We Now Play In A Game Mode Where You Have To Burn Through 3 Health Bars To Kill Someone

[Farout.8207]

> @"Archeia.8905" said:

> > @"Farout.8207" said:

> >

> > Nobody asked for it and it is killing my preferred game mode.

>

> Plenty of people asked for it lol. Overall wvw is more active than I've seen it in awhile so idk how the mount is killing the game mode. Does it have issues? sure. They can be fixed tho. QQ'ing about it isn't going to change anything since it's here to stay.

>

>

 

How much time do you have playing WvW? Not trying to be rude, just trying to get some perspective about the people that are all for it. I have around 4,0000 hours playing pretty much WvW exclusively and the past few days have been horrible. When I try to roam the majority of people just mount up and run towards reinforcements. When I Zerg the lag is unbearable and I spend most of my time trying to get skills to go off. The game had issues handling the lag from the players alone and now Anet decided to double the amount of entities on the map,. If you think the current activity is healthy I don't know what to say. The vast majority of the PVE players will be gone once they get their mounts or the maps stop being a constant KTrain and I can assure you that the mode is losing veterans because of this. My guild has already had people stop playing. We had about 35 people on for reset and quit after an hour, we usually run for around three hours on reset. I really like this game mode but I will probably leave as well if this becomes the status quo. Six years was a good run.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"reddie.5861" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > > @"K THEN.5162" said:

> >

> > > Thank you for reading my qq post and I'd love to hear from you guys on how you are finding the mount as well as how you are enjoying WvW nowadays.

> >

> > As a solo roamer, I'm loving it. If I had a complaint about WvW previously, it was how much time I wasted running around on foot. The warclaw resolved that issue for me and I honestly can't say that I'm having any difficulty finding fights while roaming.

>

> dunno kitten u been doing before as solo roamer? but u get less fights now just wait for all PvE people to leave and watch your self having absolutely nothing to do as solo roamer unless u only capping sentry and camps and call it "roaming" then yes warclaw is great if ur around to fight left over blobbers or people who wanna run back to their commander goodluck, you wont harm them anymore. youre gonna hit them he just dash past you on mount youre in combat u cant mount up bye bye easy frag.

> youre on mount in this case the enemy most likely getting back to his commander the chances that you as roamer are in enemy lands is far bigger then you not being there so again bye bye chance cus he is flat out faster..

>

> there is not a single positive thing for a roamer from this warclaw.

 

Wrong. I get to the action faster and so do enemy roamers. That means more fights, less walking. Who cares about "easy frags"? Does it do something for you, killing players who can't or won't even fight back? I'm in it for those epic duels, outnumbered wins, and great escapes from impossible odds. And the warclaw just gets me to where I want to be in less time.

 

You're welcome to your own opinion, of course. But so far the warclaw has been great for me.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

if people don't wanna fight why bother? theyre probably on a zerg build and not much of a challenge anyways.

[tobin.6754]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> if people don't wanna fight why bother? theyre probably on a zerg build and not much of a challenge anyways.

 

If they don't want to fight, why bother coming to a competitive game mode? Most people that get "ganked" running back to zerg will end up being 1 push anyway.

[Blocki.4931]

> @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > > How can you even complain about the mount health when it only matters BEFORE a fight??? If they mount up during a fight by disengaging then they don't even participate in the fight whatsoever. This whole argument is flawed and awful.

> > >

> > > Because none of you want to fight and you never dismount. Unless it 50v2. But if its 2v3 and you're on the way back to your zerg oh were the gankers now. Whatever dude. Its not about winning fights for all of us or having the tactical advantage. You ever consider that some of us look for outnumbered fights because want a disadvantage? Or we want a harder fight? This promotes less fights on a small level and dumb fights on a zerg level.

> >

> > in what WORLD would people deny fights??? That is not a thing of reality, unless you're nothing more than a ganker.

> >

> >

>

> Oh the ganker term. Here it comes. I knew it wouldn't take long. So I'm a ganker if someone doesnt want to fight? Thats the criteria now? Wowwwwww. Everyone is so sensitive. None of you want to fight. Only fights I get recently is 1-2 PVE people trying to dismount me because it 1v2 in their favor and I hop off and quickly realize their builds are ridiculous and send them back to spawn at which point I try to offer help if I can whisper them. The # of people I've attacked on my warclaw while theyre on theirs just to poke and say hey you wanna fight? Only 1 and he had 10 friends around the corner who instantly turned around? He wouldn't have hopped off if they weren't there. Not even though it was a fair fight and 1v1.

 

I literally explained to you that unless you're a ganker there is no way people run away from a fight. That is all, I'm going to leave this "discussion", please at least try to engage the points I make instead of strawmanning me to death. (Or should I say dismount?)

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"tobin.6754" said:

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > if people don't wanna fight why bother? theyre probably on a zerg build and not much of a challenge anyways.

>

> If they don't want to fight, why bother coming to a competitive game mode? Most people that get "ganked" running back to zerg will end up being 1 push anyway.

 

That's not really the point. The point is why is it such a huge loss if people like that get away? Wouldn't you rather encounter players who actually want to fight a roamer? I mean, I'm not above killing people just because I see them and they're on the enemy team, but when they can't even put up a fight it's nowhere near as fun as encountering your nemesis on the field - the one who will give you a good fight every time and you never know who will come out on top.

 

I guess that's why I have a positive view of the warclaw? It gets me to those fights I want in less time and brings those same enemies to me faster as well. Who cares if helpless players who I will kill in <10 seconds get away more often?

[tobin.6754]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

 

> That's not really the point. The point is why is it such a huge loss if people like that get away? Wouldn't you rather encounter players who actually want to fight a roamer? I mean, I'm not above killing people just because I see them and they're on the enemy team, but when they can't even put up a fight it's nowhere near as fun as encountering your nemesis on the field - the one who will give you a good fight every time and you never know who will come out on top.

>

> I guess that's why I have a positive view of the warclaw? It gets me to those fights I want in less time and brings those same enemies to me faster as well. Who cares if helpless players who I will kill in <10 seconds get away more often?

 

Maybe those players should learn to fight? How do you get better if you just run away?

 

The mount didn't change much for me, roaming has been dead anyway with the "marked" debuff and stale balancing. Now people just avoid fight altogether .

[sneakytails.5629]

I have been running Daredevil with the finisher elite skill, makes the 3rd health bar cake. I plan on running banner on core Warrior for the same reason. Down state looses so many small scale fights for me.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"tobin.6754" said:

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > if people don't wanna fight why bother? theyre probably on a zerg build and not much of a challenge anyways.

>

> If they don't want to fight, why bother coming to a competitive game mode? Most people that get "ganked" running back to zerg will end up being 1 push anyway.

 

they want to fight. in zergs. sort of obvious.

[kash.9213]

I wouldn't mind the mount, even with the evades and maybe even the sniff if we do something about other marked debuffs, but the maul should at least not insta down and I should be able to cc mounted people with 3 evades.

[Duckota.4769]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > > @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > > > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > > > How can you even complain about the mount health when it only matters BEFORE a fight??? If they mount up during a fight by disengaging then they don't even participate in the fight whatsoever. This whole argument is flawed and awful.

> > > >

> > > > Because none of you want to fight and you never dismount. Unless it 50v2. But if its 2v3 and you're on the way back to your zerg oh were the gankers now. Whatever dude. Its not about winning fights for all of us or having the tactical advantage. You ever consider that some of us look for outnumbered fights because want a disadvantage? Or we want a harder fight? This promotes less fights on a small level and dumb fights on a zerg level.

> > >

> > > in what WORLD would people deny fights??? That is not a thing of reality, unless you're nothing more than a ganker.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Oh the ganker term. Here it comes. I knew it wouldn't take long. So I'm a ganker if someone doesnt want to fight? Thats the criteria now? Wowwwwww. Everyone is so sensitive. None of you want to fight. Only fights I get recently is 1-2 PVE people trying to dismount me because it 1v2 in their favor and I hop off and quickly realize their builds are ridiculous and send them back to spawn at which point I try to offer help if I can whisper them. The # of people I've attacked on my warclaw while theyre on theirs just to poke and say hey you wanna fight? Only 1 and he had 10 friends around the corner who instantly turned around? He wouldn't have hopped off if they weren't there. Not even though it was a fair fight and 1v1.

>

> I literally explained to you that unless you're a ganker there is no way people run away from a fight. That is all, I'm going to leave this "discussion", please at least try to engage the points I make instead of strawmanning me to death. (Or should I say dismount?)

 

I actually typed up a reply to this and then I realized it was best summarized by 'what....?'

[Warkind.6745]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> if people don't wanna fight why bother? theyre probably on a zerg build and not much of a challenge anyways.

 

Because if I and a few other people can stomp the people running from keep to SMC and cause a pileup, that's better odds for our tag on lord. And if we get a nice fight out of it too, that's a win in my book.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"Warkind.6745" said:

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > if people don't wanna fight why bother? theyre probably on a zerg build and not much of a challenge anyways.

>

> Because if I and a few other people can stomp the people running from keep to SMC and cause a pileup, that's better odds for our tag on lord. And if we get a nice fight out of it too, that's a win in my book.

 

so that's what you wanna do and that's fine. its a valid strategy. you can still do that with a few other people, its just not nearly as effective and you cant do it alone anymore. chances are if youre sniping reinforcements unless its a 3 way battle your side will win anyways. I think the cc immunity should be nerfed but not taken away entirely. what throws me off is that some ppl fault others for not wanting to be sniped. makes no sense.

[Warkind.6745]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"Warkind.6745" said:

> > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > if people don't wanna fight why bother? theyre probably on a zerg build and not much of a challenge anyways.

> >

> > Because if I and a few other people can stomp the people running from keep to SMC and cause a pileup, that's better odds for our tag on lord. And if we get a nice fight out of it too, that's a win in my book.

>

> so that's what you wanna do and that's fine. its a valid strategy. you can still do that with a few other people, its just not nearly as effective and you cant do it alone anymore. chances are if youre sniping reinforcements unless its a 3 way battle your side will win anyways. I think the cc immunity should be nerfed but not taken away entirely.

 

It's not effective at all anymore. On foot, people were forced to engage because otherwise they'd get pulled to combat run speed and picked off. It was in their interest to group up and push back anyone picking them off. Now if they have a mount they'll just zip in while you take out one or two people.

 

Honestly, I'd rather have the stun on dismount removed and the health lowered to 6k or so. People should know they're going to have an engagement on their hands and prepare for it as such.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"Warkind.6745" said:

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > @"Warkind.6745" said:

> > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > > if people don't wanna fight why bother? theyre probably on a zerg build and not much of a challenge anyways.

> > >

> > > Because if I and a few other people can stomp the people running from keep to SMC and cause a pileup, that's better odds for our tag on lord. And if we get a nice fight out of it too, that's a win in my book.

> >

> > so that's what you wanna do and that's fine. its a valid strategy. you can still do that with a few other people, its just not nearly as effective and you cant do it alone anymore. chances are if youre sniping reinforcements unless its a 3 way battle your side will win anyways. I think the cc immunity should be nerfed but not taken away entirely.

>

> It's not effective at all anymore. On foot, people were forced to engage because otherwise they'd get pulled to combat run speed and picked off. It was in their interest to group up and push back anyone picking them off. Now if they have a mount they'll just zip in while you take out one or two people.

>

> Honestly, I'd rather have the stun on dismount removed and the health lowered to 6k or so. People should know they're going to have an engagement on their hands and prepare for it as such.

 

yeah I don't really care tbh so whatever lol sounds fair.

[Warkind.6745]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"Warkind.6745" said:

> > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > > @"Warkind.6745" said:

> > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > > > if people don't wanna fight why bother? theyre probably on a zerg build and not much of a challenge anyways.

> > > >

> > > > Because if I and a few other people can stomp the people running from keep to SMC and cause a pileup, that's better odds for our tag on lord. And if we get a nice fight out of it too, that's a win in my book.

> > >

> > > so that's what you wanna do and that's fine. its a valid strategy. you can still do that with a few other people, its just not nearly as effective and you cant do it alone anymore. chances are if youre sniping reinforcements unless its a 3 way battle your side will win anyways. I think the cc immunity should be nerfed but not taken away entirely.

> >

> > It's not effective at all anymore. On foot, people were forced to engage because otherwise they'd get pulled to combat run speed and picked off. It was in their interest to group up and push back anyone picking them off. Now if they have a mount they'll just zip in while you take out one or two people.

> >

> > Honestly, I'd rather have the stun on dismount removed and the health lowered to 6k or so. People should know they're going to have an engagement on their hands and prepare for it as such.

>

> yeah I don't really care tbh so whatever lol sounds fair.

 

Don't reply next time then. I don't pretend to know how to comp a zerg and then feign apathy when people tell me I'm wrong; try to return the favor.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"Warkind.6745" said:

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > @"Warkind.6745" said:

> > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > > > @"Warkind.6745" said:

> > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > > > > if people don't wanna fight why bother? theyre probably on a zerg build and not much of a challenge anyways.

> > > > >

> > > > > Because if I and a few other people can stomp the people running from keep to SMC and cause a pileup, that's better odds for our tag on lord. And if we get a nice fight out of it too, that's a win in my book.

> > > >

> > > > so that's what you wanna do and that's fine. its a valid strategy. you can still do that with a few other people, its just not nearly as effective and you cant do it alone anymore. chances are if youre sniping reinforcements unless its a 3 way battle your side will win anyways. I think the cc immunity should be nerfed but not taken away entirely.

> > >

> > > It's not effective at all anymore. On foot, people were forced to engage because otherwise they'd get pulled to combat run speed and picked off. It was in their interest to group up and push back anyone picking them off. Now if they have a mount they'll just zip in while you take out one or two people.

> > >

> > > Honestly, I'd rather have the stun on dismount removed and the health lowered to 6k or so. People should know they're going to have an engagement on their hands and prepare for it as such.

> >

> > yeah I don't really care tbh so whatever lol sounds fair.

>

> Don't reply next time then. I don't pretend to know how to comp a zerg and then feign apathy when people tell me I'm wrong; try to return the favor.

 

alright pal true enough.

[Clownmug.8357]

Why is this a problem now even though it was already a thing with golems and the 5th golem mastery?

[tobin.6754]

because everyone was in golem running around wvw?

[Clownmug.8357]

> @"tobin.6754" said:

> because everyone was in golem running around wvw?

 

In case you didn't know, people can use them to contest camps while waiting for allies to respawn. It's much more annoying than the wasted time chasing some random person on a mount in the middle of nowhere.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"Warkind.6745" said:

> snips

hey you know what you could do is simply get a lot closer to the enemy zerg and wait for people to dismount / pick off squadless ppl. its risky and doesn't really address the problem sure, but at least you can still feel useful and play how you wanna play.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

While this is being discussed, i'm just waiting for that GvG complain thread to appear where mount is too op cos when they go farming bags from pugs but were able to insta raise their guildies previously but now pugs have mounts and insta mount finish that downed guy.

 

[Kovu.7560]

> @"Kolisch.4691" said:

> Please make torment damage proportional to the distance traveled.

Heh, an interesting idea, actually.

Damage-for-moving has always been a dumb mechanic as it discourages active play, changing it to a don't-run-too-far-away condition would still allow people to combat it by continuing the fight, rather than trying to run away.

 

As for the topic at hand, people are correct in asserting that the potential for both spike and ongoing damage in this game is high, complaining about a 10k health bar or someone's health while in downstate is kind of silly.

 

~ Kovu

 

[Arcaedus.7290]

This really all boils down to a matter of opinion:

 

Should people be able to avoid fights that they otherwise would have been sucked into (and likely killed) without mounts? And if so, to what degree?

 

In my opinion, a speed equalizer is a decent concept so I say yes, but to what degree? It's VERY hard to say. I can only give two examples at the extremes since the gray area in the center is too large:

 

1. If a lone mounted player is roaming around on the map trying to get somewhere, and they see a group of 5 roamers in the distance (draw distance, > 3600 units away or so), should they reserve the ability to escape that group assuming the group immediately comes after the lone player? In my opinion, yes. - Mounts DO allow the lone player to do this !

2. If a lone mounted player is sitting at spawn and is trying to push through and escape a group of 5 roamers by traveling directly through them, should they reserve the ability to escape that group assuming the group will try and kill the lone player? In my opinion, absolutely not. - Unfortunately mounts do allow the lone player to do this to some degree.

 

Addressing that gray area in the center is difficult. Where does one draw the line? I think mounts have and will bring more good to this game mode than bad so I'd prefer them to stay in, but I also hope more balance is brought to the mounts to keep scenario 1 intact, but fix scenario 2. Some good changes I've seen suggested:

 

* Make mount susceptible to CC or conditions - Still would allow that single player to escape multiple but would make it far less likely if they were just trying to charge through.

* Tie the mount's HP to player's HP so a "dismount" actually just results in the player dying - this would encourage mounted players to use up their 3 dodges and engage as soon as possible.

* Lower the mount's HP: 12k is quite a bit... I theorized at the time of announcement that 6k hp would be a good balance point for mounts such that EVEN if they worked like they do in pve (which they do right now), scenario 2 would still largely be disallowed.

* Add more game-specific counterplay to mounts. Ballista #3 skill dismounting was a very good choice, but I think we could have more. Perhaps a layable trap or even a new piece of siege (a canon that eats 5 supply from you and fires a net and all it does is dismount players).

 

I overall want mounts in the game but I think a bit more balancing would help curb complaints.

[Jasher.6580]

How the mount is right now is perfect. I disagree with all the changes suggested in this thread. The mount has made WvW even more fun that it was before.