Hey Non WvWers, what turns you off about WvW?

[TheGrimm.5624]

First off, OP good thread and to those giving feedback, feedback does help. Though at times you will still find stubborn people that believe there is only one answer to things. Your mileage will vary by server, Tag, Guild, Havoc, Roamer. To those not into zerg fights there are still options out there and plenty of fights to be had. Even by tier you will find more varied fights to be had be that at a zerg, warband, havoc, roamer level. The key to WvW is to identify what you like and don't like about it and then focus on the parts that you like while trying to minimize the stuff you don't.

 

Example from some of the above:

* You don't like zerg fights, so what do you do? You can scout, pick off reinforcements, create diversions, target other objectives, repair, defend against other attacks.

* You want to assist in a zerg fight but aren't allowed in squad. Find another, run with it anyway, regear, aid where you can, run havoc...

* You don't have WvW gear. Its ok a lot of PvXers that WvW as part of the X spec for their WvW and then just use it in PvE modes. Have 24 toons for WvW, all are outfitted for WvW and run fine in PvE.

* Looking to just go out and team up with people. You don't have to be in a squad or party to join something someone's doing. Easiest is see a tag, head that way. See a group sieging a tower, join in. See a fight, lend a hand, see people defending, lend support. Likewise you can invite people to a group, try and join open squads.

* Want to learn more and not sure where to start. That one is where we see some of the above and can be tricky, but it's like finding new friends, some are going to stick and some aren't going to go so well. Watch chat, you can gain a lot from people and what they type. Ask in chat or whisper and tag people you found helpful. Was out roaming a few weeks ago and picked up three new players. Was happy they had questions on what I was doing and the why. We formed a non-partied havoc and took out some targets and players as we went. But again if they tried to join a full guild squad, they might have different experiences, but that said there are a lot of guilds out welcoming new players and a good number advertise, you can also try one of those to pick up great information and fill in the blanks.

 

For those that tried it and were still turned back off, thanks for giving it another shot. For those that recently tried it and are still out there, welcome and good hunting. Key to me about WvW is that it's different every night, but again I identified I like variety and want that different feeling which is why I solo hunt, havoc, warband, zerg and have so many WvW toons so I can grab what I need for the activity I am looking to target. And yes to one of the repeated above, 3 of the 24 different ones are rangers. Good gaming!

[AlexxxDelta.1806]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"Dami.5046" said:

> > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> > > > Some new rewards came out a while ago with warbringer etc. I loved it so I jumped in and got kicked out of squads I was trying to play with for being the wrong class. The group wasnt even full yet I was kicked. That really turns me off when you are snubbed as a pve noob. Like ok you dont want me.... sorry I wasted your time... I'll just leave then and you will be left with the small community you have.

> > >

> > > You werent being snubbed as a pve noob, you were removed f4om squad for playing a class or build that is an actual detriment to the group.

> >

> > Another reason to dislike WvW.

> > Right there.

> > Right Right there.

>

> I honestly dont understand this point. Joining a team effort should involve trying to fit into the team. If I join a pick up basketball game I dont put on a baseball catcher's mask and glove and park myself next to the hoop expecting my team to be happy about it.

 

Not the best analogy since we are all playing the same game here and we are using the tools given to us by it. A more proper analogy would be going to a pickup game and not being able to join because you aren't wearing the exact same sneakers the others do and you are not playing in the exact same style as them . "What, you are a high-top wearing big who likes playing in the post? Get out of here noob, we only wear low tops here and shoot 3s. Because 3 is more than 2."

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Dreamy Lu.3865" said:

> I know the answer for 3 of my friends, so I can share it for them (they are not active on this forum).

> - For 1 of them: He made several tentatives. He found it boring if played the casual way, stressful and a bother if played more seriously, as in globally no fun.

 

It really mostly depends on the commander. Today, for instance, I had a lot of fun, because the commander was truly a "pro", very calm, very focused, and had a perfect grip on the squad. He even managed to send groups to different directives so we could hold most areas of the map against both enemy teams. The zerg fights were also great fun (and mosty successful) as he calls out commands quickly, repeats them several times for people to be able to follow up, and does it with a calm voice and friendly demeanor. :+1: (There are commanders I avoid for their aggressive tone or unsults they throw at their squad when it doesn't follow commands fast enough. It makes for a stressful and unpleasant gaming experience. Luckily, most commanders on our server are of the friendly kind, so it is not that hard to avoid the others. ;) )

 

Of course, not everything depends on the commander. If you have players who refuse to join voice chat in order to be able to hear commands, thus make zerg fights a terrible experience due to clouding formations (where you just can't have proper group support to survive big fights), then it's a lost case.

 

Perhaps your friend has bad experience due to this? It _is_ unstimulating to run around headlessly, never win a fight, thus avoid them altogether and just roam the map, which can be pretty boring, or get bad vibes from the (voice) chat. I know I had a super exciting fun time tonight. :)

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

The community turns me off the most, and wvw tournaments would get me excited for it again. Without tournaments there is no excitement or interest. It feels like it's on autopilot.

[Chichimec.9364]

Been playing the game since December 2018 and all of that time has been spent in PVE. Last Friday evening was the first time I tried WvW and I did so to start working toward some armor I want. WvW isn't what I expected. Rather than a strategic game what I fell into was just running around following commander tags and doing the same battles over and over again. While its all still fresh and new that's fine with me. I enjoy zerging. Over time though, I suspect it will indeed get boring. (At some point I may look into a WvW guild just to explore more strategic game play.) As a complete WvW noob, here's some things I've noticed:

- My celestial scourge following one of the standard metabuilds works just fine in large zergs where I have some breathing room to react. One on one or in small groups though, that poor scourge gets clobbered every time. In part that's because the build is still brand new to me and I'm just learning how to play it. In part it's because I am old, slow, and clumsy irl so PvP is not a place for me to shine.

- Size really does matter. On Saturday and Sunday when my color had massive turnout, we steamrolled everything in sight. I thought the commanders were really effective. On Monday and Tuesday though, my color had much smaller numbers and repeatedly got smashed by larger groups of other colors. Some of the same commanders who looked so good when they had the larger numbers didn't fare well at all when the numbers were against them.

- Before I got my Warclaw I did indeed spend an inordinate amount of time just trying to catch up to my zerg. Even with my Warclaw I'm still at the back end of the zerg and will be till I level up enough to get the next upgrade for my mount.

- The reward track progresses nicely. I got the mount in a reasonable amount of time and will shortly have my first armor box. That's what will keep me coming back. The experience track on the other hand seems painfully slow, even with exp boosters. It takes 15 points to get a speed boost for the Warclaw and that is dragging on forever. And it's really irritating both that I have to relearn auto-looting and that it will take another 10 points to get that.

- The most painful thing in my WvW experience so far though is the lag. All day today I've been lagging and disconnecting, often in the middle of massive zerg battles. Freezing up as everything is exploding around you is not my idea of a fun time. Neither is disconnecting while you are downed and struggling to heal yourself back up.

- So far I haven't noticed any serious toxicity in the game chat. From some of the comments here it seems that happens a lot on Teamspeak and Discord. I had been thinking about getting one or both of those to see how they impact WvW game play but now I'm not sure I want to. People yelling at each other is not my idea of fun game play either.

 

Anyway, that's some feedback from a freshly minted WvW noob. :)

[Funky.4861]

What puts me off is the transience and pointlessness of it all.

 

Nothing you do has any value or longevity; there's no sense of achieving anything because 5 mins later that camp/keep whatever will be flipped. It's also very, very boring; just the same old run here, kill this guard/lord, stand in the circle, run there do the same thing, kill a dolly on the way if u can be bothered. Or kill some random players, zerg tug-of-war, die, wp back somewhere lightyears away from you were, maybe go back there, maybe go somewhere else to stand in a circle for a while, you get the point :) I rarely join squads because there is no benefit and i don't think I've ever been on my servers' TS channel. The only reward for the time you've invested is the vendor trash in your inventory and pushing participation bars/ reward track bars across the screen so you can get slightly higher quality vendor trash or certain items which are otherwise unavailable or a pita to get (gift of battle, olmakhan shoulders). There are few special buffs, no events, no bosses; the effort:reward ratio is too high for casual play in my opinion.

 

What incentivises me to venture into wvw are certain reward tracks (still working on warclaw as i believe it will relieve the time it takes to get anywhere) quick/easy dailies and that's pretty much it. I'm not really a team player (though i have a raid static) and feel nothing towards my home server in wvw (megaserver destroyed any sense of community i had).

[Ashen.2907]

> @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > @"Dami.5046" said:

> > > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> > > > > Some new rewards came out a while ago with warbringer etc. I loved it so I jumped in and got kicked out of squads I was trying to play with for being the wrong class. The group wasnt even full yet I was kicked. That really turns me off when you are snubbed as a pve noob. Like ok you dont want me.... sorry I wasted your time... I'll just leave then and you will be left with the small community you have.

> > > >

> > > > You werent being snubbed as a pve noob, you were removed f4om squad for playing a class or build that is an actual detriment to the group.

> > >

> > > Another reason to dislike WvW.

> > > Right there.

> > > Right Right there.

> >

> > I honestly dont understand this point. Joining a team effort should involve trying to fit into the team. If I join a pick up basketball game I dont put on a baseball catcher's mask and glove and park myself next to the hoop expecting my team to be happy about it.

>

> Not the best analogy since we are all playing the same game here and we are using the tools given to us by it. A more proper analogy would be going to a pickup game and not being able to join because you aren't wearing the exact same sneakers the others do and you are not playing in the exact same style as them . "What, you are a high-top wearing big who likes playing in the post? Get out of here noob, we only wear low tops here and shoot 3s. Because 3 is more than 2."

 

A build that is not designed for the group's (remember that this situation is about joining other people's group) game play is not a cosmetic matter. And yes, if you join a pre-existing group with their own chosen play style but arent intending to play accordingly then its closer to my example than yours.

[BlueJin.4127]

I used to compete in fighting games, so pvp in RPG games is too simple, repetitive, and uninteresting for me (even though I’m very casual now). I still enjoy competition in any games if there are interesting objectives, but this game’s wvw objectives aren’t very interesting.

 

Edit - Oh, and I don't like how fights are decided by group size, not by strategy or skill.

[AlexxxDelta.1806]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said:

> > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > > @"Dami.5046" said:

> > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> > > > > > Some new rewards came out a while ago with warbringer etc. I loved it so I jumped in and got kicked out of squads I was trying to play with for being the wrong class. The group wasnt even full yet I was kicked. That really turns me off when you are snubbed as a pve noob. Like ok you dont want me.... sorry I wasted your time... I'll just leave then and you will be left with the small community you have.

> > > > >

> > > > > You werent being snubbed as a pve noob, you were removed f4om squad for playing a class or build that is an actual detriment to the group.

> > > >

> > > > Another reason to dislike WvW.

> > > > Right there.

> > > > Right Right there.

> > >

> > > I honestly dont understand this point. Joining a team effort should involve trying to fit into the team. If I join a pick up basketball game I dont put on a baseball catcher's mask and glove and park myself next to the hoop expecting my team to be happy about it.

> >

> > Not the best analogy since we are all playing the same game here and we are using the tools given to us by it. A more proper analogy would be going to a pickup game and not being able to join because you aren't wearing the exact same sneakers the others do and you are not playing in the exact same style as them . "What, you are a high-top wearing big who likes playing in the post? Get out of here noob, we only wear low tops here and shoot 3s. Because 3 is more than 2."

>

> A build that is not designed for the group's (remember that this situation is about joining other people's group) game play is not a cosmetic matter. And yes, if you join a pre-existing group with their own chosen play style but arent intending to play accordingly then its closer to my example than yours.

 

Well if that pickup team's sole focus was being optimal then they would be right, everyone should be shooting only 3s. It's a statistical fact that with decent enough shooters you have more chance of winning by shooting 3s instead of 2s. But that pickup game wouldn't be too interesting or fun now wouldn't it? And of course that group is free to make their own rules and pick whomever suits them the most to join. But as time passes less people come to that playground and in the end it's just that group shooting 3s with not enough people to play full court.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Mea.5491" said:

> I'm a PvE player who used to be obsessed with EotM when it was popular (I'm at 1250-ish rank thanks to it) BUT I can't get into WvW because of these reasons:

> 1. We always had something to cap in EotM but in WvW sometimes we stand around for minutes waiting for the enemy zerg to show up and/or many Commanders only defend stuff and we don't cap anything for a long time (I find this EXTREMELY boring)!

> 2. Progression and rewards felt great in EotM (before they killed it). Skirmish chests are fine but getting ranks in WvW is still a pain in the Charr tail (because of the 1st reason). I remember leveling 4 characters to 80 in a week by no-lifing EotM (without boosters)! :D It was amazing!

> 3. Maps are too big (even with Warclaw). EotM map size is perfect.

> 4. Player fights in EotM felt more fun but I can't tell why, probably because we weren't "real" WvW-ers and most of us were just a bunch of noobs. :tongue:

> 5. When I recently unlocked the Warclaw I was sad because it felt like a chore compared to EotM which I used to play all day for fun. I miss it so much, I want 2014 back. :(

>

> _"And what may get you interested in playing it more often?"_

> If we got a small and fun map like EotM.

>

> (And yes, I know EotM still exists but no one does it anymore because people can't earn stuff for Legendary armor there. I miss 50/50 EotM squads!)

 

Lol your points 1 & 4 made me snigger.. EotM is just a giant PvD karma train.. waiting around for a zerg to fight bores you.. yet you rarely actually get to fight anything other than a few guards and plenty of doors and walls in EotM.

Point 5 - Unlocking Warclaw felt like a chore, really, you can do most of it in EotM, the thing you found sooo much fun, the rest is a 20 minute chore.

Sure it might take a little while to get enough skirmish tickets to buy bits.. but it is still one of the cheapest quickest mounts to get your hands on in game.. not that I really wanted the mount in the game mode, even moreso knowing its just a wingless griffon that feels clunky. :)

[Knighthonor.4061]

> @"Tommo Chocolate.5870" said:

> I tried pretty hard to get into WvW a few years ago, but generally I agree with a lot of the posts above, the zerging/large group combat is the real problem for me. It feels like you're playing as a single unit in a strategy game, but there's no actual strategy - in part because there are no win conditions (I guess the win condition is just: have the most points when the time runs out). I tried roaming, but I either encountered groups that I obviously couldn't beat, or got spiked by permastealth thieves.

>

> I don't think there's anything that would attract me back to it though. For me, the combat system and skill system in this game are at their best with very small numbers of players (I find 1-3 is probably optimal, and even 5 is too many). Fights involving large numbers of players just feel (and look) like a mess to me, and in WvW this is exacerbated by the fact that the fights are always unbalanced - my experience was that you either win easily, or have no chance of winning at all, depending on which side happened to have the most players. I have similar feelings about large group events in PvE - I usually enjoy big events like world bosses and the big HoT group events for the spectacle rather than the gameplay, so I tend to do them once and then never go back.

 

So if WvW had trinity like healers that played a role to keep groups alive, would you be interested? Group fights wouldn't be all about DPSing a number of dps.

 

If not interested in this, what exactly would need to change to make group WvW fighting more appealing?

[Knighthonor.4061]

I would like to know if anybody have any ideas or solutions to the main complaint I see in this thread which is the Zerg vs Zerg focused pvp. How to address this problem?

[LordHanuman.5873]

For me i guess i'd have to say that it's just not my cup of tea. Whether a decent group or a group that are not so pleasant. The amt of time spent running ( no i dont have the mount) however i am not really worried about the mount. The distances it takes where you spawn i feel are just too far away. I mean face it many of us are going to die new or not new to wvw. I have played it only a handful of times just never got into it. The mount did entice me to at least go in and try the game out however it wasn't enough to make me keep going back just for the purpose of a mount.

[Mewcifer.5198]

> @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> I would like to know if anybody have any ideas or solutions to the main complaint I see in this thread which is the Zerg vs Zerg focused pvp. How to address this problem?

 

The issue is that ZvZ isn't really a "problem". It is a gamestyle preference. ZvZ is a thing because that's what WvW was designed to be like. That's why there are commander tags and squads with room for 50.

 

If people don't want to zerg they can roam. If they don't want to roam either, then the game mode just isn't for them and it shouldn't have to be "fixed" to make it for them.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

For me to be more interested in WvW zerg play, there would have to be way less AoE in the game as a whole. As it stands, the only way to counter the massive amounts of AoE put out by a large group of players is boon application. Without those boons, there is nowhere to stand, and with them, players are all but immune.

 

As far as roaming/solo/small group play goes, ANet would have to implement the following: short term CC immunity (not just 1 second of stability, which is a massive joke); get rid of stealth in its entirety; and nerf builds which can tank damage like Colossus, sustain like Wolverine and hit like Cyclops. The latter would mean reinstating opportunity costs as a factor in build design, a concept that is all but dead these days.

 

To be clear, I don't expect any of this to happen, but you asked.

[Neural.1824]

1) after 5+ years, I can confidently say that I will *never* be any good at it, so if I want a Gift of Battle sometime before the heat death of the universe, I have no choice but to enter it.

2) absurd amounts of hacking.

3) Wall top disadvantage.

4) Time zone and population problems.

5) Megaserver allowed me to meet and become friends with a lot of people form various servers, but I can't run with them in WvW

[Knighthonor.4061]

> @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> > @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > I would like to know if anybody have any ideas or solutions to the main complaint I see in this thread which is the Zerg vs Zerg focused pvp. How to address this problem?

>

> The issue is that ZvZ isn't really a "problem". It is a gamestyle preference. ZvZ is a thing because that's what WvW was designed to be like. That's why there are commander tags and squads with room for 50.

>

> If people don't want to zerg they can roam. If they don't want to roam either, then the game mode just isn't for them and it shouldn't have to be "fixed" to make it for them.

 

Well originally Squads wasnt a feature in the game. And WvW had lots of hype early on which soon died off. So there had to have been an on paper appeal to this game mode that lots of people saw an interest in, but never lived up to that envisioned fantasy.

So there is room to improve and fix whatever that may have been which halted many people excitement for this gameplay feature.

[Cronospere.8143]

The queues, I'm a player who sometimes only play for like 20-30 min. just to distract myself for a small time. If i have to wait 15 min to get into my favorite wvw map (eotm) then yeah, i wont do it.

 

other than that I play wvw when i have time.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

Doing the tasks and objectives is fun. I just dislike player encounters because the builds that are completely designed to prevent you from doing anything just makes me not want to encounter anyone. It just feel like a roadblock just trying to get back to where I was. Stealth and invul builds make be not want to even try again.

 

The lack of content to do is a huge detriment. Nothing to do outside of a capture and lose loop with no real endgame. Silverwastes is the peak of the WvW experience.

[Balsa.3951]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"Dami.5046" said:

> > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> > > > Some new rewards came out a while ago with warbringer etc. I loved it so I jumped in and got kicked out of squads I was trying to play with for being the wrong class. The group wasnt even full yet I was kicked. That really turns me off when you are snubbed as a pve noob. Like ok you dont want me.... sorry I wasted your time... I'll just leave then and you will be left with the small community you have.

> > >

> > > You werent being snubbed as a pve noob, you were removed f4om squad for playing a class or build that is an actual detriment to the group.

> >

> > Another reason to dislike WvW.

> > Right there.

> > Right Right there.

>

> I honestly dont understand this point. Joining a team effort should involve trying to fit into the team. If I join a pick up basketball game I dont put on a baseball catcher's mask and glove and park myself next to the hoop expecting my team to be happy about it.

 

Except wvw is not that hard as some commanders pretend. And often it’s a number game or a surprise another Zerg from behind while they are trying to cap the lord. Those 2 equally number zergs are very rare.

 

Had a commander who was crazy outnumbered each battle but still trying to be picky so people came he don’t let them join resulting in outnumbered fights which he lost again and again

[mtpelion.4562]

Generally speaking, my issues are:

 

1. Takes too long to get from place to place. I understand why, you don't want a rez train of defenders reinforcing something, but still, just knowing that if I log on to WvW it's going to take me several minutes of pointless running just to get to something always makes me shelve the idea of going in at all.

2. There are too many places. If the servers were full all the time, having that many nodes to attack/defend would make sense. Instead, players are forced to decide if they want to spread out and never see anyone else or clump together and zerg down every node.

3. Defense is kinda pointless. Other than 1 or 2 nodes on each map, everyone always just lets the attackers have whatever they want because we're too busy also taking whatever we want. Defenders sit around for hours with no ticks or rewards unless a zerg shows up, at which point the defenders just die.

4. Gear imbalance. For a game mode like this, defensive and offensive stats should be normalized (like PvP, but even more restrictive). Make the traits, slot skills, and player skill be the deciding factor.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Aaralyna.3104" said:

> > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > > @"Aaralyna.3104" said:

> > > What turns me off has actually more to do with some QoL.

> > >

> > > Pve > you have a gear set and slots on your character (pve works based on your items)

> > > PvP > your gear does not influence... You could technically go without.

> > > WvW > you have a gear set and slots on your character (wvw works based on your items)

> > >

> > > Now as a PvE player I only have storage on my character for 1 set of gear. Which leaves me only 2 options.

> > >

> > > 1) Play wvw on my pve gears and build (I am mainly pve player and I don't like swapping everything around)

> > > 2) Store a second set in my inventory, but that means dragging every single item over every time and less space in inventory (and still issue of no build save for easy swaps)

> > >

> > > So if we had 2 full gears/weapons slots and build templates (so I can save 2 different builds), it would be a lot easier to just hop into wvw randomly (and without annoying wvw vets for not using pve builds and items).

> >

> > It's a tricky thing. In sPVP you don't actually equip gear, but use an amulet system, which means changing your gear/build has zero cost associated with it. WvW is identical to PvE in that if you want to change your build, you need new gear, runes, sigils, etc, and can be very expensive. And while some in WvW have expressed a desire for WvW to adopt the amulet system of sPvP, many others oppose that direction because it prevents you from tinkering with different stat combinations, as well as it would invalidate all the investment players have already made in their gear.

> >

> > When I first started WvW I was using my PvE character (lolranger), and I kept telling myself that I was going to have to just live with the fact I was using PvE gear because, like you, I wasn't about to build a 2nd set of gear. That had disastrous results lol.

> >

> > Eventually I discovered that Hammer Revenant is meta for zerging, and the gear is almost identical to PvE in that a backline Rev wears zerk gear with scholar runes, with maybe some marauder trinkets. I grabbed a hammer and gave it a go, and now, I don't play my Rev in PvE at all, ever.

> >

> > Best advice I can offer is to dedicate a character to the game mode. You could try to cheese it by just getting a 2nd set of accessories, but really, WvW players use so many things that a PvE build wouldn't use, such as specific runes (pack, tormenting, vampirism, sanctuary) and sigils (cleansing, energy) that if you try to mix/mash PvE/WvW gear, you'll end up underperforming.

>

> Yes thats exactly the point. I don't mind getting the gear for wvw but i don't like to clutter my backpack with 2 gears/weapons/accessories sets (and the on the fly build changing, if something saves settings so I can swap easily that is insta fix). I know theres ppl that use another character for this but I don't really prefer to make 1 toon dedicated to wvw. I like the versitality of using anything I want at any given moment.

>

> This whole thing would be fixed if:

>

> - we have a 2nd gear slot for our whole build (weapons/trinkets/armor). So you can equip both pve as wvw equipment and just swap by the click of 1 button (other games have this)

> - we get some build template (so we can save up to 2 builds). I.e 1 build saving is the pve setup and 2nd build saving is the wvw setup.

>

> The fact that wvw needs gears unlike spvp is all fine with me. It doesn't need an amulet system.

 

Yes, the problem is felt equally in PvE, which is why I know people who have 4-5 different mesmers on their accounts, each built for a specific role (eg, WvW, Raiding, Fractals, etc)

 

What you are proposing makes perfect sense, except that ANET would prefer you pay gems for extra storage space rather than give you alternate weapon/armor tabs. If this were a subscription based game, your proposal makes sense from a QoL point of view, but as they generate revenue from people who struggle with inventory management (like moi) they aren't going to go out of their way to make it easier.

[TheGrimm.5624]

> @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> I would like to know if anybody have any ideas or solutions to the main complaint I see in this thread which is the Zerg vs Zerg focused pvp. How to address this problem?

 

The answer to this is you have to make more people to be in more locations at the same time.

 

The solutions to this aren't popular on the forum. In short you need to do the following:

* Increase the ability for people to defend (this was frowned upon on the forum and defensive siege was nerfed)

* Increase the value in holding structures (this is a PPT vs PPK counter decision issue)

* Create more incentive for defenders (defensive ability was reduced but incentive to try and defend wasn't increased & end of match rewards would favor server stacking)

* Remove the ability to rez the full dead, revives of downed players only (this would force players to have to regroup and balance out smallers groups able to down a larger forces while thinning them out as they go which would also create more opportunities for smaller group fights versus today where a larger force can just reform after a pyrrhic victory and continue on)

* Some of the above could be skipped if we had collision (unpopular since the thought is it would further increase lag, but it would make zerging harder since people would collide with each other and not be able to safely retreat back thru their zerg when they were close to being downed and people couldn't stack. Other MMOs have had this and it is a punishing system to zergs if you are caught at the front of a fight and you aren't geared for that. )

 

Some people won't defend today, and it is far easier and more rewarding to attack today and then to hold. Sun Tzu, pick the location of your battle and you have an advantage. Again this favors the zerg.

 

Havocs counter zergs by forcing them to break into smaller units to defend more locations but people tend to zerg because as havocs grow and morph into zergs more numbers are needed to counter that larger fight when the two forces cross and havocs need drivers to which not everyone wants to do. Plus if one side does not break their side down to counter these smaller attacks then it feel more like people are just playing for PPT where they are looking for smaller scale fights. So everytime there is a push for higher PPK points that may just lead more to zerging because quite often numbers win.

 

Again not popular answers but the question that needs to be asked is it easier to attack or defend and as long as the answer is attack, we will have zergs since numbers matter. Good hunting!

[Steve The Cynic.3217]

> @"anninke.7469" said:

> One main problem - I suck. Big time. So I hop in occasionally when i happen to play with someone but I don't go there alone, because I feel too lost and vulnerable and not good enough :D

 

That's OK, I suck, too. But when the mood takes me (which isn't often but itsn't *never* either(1)), I'll go in there alone because it's too much like hard work to find someone to play with. To be sure, I'm vulnerable and not good enough, but quite frankly _**I don't give a flying kitten**_. I'm there to accumulate reward track points, and to gather reward track points and to do things that give me reward track points, and *nothing else*.

 

None of the above should be interpreted as saying that I *like* WvW, by the way, just that I'll do it as a way to get something I want.

 

(1) Usually when the mood takes me to make Yet Another Gift Of Battle. The Warclaw isn't a Gift of Battle, so I'll wait until the moment is right before trying to get into zerging a Keep for the last part of the collection, because I can also gain reward track points toward a Gift of Battle.

[Mea.5491]

> @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > @"Mea.5491" said:

> > I'm a PvE player who used to be obsessed with EotM when it was popular (I'm at 1250-ish rank thanks to it) BUT I can't get into WvW because of these reasons:

> > 1. We always had something to cap in EotM but in WvW sometimes we stand around for minutes waiting for the enemy zerg to show up and/or many Commanders only defend stuff and we don't cap anything for a long time (I find this EXTREMELY boring)!

> > 2. Progression and rewards felt great in EotM (before they killed it). Skirmish chests are fine but getting ranks in WvW is still a pain in the Charr tail (because of the 1st reason). I remember leveling 4 characters to 80 in a week by no-lifing EotM (without boosters)! :D It was amazing!

> > 3. Maps are too big (even with Warclaw). EotM map size is perfect.

> > 4. Player fights in EotM felt more fun but I can't tell why, probably because we weren't "real" WvW-ers and most of us were just a bunch of noobs. :tongue:

> > 5. When I recently unlocked the Warclaw I was sad because it felt like a chore compared to EotM which I used to play all day for fun. I miss it so much, I want 2014 back. :(

> >

> > _"And what may get you interested in playing it more often?"_

> > If we got a small and fun map like EotM.

> >

> > (And yes, I know EotM still exists but no one does it anymore because people can't earn stuff for Legendary armor there. I miss 50/50 EotM squads!)

>

> Lol your points 1 & 4 made me snigger.. EotM is just a giant PvD karma train.. waiting around for a zerg to fight bores you.. yet you rarely actually get to fight anything other than a few guards and plenty of doors and walls in EotM.

> Point 5 - Unlocking Warclaw felt like a chore, really, you can do most of it in EotM, the thing you found sooo much fun, the rest is a 20 minute chore.

> Sure it might take a little while to get enough skirmish tickets to buy bits.. but it is still one of the cheapest quickest mounts to get your hands on in game.. not that I really wanted the mount in the game mode, even moreso knowing its just a wingless griffon that feels clunky. :)

 

I joined the Warclaw party late (only decided to get it for the sake of mount completion) but I had no issues getting it, it was just boring. I did try EotM but there were only 2-3 people besides me so I gave up and went to "real" WvW.

 

And yes, in EotM we used to "fight guards and walls" but at least that happened **constantly**! In WvW, sometimes we just stand and defend and stand and yaaawn~

 

OP asked a question and I answered with honesty, it's not a sin to enjoy and miss something that was popular in the past. :) Everyone likes different things!