Upcoming Warclaw bug fixes/changes

[Mighty Cole.7849]

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065"

 

Can you give us a **rough estimate** as to when Short/Medium/Long term changes might take effect?

[martin.3692]

 

> I would wonder if the CC issue is that no other mount is succeptable to CCs. It sounds more like a mount programming issue than strictly a Warclaw issue

> I don't think there should be a programming issue with it, perhaps an insignificant lack of animations you can even see the purple chains on the mounted character you are trying to immobolize, just rendering the character itself unable to move would probably work.

 

 

 

 

[Sansar.1302]

Big thank to get a few words from you on this meant alot to me.

[Kylden Ar.3724]

> @"redwing.9580" said:

> > @"Kylden Ar.3724" said:

> > > @"Memoranda.9386" said:

> > > If jump/dismounting is being removed, can the actual jump height be improved upon some?

> > >

> > > I feel like I get stuck on the smallest of obstacles frequently, and will find myself dismounting to run through areas with shoddy/tricky collision.

> >

> > This and chain pull being useless. Frankly I'm good with the low damage, but supply cost should go away.

>

> you realize the supply cost is their so that rams don't just get deleted right?

 

They won't because with their far superior damage, if you're serious about taking the tower/keep you're going to use them. Chain pull, even free, would take too long.

[TheGrimm.5624]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

 

> Medium to Long-term

> * Working on a dismount trap

> * Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

 

Dismount on both sides, that way there is a price to pay if you want to dismount another. Are you planning on this being a 1 to 1 dismount skill or 1 to many (AOE)?

 

[Ben Phongluangtham.1065]

>

> I would wonder if the CC issue is that no other mount is succeptable to CCs. It sounds more like a mount programming issue than strictly a Warclaw issue

>

 

Yeah, mounts not being affected by CC's is a general mount thing. Break-bar support already partially exists, since I think during original mount development, it was something we were considering.

 

As far as the comments about dismount traps not being used, it's certainly something we've thought about. It's one of the reasons we didn't launch with it. But it's also pretty low cost to implement. We even already had the icon for it, since it was something we had considered during warclaw development.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

Do not forget to fix the no mount areas in the catmander rooms so people can mount inside the cat boxes. That or make the achievement count by using a ca transformation like the one obtained from rollerbeetles.

 

Here's some recommendations for the warclaw:

 

* Give the mount the Exhaustion effect Daredevils get when using Dash. This will keep 3 consecutiv evades servizable without allowing too much evade spam by preventing recovering endurance while evading.

* Make the main target of Sniff keep the mark longer than the rest, and give them an effect to warn them that they are marked (so they can also feint where their group is going by moving away from them).

* Instead adding anew skill to dismount enemies, adapt the the Chain Pull skill to work on other mounts, to make it more intuitive and easier to use.

* When used on doors, it'll work as usual, switching to siege mode and consuming 1 siege to do 2000 damage.

* When used on another mount, it'll tether to the the other mount and flip over to a new "Chain Lasso" skill.

* When tethered, both mounts would get a defiance bar. When a mount breakbar breaks, the player is dismounted.

* The Chain Lasso skill would have a 1s recharge, and it would deal a tiny bit of damage or bleeding to the enemy mount (to put the enemy in combat), reduce their movement speed by 3% with a stacking effect that stacks up to 5 times (and that is lost on dismount), and remove 10% of the enemy breakbar and 5% of your own's breakbar.

* Up to 3 mounts can lasso an enemy mount, meaning they can reduce their speed up by down to -45%, and take the mount down with 10 pulls between all 3.

* The lassoed enemy can break free from a tether if they move away from the range or teleport through an ally door in a keep or tower, and their skills will not be affected, so they can also chain pull the enemy back.

* Allies and enemies can also use their soft and hard CC to help break the temporary defiance bars in mounts.

* The defiance bar in either mount would remain for 10 seconds after the tether ends, both after a mount breaks free or an enemy is dismounted.

* The lasso will also work on champions like Lords to break their defiance bar, but it will only do 2000 damage per pull at most.

* The lasso would also work on enemies with a WvW banner that gives a breakbar, but it'll be rather risky to use, since chances are they'll get damaged and dismounted instead before breaking the bar.

* This new ability could require a new tier of the WvW ability in the WvW upgrades panel.

* Add a way for non-pof players to catch up. For example:

* An improved speed effect. It could be obtained in one of several ways:

* Eternal Battlegrounds and Alpine could get shrines like the Desert that allow quickly jumping between the vicinity of their keeps. The blessing of elements from the shrines would increase out of combat speed to mount speed. But the combat speed would remain +40%.

* A new WvW ability tier for the warclaw would give it n aura that would grant out of combat speed to allies as long as they are close enough. It would not affect allies in combat.

* A simple effect that can be obtained for 5 badges of honor at any controlled objective that lasts until entering combat.

* Pulling carts.

* These would be basically 2-wheel carts with 4 seats built with 10 supply, that would allow up to 4 players to 'ride' them by using them like one would use a siege golem. They would able to use the dismount key to leave it.

* Warclaws would be able to attach themselves to one by using skill 3 on one.

* Players would only be able to ride a cart while it's attached to a mount. When the mount dismounts, the cart is detached and the passengers dismount too.

* Mount rental:

* Mount rental would be available at the main base (e.g. Citadel) and at T3 objectives. It will cost 100 hero badges and give use of a basic mount with no abilities that can only run as fast as other mounts. It will not even have the engage skill.

* To keep the warclaw skin unique to PoF owners, the appearance of the rented mount would be a blurry mist with horse-like head that kind of looks like something in-between a hobby horse and a horse-shaped cloud. Kind of like the Mistfire wolf, but blurrier, foggier, and less enticing. This will also be homage to all the dead horses we've never can see in the GW franchise, as it'll be hard to tell this is a horse if it wasn't for the horse sound it'll make.

* To avoid making this mount signal "this person does not own pof, PoF owners will also be able to buy this "Mist Horse" skin for the warclaw with skirmish tokens. This skin will not by dyeable.

* Add a new "Dolyak Walker" tier to the WvW mastery that will allow using Skill 3 to tether the mount to a dolyak. Under no other effects, the dolyak will move as fast as when under swiftness when tethered to a warclaw, but the warclaw speed will be changed to match the exact speed of the dolyak (e.g.: slower when crippled faster with superspeed). Only 3 mounts would be able to tether to a single dolyak, but there would be no bonuses for doing so. This would be mostly a way to allow following dolyaks with autorun more comfortbly.

 

Dismount trap:

 

* Make it a cone rather than a line. Or, if traps even get a wvw mastery, make the trap radius increase from a narrow line to cone with a wider and wider angle up to a circle.

* Take the opportunity to improve traps when adding a dismount trap:

* Give traps their own separate supply, let's call it 'trap parts' for now. (This will require new account data and UI modifications)

* Trap Parts will be obtainable in any controlled objective regardless of supply, including sentries and monuments, by using a new object (e.g. Dispenser) similar to the Healing Kits dispensers in sentries. There will be a cooldown to use each individual Dispenser again, so people don't sit at a dispenser spamming traps. (This will require mp and map data additions, the assesst for supply can be reused)

* Further in time, there could be a new WvW Trap mastery ability track that will improve trap effects, allow using more complex traps, increase the amount of trap parts that can be carried to up to 25, decrease the cost of deploying a trap down to 5 trap parts and reduce the cooldown of the trap dispenser up to a half. The shortest cooldown of the dispenser will be balanced based on this to avoid trap over-spam.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> >

> > I would wonder if the CC issue is that no other mount is succeptable to CCs. It sounds more like a mount programming issue than strictly a Warclaw issue

> >

>

> Yeah, mounts not being affected by CC's is a general mount thing. Break-bar support already partially exists, since I think during original mount development, it was something we were considering.

>

> As far as the comments about dismount traps not being used, it's certainly something we've thought about. It's one of the reasons we didn't launch with it. But it's also pretty low cost to implement. We even already had the icon for it, since it was something we had considered during warclaw development.

 

Good to know. Thanks.

[Chaba.5410]

Thanks for the update.

 

Is there any ETA on the bug where people coming out of stealth can appear to still be on their mounts even when they've dismounted?

[trixantea.1230]

Keep it up. These changes are in the right direction.

[martin.3692]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> As far as the comments about dismount traps not being used, it's certainly something we've thought about. It's one of the reasons we didn't launch with it. But it's also pretty low cost to implement. We even already had the icon for it, since it was something we had considered during warclaw development.

 

The traps might come in handy if used with strategy in mind by let's say commanders leading zeros but it definitely doesn't fix the issue of roaming being made essentially impossible, I've already seen many cases of looney toons themed chases in which 10 guys tried to constantly chase down one mounted player who just zig zags and throws them off each time they dismount.

 

A break bar might work but ironically only if it'll break after one cc attack. Cc is rare as it is not to even talk about ranged cc and having a break bar which is designed to break after multiple attacks is useless if you somehow unimaginably manage to hit multiple scarse cc skills on a constantly evading fast mount it means that you definitely had enough time to just lower it's hp to 0 (I can't stress enough how impossible it would be to exceed the break bar if it'll soak more then one hit)

[Jen.6021]

Thx BenP,

 

**Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.**

 

If you guys thinking in a new skill, rather than adding the behaviour to skill 1, then should be a dismount with range, so you can actually dismount from lets say 1200 range, like a chain, its the only thing that i can think right now in order to not be forced to play longbow soulbeast.

 

This is the most important change imo, maybe i can get back into game with this change.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

> @"Chaba.5410" said:

> Thanks for the update.

>

> Is there any ETA on the bug where people coming out of stealth can appear to still be on their mounts even when they've dismounted?

 

Thats a Feature!

[Chaba.5410]

> @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > Thanks for the update.

> >

> > Is there any ETA on the bug where people coming out of stealth can appear to still be on their mounts even when they've dismounted?

>

> Thats a Feature!

 

It's visual kitten. Might have to play with nameplates only to not be distracted by it.

[Ben Phongluangtham.1065]

> @"Chaba.5410" said:

> Thanks for the update.

>

> Is there any ETA on the bug where people coming out of stealth can appear to still be on their mounts even when they've dismounted?

 

Not yet, we're still looking into this one.

 

As far as rough estimates of the time. Short term is weeks. I don't want to say on the rest, as we're still figuring out our team's release cadence after recent events.

 

Oh, and the bug with the cat boxes should go on the short term fix. I'll edit my original post to add that.

 

About the chain pull usefulness: We've been considering a couple changes. But not sure when we'll get to it. Unless we do option 1 which is really easy.

1. Easy: Just up the damage

2. Not as easy: Change it to spend supply up front and try to make it a charged skill. This way we can more easily adjust the damage/supply.

[Skro.2691]

Plz make mounts not able to stealth. TY.

[Basharic.1654]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> >

> > I would wonder if the CC issue is that no other mount is succeptable to CCs. It sounds more like a mount programming issue than strictly a Warclaw issue

> >

>

> Yeah, mounts not being affected by CC's is a general mount thing. Break-bar support already partially exists, since I think during original mount development, it was something we were considering.

>

> As far as the comments about dismount traps not being used, it's certainly something we've thought about. It's one of the reasons we didn't launch with it. But it's also pretty low cost to implement. We even already had the icon for it, since it was something we had considered during warclaw development.

 

Not totally relevant to the mount discussion but:

 

The single best thing you could do with tricks and traps would be to make them capable of being set to a keybind. You don't need to change the cast times or costs, but we've literally got to perform three interface actions to use them, not to mention finding them in our bags - not a huge deal with supply traps, as those are generally used preventatively at our leisure, but painters and disablers need to be used quickly, often while maneuvering under fire.

 

It would be a massive quality of life upgrade to have at least one key bound to "Activate user-designated item in inventory." That would have a ton of usefulness across the entire game - WvW and PvE especially. Commanders could set their favorite siege, roamers/scouts/borderland moms could bind tricks and traps based on their need. PvE players could bind all manner of doodads that are barred from WvW, if not at least set to salvage kits, boosters, or food, so we don't have to open our bags as much.

[Ben Phongluangtham.1065]

> @"Mechanix.9315" said:

> Thx BenP,

>

> **Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.**

>

> If you guys thinking in a new skill, rather than adding the behaviour to skill 1, then should be a dismount with range, so you can actually dismount from lets say 1200 range, like a chain, its the only thing that i can think right now in order to not be forced to play longbow soulbeast.

>

> This is the most important change imo, maybe i can get back into game with this change.

 

Ranged attack is the current plan. Exact range tbd.

[DaFishBob.6518]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> * Working on a dismount trap

 

Make a trick version that creates a turret to shoot nets or water balloons at mounts to slow them down.

[DragonFury.6243]

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

Fix to Perfect Fit achievement will be nice too

[havenstance.1746]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> Dismounting skill should absolutely dismount both players. You're obviously acknowledging the problem a non-mounted player has vs a mounted one, so creating a situation where two mounted players results in one mounted and one dismounted doesn't make things better, and it just promotes trolling.

>

> Dismounting in this fashion should also put both players into combat so they can't just remount.

>

> Would also encourage that the dismount skill cost supply. Would be OK if Sniff did as well btw.

 

I'd be okay with Sniff costing supply as long as the cooldown was a bit shorter. 30 seconds and maybe 2 supply per sniff, that way you can watch a zerg move, but at a small price. Encourages strategy, could actually be fun :)

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> * Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

Well you cant use skill 1 without dismounting yourself... so what's there to consider? Just make skill 1 dismount.

 

Also I would still say the HP need to be knocked down a couple of thousand.

 

 

[Drastic.8920]

Please consider an ICD if a player was forced to dismount.

[Hesacon.8735]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> Dismounting skill should absolutely dismount both players. You're obviously acknowledging the problem a non-mounted player has vs a mounted one, so creating a situation where two mounted players results in one mounted and one dismounted doesn't make things better, and it just promotes trolling.

>

> Dismounting in this fashion should also put both players into combat so they can't just remount.

>

> Would also encourage that the dismount skill cost supply. Would be OK if Sniff did as well btw.

 

I am in full support of all of these. Sniff feels slightly overpowered and a supply cost would fix that. It would also give supply management meaning for scouts/roamers who typically don't have to care about this sort of thing.

[Hadi.6025]

Hey please dont infracture my post... But why wasn't this thought of before the release of Warclaw mounts? No one in the studio thought " how will other players engage each other in smaller groups? " if everyone is on mounts it's just cat and mouse and no one can dismount unless they want to engage. This ruins the WvW experience for both sides because.. 1. Theres no risk you can just Run from people you dont want to fight, theres no challenge in it. 2. Mount has too much health so even if i use maul to engage , i cant deal enough damage to get the other player off mount as im trying to catch up to them. Players always going to complain about getting ganked thats a natural occurrence in WvW . That's like saying oh man im getting outnumbered constantly. That's just the part of WvW , sometimes you will get outnumbered. Don't make it easier for that small group of players who never want to play and just Karma train for dailies and log out.

 

HOW TO BALANCE WAR CLAW:

Reduce the mount health from 10k to 5000-4000 and make BOTH players dismount when using engage target. That's how you balance war claw.

 

Thought's on defiance bar?

If it's anything like the War banner tactivators, i'm going to have to say no to that idea. Give them skills that can make them immune to CC but still give counter play like a skill that gives mount stability, instead of the current 100% immunity to all CC's. That is just ridiculous.