep ppl motivated. oke fine if infusions drop in price. don’t care but there are so many ppl who want confetti infusion and with 1 in 10k drop chance they never get it.

 

maybe add fishing. i miss it from wow. i quit wow because bad rng for 6 months. and i paid them for sub so i stopped it because i didn’t get any mount i wanted.

 

then i started guildwars 2 it’s a nice game but i hate black lion chests droprate. they can have my money if they sell the skins so then i am sure i get the skin. 5 euro a skin is fine. 50 euro gambled i don’t do. then i waste the price of a full game.

 

would be nice if we can solo dungeons or some soloable contend and as reward we get an wardrobe unlock. once a week or something. i liked solo old content in wow for skins. but the rewards in dungeons are bad. i mostly only do them for runes or legendary gift.

 

i also want an option to save builds with 1 click. and dyes. and add bl chest keys to more chests. wvw chests or something with lower chance. map completion takes so much time and 10% for a key and then the bl chest 0% for 5th slot.

 

[OGDeadHead.8326]

Do we have any idea the % of the active players that actually puts any money into the game at all (not counting the actual buying of the game itself)?

[Yargesh.4965]

> @"OGDeadHead.8326" said:

> Do we have any idea the % of the active players that actually puts any money into the game at all (not counting the actual buying of the game itself)?

 

They never have and probably never will release this information. Generally not a huge percentage pays real money in games where there's an option not to. You can see this with the gems to gold ratio.

[Vancho.8750]

This quarter correlates to the release of World of Warcraft BFA which many people bought and played (

[BlueJin.4127]

For Anet, it doesn’t matter what percentage of players spend their money. Everybody who converts gold to gem are giving Anet free effective money because of tax Anet collects from the trade. In other words, for Anet, everybody is spending money.

[fixit.7189]

once i did the story and maybe a meta or two, i never go back to pof LW maps. well except istan, which they nerfed. so it seems the design goal here is to make people not want to replay stuff at all. and that bugs me. i haven't played since the istan nerf: i am not going back to sw so i'll just stop playing instead. yep, making content to not be played again is such a great idea: can't let those players feel rewarded, can we.

[Vayne.8563]

> @"Vancho.8750" said:

> This quarter correlates to the release of World of Warcraft BFA which many people bought and played (

 

> @"Vancho.8750" said:

> This quarter correlates to the release of World of Warcraft BFA which many people bought and played (

 

Except I think it happened a lot faster for BFA than it did for PoF. Guild Wars 2 has been remarkably stable for a pretty long time.

[SkyShroud.2865]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Tiviana.2650" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > @"Tiviana.2650" said:

> > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > > @"Tiviana.2650" said:

> > > > > > The engine is old and it shows even on new rigs. If they did a new expansion they would need a new engine because this one isnt optimized and performs badly. I mean how old is dx9 now? 2002? Even wow that behemoth of a game 14 years old has been updated to dx12, framerates are smoother , the pc runs easier and it looks better with a higher dx.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Another thing is graphic clutter, it has been said time and again there is too much visual noise in combat.

> > > > >

> > > > > They would not need a new engine if doing a new expansion. A higher DX will not provide the improvement that you’re expecting.

> > > >

> > > > I think you underestimate the difference going from dx9 to dx12 can make on a pc.

> > >

> > > I think you misunderstand what DX actually does.

> >

> > Seriously? you know they have people that benchmark these things, and all the testing has shown a serious performance improvement in dx12 over 9. 9 is a dinosaur that chokes the cpu, 12 puts the onus on the graphic card where it should be. 12 plays better with your pc, unless you own a potato.

>

> Not all games are designed the same.

>

> Also:

 

Dx 9 to 11 are single thread rendering

Dx 12 supports multithread rendering

Seeing that the CPU bottleneck is mostly the result of high drawcall due to multiple character models and particle effects, multithread rendering surely will provide significant performance boost.

Of course, dx9 to 11 based game can still be scaled but any scaling is still limited to single thread rendering therefore what they really do in this case is to remove non rendering logic from the rendering thread or move rendering logic to the appropriate thread (whatever, you should get what I mean). That is basically what that dev is saying.

However, if you can do multi thread rendering, is there truly a need to optimize to that degree?

[Einlanzer.1627]

> @"Xstein.2187" said:

> Oddly enough, I have been starting to really, really wish this was a sub game, just not for the reason most think.

>

> When most of your in between expansion money is spent on gem store items, what is the company going to need to focus on?

> Making flashier, more impressive gem store items that people are willing to buy. This is exactly what we have been seeing over the years, flashier outfits or mounts in the gem store.

> Not only that, but Anet specifically designed PoF with the intent on make gem store money on mounts.

> The freaking expansions are now partially based on making gem store money as well.

> Anet obviously know about these results and know they make a lot of money on expansions, just not as much between expansions. Therefore, right now they are probably focused on trying to figure out on how to make more money between expansions -> the gem store.

>

> However, now consider this. What would their attention be focused on if gw2 was a sub game?

> It would be focused on keeping a high subscription base from year to year.

> Instead of the focus being spent on making flashy gem store items or expansions with the gem store in mind, you would start to see a focus on keeping a high player population since a higher player population would be directly correlated with making more money.

> All of a sudden, you may see some aspects of the game, like balance and pvp, while they don't make a lot of money through the gem store, see more attention because they may see player and profit changes based on balance. Of course, all of this is speculation. However, it makes perfect sense.

>

> I don't want to get too political, but take health care as an example. If health care is publicized than the main goal of the health care company is to make money relative to actual health care. If you change their goals to actually taking care of people instead of just making money, then you start to see better results from the health care. Same thing with gw2. You need to change it so the focus is on making a fun game to play, not on making flashy gem store items. There may be a way of doing this besides subscriptions. However, the main thing is that the focus needs to change so money generation isn't focused so much on one specific aspect of the game. Spread it out a little bit, get some more variety. I'm also not saying that Anet isn't focused on player population. However, if you are going to choose between making a lot of money on a game that is eh, ok vs making less money on one that people enjoy more, which as a company are you going to choose?

 

The ironic thing is that gem store sales are more likely to come from focusing on making a good game that people want to spend money on instead of trying to force people to use the gem store by essentially overusing it for everything.

 

It's very dumb to never release mount skins as rewards in game and to release them ad nasueam while overcharging for them in the gem store. Things like that drive a lot of players (esepcially collections-oriented ones, who normally are the most consistent players) away from the game totally because they start to see the company as having a "cash grab" modus operandi.

[Raizel.8175]

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > > @"Opopanax.1803" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > Y'all are missing the real concern from that graph ... the sum of all of the PC game revenue barely adds up to the mobile game revenues. If a game dev company can make an order of magnitude more bux by switching platform ... they would be crazy to not do so. Admittedly, I don't know how many games are in that 'mobile' part of the graph, but that's the biggest concern to me.

> > > >

> > > > This is what I took away too. Anet needs to make a mobile game if they want to survive.

> > > >

> > > ~snip~

> > >

> > > Not true, as long as income exceeds expenses then the company survives...

> > >

> >

> > Its human nature to want more and go for more, the mobile market could make them crazy amount of money far beyond their expenses.

> >

> > I mean look at the reccent layoffs in acti-blizzard. The ceo is boasting record sales but the company laidoff 800 ppl because they didnt "meet their potential" of profit.

> >

> > Apparently getting to keep your job in the game's industry goes beyond just exceeding expenses.

>

> You're comparing apples to oranges though, Activision-Blizzard is an American company, NCSoft is Korean, though they're both in the same industry, the way businesses are looked at in the 2 countries are different. U.S is focused on short term gain, how much money did you make for me in the last 3 months...from what I've learned about most(not all) Asian countries it's about the long-term viability and strength of the company. ArenaNet being a 100% wholly owned subsidiary of NCSoft is in an unusual position as they're a U.S gaming company owned by an Asian gaming company...we actually have no idea on the relationship between A.net and NC with the exception that they were given more freedom with GW2.

 

That's just wrong. I've played and am playing several NCSoft games such as Aion ot Blade &Soul and they're all very much designed for short term profit with all the P2W they offer. While western publishers also aren't good, P2W and short term profits are pretty much the standard in Asia - especially since mobile games are crazy shit there at the moment. We really should be happy that ArenaNet is free in it's decisions as to how to design the game, else GW2 would already be a P2W-cashfest.

[Blanche Neige.7241]

> @"BlueJin.4127" said:

> For Anet, it doesn’t matter what percentage of players spend their money. Everybody who converts gold to gem are giving Anet free effective money because of tax Anet collects from the trade. In other words, for Anet, everybody is spending money.

 

They don't care if you buy gems with real money or with ingame gold.

 

The gems you are buying with gold were bought by someone with real money anyway.

 

 

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> Stuff like the mount adoption licences and themed mount packs are going to inherently have diminishing returns among most players. I mean really, how many dozens of mount skins can one person need even if they want all their mounts to perfectly match their character's fashion?

 

I think that's true of all cosmetics. I remember when playing SWTOR there were just more and more armor skins and at some point I had a set of ones I really liked and new ones just really weren't better and I had enough of them. This being an elder game now and having had lots of stuff released via the gem store in the meantime, I really don't have anything cosmetic I really would want anymore. It's hard to extrapolate why GW2 sales are down by 25% this past quarter but yeah, you'd think that the holidays are a time that sales would be up. If that's true then the next quarter might be even lower just because there isn't the same type of holiday in this quarter.

 

One of the things that will become increasingly difficult is to attract new players because it's an old game by now. In game terms 6-7 years is pretty ancient and new players aren't necessarily looking for an older game to get into. So this might be something they won't be able to really turn around anymore.

 

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Y'all are missing the real concern from that graph ... the sum of all of the PC game revenue barely adds up to the mobile game revenues. If a game dev company can make an order of magnitude more bux by switching platform ... they would be crazy to not do so. Admittedly, I don't know how many games are in that 'mobile' part of the graph, but that's the biggest concern to me.

 

I get where you're coming from but at the same time I think that trend will not continue for that much longer. The issue with mobile games is that it's a gold mine but mobile games are not for everyone so to ignore a market that still makes a lot of money would be a mistake by itself. Secondly, because many more companies are going for the mobile gold now, that means more competition and will increase the supply more than the demand. Look at Blizzard and their mobile Diablo game announcement that backfired. Companies will be fighting for players a lot more and will have to share their revenue with each other because well, the market isn't going to get bigger just because you offer more games. So once the mobile market is saturated (probably oversaturated before the likes of EA are done with it), they'll be looking elsewhere again.

 

Lastly, and correct me if I'm wrong but NcSoft's mobile games are based off their PC games like Lineage and B&S. Also most of their market is in Asia, not over here. So there are a lot of factors that can make a difference. In the end, it makes no sense to make a GW2 mobile game if people here don't care for it. All in all switching platforms seems like a bad business decision. Expanding yes, switching not so much. If the next GW game ends up being a mobile game, I wouldn't even touch it.