Miles Smiles.8951 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 > @"dominik.9721" said: > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > @"pah.4931" said: > > > > > > Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it... > > > > > > > > > > They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that. > > > > > > > > > > I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine. > > > > > > > > They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight. > > > > > > > > The only thing they can do to get away is kite. > > > > > > I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage: > > > > > > Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference. > > > > > > Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that. > > > > Plenty of classes have leaps and or ranged attacks to deal with a Revenant that is trying to get away, using phase traversal to another target just disengages you from one fight and engages you into another accomplishing absolute no safety. > > > > I've never managed to get away from a class yet by just using skills, I always have to do kiting to disengage from people. > > If you port away from far point to a mid target, you don't necessarily engage into another fight. Also Rev has huge kiting potential due to many evades, superspeed and counter cc. and you can also port to things like gates on Legacy map or beasts on Forest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snellibee.2761 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 > @"dominik.9721" said: > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > @"pah.4931" said: > > > > > > > > Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing they can do to get away is kite. > > > > > > > > > > I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage: > > > > > > > > > > Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference. > > > > > > > > > > Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that. > > > > > > > > Plenty of classes have leaps and or ranged attacks to deal with a Revenant that is trying to get away, using phase traversal to another target just disengages you from one fight and engages you into another accomplishing absolute no safety. > > > > > > > > I've never managed to get away from a class yet by just using skills, I always have to do kiting to disengage from people. > > > > > > If you port away from far point to a mid target, you don't necessarily engage into another fight. Also Rev has huge kiting potential due to many evades, superspeed and counter cc. > > > > That is true but it's an unreliable disengage because you can't always do it unlike a teleport where you blink away to wherever you want, you can't choose where your enemy is. > > Yes Rev has kiting potential but not 'huge'. Warriors and rangers have far better kiting potential because of their leaps allowing them to get to places other classes without leaps (Rev for example) can't get to. > > > > Rev has nothing special to disengage so I don't know why you think they do. Literally every other class besides guardian is better at disengaging from fights. > > > > Also regarding your "many evades and counter CC" remark, I guess the "many evades" come from riposting shadows, wich use 30 energy. Then you talk about the counter CC, the only CC a Revenant can use while trying to get away with Riposting Shadows is Surge of the mist, wich you need to use to your enemy so it's useless if you're trying to get away, or you need to use Jade Winds, wich uses 50 energy so if you're using Riposting Shadows you're unable to use Jade Winds. > > > > So what 'counter cc' are you talking about here? > > - Staff 5 evades > - Staff 3 evades/blocks > - Sword 3 evades and bridges cd-times > - Riposting shadows evades, provides endurance again and also gains distance when used backwards > - Staff 5 is an aoe cc and defintly not useless. Juking/Kiting/Disengaging is not the same as running straight from far to mid. Sudden direction changes ect. are essential > - Glint elite also is a cc and if you swap to shiro you can use riposing shadows, followed by another dodge > - And superspeed can sometimes be better than any 900 range leap > > So what's your point? > > If you manage your CDs carefully you can evade and negate attacks for like 10-15 seconds in a row. > There is a reason why revenant is literally the best class to bait steal from thief. > > And just because self sustaining soulbeast is even better at juking around doesn't mean Rev isn't good at it. > > Staff 5 is slow, doesn't help disengaging Staff 3 blocks but doesn't help disengaging sword 3 makes you engage instead of disengage Riposting shadows with impossible odds is your only way of disengaging but other classes have much better skills than this I think you don't know what disengaging means, you're talking about kiting My posts are about how Revenant has poor disengaging capabilities, all the skills you named don't help you disengage a target that is determined to kill you You can easily kill any Revenant that overextended or is active in a fight, the only way Revenant are able to survive is by killing the enemy before they kill him, they don't have the right abilities to make a proper escape from being pressured. 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Snellibee.2761 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 > @"dominik.9721" said: > > @"DomHemingway.8436" said: > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > @"Shala.8352" said: > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > @"pah.4931" said: > > > > > > > > Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing they can do to get away is kite. > > > > > > > > > > I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage: > > > > > > > > > > Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference. > > > > > > > > > > Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that. > > > > > > > > lol, your skill chain make no sense XD, that revenant never engaged in the first place! How he has the energy for Risposting Shadow- Surge of the mist - again risposting shadow lol, its 80 energy total!!! Are you sure this revenant isnt disengaging whitout even starting a fight? XD XD XD You guys never played revenant, if you did you know that what you are writing is simply science fiction! Revenant is the worst class in disengaging, sure its very good in +1, but disengaging.... maybe only second to necro! > > > > > > I mean the skill chain still doesn't make much sense, but you do realize rev gets his energy back when swapping to shiro? XD XD XD > > > > > > If I have to leave midfight on forest for example, I can easily dodge, staff 3, dodge, staff 5, (if glintheal not rdy) swapp to shiro, use riposting shadows, dodge again and 1 sec later I can target chieftain/svanir or an opponent and port away through the wall. > > > > > > It's not wvw where you get chased openfield by a zerg or sth. > > > > You understand that if swapping in Shiro just like that, you can lose break stun. > > > > > > Ushually, you want to cc a rev when he's in glint and not in shiro for a reason. > And actually this is known since 2015 HoT realese. > > You're actually dumb you want to CC a rev in shiro not in glint smh you really don't have a clue about Revenant and here you are making it look like you're a pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shala.8352 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 usualy i CC another rev when he is in Shiro, the reason is simple, if i do when he is in glint he has a stunbreak that cost low energy, and can expect a burst after the stun and activate heal, i prefer to CC chain him when he is in shiro, is stun break cost 30 energy, and even if he stunbreak he wont be able to be offensive, so i'll chase him down with autoattacks XD, since he can't disengage. Every warrior i meet go in rampage when i am in Shiro, not in glint. If they do that when i am in Glint i can survive the rampage. But aniway, instead of seeing Herald has OP, you should listen to Herald players if you don't have any clue what Revenant weak spots are, since i think everyone who think Herald is in this OP list is not thinking in the right prospective of energy managment. When you face Herald, you have to manage his energy too, the more he is forced in defensive the more you will win easily. If you let him guide the dance, he is in advantage because he can manage energy in the right way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugchriss.2046 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 > @"Shala.8352" said: > Every warrior i meet go in rampage when i am in Shiro, not in glint. If they do that when i am in Glint i can survive the rampage. I would say it's the opposite at least for me. It s way easier to survive rampage in shiro than in glint. Staff #3 (+extra blind), Staff#5, risposting shadow (+ endurance gain), and a little extra kitting >>> 15 secs( I keep sword #3 + enchanted dagged for a counter pressure ).Where as in glint you ll sacrifice infuse light and if the warrior is good(even mediocre) , he ll just stand there waiting for your Infuse light to finish then hit you again. But that s basically kitting, not disengaging. And btw with bull charge + GS#5 +GS # 3 war has a better disengage than rev. Ppl think rev disengage is good just because of the Z-axis tps, which are great but except war any class can still hit rev while he just z-axis tp'ed. Whether by their own tp (guard, rev, thief mes, ele, even some necs builds,) whether by their ranged attacks (engi, ranger, nec, ele) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 > @"Eugchriss.2046" said: > (...) >>> 15 secs. (...) Just a side note: Rampage in PVP is only 10s (still dumb imo). Apart from that, totally agreed, of course it's easier to survive in shiro - but when you start in glint, he pops it and you can stunbreak with legend swap, maybe that'd be even better. But yeah, at least have shiro available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugchriss.2046 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > @"Eugchriss.2046" said: > > (...) >>> 15 secs. (...) > > Just a side note: Rampage in PVP is only 10s (still dumb imo). > > Apart from that, totally agreed, of course it's easier to survive in shiro - but when you start in glint, he pops it and you can stunbreak with legend swap, maybe that'd be even better. But yeah, at least have shiro available. yeah especially with charge mist xD. Thennthey come on the forum QQ that RS is op x) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shala.8352 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 > @"Eugchriss.2046" said: > > @"Shala.8352" said: > > Every warrior i meet go in rampage when i am in Shiro, not in glint. If they do that when i am in Glint i can survive the rampage. > > I would say it's the opposite at least for me. It s way easier to survive rampage in shiro than in glint. Staff #3 (+extra blind), Staff#5, risposting shadow (+ endurance gain), and a little extra kitting >>> 15 secs( I keep sword #3 + enchanted dagged for a counter pressure ).Where as in glint you ll sacrifice infuse light and if the warrior is good(even mediocre) , he ll just stand there waiting for your Infuse light to finish then hit you again. But that s basically kitting, not disengaging. > And btw with bull charge + GS#5 +GS # 3 war has a better disengage than rev. Ppl think rev disengage is good just because of the Z-axis tps, which are great but except war any class can still hit rev while he just z-axis tp'ed. Whether by their own tp (guard, rev, thief mes, ele, even some necs builds,) whether by their ranged attacks (engi, ranger, nec, ele) nah, if you CC me in glint i just use the break stun wich is very low energy, then use my heal then you wasted your rampage. off course after healing finish, i swap to shiro to get my 50 energy back and kite a bit. Aniway best time to CC a rev is after he just swapped a legend, doesnt matter if into shiro or glint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugchriss.2046 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 > @"Shala.8352" said: > > @"Eugchriss.2046" said: > > > @"Shala.8352" said: > > > Every warrior i meet go in rampage when i am in Shiro, not in glint. If they do that when i am in Glint i can survive the rampage. > > > > I would say it's the opposite at least for me. It s way easier to survive rampage in shiro than in glint. Staff #3 (+extra blind), Staff#5, risposting shadow (+ endurance gain), and a little extra kitting >>> 15 secs( I keep sword #3 + enchanted dagged for a counter pressure ).Where as in glint you ll sacrifice infuse light and if the warrior is good(even mediocre) , he ll just stand there waiting for your Infuse light to finish then hit you again. But that s basically kitting, not disengaging. > > And btw with bull charge + GS#5 +GS # 3 war has a better disengage than rev. Ppl think rev disengage is good just because of the Z-axis tps, which are great but except war any class can still hit rev while he just z-axis tp'ed. Whether by their own tp (guard, rev, thief mes, ele, even some necs builds,) whether by their ranged attacks (engi, ranger, nec, ele) > > nah, if you CC me in glint i just use the break stun wich is very low energy, then use my heal then you wasted your rampage. That's what I said, you re sacrificing infuse light for (almost) nothing. That's the low effort choice IMO. Instead of kiting for 10 secs, you re now kiting for 30 secs. He might have wasted his rampage, but he basically just resetted the fight. Get ready for a Bull charge, shield #4, 100 blades, GS #3 combo.... And that's just in a 1v1 scenario.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incisorr.9502 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 no wonder this game is imbalanced when the community is so small and whenever the more known players / streamers don't like something that doesn't fit their narrative they can just quite literally personally address /talk to developers who happen to watch their stream and spin a tale in such a way that the average viewer can relate to it so that the game gets the patch notes that certain people desire, not that the game needs It's been 7 years since gw2 launched and you still have no line of sight teleports (Steal, phase traversal,judge's intervention) which are by far the most broken skills in the game. There's no counterplay to these skills, they are active, play-making skills, which means that whenever you use them there's a chance for something big to happen. Who cares bout mesmer F2 confusion ? it can be cleansed ,it can be dodged, it can be resistance'd , it can be healed. it doesn't do anything by itself and it's mostly telegraphed and obvious. Meanwhile steal results in a kill with a much higher % of usage on high elo. both are relatively the same cooldown , steal does less damage by itself if there was a statistic on how many times a guy died on 1.7k+ elo cus of steal it would be much higher than cry of confusion, which doesnt even do dmg by itself unless you use skills but to keep going on how this topic is misguided, even soulbeast itself isn't that broken compared to herald/thief/-guard (and guard doesnt work in every game so have that in mind) soulbeast is strong and overstatted but it doesn't have something that makes you drop dead, it doesn't have forceful abilities that end you - unless you over commit. There will always be " the strongest duelist " and before soulbeast it was mirage and people were still whining about mirage, the whining about the strongest duelist will never stop - it's the role thats' the problem and not the class in this example, if you spec for 1v1 you're going to win 1v1 that's how it works? Every role has a best-of i dont see anyone crying about core condition engineer not being as good as scourge and i want it to be as good as scourge but it isnt cus its condi application isnt good enough for today's meta so yeah to summarize it, the majority of people dont know how to judge properly and fairly. The things people whine about have counters even if they are very strong but they arent what breaks the camels back. Skills with no (reasonable) counterplay that force kills are whats broken and those skills are the ones ive mentioned a million times by now. The problem is that the game is 5v5 objective based game and that you have people who judge classes by how they 1v1 against each other, which is beyond ridiculous to even think of and yet gw2 has never been a good game for that exact reason, it's a slightly above average game but it won't ever be a good game until you get rid of insta cast no line of sight teleports which are what pushes over kills in 5v5 which then snowballs the map and you have your best example with now the monthly tournament ending and a random thief was in the winning team, wonder why it wasnt a random mesmer? cus nobody wants a random mesmer cus it's role isnt as influential and gamebreaking/important as a thief is. Which is why there hasn't been a mAT without thieves/revenants but there are mats without mesmers. But yeah the lone voice of reason is easy to silence with a crowd of angry peasants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 > @"incisorr.9502" said: > no wonder this game is imbalanced when the community is so small and whenever the more known players / streamers don't like something that doesn't fit their narrative they can just quite literally personally address /talk to developers who happen to watch their stream and spin a tale in such a way that the average viewer can relate to it so that the game gets the patch notes that certain people desire, not that the game needs > > It's been 7 years since gw2 launched and you still have no line of sight teleports (Steal, phase traversal,judge's intervention) which are by far the most broken skills in the game. There's no counterplay to these skills, they are active, play-making skills, which means that whenever you use them there's a chance for something big to happen. > > Who cares bout mesmer F2 confusion ? it can be cleansed ,it can be dodged, it can be resistance'd , it can be healed. it doesn't do anything by itself and it's mostly telegraphed and obvious. Meanwhile steal results in a kill with a much higher % of usage on high elo. both are relatively the same cooldown , steal does less damage by itself > if there was a statistic on how many times a guy died on 1.7k+ elo cus of steal it would be much higher than cry of confusion, which doesnt even do dmg by itself unless you use skills > > but to keep going on how this topic is misguided, even soulbeast itself isn't that broken compared to herald/thief/-guard (and guard doesnt work in every game so have that in mind) > soulbeast is strong and overstatted but it doesn't have something that makes you drop dead, it doesn't have forceful abilities that end you - unless you over commit. There will always be " the strongest duelist " and before soulbeast it was mirage and people were still whining about mirage, the whining about the strongest duelist will never stop - it's the role thats' the problem and not the class in this example, if you spec for 1v1 you're going to win 1v1 that's how it works? Every role has a best-of > i dont see anyone crying about core condition engineer not being as good as scourge and i want it to be as good as scourge but it isnt cus its condi application isnt good enough for today's meta > > so yeah to summarize it, the majority of people dont know how to judge properly and fairly. The things people whine about have counters even if they are very strong but they arent what breaks the camels back. Skills with no (reasonable) counterplay that force kills are whats broken and those skills are the ones ive mentioned a million times by now. The problem is that the game is 5v5 objective based game and that you have people who judge classes by how they 1v1 against each other, which is beyond ridiculous to even think of and yet > > gw2 has never been a good game for that exact reason, it's a slightly above average game but it won't ever be a good game until you get rid of insta cast no line of sight teleports which are what pushes over kills in 5v5 which then snowballs the map > and you have your best example with now the monthly tournament ending and a random thief was in the winning team, wonder why it wasnt a random mesmer? cus nobody wants a random mesmer cus it's role isnt as influential and gamebreaking/important as a thief is. Which is why there hasn't been a mAT without thieves/revenants but there are mats without mesmers. But yeah the lone voice of reason is easy to silence with a crowd of angry peasants Thief and guards more broken than mesmer? Wow haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ketsu.4569 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 > @"dominik.9721" said: > If you manage your CDs carefully you can evade and negate attacks for like 10-15 seconds in a row. Every class can do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 > @"phokus.8934" said: > Kill Rev and Thief... > > This is why no one takes this sub forum serious. Rev is a bloat class that doesn't need to exist, and Thief is the only class that has a resource mechanic which can bypass the only thing by which every other class is balanced. Delete rev and deadeye, then just give everyone initiative. That'll never happen, but it's probably the only decent way to balance anything in gw2. Cooldown-only balance is pants on head asinine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phokus.8934 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > Kill Rev and Thief... > > > > This is why no one takes this sub forum serious. > > Rev is a bloat class that doesn't need to exist, and Thief is the only class that has a resource mechanic which can bypass the only thing by which every other class is balanced. Delete rev and deadeye, then just give everyone initiative. That'll never happen, but it's probably the only decent way to balance anything in gw2. Cooldown-only balance is pants on head asinine. You can’t be serious in calling Rev bloat... if you are then you really need to explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 > @"phokus.8934" said: > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > Kill Rev and Thief... > > > > > > This is why no one takes this sub forum serious. > > > > Rev is a bloat class that doesn't need to exist, and Thief is the only class that has a resource mechanic which can bypass the only thing by which every other class is balanced. Delete rev and deadeye, then just give everyone initiative. That'll never happen, but it's probably the only decent way to balance anything in gw2. Cooldown-only balance is pants on head asinine. > You can’t be serious in calling Rev bloat... if you are then you really need to explain. > GW2 launch metas in PvE and PvP respectively never utilized the full roster of classes (indeed, given 5 slots for 8 classes, no ranked match or dungeon run could do so). However, this wasn't necessarily due to a lack of party slots, or the "zerk meta" being some sort of problem for the game, or any particular level of supposed elitism. GW2's class bloat problem stems from its stagnant, perennial metagame: "DPS quickly or while being invincible;" and even as patches continued to roll out, the game never grew beyond this paradigm--a paradigm which, within the context of GW2's combat design, only needed a core of 3-4 classes to easily maintain. PvE meta was 3 classes: Elementalist, Warrior and Guardian; PvP meta was Thief/Mesmer, d/d Ele (because for the first year of GW2; nothing could reliably kill it) and a carousel of 2-3 "flavor of the month" builds. Half of the roster was entirely neglected for justifiable reasons: "flavor" is not gameplay. Things like Engineer, Necromancer and Ranger never consistently made it into any line-ups because they never consistently did the same thing that everyone else did to varying degrees: "DPS quickly or while being invincible." Moreover, all the way until HoT's release, the PvE meta remained comprised of 3 classes, and while the PvP meta swung back and forth among various class set-ups, it still only moved when certain changes pushed a particular class into the shallow, homogenized meta of low-effort DPS and gimmicks. Even now, we've seen things like Engineer go from zero to hero in PvP because of Holosmith, Druid making Ranger into a generic DPS that could also just full heal and stealth on a 15s CD (until Soulbeast took its spot), Mesmer going from a portalbot to a total menace and PvE meta, and Warrior going from a free kill in 2012-13 to being absolutely ubiquitous in every match. Every single one of these story lines basically revolves around giving classes a tremendous amount of damage buffs along with sprinkling in some tandem invincibility and health regeneration. They all exploit the same exact and incredibly narrow set of mechanics. Why, then, would you think that adding a ninth class to this sort of already bloated environment would be any sort of a good idea? Consider how Revenant was PvE meta for a while basically for no other reason except for its PASSIVE boon duration buff granted by Herald (it never did competitive DPS after all), and once that passive buff was nerfed, the class was effectively replaced by a RUNE SET. Can you really justify Revenant's existence? Even in PvP, it has always only been another Thief: entering combat with teleports and evading while attacking before retreating eventually if it doesn't manage to get a kill. It's biggest claim to PvP meta was only really when Staff 5 could 100-0 players (and now you notice how it was basically a free kill for ages until it got a random buff to off-hand sword; the pattern repeats). Revenant isn't a real class: it's a load of nothing that was mainly only used as a promotional advertisement for HoT. GW2 had 4 too many classes for its own good when it launched. It never needed a 9th class, and it really shows when one of the big explanations tied to Revenant's existence was "the game only had 2 heavy classes" as opposed to something like "well, we are going to invent a new combat/support niche for it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raknar.4735 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > > Kill Rev and Thief... > > > > > > > > This is why no one takes this sub forum serious. > > > > > > Rev is a bloat class that doesn't need to exist, and Thief is the only class that has a resource mechanic which can bypass the only thing by which every other class is balanced. Delete rev and deadeye, then just give everyone initiative. That'll never happen, but it's probably the only decent way to balance anything in gw2. Cooldown-only balance is pants on head asinine. > > You can’t be serious in calling Rev bloat... if you are then you really need to explain. > > > > GW2 launch metas in PvE and PvP respectively never utilized the full roster of classes (indeed, given 5 slots for .8 classes, no ranked match or dungeon run could do so). However, this wasn't necessarily due to a lack of party slots, or the "zerk meta" being some sort of problem for the game, or any particular level of supposed elitism. GW2's class bloat problem stems from its stagnant, perennial metagame: "DPS quickly or while being invincible;" and even as patches continued to roll out, the game never grew beyond this paradigm--a paradigm which, within the context of GW2's combat design, only needed a core of 3-4 classes to easily maintain. PvE meta was 3 classes: Elementalist, Warrior and Guardian; PvP meta was Thief/Mesmer, d/d Ele (because for the first year of GW2; nothing could reliably kill it) and a carousel of 2-3 "flavor of the month" builds. Half of the roster was entirely neglected for justifiable reasons: "flavor" is not gameplay. Things like Engineer, Necromancer and Ranger never consistently made it into any line-ups because they never consistently did the same thing that everyone else did to varying degrees: "DPS quickly or while being invincible." > > Moreover, all the way until HoT's release, the PvE meta remained comprised of 3 classes, and while the PvP meta swung back and forth among various class set-ups, it still only moved when certain changes pushed a particular class into the shallow, homogenized meta of low-effort DPS and gimmicks. Even now, we've seen things like Engineer go from zero to hero in PvP because of Holosmith, Druid making Ranger into a generic DPS that could also just full heal and stealth on a 15s CD (until Soulbeast took its spot), Mesmer going from a portalbot to a total menace and PvE meta, and Warrior going from a free kill in 2012-13 to being absolutely ubiquitous in every match. Every single one of these story lines basically revolves around giving classes a tremendous amount of damage buffs along with sprinkling in some tandem invincibility and health regeneration. They all exploit the same exact and incredibly narrow set of mechanics. > > Why, then, would you think that adding an eighth class to this sort of already bloated environment would be any sort of a good idea? Consider how Revenant was PvE meta for a while basically for no other reason except for its PASSIVE boon duration buff granted by Herald (it never did competitive DPS after all), and once that passive buff was nerfed, the class was effectively replaced by a RUNE SET. Can you really justify Revenant's existence? Even in PvP, it has always only been another Thief: entering combat with teleports and evading while attacking before retreating eventually if it doesn't manage to get a kill. It's biggest claim to PvP meta was only really when Staff 5 could 100-0 players (and now you notice how it was basically a free kill for ages until it got a random buff to off-hand sword; the pattern repeats). Revenant isn't a real class: it's a load of nothing that was mainly only used as a promotional advertisement for HoT. GW2 had 4 too many classes for its own good when it launched. It never needed a 9th class, and it really shows when one of the big explanations tied to Revenant's existence was "the game only had 2 heavy classes" as opposed to something like "well, we are going to invent a new combat/support niche for it." Guess we can remove every class then and create a new class that can "DPS quickly while being invincible". Since the classes being used "exploit the same exact and incredibly narrow set of mechanics", every class is just a bloat class because "flavor is not gameplay". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominik.9721 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > > @"pah.4931" said: > > > > > > > > > Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing they can do to get away is kite. > > > > > > > > > > > > I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage: > > > > > > > > > > > > Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that. > > > > > > > > > > Plenty of classes have leaps and or ranged attacks to deal with a Revenant that is trying to get away, using phase traversal to another target just disengages you from one fight and engages you into another accomplishing absolute no safety. > > > > > > > > > > I've never managed to get away from a class yet by just using skills, I always have to do kiting to disengage from people. > > > > > > > > If you port away from far point to a mid target, you don't necessarily engage into another fight. Also Rev has huge kiting potential due to many evades, superspeed and counter cc. > > > > > > That is true but it's an unreliable disengage because you can't always do it unlike a teleport where you blink away to wherever you want, you can't choose where your enemy is. > > > Yes Rev has kiting potential but not 'huge'. Warriors and rangers have far better kiting potential because of their leaps allowing them to get to places other classes without leaps (Rev for example) can't get to. > > > > > > Rev has nothing special to disengage so I don't know why you think they do. Literally every other class besides guardian is better at disengaging from fights. > > > > > > Also regarding your "many evades and counter CC" remark, I guess the "many evades" come from riposting shadows, wich use 30 energy. Then you talk about the counter CC, the only CC a Revenant can use while trying to get away with Riposting Shadows is Surge of the mist, wich you need to use to your enemy so it's useless if you're trying to get away, or you need to use Jade Winds, wich uses 50 energy so if you're using Riposting Shadows you're unable to use Jade Winds. > > > > > > So what 'counter cc' are you talking about here? > > > > - Staff 5 evades > > - Staff 3 evades/blocks > > - Sword 3 evades and bridges cd-times > > - Riposting shadows evades, provides endurance again and also gains distance when used backwards > > - Staff 5 is an aoe cc and defintly not useless. Juking/Kiting/Disengaging is not the same as running straight from far to mid. Sudden direction changes ect. are essential > > - Glint elite also is a cc and if you swap to shiro you can use riposing shadows, followed by another dodge > > - And superspeed can sometimes be better than any 900 range leap > > > > So what's your point? > > > > If you manage your CDs carefully you can evade and negate attacks for like 10-15 seconds in a row. > > There is a reason why revenant is literally the best class to bait steal from thief. > > > > And just because self sustaining soulbeast is even better at juking around doesn't mean Rev isn't good at it. > > > > > > Staff 5 is slow, doesn't help disengaging > Staff 3 blocks but doesn't help disengaging > sword 3 makes you engage instead of disengage > Riposting shadows with impossible odds is your only way of disengaging but other classes have much better skills than this > > I think you don't know what disengaging means, you're talking about kiting > My posts are about how Revenant has poor disengaging capabilities, all the skills you named don't help you disengage a target that is determined to kill you > > You can easily kill any Revenant that overextended or is active in a fight, the only way Revenant are able to survive is by killing the enemy before they kill him, they don't have the right abilities to make a proper escape from being pressured. You can type as much as you want. Kiting is part of disengaging. As I said, disengaging doesn't mean running from far to mid. Disengaging means to leave a lost fight and to survive. > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > @"DomHemingway.8436" said: > > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > > @"Shala.8352" said: > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > > @"pah.4931" said: > > > > > > > > > Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing they can do to get away is kite. > > > > > > > > > > > > I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage: > > > > > > > > > > > > Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that. > > > > > > > > > > lol, your skill chain make no sense XD, that revenant never engaged in the first place! How he has the energy for Risposting Shadow- Surge of the mist - again risposting shadow lol, its 80 energy total!!! Are you sure this revenant isnt disengaging whitout even starting a fight? XD XD XD You guys never played revenant, if you did you know that what you are writing is simply science fiction! Revenant is the worst class in disengaging, sure its very good in +1, but disengaging.... maybe only second to necro! > > > > > > > > I mean the skill chain still doesn't make much sense, but you do realize rev gets his energy back when swapping to shiro? XD XD XD > > > > > > > > If I have to leave midfight on forest for example, I can easily dodge, staff 3, dodge, staff 5, (if glintheal not rdy) swapp to shiro, use riposting shadows, dodge again and 1 sec later I can target chieftain/svanir or an opponent and port away through the wall. > > > > > > > > It's not wvw where you get chased openfield by a zerg or sth. > > > > > > You understand that if swapping in Shiro just like that, you can lose break stun. > > > > > > > > > > Ushually, you want to cc a rev when he's in glint and not in shiro for a reason. > > And actually this is known since 2015 HoT realese. > > > > > > You're actually dumb you want to CC a rev in shiro not in glint smh you really don't have a clue about Revenant and here you are making it look like you're a pro Back then in ESL you called in ts when a Rev swapped in glint to chain cc him because it was way more easy to set up combos than in shiro where he instantly would evade with reposting shadows, followed by more evades. And since I played in a professional environment - unlike you - in a team with Aurora, who was considered the best revenant together with Frae and Drazeh, I prolly do know more than you, ye. But ye, keep wasting your glint heal for one warrior stun and type "smh" in forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > > > Kill Rev and Thief... > > > > > > > > > > This is why no one takes this sub forum serious. > > > > > > > > Rev is a bloat class that doesn't need to exist, and Thief is the only class that has a resource mechanic which can bypass the only thing by which every other class is balanced. Delete rev and deadeye, then just give everyone initiative. That'll never happen, but it's probably the only decent way to balance anything in gw2. Cooldown-only balance is pants on head asinine. > > > You can’t be serious in calling Rev bloat... if you are then you really need to explain. > > > > > > > GW2 launch metas in PvE and PvP respectively never utilized the full roster of classes (indeed, given 5 slots for .8 classes, no ranked match or dungeon run could do so). However, this wasn't necessarily due to a lack of party slots, or the "zerk meta" being some sort of problem for the game, or any particular level of supposed elitism. GW2's class bloat problem stems from its stagnant, perennial metagame: "DPS quickly or while being invincible;" and even as patches continued to roll out, the game never grew beyond this paradigm--a paradigm which, within the context of GW2's combat design, only needed a core of 3-4 classes to easily maintain. PvE meta was 3 classes: Elementalist, Warrior and Guardian; PvP meta was Thief/Mesmer, d/d Ele (because for the first year of GW2; nothing could reliably kill it) and a carousel of 2-3 "flavor of the month" builds. Half of the roster was entirely neglected for justifiable reasons: "flavor" is not gameplay. Things like Engineer, Necromancer and Ranger never consistently made it into any line-ups because they never consistently did the same thing that everyone else did to varying degrees: "DPS quickly or while being invincible." > > > > Moreover, all the way until HoT's release, the PvE meta remained comprised of 3 classes, and while the PvP meta swung back and forth among various class set-ups, it still only moved when certain changes pushed a particular class into the shallow, homogenized meta of low-effort DPS and gimmicks. Even now, we've seen things like Engineer go from zero to hero in PvP because of Holosmith, Druid making Ranger into a generic DPS that could also just full heal and stealth on a 15s CD (until Soulbeast took its spot), Mesmer going from a portalbot to a total menace and PvE meta, and Warrior going from a free kill in 2012-13 to being absolutely ubiquitous in every match. Every single one of these story lines basically revolves around giving classes a tremendous amount of damage buffs along with sprinkling in some tandem invincibility and health regeneration. They all exploit the same exact and incredibly narrow set of mechanics. > > > > Why, then, would you think that adding an eighth class to this sort of already bloated environment would be any sort of a good idea? Consider how Revenant was PvE meta for a while basically for no other reason except for its PASSIVE boon duration buff granted by Herald (it never did competitive DPS after all), and once that passive buff was nerfed, the class was effectively replaced by a RUNE SET. Can you really justify Revenant's existence? Even in PvP, it has always only been another Thief: entering combat with teleports and evading while attacking before retreating eventually if it doesn't manage to get a kill. It's biggest claim to PvP meta was only really when Staff 5 could 100-0 players (and now you notice how it was basically a free kill for ages until it got a random buff to off-hand sword; the pattern repeats). Revenant isn't a real class: it's a load of nothing that was mainly only used as a promotional advertisement for HoT. GW2 had 4 too many classes for its own good when it launched. It never needed a 9th class, and it really shows when one of the big explanations tied to Revenant's existence was "the game only had 2 heavy classes" as opposed to something like "well, we are going to invent a new combat/support niche for it." > > Guess we can remove every class then and create a new class that can "DPS quickly while being invincible". > Since the classes being used "exploit the same exact and incredibly narrow set of mechanics", every class is just a bloat class because "flavor is not gameplay". Just say that without being super sarcastic, and you're mostly quite correct. I wouldn't say to compress it down to a single class (although, you could probably pull that off), but a core of 4 would be able to easily feature every sort of skill across all specs, weapons and traitlines which sees use right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snellibee.2761 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 > @"dominik.9721" said: > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"pah.4931" said: > > > > > > > > > > Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing they can do to get away is kite. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Plenty of classes have leaps and or ranged attacks to deal with a Revenant that is trying to get away, using phase traversal to another target just disengages you from one fight and engages you into another accomplishing absolute no safety. > > > > > > > > > > > > I've never managed to get away from a class yet by just using skills, I always have to do kiting to disengage from people. > > > > > > > > > > If you port away from far point to a mid target, you don't necessarily engage into another fight. Also Rev has huge kiting potential due to many evades, superspeed and counter cc. > > > > > > > > That is true but it's an unreliable disengage because you can't always do it unlike a teleport where you blink away to wherever you want, you can't choose where your enemy is. > > > > Yes Rev has kiting potential but not 'huge'. Warriors and rangers have far better kiting potential because of their leaps allowing them to get to places other classes without leaps (Rev for example) can't get to. > > > > > > > > Rev has nothing special to disengage so I don't know why you think they do. Literally every other class besides guardian is better at disengaging from fights. > > > > > > > > Also regarding your "many evades and counter CC" remark, I guess the "many evades" come from riposting shadows, wich use 30 energy. Then you talk about the counter CC, the only CC a Revenant can use while trying to get away with Riposting Shadows is Surge of the mist, wich you need to use to your enemy so it's useless if you're trying to get away, or you need to use Jade Winds, wich uses 50 energy so if you're using Riposting Shadows you're unable to use Jade Winds. > > > > > > > > So what 'counter cc' are you talking about here? > > > > > > - Staff 5 evades > > > - Staff 3 evades/blocks > > > - Sword 3 evades and bridges cd-times > > > - Riposting shadows evades, provides endurance again and also gains distance when used backwards > > > - Staff 5 is an aoe cc and defintly not useless. Juking/Kiting/Disengaging is not the same as running straight from far to mid. Sudden direction changes ect. are essential > > > - Glint elite also is a cc and if you swap to shiro you can use riposing shadows, followed by another dodge > > > - And superspeed can sometimes be better than any 900 range leap > > > > > > So what's your point? > > > > > > If you manage your CDs carefully you can evade and negate attacks for like 10-15 seconds in a row. > > > There is a reason why revenant is literally the best class to bait steal from thief. > > > > > > And just because self sustaining soulbeast is even better at juking around doesn't mean Rev isn't good at it. > > > > > > > > > > Staff 5 is slow, doesn't help disengaging > > Staff 3 blocks but doesn't help disengaging > > sword 3 makes you engage instead of disengage > > Riposting shadows with impossible odds is your only way of disengaging but other classes have much better skills than this > > > > I think you don't know what disengaging means, you're talking about kiting > > My posts are about how Revenant has poor disengaging capabilities, all the skills you named don't help you disengage a target that is determined to kill you > > > > You can easily kill any Revenant that overextended or is active in a fight, the only way Revenant are able to survive is by killing the enemy before they kill him, they don't have the right abilities to make a proper escape from being pressured. > > You can type as much as you want. > > Kiting is part of disengaging. > As I said, disengaging doesn't mean running from far to mid. > Disengaging means to leave a lost fight and to survive. > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > @"DomHemingway.8436" said: > > > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > > > @"Shala.8352" said: > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"pah.4931" said: > > > > > > > > > > Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing they can do to get away is kite. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that. > > > > > > > > > > > > lol, your skill chain make no sense XD, that revenant never engaged in the first place! How he has the energy for Risposting Shadow- Surge of the mist - again risposting shadow lol, its 80 energy total!!! Are you sure this revenant isnt disengaging whitout even starting a fight? XD XD XD You guys never played revenant, if you did you know that what you are writing is simply science fiction! Revenant is the worst class in disengaging, sure its very good in +1, but disengaging.... maybe only second to necro! > > > > > > > > > > I mean the skill chain still doesn't make much sense, but you do realize rev gets his energy back when swapping to shiro? XD XD XD > > > > > > > > > > If I have to leave midfight on forest for example, I can easily dodge, staff 3, dodge, staff 5, (if glintheal not rdy) swapp to shiro, use riposting shadows, dodge again and 1 sec later I can target chieftain/svanir or an opponent and port away through the wall. > > > > > > > > > > It's not wvw where you get chased openfield by a zerg or sth. > > > > > > > > You understand that if swapping in Shiro just like that, you can lose break stun. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ushually, you want to cc a rev when he's in glint and not in shiro for a reason. > > > And actually this is known since 2015 HoT realese. > > > > > > > > > > You're actually dumb you want to CC a rev in shiro not in glint smh you really don't have a clue about Revenant and here you are making it look like you're a pro > > Back then in ESL you called in ts when a Rev swapped in glint to chain cc him because it was way more easy to set up combos than in shiro where he instantly would evade with reposting shadows, followed by more evades. > And since I played in a professional environment - unlike you - in a team with Aurora, who was considered the best revenant together with Frae and Drazeh, I prolly do know more than you, ye. > > But ye, keep wasting your glint heal for one warrior stun and type "smh" in forums Yeah disengaging is more than just running from far to close, but most classes can do just that by using a skill or two. Whilst Revenant actually needs skill and kiting to disengage, wich was my point all this time but you seem to be unable to read properly. You've been in ESL? Funny, all the names you've mentioned are people I've seen videos of and already knew about them. But for some reason your name doesn't ring any bell. Probably a good reason for that. If you have this much knowledge, you'd know attacking a rev in shiro is more worth because the chances of him having 30 energy to use riposting shadows are less likely than a revenant in glint to have infused light or signet of darkness up. Funny when a guy talks all big but everything he says is just hollow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raknar.4735 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > > > > Kill Rev and Thief... > > > > > > > > > > > > This is why no one takes this sub forum serious. > > > > > > > > > > Rev is a bloat class that doesn't need to exist, and Thief is the only class that has a resource mechanic which can bypass the only thing by which every other class is balanced. Delete rev and deadeye, then just give everyone initiative. That'll never happen, but it's probably the only decent way to balance anything in gw2. Cooldown-only balance is pants on head asinine. > > > > You can’t be serious in calling Rev bloat... if you are then you really need to explain. > > > > > > > > > > GW2 launch metas in PvE and PvP respectively never utilized the full roster of classes (indeed, given 5 slots for .8 classes, no ranked match or dungeon run could do so). However, this wasn't necessarily due to a lack of party slots, or the "zerk meta" being some sort of problem for the game, or any particular level of supposed elitism. GW2's class bloat problem stems from its stagnant, perennial metagame: "DPS quickly or while being invincible;" and even as patches continued to roll out, the game never grew beyond this paradigm--a paradigm which, within the context of GW2's combat design, only needed a core of 3-4 classes to easily maintain. PvE meta was 3 classes: Elementalist, Warrior and Guardian; PvP meta was Thief/Mesmer, d/d Ele (because for the first year of GW2; nothing could reliably kill it) and a carousel of 2-3 "flavor of the month" builds. Half of the roster was entirely neglected for justifiable reasons: "flavor" is not gameplay. Things like Engineer, Necromancer and Ranger never consistently made it into any line-ups because they never consistently did the same thing that everyone else did to varying degrees: "DPS quickly or while being invincible." > > > > > > Moreover, all the way until HoT's release, the PvE meta remained comprised of 3 classes, and while the PvP meta swung back and forth among various class set-ups, it still only moved when certain changes pushed a particular class into the shallow, homogenized meta of low-effort DPS and gimmicks. Even now, we've seen things like Engineer go from zero to hero in PvP because of Holosmith, Druid making Ranger into a generic DPS that could also just full heal and stealth on a 15s CD (until Soulbeast took its spot), Mesmer going from a portalbot to a total menace and PvE meta, and Warrior going from a free kill in 2012-13 to being absolutely ubiquitous in every match. Every single one of these story lines basically revolves around giving classes a tremendous amount of damage buffs along with sprinkling in some tandem invincibility and health regeneration. They all exploit the same exact and incredibly narrow set of mechanics. > > > > > > Why, then, would you think that adding an eighth class to this sort of already bloated environment would be any sort of a good idea? Consider how Revenant was PvE meta for a while basically for no other reason except for its PASSIVE boon duration buff granted by Herald (it never did competitive DPS after all), and once that passive buff was nerfed, the class was effectively replaced by a RUNE SET. Can you really justify Revenant's existence? Even in PvP, it has always only been another Thief: entering combat with teleports and evading while attacking before retreating eventually if it doesn't manage to get a kill. It's biggest claim to PvP meta was only really when Staff 5 could 100-0 players (and now you notice how it was basically a free kill for ages until it got a random buff to off-hand sword; the pattern repeats). Revenant isn't a real class: it's a load of nothing that was mainly only used as a promotional advertisement for HoT. GW2 had 4 too many classes for its own good when it launched. It never needed a 9th class, and it really shows when one of the big explanations tied to Revenant's existence was "the game only had 2 heavy classes" as opposed to something like "well, we are going to invent a new combat/support niche for it." > > > > Guess we can remove every class then and create a new class that can "DPS quickly while being invincible". > > Since the classes being used "exploit the same exact and incredibly narrow set of mechanics", every class is just a bloat class because "flavor is not gameplay". > > Just say that without being super sarcastic, and you're mostly quite correct. I wouldn't say to compress it down to a single class (although, you could probably pull that off), but a core of 4 would be able to easily feature every sort of skill across all specs, weapons and traitlines which sees use right now. Yeah, i was being sarcastic at first, but to be honest, if you're already planning to remove classes, I don't see why we shouldn't just remove every class and create one or two classes that can do everything. You want to split it up to 4 classes, I think that's already too much in a flavourless game. Just 1 fighter archetype and 1 spellcaster archetype would be enough, since the weapons they use, or the spells they cast don't need to have flavour. Generic actions would suffice, as long as the numbers (dps, support/healing) are fine. Give every skill that looks like physical abilites + things like banners to the fighter, and every "spell" to the spellcaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > > > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > > > > > Kill Rev and Thief... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is why no one takes this sub forum serious. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rev is a bloat class that doesn't need to exist, and Thief is the only class that has a resource mechanic which can bypass the only thing by which every other class is balanced. Delete rev and deadeye, then just give everyone initiative. That'll never happen, but it's probably the only decent way to balance anything in gw2. Cooldown-only balance is pants on head asinine. > > > > > You can’t be serious in calling Rev bloat... if you are then you really need to explain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > GW2 launch metas in PvE and PvP respectively never utilized the full roster of classes (indeed, given 5 slots for .8 classes, no ranked match or dungeon run could do so). However, this wasn't necessarily due to a lack of party slots, or the "zerk meta" being some sort of problem for the game, or any particular level of supposed elitism. GW2's class bloat problem stems from its stagnant, perennial metagame: "DPS quickly or while being invincible;" and even as patches continued to roll out, the game never grew beyond this paradigm--a paradigm which, within the context of GW2's combat design, only needed a core of 3-4 classes to easily maintain. PvE meta was 3 classes: Elementalist, Warrior and Guardian; PvP meta was Thief/Mesmer, d/d Ele (because for the first year of GW2; nothing could reliably kill it) and a carousel of 2-3 "flavor of the month" builds. Half of the roster was entirely neglected for justifiable reasons: "flavor" is not gameplay. Things like Engineer, Necromancer and Ranger never consistently made it into any line-ups because they never consistently did the same thing that everyone else did to varying degrees: "DPS quickly or while being invincible." > > > > > > > > Moreover, all the way until HoT's release, the PvE meta remained comprised of 3 classes, and while the PvP meta swung back and forth among various class set-ups, it still only moved when certain changes pushed a particular class into the shallow, homogenized meta of low-effort DPS and gimmicks. Even now, we've seen things like Engineer go from zero to hero in PvP because of Holosmith, Druid making Ranger into a generic DPS that could also just full heal and stealth on a 15s CD (until Soulbeast took its spot), Mesmer going from a portalbot to a total menace and PvE meta, and Warrior going from a free kill in 2012-13 to being absolutely ubiquitous in every match. Every single one of these story lines basically revolves around giving classes a tremendous amount of damage buffs along with sprinkling in some tandem invincibility and health regeneration. They all exploit the same exact and incredibly narrow set of mechanics. > > > > > > > > Why, then, would you think that adding an eighth class to this sort of already bloated environment would be any sort of a good idea? Consider how Revenant was PvE meta for a while basically for no other reason except for its PASSIVE boon duration buff granted by Herald (it never did competitive DPS after all), and once that passive buff was nerfed, the class was effectively replaced by a RUNE SET. Can you really justify Revenant's existence? Even in PvP, it has always only been another Thief: entering combat with teleports and evading while attacking before retreating eventually if it doesn't manage to get a kill. It's biggest claim to PvP meta was only really when Staff 5 could 100-0 players (and now you notice how it was basically a free kill for ages until it got a random buff to off-hand sword; the pattern repeats). Revenant isn't a real class: it's a load of nothing that was mainly only used as a promotional advertisement for HoT. GW2 had 4 too many classes for its own good when it launched. It never needed a 9th class, and it really shows when one of the big explanations tied to Revenant's existence was "the game only had 2 heavy classes" as opposed to something like "well, we are going to invent a new combat/support niche for it." > > > > > > Guess we can remove every class then and create a new class that can "DPS quickly while being invincible". > > > Since the classes being used "exploit the same exact and incredibly narrow set of mechanics", every class is just a bloat class because "flavor is not gameplay". > > > > Just say that without being super sarcastic, and you're mostly quite correct. I wouldn't say to compress it down to a single class (although, you could probably pull that off), but a core of 4 would be able to easily feature every sort of skill across all specs, weapons and traitlines which sees use right now. > > Yeah, i was being sarcastic at first, but to be honest, if you're already planning to remove classes, I don't see why we shouldn't just remove every class and create one or two classes that can do everything. You want to split it up to 4 classes, I think that's already too much in a flavourless game. > Just 1 fighter archetype and 1 spellcaster archetype would be enough, since the weapons they use, or the spells they cast don't need to have flavour. Generic actions would suffice, as long as the numbers (dps, support/healing) are fine. Give every skill that looks like physical abilites + things like banners to the fighter, and every "spell" to the spellcaster. Not a terrible idea. It sucks to hold this position too, considering I enjoyed playing plenty of Ranger, Assassin, Dervish and Mesmer in GW1; but given how shallow GW2 is, it really wouldn't be hard to just compress combat (including healing/support along with area denial and defense) into 2 archetypes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominik.9721 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"pah.4931" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing they can do to get away is kite. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Plenty of classes have leaps and or ranged attacks to deal with a Revenant that is trying to get away, using phase traversal to another target just disengages you from one fight and engages you into another accomplishing absolute no safety. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've never managed to get away from a class yet by just using skills, I always have to do kiting to disengage from people. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you port away from far point to a mid target, you don't necessarily engage into another fight. Also Rev has huge kiting potential due to many evades, superspeed and counter cc. > > > > > > > > > > That is true but it's an unreliable disengage because you can't always do it unlike a teleport where you blink away to wherever you want, you can't choose where your enemy is. > > > > > Yes Rev has kiting potential but not 'huge'. Warriors and rangers have far better kiting potential because of their leaps allowing them to get to places other classes without leaps (Rev for example) can't get to. > > > > > > > > > > Rev has nothing special to disengage so I don't know why you think they do. Literally every other class besides guardian is better at disengaging from fights. > > > > > > > > > > Also regarding your "many evades and counter CC" remark, I guess the "many evades" come from riposting shadows, wich use 30 energy. Then you talk about the counter CC, the only CC a Revenant can use while trying to get away with Riposting Shadows is Surge of the mist, wich you need to use to your enemy so it's useless if you're trying to get away, or you need to use Jade Winds, wich uses 50 energy so if you're using Riposting Shadows you're unable to use Jade Winds. > > > > > > > > > > So what 'counter cc' are you talking about here? > > > > > > > > - Staff 5 evades > > > > - Staff 3 evades/blocks > > > > - Sword 3 evades and bridges cd-times > > > > - Riposting shadows evades, provides endurance again and also gains distance when used backwards > > > > - Staff 5 is an aoe cc and defintly not useless. Juking/Kiting/Disengaging is not the same as running straight from far to mid. Sudden direction changes ect. are essential > > > > - Glint elite also is a cc and if you swap to shiro you can use riposing shadows, followed by another dodge > > > > - And superspeed can sometimes be better than any 900 range leap > > > > > > > > So what's your point? > > > > > > > > If you manage your CDs carefully you can evade and negate attacks for like 10-15 seconds in a row. > > > > There is a reason why revenant is literally the best class to bait steal from thief. > > > > > > > > And just because self sustaining soulbeast is even better at juking around doesn't mean Rev isn't good at it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Staff 5 is slow, doesn't help disengaging > > > Staff 3 blocks but doesn't help disengaging > > > sword 3 makes you engage instead of disengage > > > Riposting shadows with impossible odds is your only way of disengaging but other classes have much better skills than this > > > > > > I think you don't know what disengaging means, you're talking about kiting > > > My posts are about how Revenant has poor disengaging capabilities, all the skills you named don't help you disengage a target that is determined to kill you > > > > > > You can easily kill any Revenant that overextended or is active in a fight, the only way Revenant are able to survive is by killing the enemy before they kill him, they don't have the right abilities to make a proper escape from being pressured. > > > > You can type as much as you want. > > > > Kiting is part of disengaging. > > As I said, disengaging doesn't mean running from far to mid. > > Disengaging means to leave a lost fight and to survive. > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > > @"DomHemingway.8436" said: > > > > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > > > > @"Shala.8352" said: > > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"pah.4931" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing they can do to get away is kite. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lol, your skill chain make no sense XD, that revenant never engaged in the first place! How he has the energy for Risposting Shadow- Surge of the mist - again risposting shadow lol, its 80 energy total!!! Are you sure this revenant isnt disengaging whitout even starting a fight? XD XD XD You guys never played revenant, if you did you know that what you are writing is simply science fiction! Revenant is the worst class in disengaging, sure its very good in +1, but disengaging.... maybe only second to necro! > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean the skill chain still doesn't make much sense, but you do realize rev gets his energy back when swapping to shiro? XD XD XD > > > > > > > > > > > > If I have to leave midfight on forest for example, I can easily dodge, staff 3, dodge, staff 5, (if glintheal not rdy) swapp to shiro, use riposting shadows, dodge again and 1 sec later I can target chieftain/svanir or an opponent and port away through the wall. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not wvw where you get chased openfield by a zerg or sth. > > > > > > > > > > You understand that if swapping in Shiro just like that, you can lose break stun. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ushually, you want to cc a rev when he's in glint and not in shiro for a reason. > > > > And actually this is known since 2015 HoT realese. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're actually dumb you want to CC a rev in shiro not in glint smh you really don't have a clue about Revenant and here you are making it look like you're a pro > > > > Back then in ESL you called in ts when a Rev swapped in glint to chain cc him because it was way more easy to set up combos than in shiro where he instantly would evade with reposting shadows, followed by more evades. > > And since I played in a professional environment - unlike you - in a team with Aurora, who was considered the best revenant together with Frae and Drazeh, I prolly do know more than you, ye. > > > > But ye, keep wasting your glint heal for one warrior stun and type "smh" in forums > > Yeah disengaging is more than just running from far to close, but most classes can do just that by using a skill or two. Whilst Revenant actually needs skill and kiting to disengage, wich was my point all this time but you seem to be unable to read properly. > Your point later was, that kiting and disengaging are two pairs of shoes, which is bs. > You've been in ESL? Funny, all the names you've mentioned are people I've seen videos of and already knew about them. But for some reason your name doesn't ring any bell. Probably a good reason for that. > https://www.esportsearnings.com/players/30496-grimkram- I couldn't care less if "Snellibee" who is sitting in gold division has ever seen me in a video or not. > If you have this much knowledge, you'd know attacking a rev in shiro is more worth because the chances of him having 30 energy to use riposting shadows are less likely than a revenant in glint to have infused light or signet of darkness up. Funny when a guy talks all big but everything he says is just hollow. I know that using a cc/burst combo against a rev in shiro is less worth because the chances of him using an instant evade+stunbreak with reposting shadows, followed by 3 more evades are quite high. In glint on the contrary, you are basically insta dead when you eat 2 stuns in a tf at the same time, because your stunbreak is a shitty blind instead of an instant evade which would have evaded the second stun. It has a reason that you always called in ESL when a rev swapped to glint to set up easy chain-cc. I don't even know why I have to argue with someone who was in **Gold 3** last Season allthough even below average skilled players place in platinum nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snellibee.2761 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 > @"dominik.9721" said: > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"pah.4931" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing they can do to get away is kite. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Plenty of classes have leaps and or ranged attacks to deal with a Revenant that is trying to get away, using phase traversal to another target just disengages you from one fight and engages you into another accomplishing absolute no safety. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've never managed to get away from a class yet by just using skills, I always have to do kiting to disengage from people. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you port away from far point to a mid target, you don't necessarily engage into another fight. Also Rev has huge kiting potential due to many evades, superspeed and counter cc. > > > > > > > > > > > > That is true but it's an unreliable disengage because you can't always do it unlike a teleport where you blink away to wherever you want, you can't choose where your enemy is. > > > > > > Yes Rev has kiting potential but not 'huge'. Warriors and rangers have far better kiting potential because of their leaps allowing them to get to places other classes without leaps (Rev for example) can't get to. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rev has nothing special to disengage so I don't know why you think they do. Literally every other class besides guardian is better at disengaging from fights. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also regarding your "many evades and counter CC" remark, I guess the "many evades" come from riposting shadows, wich use 30 energy. Then you talk about the counter CC, the only CC a Revenant can use while trying to get away with Riposting Shadows is Surge of the mist, wich you need to use to your enemy so it's useless if you're trying to get away, or you need to use Jade Winds, wich uses 50 energy so if you're using Riposting Shadows you're unable to use Jade Winds. > > > > > > > > > > > > So what 'counter cc' are you talking about here? > > > > > > > > > > - Staff 5 evades > > > > > - Staff 3 evades/blocks > > > > > - Sword 3 evades and bridges cd-times > > > > > - Riposting shadows evades, provides endurance again and also gains distance when used backwards > > > > > - Staff 5 is an aoe cc and defintly not useless. Juking/Kiting/Disengaging is not the same as running straight from far to mid. Sudden direction changes ect. are essential > > > > > - Glint elite also is a cc and if you swap to shiro you can use riposing shadows, followed by another dodge > > > > > - And superspeed can sometimes be better than any 900 range leap > > > > > > > > > > So what's your point? > > > > > > > > > > If you manage your CDs carefully you can evade and negate attacks for like 10-15 seconds in a row. > > > > > There is a reason why revenant is literally the best class to bait steal from thief. > > > > > > > > > > And just because self sustaining soulbeast is even better at juking around doesn't mean Rev isn't good at it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Staff 5 is slow, doesn't help disengaging > > > > Staff 3 blocks but doesn't help disengaging > > > > sword 3 makes you engage instead of disengage > > > > Riposting shadows with impossible odds is your only way of disengaging but other classes have much better skills than this > > > > > > > > I think you don't know what disengaging means, you're talking about kiting > > > > My posts are about how Revenant has poor disengaging capabilities, all the skills you named don't help you disengage a target that is determined to kill you > > > > > > > > You can easily kill any Revenant that overextended or is active in a fight, the only way Revenant are able to survive is by killing the enemy before they kill him, they don't have the right abilities to make a proper escape from being pressured. > > > > > > You can type as much as you want. > > > > > > Kiting is part of disengaging. > > > As I said, disengaging doesn't mean running from far to mid. > > > Disengaging means to leave a lost fight and to survive. > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > > > @"DomHemingway.8436" said: > > > > > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > > > > > @"Shala.8352" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"pah.4931" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing they can do to get away is kite. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lol, your skill chain make no sense XD, that revenant never engaged in the first place! How he has the energy for Risposting Shadow- Surge of the mist - again risposting shadow lol, its 80 energy total!!! Are you sure this revenant isnt disengaging whitout even starting a fight? XD XD XD You guys never played revenant, if you did you know that what you are writing is simply science fiction! Revenant is the worst class in disengaging, sure its very good in +1, but disengaging.... maybe only second to necro! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean the skill chain still doesn't make much sense, but you do realize rev gets his energy back when swapping to shiro? XD XD XD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I have to leave midfight on forest for example, I can easily dodge, staff 3, dodge, staff 5, (if glintheal not rdy) swapp to shiro, use riposting shadows, dodge again and 1 sec later I can target chieftain/svanir or an opponent and port away through the wall. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not wvw where you get chased openfield by a zerg or sth. > > > > > > > > > > > > You understand that if swapping in Shiro just like that, you can lose break stun. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ushually, you want to cc a rev when he's in glint and not in shiro for a reason. > > > > > And actually this is known since 2015 HoT realese. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're actually dumb you want to CC a rev in shiro not in glint smh you really don't have a clue about Revenant and here you are making it look like you're a pro > > > > > > Back then in ESL you called in ts when a Rev swapped in glint to chain cc him because it was way more easy to set up combos than in shiro where he instantly would evade with reposting shadows, followed by more evades. > > > And since I played in a professional environment - unlike you - in a team with Aurora, who was considered the best revenant together with Frae and Drazeh, I prolly do know more than you, ye. > > > > > > But ye, keep wasting your glint heal for one warrior stun and type "smh" in forums > > > > Yeah disengaging is more than just running from far to close, but most classes can do just that by using a skill or two. Whilst Revenant actually needs skill and kiting to disengage, wich was my point all this time but you seem to be unable to read properly. > > > Your point later was, that kiting and disengaging are two pairs of shoes, which is bs. > > > You've been in ESL? Funny, all the names you've mentioned are people I've seen videos of and already knew about them. But for some reason your name doesn't ring any bell. Probably a good reason for that. > > > https://www.esportsearnings.com/players/30496-grimkram- > I couldn't care less if "Snellibee" who is sitting in gold division has ever seen me in a video or not. > > > If you have this much knowledge, you'd know attacking a rev in shiro is more worth because the chances of him having 30 energy to use riposting shadows are less likely than a revenant in glint to have infused light or signet of darkness up. Funny when a guy talks all big but everything he says is just hollow. > > I know that using a cc/burst combo against a rev in shiro is less worth because the chances of him using an instant evade+stunbreak with reposting shadows, followed by 3 more evades are quite high. In glint on the contrary, you are basically insta dead when you eat 2 stuns in a tf at the same time, because your stunbreak is a kitten blind instead of an instant evade which would have evaded the second stun. > It has a reason that you always called in ESL when a rev swapped to glint to set up easy chain-cc. > > I don't even know why I have to argue with someone who was in **Gold 3** last Season allthough even below average skilled players place in platinum nowadays. I was gold 3 last season because I didn't care about when i played, I played during lunch etc and had over 400+ games. I'd like to see most people playing at times where MM is even more retarded and play over 400 games but still stick around gold 3/ plat. Now this season I've been in plat 2 because I played during prime times and I can honestly say the skill level is nearly the same in gold 3 as it is in plat 2. Anyways I don't understand why I'm arguing with someone that has no idea how Revenant works and just want to see it nerfed Also it's really cute you linked your profile or whatever but I still have no fucking idea who you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominik.9721 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"pah.4931" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing they can do to get away is kite. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Plenty of classes have leaps and or ranged attacks to deal with a Revenant that is trying to get away, using phase traversal to another target just disengages you from one fight and engages you into another accomplishing absolute no safety. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've never managed to get away from a class yet by just using skills, I always have to do kiting to disengage from people. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you port away from far point to a mid target, you don't necessarily engage into another fight. Also Rev has huge kiting potential due to many evades, superspeed and counter cc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is true but it's an unreliable disengage because you can't always do it unlike a teleport where you blink away to wherever you want, you can't choose where your enemy is. > > > > > > > Yes Rev has kiting potential but not 'huge'. Warriors and rangers have far better kiting potential because of their leaps allowing them to get to places other classes without leaps (Rev for example) can't get to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rev has nothing special to disengage so I don't know why you think they do. Literally every other class besides guardian is better at disengaging from fights. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also regarding your "many evades and counter CC" remark, I guess the "many evades" come from riposting shadows, wich use 30 energy. Then you talk about the counter CC, the only CC a Revenant can use while trying to get away with Riposting Shadows is Surge of the mist, wich you need to use to your enemy so it's useless if you're trying to get away, or you need to use Jade Winds, wich uses 50 energy so if you're using Riposting Shadows you're unable to use Jade Winds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So what 'counter cc' are you talking about here? > > > > > > > > > > > > - Staff 5 evades > > > > > > - Staff 3 evades/blocks > > > > > > - Sword 3 evades and bridges cd-times > > > > > > - Riposting shadows evades, provides endurance again and also gains distance when used backwards > > > > > > - Staff 5 is an aoe cc and defintly not useless. Juking/Kiting/Disengaging is not the same as running straight from far to mid. Sudden direction changes ect. are essential > > > > > > - Glint elite also is a cc and if you swap to shiro you can use riposing shadows, followed by another dodge > > > > > > - And superspeed can sometimes be better than any 900 range leap > > > > > > > > > > > > So what's your point? > > > > > > > > > > > > If you manage your CDs carefully you can evade and negate attacks for like 10-15 seconds in a row. > > > > > > There is a reason why revenant is literally the best class to bait steal from thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > And just because self sustaining soulbeast is even better at juking around doesn't mean Rev isn't good at it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Staff 5 is slow, doesn't help disengaging > > > > > Staff 3 blocks but doesn't help disengaging > > > > > sword 3 makes you engage instead of disengage > > > > > Riposting shadows with impossible odds is your only way of disengaging but other classes have much better skills than this > > > > > > > > > > I think you don't know what disengaging means, you're talking about kiting > > > > > My posts are about how Revenant has poor disengaging capabilities, all the skills you named don't help you disengage a target that is determined to kill you > > > > > > > > > > You can easily kill any Revenant that overextended or is active in a fight, the only way Revenant are able to survive is by killing the enemy before they kill him, they don't have the right abilities to make a proper escape from being pressured. > > > > > > > > You can type as much as you want. > > > > > > > > Kiting is part of disengaging. > > > > As I said, disengaging doesn't mean running from far to mid. > > > > Disengaging means to leave a lost fight and to survive. > > > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > > > > @"DomHemingway.8436" said: > > > > > > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Shala.8352" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"pah.4931" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing they can do to get away is kite. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lol, your skill chain make no sense XD, that revenant never engaged in the first place! How he has the energy for Risposting Shadow- Surge of the mist - again risposting shadow lol, its 80 energy total!!! Are you sure this revenant isnt disengaging whitout even starting a fight? XD XD XD You guys never played revenant, if you did you know that what you are writing is simply science fiction! Revenant is the worst class in disengaging, sure its very good in +1, but disengaging.... maybe only second to necro! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean the skill chain still doesn't make much sense, but you do realize rev gets his energy back when swapping to shiro? XD XD XD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I have to leave midfight on forest for example, I can easily dodge, staff 3, dodge, staff 5, (if glintheal not rdy) swapp to shiro, use riposting shadows, dodge again and 1 sec later I can target chieftain/svanir or an opponent and port away through the wall. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not wvw where you get chased openfield by a zerg or sth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You understand that if swapping in Shiro just like that, you can lose break stun. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ushually, you want to cc a rev when he's in glint and not in shiro for a reason. > > > > > > And actually this is known since 2015 HoT realese. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're actually dumb you want to CC a rev in shiro not in glint smh you really don't have a clue about Revenant and here you are making it look like you're a pro > > > > > > > > Back then in ESL you called in ts when a Rev swapped in glint to chain cc him because it was way more easy to set up combos than in shiro where he instantly would evade with reposting shadows, followed by more evades. > > > > And since I played in a professional environment - unlike you - in a team with Aurora, who was considered the best revenant together with Frae and Drazeh, I prolly do know more than you, ye. > > > > > > > > But ye, keep wasting your glint heal for one warrior stun and type "smh" in forums > > > > > > Yeah disengaging is more than just running from far to close, but most classes can do just that by using a skill or two. Whilst Revenant actually needs skill and kiting to disengage, wich was my point all this time but you seem to be unable to read properly. > > > > > Your point later was, that kiting and disengaging are two pairs of shoes, which is bs. > > > > > You've been in ESL? Funny, all the names you've mentioned are people I've seen videos of and already knew about them. But for some reason your name doesn't ring any bell. Probably a good reason for that. > > > > > https://www.esportsearnings.com/players/30496-grimkram- > > I couldn't care less if "Snellibee" who is sitting in gold division has ever seen me in a video or not. > > > > > If you have this much knowledge, you'd know attacking a rev in shiro is more worth because the chances of him having 30 energy to use riposting shadows are less likely than a revenant in glint to have infused light or signet of darkness up. Funny when a guy talks all big but everything he says is just hollow. > > > > I know that using a cc/burst combo against a rev in shiro is less worth because the chances of him using an instant evade+stunbreak with reposting shadows, followed by 3 more evades are quite high. In glint on the contrary, you are basically insta dead when you eat 2 stuns in a tf at the same time, because your stunbreak is a kitten blind instead of an instant evade which would have evaded the second stun. > > It has a reason that you always called in ESL when a rev swapped to glint to set up easy chain-cc. > > > > I don't even know why I have to argue with someone who was in **Gold 3** last Season allthough even below average skilled players place in platinum nowadays. > > I was gold 3 last season because I didn't care about when i played, I played during lunch etc and had over 400+ games. I'd like to see most people playing at times where MM is even more kitten and play over 400 games but still stick around gold 3/ plat. > > Now this season I've been in plat 2 because I played during prime times and I can honestly say the skill level is nearly the same in gold 3 as it is in plat 2. > > Anyways I don't understand why I'm arguing with someone that has no idea how Revenant works and just want to see it nerfed > > Also it's really cute you linked your profile or whatever but I still have no kitten idea who you are I don't think rev needs to be nerfed at all but I also didn't expect anything logical from a gold player who talks bs. My original post was a sarcastic answer to flänby who cries as condi mirage about revs, btw. So I'm pro rev and contra mirage and now chill your nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pah.4931 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 > @"dominik.9721" said: > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"pah.4931" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing they can do to get away is kite. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Plenty of classes have leaps and or ranged attacks to deal with a Revenant that is trying to get away, using phase traversal to another target just disengages you from one fight and engages you into another accomplishing absolute no safety. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've never managed to get away from a class yet by just using skills, I always have to do kiting to disengage from people. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you port away from far point to a mid target, you don't necessarily engage into another fight. Also Rev has huge kiting potential due to many evades, superspeed and counter cc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is true but it's an unreliable disengage because you can't always do it unlike a teleport where you blink away to wherever you want, you can't choose where your enemy is. > > > > > > > > Yes Rev has kiting potential but not 'huge'. Warriors and rangers have far better kiting potential because of their leaps allowing them to get to places other classes without leaps (Rev for example) can't get to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rev has nothing special to disengage so I don't know why you think they do. Literally every other class besides guardian is better at disengaging from fights. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also regarding your "many evades and counter CC" remark, I guess the "many evades" come from riposting shadows, wich use 30 energy. Then you talk about the counter CC, the only CC a Revenant can use while trying to get away with Riposting Shadows is Surge of the mist, wich you need to use to your enemy so it's useless if you're trying to get away, or you need to use Jade Winds, wich uses 50 energy so if you're using Riposting Shadows you're unable to use Jade Winds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So what 'counter cc' are you talking about here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Staff 5 evades > > > > > > > - Staff 3 evades/blocks > > > > > > > - Sword 3 evades and bridges cd-times > > > > > > > - Riposting shadows evades, provides endurance again and also gains distance when used backwards > > > > > > > - Staff 5 is an aoe cc and defintly not useless. Juking/Kiting/Disengaging is not the same as running straight from far to mid. Sudden direction changes ect. are essential > > > > > > > - Glint elite also is a cc and if you swap to shiro you can use riposing shadows, followed by another dodge > > > > > > > - And superspeed can sometimes be better than any 900 range leap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So what's your point? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you manage your CDs carefully you can evade and negate attacks for like 10-15 seconds in a row. > > > > > > > There is a reason why revenant is literally the best class to bait steal from thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And just because self sustaining soulbeast is even better at juking around doesn't mean Rev isn't good at it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Staff 5 is slow, doesn't help disengaging > > > > > > Staff 3 blocks but doesn't help disengaging > > > > > > sword 3 makes you engage instead of disengage > > > > > > Riposting shadows with impossible odds is your only way of disengaging but other classes have much better skills than this > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you don't know what disengaging means, you're talking about kiting > > > > > > My posts are about how Revenant has poor disengaging capabilities, all the skills you named don't help you disengage a target that is determined to kill you > > > > > > > > > > > > You can easily kill any Revenant that overextended or is active in a fight, the only way Revenant are able to survive is by killing the enemy before they kill him, they don't have the right abilities to make a proper escape from being pressured. > > > > > > > > > > You can type as much as you want. > > > > > > > > > > Kiting is part of disengaging. > > > > > As I said, disengaging doesn't mean running from far to mid. > > > > > Disengaging means to leave a lost fight and to survive. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > > > > > @"DomHemingway.8436" said: > > > > > > > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Shala.8352" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"pah.4931" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wonder if these people calling for Herald nerfs have ever tried playing it. Damage is high and it is very unforgiving. Not to mention it is very meta-dependent, since it's so weak to condi. You could leave herald alone and it will drift in and out of fashion just based on what everyone else is playing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, a great rev is really fun to watch (and OH sword number could handle slight tweaks). Sure, they are a pain to play against when driven by capable players. But they should be rewarded for piloting a difficult prof. That is the very definition of balance and all class design should strive for it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are without a doubt glass cannons. I cannot deny that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think they're just a little too able to disengage from fights. But that's the only thing I would change, everything else is just fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They literally have barely anything to disengage from fights, the only thing they can do is engage. Revenants have no teleports or stealth mechanics to get away from a fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing they can do to get away is kite. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I regularly see them pop the following rotation to disengage: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Riposting Shadows -> Surge of the Mists -> Another Riposting Shadows OR Phase Traversal to another Target, ideally one with a height difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless you're a thief or a mesmer, it's really difficult to keep up with that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lol, your skill chain make no sense XD, that revenant never engaged in the first place! How he has the energy for Risposting Shadow- Surge of the mist - again risposting shadow lol, its 80 energy total!!! Are you sure this revenant isnt disengaging whitout even starting a fight? XD XD XD You guys never played revenant, if you did you know that what you are writing is simply science fiction! Revenant is the worst class in disengaging, sure its very good in +1, but disengaging.... maybe only second to necro! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean the skill chain still doesn't make much sense, but you do realize rev gets his energy back when swapping to shiro? XD XD XD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I have to leave midfight on forest for example, I can easily dodge, staff 3, dodge, staff 5, (if glintheal not rdy) swapp to shiro, use riposting shadows, dodge again and 1 sec later I can target chieftain/svanir or an opponent and port away through the wall. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not wvw where you get chased openfield by a zerg or sth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You understand that if swapping in Shiro just like that, you can lose break stun. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ushually, you want to cc a rev when he's in glint and not in shiro for a reason. > > > > > > > And actually this is known since 2015 HoT realese. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're actually dumb you want to CC a rev in shiro not in glint smh you really don't have a clue about Revenant and here you are making it look like you're a pro > > > > > > > > > > Back then in ESL you called in ts when a Rev swapped in glint to chain cc him because it was way more easy to set up combos than in shiro where he instantly would evade with reposting shadows, followed by more evades. > > > > > And since I played in a professional environment - unlike you - in a team with Aurora, who was considered the best revenant together with Frae and Drazeh, I prolly do know more than you, ye. > > > > > > > > > > But ye, keep wasting your glint heal for one warrior stun and type "smh" in forums > > > > > > > > Yeah disengaging is more than just running from far to close, but most classes can do just that by using a skill or two. Whilst Revenant actually needs skill and kiting to disengage, wich was my point all this time but you seem to be unable to read properly. > > > > > > > Your point later was, that kiting and disengaging are two pairs of shoes, which is bs. > > > > > > > You've been in ESL? Funny, all the names you've mentioned are people I've seen videos of and already knew about them. But for some reason your name doesn't ring any bell. Probably a good reason for that. > > > > > > > https://www.esportsearnings.com/players/30496-grimkram- > > > I couldn't care less if "Snellibee" who is sitting in gold division has ever seen me in a video or not. > > > > > > > If you have this much knowledge, you'd know attacking a rev in shiro is more worth because the chances of him having 30 energy to use riposting shadows are less likely than a revenant in glint to have infused light or signet of darkness up. Funny when a guy talks all big but everything he says is just hollow. > > > > > > I know that using a cc/burst combo against a rev in shiro is less worth because the chances of him using an instant evade+stunbreak with reposting shadows, followed by 3 more evades are quite high. In glint on the contrary, you are basically insta dead when you eat 2 stuns in a tf at the same time, because your stunbreak is a kitten blind instead of an instant evade which would have evaded the second stun. > > > It has a reason that you always called in ESL when a rev swapped to glint to set up easy chain-cc. > > > > > > I don't even know why I have to argue with someone who was in **Gold 3** last Season allthough even below average skilled players place in platinum nowadays. > > > > I was gold 3 last season because I didn't care about when i played, I played during lunch etc and had over 400+ games. I'd like to see most people playing at times where MM is even more kitten and play over 400 games but still stick around gold 3/ plat. > > > > Now this season I've been in plat 2 because I played during prime times and I can honestly say the skill level is nearly the same in gold 3 as it is in plat 2. > > > > Anyways I don't understand why I'm arguing with someone that has no idea how Revenant works and just want to see it nerfed > > > > Also it's really cute you linked your profile or whatever but I still have no kitten idea who you are > > I don't think rev needs to be nerfed at all but I also didn't expect anything logical from a gold player who talks bs. > > My original post was a sarcastic answer to flänby who cries as condi mirage about revs, btw. > So I'm pro rev and contra mirage and now chill your nuts. The best part of all this is... your debate got started from quoting one of my posts. So I was notified with each new rebuttal. I feel like we're all best friends now... 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