Discussion Thread: ArenaNet News of 21 February 2019 [Merged]

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > Here's a copy of a statement from ArenaNet:

> > ArenaNet confirmed that some staff reduction was planned, though the number to be affected was not specified.

> >

> > _"We can confirm that due to the cancellation of unannounced projects, ArenaNet will make staff reductions," the statement reads. "This is part of a larger organizational restructuring within NCSOFT in the west, but the Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 game services will not be affected, nor is any upcoming game content canceled."_

> >

> > https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-02-21-arenanet-reportedly-bracing-for-mass-layoffs

>

> -

> > @"Jura.2170" said:

> > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > > _"We can confirm that due to the cancellation of unannounced projects

> >

> > I hope it doesn't mean the 3rd expansion pack

>

> Prime example of not reading the whole kitten post. Even going as far to edit out the part that is supposed to quell your fear.

"game services not affected" means only that they won't be closing any servers the game is being run on. What they meant about upcoming content however is very much open to interpretation. At worst it might mean all the content that has already been announced. At best it might mean also everything that wasn't announced but is being worked on at the moment. I'm pretty sure however that the stuff they haven't even started working on yet _isn't_ covered by this. And if you think that future GW2 development isn't going to be affected, you are far more optimistic than you should be. Because there's no way things like that won't leave a mark.

Notice also, that if something (like the next expac, for example) got cancelled or suspended _before_ the layout leaks, it isn't an "upcoming content" anymore and thus also isn't covered.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > @"Danikat.8537" said:

> > > > Saying we'll still get Season 5 after Season 4 actually tells us a lot. It means their plan hasn't changed as a result of this decision, and we're going to get at least 7 more living story releases,

> > >

> > > Why at least 7? Why not at least 3 or 4?

> >

> > seasons tend to be 6 episodes plus the final episode f the current season

> > 6+1=7

> >

> > 3 more episodes suggests season 5 is 2 episodes long

> Doesn't mean they will do so again. I might remind you that if they would've stuck to their usual patterns we would've gotten an expansion this year after LS4. That didn't happen either. So there's no telling how long LS5 will be. What I do know is that the longer it is, the longer we have to wait for the next expansion, provided there will be one.

>

 

I am not sure that one instance represents a, "usual pattern." Only once have we received an expansion after a single Living Season.

[Mikali.9651]

 

> I am not sure that one instance represents a, "usual pattern." Only once have we received an expansion after a single Living Season.

 

yes, there is no usual pattern with Anet. Things are changing all the time, at one point it is said we will never get the expansion, then we get it, then we got LS with X episodes, then the next one has X episodes and so on, and then LS will have expansion worth content. We can't talk about any numbers here, maybe LS5 will have 3 episodes, and we get expansion at the end of the year, and maybe it will have 10 episodes and we will never get expansion but the LS 5 will have elite specs and masteries + new maps and all others things so that at the end it really is expansion worthy LS. Maybe we will be done with dragons at the end of the LS5, and go into GW3, or GW2 expansion will be about gods and new continent and underworld.

 

We can only talk about things we know. LS5 will have expansion worthy content. That's it

[Erasculio.2914]

> @"Kam.4092" said:

> Is it possible for a more in depth statement from you in the near future? It would help. :/

 

Indeed. Guild Wars 2's business model relies on players believing on ArenaNet and trusting that Guild Wars 2 is going to continue to exist and evolve. Considering the recent news, it would be nice if the company could give us more information about what, exactly, is going to happen.

 

This isn't a matter of "you are just a customer, just buy the game and be quiet". Guild Wars 2 is more a service than a single product by now; for all intents and purposes, they work for us. Just like someone has to give a warning before quitting a job, it would be nice if ArenaNet gave us a warning about the future of Guild Wars 2.

 

My main concern is that they don't even know. I'm afraid for the developers, who by now probably don't even know if they still have a job. And I'm afraid for the company as a whole, as they likely still have no long term plans. This entire situation - including moving resources away from GW2 into different projects that turned out to be massive failures - reeks of poor management.

[Abazigal.3679]

> @"Awe.1096" said:

> > @"Tiviana.2650" said:

> > > @"alcopaul.2156" said:

> > > > @"Paolino.8320" said:

> > > > The gaming industry makes me sad. ANet employees deserve more than this.

> > > >

> > > > Read the full article here: https://kotaku.com/guild-wars-2-developer-arenanet-plans-for-mass-layoffs-1832799804

> > >

> > > mobile gaming has become a very big market. and almost all people in the world are carrying mobile phones anywhere.

> > >

> > > it's almost certain that desktop gaming is becoming legacy gaming already (you have to be confined in a room and have a dedicated internet connection). but you have to think that full gaming experience from a desktop is very far from a mobile phone.

> >

> > We have been saying this since blizzcon and the announcement of Diablo mobile. Rock solid pc gamers dont want to hear it, but this looks like the beginning of the end for pc. I am mad and sad about it, but nothing can really be done about it. You cant change the new generations coming up, and they are into tiny tech and mobile. Its the end of an era, blizzard laid off a bunch a few weeks back and they make a fortune still, so what does that bode for companies not as big?

> >

> > Technology is advancing faster than ever, and big ole desktop rigs and laptops are becoming dinosaurs, people have busy lives they want to be able to do what they need to do on the go.

>

> That is not true. In the scale alone PC gaming is now in better shape than it ever was. The "problem" is that potential mobile market has substantially outgrown it with easy monetization and lower development costs (= better returns and more $$$). But aside from that, the "PC gaming" as a concept is currently better developed and just overall bigger than it was in the 2000s or the 90s (before that it pretty much did not exist).

 

" Pc gaming " is much more developed than it was 20 years ago, but that was an other time too. If we go back to 2000-2005, MMO's such as ultima, everquest and then wow or GW1 were the only opportunity of playing that genre on a multiplayer view. The alternatives were very few ( Counter strike, dark age of camelot, and that's it). The PS1/PS2, or the gamecube hardly had many games you could play online. Plus, computer games had a huge advantage in terms of graphic quality.

 

The problem nowadays is true, the mobile industry has grown bigger. But also consider that most PS4/Xbox/Switch games can be played online, and have huge graphics.

Whats killing the " PC gaming " to me is more likely the fact of having games such as civilization 4 or ESO playable on Switch or PS4.

[Envy.1748]

I really do not understand why people are making such a big deal out of this.

 

Apparently most of you do not work.... It is really simple. We lay off x% of people and the rest does x% more work, if you are unwilling then please leave and we will replace you with someone who is happy to have a job.

 

My gosh, common business practice in the USA for the past 19 years.

[Evon Skyfyre.9673]

Kotaku ran an article a while back stating the games industry is not exactly a stable job anymore. 2 years or so and most have started looking elsewhere to prepare for being let go. Mobile games are killing the desktop market. When you can sit in the tub and attend a raid why wouldn't you?

[blackheartgary.8605]

okay. so i have read... enjoyed.... and was quite intrigued about every post on this particular thread. I clicked on it because i was legitimately curious about how the community at large was reacting to the news. Since the news leaked, yes leaked , on the interwebs, i have been hearing a broad brush of reactions.... from "it's the end of the game" to "we're not getting our expac or gw3" to "guys, read the actual responses from arenanet, nothing is going to be affected."

Let's stop for a moment.

For one thing... People have lost their jobs. people with families. Families that have to eat, sleep, live under a roof in warmth and feel safe. I feel Horrible for those that have been let go due to the lay-offs, as someone who has had this happen to them before due to "downsizing". IMO, Kotaku may have had the right to publishing this information, but to drop that knowledge on the web before any company was able to even meet with their employees is not only pretty shady, but think about it.... you find out you are losing your job from the internet and not your boss? I'm sorry, but that is just flat out wrong, and i sincerely hope that Kotaku understands what they have done.

second. Arenanet, Guld Wars 2 and Guild Wars, are going NOWHERE. the game is not dead, not dying, the sun will rise tomorrow and keep rising for this company and the game we all come home. the staff felt so strongly about reassuring us that they posted on these forums about it. they didn't have to. but they did. In that post, anet confirmed something very specific.... living world season 4 will move directly into living world season 5, as promised. now... for those of you who do not remember and immediately start asking "what about the expansion? why not the expansion? where's my expansion?" calm down. a several months ago, anet stated clearly the cadence of what they were planning in the future, and it appears they are sticking to their guns. they never not once stated that they were dropping an expansion after living world season 4. they did not once state they were dropping an expansion after season 5. BUT. we are still in living world season 4, and it is legitimately too early to announce the expac. it truly is. Season 5 will more than likely send us into late 2020 and then, around that time, it is pretty certain that an expansion will be announced. I understand why people question about the expansion. they assume that we had HoT after season 2(we didn't roll directly into it, there was a content drought) then season 3, then path for fire immediately after season 3, and now season 4. It is very easy to assume we would naturally go into an expansion after season 4, AND, if you didn't read or pay attention to what the developers were saying, it would be safe to say "but where is my expac?". To clarify, S4 and S5 are coming, and they are confirmed. after that, well... it's too far out to speculate or assume.

finally.... Let's get real for a moment. People will flock en masse to reports of negative news regarding any company. some people really do want to watch the world burn. the moment any game comes under fire, the negative feedback ramps up, people get scared, leave prematurely because "well this person said this so it must be so" if every major streamer, news agency, and social media website promoted this game to be the friendliest, most united and well motivated community-fueled game around, people will flock here by the hundreds. and guess what: "bless refugees". Now flip that script and you can see what is happening now: people calling for an "exodus" or "leave a sinking ship". OH COME ON. calm down, take a step back, it's not that serious. not for us. for those that lost their jobs in the past 24 hours, this news can't be any more devastating. don't forget that. but for all of us... our home will still be our home. For once, I wish the naysayers and the sharks smelling blood in the water would just go the hell away and stop hating on this game. i wish this because.... even today... new players are discovering guild wars 2. and they are getting scared too.

[derd.6413]

> @"blackheartgary.8605" said:

> okay. so i have read... enjoyed.... and was quite intrigued about every post on this particular thread. I clicked on it because i was legitimately curious about how the community at large was reacting to the news. Since the news leaked, yes leaked , on the interwebs, i have been hearing a broad brush of reactions.... from "it's the end of the game" to "we're not getting our expac or gw3" to "guys, read the actual responses from arenanet, nothing is going to be affected."

> Let's stop for a moment.

> For one thing... People have lost their jobs. people with families. Families that have to eat, sleep, live under a roof in warmth and feel safe. I feel Horrible for those that have been let go due to the lay-offs, as someone who has had this happen to them before due to "downsizing". IMO, Kotaku may have had the right to publishing this information, but to drop that knowledge on the web before any company was able to even meet with their employees is not only pretty shady, but think about it.... you find out you are losing your job from the internet and not your boss? I'm sorry, but that is just flat out wrong, and i sincerely hope that Kotaku understands what they have done.

> second. Arenanet, Guld Wars 2 and Guild Wars, are going NOWHERE. the game is not dead, not dying, the sun will rise tomorrow and keep rising for this company and the game we all come home. the staff felt so strongly about reassuring us that they posted on these forums about it. they didn't have to. but they did. In that post, anet confirmed something very specific.... living world season 4 will move directly into living world season 5, as promised. now... for those of you who do not remember and immediately start asking "what about the expansion? why not the expansion? where's my expansion?" calm down. a several months ago, anet stated clearly the cadence of what they were planning in the future, and it appears they are sticking to their guns. they never not once stated that they were dropping an expansion after living world season 4. they did not once state they were dropping an expansion after season 5. BUT. we are still in living world season 4, and it is legitimately too early to announce the expac. it truly is. Season 5 will more than likely send us into late 2020 and then, around that time, it is pretty certain that an expansion will be announced. I understand why people question about the expansion. they assume that we had HoT after season 2(we didn't roll directly into it, there was a content drought) then season 3, then path for fire immediately after season 3, and now season 4. It is very easy to assume we would naturally go into an expansion after season 4, AND, if you didn't read or pay attention to what the developers were saying, it would be safe to say "but where is my expac?". To clarify, S4 and S5 are coming, and they are confirmed. after that, well... it's too far out to speculate or assume.

> finally.... Let's get real for a moment. People will flock en masse to reports of negative news regarding any company. some people really do want to watch the world burn. the moment any game comes under fire, the negative feedback ramps up, people get scared, leave prematurely because "well this person said this so it must be so" if every major streamer, news agency, and social media website promoted this game to be the friendliest, most united and well motivated community-fueled game around, people will flock here by the hundreds. and guess what: "bless refugees". Now flip that script and you can see what is happening now: people calling for an "exodus" or "leave a sinking ship". OH COME ON. calm down, take a step back, it's not that serious. not for us. for those that lost their jobs in the past 24 hours, this news can't be any more devastating. don't forget that. but for all of us... our home will still be our home. For once, I wish the naysayers and the sharks smelling blood in the water would just go the hell away and stop hating on this game. i wish this because.... even today... new players are discovering guild wars 2. and they are getting scared too.

 

Tldr:

 

Ppl lost their job :(

Gw2 will be fine

Stop with the hysteria

[Julischka Bean.7491]

Ok. This is a very important thread title so I am posting in it. I know the policy is not to speak of things involving Guildwars2 until things are in concrete and almost ready to roll out, but, I think it is almost mandatory that we, as customers, know what is going on.

 

I will tell you why....

 

Customers who do not know what is going on are uneasy.

 

Uneasy customers do not spend money.

 

Anet needs a cash infusion.

 

Uneasy customers do not spend money.

 

Simple.

 

That said, my heart goes out to all those affected. Hugs, hugs, and more hugs.

 

Lisa.

[Rysdude.3824]

Comfort? WTF lol just how triggered are you

[Palador.2170]

Small comfort though it may be, I can tell you this: If NCSoft intends to shut down a game/studio, they don't mess around. They do it, full stop. They've done it before.

 

They're not doing that here, so it's clear they don't intend to shut down ANet or GW2.

 

They are cutting in respects to other projects under development and publishing. It may be that they want them to focus more (and only) on GW2, and reduce the chance of the studio breaking away at some point. That's not the best news for ANet, but it's not unexpected with how things are going in the gaming industry right now.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Kam.4092" said:

> EDIT: I’m not demanding to know everything, just small things like what to expect after LS5. It can be small things like hinting at a new feature

 

I am pretty annoyed with the "hinting" philosophy of GW2. Back in GW1 we were always informed about expansions being in the works, even that a GW2 was being developed and what that would means for GW1. I don't like this new GW2 secrecy; there is no reason whatsoever why we can't be told whether an expansion is in the works or not.

 

Anyway, right now, I understand the current silence. But once they have figured things out, I'd like proper communication.

[nedlee.5943]

Mass layoff means that now NCsoft's breathing down on Anet's neck to make more money.

 

People read news of 'Anet lays off dev' and think GW2's dead now, which deters new and returning players. There's no xpac on the horizon and updates has been glacially slow so existing GW2 playerbase has been steadily dropping. And since now Anet lost many devs they won't be able to make contents faster, which means the playerbase will be keep dropping in the future. Finally, Anet failed to develop a new game, so no new revenue stream other than GW2 at least for next few years.

 

Under those circumstances, how Anet's gonna get more money for NCsoft? If Anet can't, what's NC gonna do? Seems pretty clear to me.

[Aeolus.3615]

They setted the game mechanics......the way the game and players behave.

 

if they are having problems it's due their ideals ported to the game where they though game is built arround decent ideals, wich is not.

 

 

Lamersfest caused layoffs probably.

[Batel.9206]

That's exactly why I have those lyrics as my forum signature. :heart: There is no darkness so bleak that we can't get through it.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

> @"nedlee.5943" said:

> Mass layoff means that now NCsoft's breathing down on Anet's neck to make more money.

>

> People read news of 'Anet lays off dev' and think GW2's dead now, which deters new and returning players. There's no xpac on the horizon and updates has been glacially slow so existing GW2 playerbase has been steadily dropping. And since now Anet lost many devs they won't be able to make contents faster, which means the playerbase will be keep dropping in the future. Finally, Anet failed to develop a new game, so no new revenue stream other than GW2 at least for next few years.

>

> Under those circumstances, how Anet's gonna get more money for NCsoft? If Anet can't, what's NC gonna do? Seems pretty clear to me.

 

A large inflow of money will only come with serious investments. Like the announcement of a new expansion, an improved game engine, player housing etc.

 

Players need something to look forward to. Just like in the days when the last expansion for Guild Wars 1 was announced, together with the plans for Guild Wars 2. Eye of the North with the Hall of Monuments is what kept many players engaged by preparing for the big new game.

 

I don't see a GW3 coming any time soon, but GW2 needs a clear path to the future for players to stay engaged and willing to spend a lot of money. Remember that Living World only costs money, it is the expansions and the gem store that generates the revenue. Of course, we need the small LW updates to keep players in the game, but this is not enough if NCSoft wants a bigger revenue.

[Tasty Pudding.3764]

NCSoft is tired of the usual ANet "we'll release it when it's ready." Sorry, but you have to meet deadlines. GW2 was originally forecast to be released in 2009 - actually released 2012 and even then NCSoft had to breathe down their necks to get them to do it! Obviously, these unannounced projects were following the usual ANet trajectory of never being ready to be released so NCSoft stepped in and canned them.

[Substance E.4852]

> @"Envy.1748" said:

> I really do not understand why people are making such a big deal out of this.

>

> Apparently most of you do not work.... It is really simple. We lay off x% of people and the rest does x% more work, if you are unwilling then please leave and we will replace you with someone who is happy to have a job.

>

> My gosh, common business practice in the USA for the past 19 years.

 

Yes and the utter destruction of "job security" in the US has lead to an immense problem with drug abuse and depression over the last 15 years as well as people just not bothering to have families anymore.

 

But hey, maybe they're just ungrateful. I mean, who wouldn't want to work more for no increase, or even a decrease, in salary?

 

Lazy entitled people, that's who.

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

> @"trixantea.1230" said:

> Many players are worried about the future of the game. I think Anet should tell them more about its long-term schedule without spoiling them too much.

> This will calm the players worries and help Anet get better feedback about their upcoming content.

 

OK, seriously. People. Are. Losing. Their. Jobs.

 

PEOPLE are worried about their future. People have real life concerns right now that go well beyond a virtual world meant for recreation. Anet is trying to weather this storm as a company and they still don't know where THEY stand. Anet probably doesn't even know what schedule they have long or short term because they are having to do a restructure to move forward. They are trying to calm their employees and get them in the right head space to get things done. Seriously, its a kitten game. Let them get their house in order.

[Xarius.6120]

Personaly I don't think it's a good move. Even if those projects were not directly related to GW2, the tecnologies and knowledge made can always help in indirect ways.

Success is not a straight line, but there are a lot of ramifications first, to make it. Ramifications that we don't see, but not for this they are less important. This part is hard to make it undestand to people outside, or to investors that want to make money quickly.

I hope best luck for those people, I wish you the best!

For the things among Anet and NCsoft I haven't the knowledge and competence to say someting, I hope it's for the best of the employers and players.

[kurfu.5623]

> @"Jura.2170" said:

> If Anet really needs more money to keep going, would it help if they removed turning gold into gems?

>

> How would you feel if they did that?

 

It's an "exchange" - the gems you buy with gold came from a player that bought gems with real money.

[Blude.6812]

Chill-- read the 1st paragraph. https://www.pcgamer.com/guild-wars-studio-arenanet-will-reportedly-undergo-layoffs/?fbclid=IwAR1ExDFuZcbMQvkpJm-YfWLxJmknD9OPVoHQRIlg4pc401unjOm5e348DKs&utm_campaign=buffer_pcgamerfb&utm_content=bufferdfbc9&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> > @"Mikali.9651" said:

> > Not surprised at all. 400 employees is a large number to sustain, and most of those employees didn't give any money worth back. Anet was working on a number of other projects/games, while also taking people that worked on GW2 to work on those other projects.

> >

> > Thus, GW2 actually had fewer people working on it and it showed in the released content. With shorter content came less income because people just got bored, or like me, refused to give any money until actual content is released. Anet needed money to develop those other projects, so they pushed for even more gem store content. But it backfired.

> > Even though they got enough income to sustain and develop GW2, they didn't as whole for all the projects they worked on. I am sure I would not be so wrong if I say that at least 200 of employees worked on other projects. On projects that didn't give any money back, it was all just wasted money in the end.

> >

> > Then big daddy NCSoft step up, and rightfully so, they said Anet to cut the kitten, and to focus on what is released. GW2 still gets more than enough profit, but it is overshadowed by the expenses of all other projects. Remove other projects, remove 30% of people that worked on it, and suddenly you have more than enough profit to really sustain and develop current games (GW and GW2) you have, while maybe even work on one other project that actually has some future (instead of 2+).

> >

> > If anything, this is a reality check for Anet. You can't work on multiple projects at the same time if that means you will lessen the development of your current games that gives you profit - which they did do. You cannot continue to be the company that gives promises - both for us for GW2, and NCSoft for other projects while breaking them left and right. Big daddy NCSoft will not accept cancellation of multiple projects and constant start on new projects. Start using the money in a way it should be - to produce the result.

> >

> > NCSoft is NOT an evil company here. They are right. It is very simple. Use the money to produce results. No more slacking and wasting a huge amount of money without any RoI.

> >

> > Now that Anet will reduce the number of employees that worked on other projects, they will actually have far more income to work with for GW2. GW2 employees are not affected by this layoffs, at least not in a large number. Probably some of those employees will come back to work once again on GW2. Maybe we will finally get more than 1-2 developers to work on WvW and more than 1 to work on the Alliance system. Maybe we will get 1-2 more to work on PvP, same with raids.

> >

> > I can only see the positives for this layoffs in terms of how it affects GW2. It does suck for those other people cuz they will lose a job. But I am here for Guild Wars, and my game suffered for far too long. Focus on what you have already Anet. I am sure that 1 more project to work on would not be the problem, even for NCSoft, but to work on more without realizing them, yeah, I would make the same move as NCSoft.

> >

> > Thank you NCSoft for giving Anet the reality check.

>

> Agree with you to 250%. In my eyes Arenanet have themselves to blame for this happening to their company. I do feel sorry for all the people who will loose their jobs because of this. That’s unfair, since the real issue is anets managment which made all the poor decisions that lead up to this.

>

> People should stop blaming Ncsoft for this, and try to realize that this can help GW2 so much in terms of updates and content.

>

> In the end arenanet neglected GW2 which in a way means they neglected us players/customers to focus on things that we never paid for. All of us who plays this game is here for GW2, and anet needed to realize this way back. Hopefully Ncsoft has made them understand the situation.

 

Yeah anet wasted money on raids, fractals instead of the majority that is issue

[scrumsome.7198]

> @"kurfu.5623" said:

> > @"Jura.2170" said:

> > If Anet really needs more money to keep going, would it help if they removed turning gold into gems?

> >

> > How would you feel if they did that?

>

> It's an "exchange" - the gems you buy with gold came from a player that bought gems with real money.

 

Could you please link to anything where Anet is confirming this?