What kind of game GW2 is and who is it for?

[Amaranthe.3578]

I had a funny conversation with a friend today in which I tried to describe GW2 to him. All throughout the conversation he was basically laughing at me for playing it for so long.(played gw2 actively for years).

I told him its an RPG...with little to no vertical progression after leveling. He laughed.

I told him its good because you can focus on miscellaneous/cosmetic rewards and skins and he laughed after I told him all the really cool cosmetics cost real dough.

Then we talked about sPvP and after I told him that "ranked pvp" isnt really competitive because everyone just does it for the rewards over unranked the conversation was over.

Saying all those things out loud made me wonder....what kind of game GW2 is really? A RPG for people who don't like RPGs? Who is the target audience?

[Ben K.6238]

RPG means role-playing game. People think that inherently involves a system of levelling up, but it really just means a game where you play a role.

 

So what it means to "not like RPGs" is almost as vague as what a RPG can actually be. You're a character in a world. Whether you like that character, that world, and the gameplay systems offered by that world will determine whether you like the game.

[AlexxxDelta.1806]

It depends on how you define RPG. Yes, leveling up is an integral (although not mandatory) part of a RPG, even going back to the original pen&paper DnD. But GW2 has that (1-80), so it has some vertical progression, despite perception of the contrary. It also has some vertical gear progression (ascended) and after that another carrot on a stick takes its place, that being the cosmetic grind. So it has levels, some gear grind, classes and skill trees, narrative elements and allows you to RP your character in a well defined world setting. I'd say that looks like an RPG to me (with much room to improve on that imo).

 

What GW2 does **not** have, is constantly invalidating hard earned progress through level cap increases to keep you playing. But I wouldn't consider that to be an essential trait of a RPG. I don't know how "competitive" ranked PVP relates to a game being a proper RPG since it's a feature more relevant to MOBAS or the recently popular Battle Royales. Definitely not that relevant for a MMORolePlayingGame.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

GW2 is a hash. ANet tried to appeal to both the anti-MMO crowd and the pro-MMO crowd in the same game. To be fair, those two demographics both consist of many variations from pure anti and pro. The result is a game that appeals more to people who are moderate in their preferences rather than extreme. This was always going to be the case, though I didn't see it ahead of time. The extremes of those game preferences are not compatible, so appealing to both was never likely.

[Trise.2865]

The tagline was "an MMO for people who hate MMOs".

[MoriMoriMori.5349]

I would just say it's an action game with a bits of adventure (exploring) and platformer elements (JPs), and some PvP layer on top of it, which (the PvP) doesn't really have enough incentive to do it, aside from pure sports (which is boring for me, for example; take Eve Online again, for example - to be successful in mass-PvP means quite a bit there, as you really can influence the game's world if you'll acquire a huge chunk of resources trough it; you get a real status boost by being a part of strong PvP alliance; in GW2 it feels "castrated" (pardon my terms); you win, or you lose, your faction wins or loses - it doesn't matter, as there is no significant difference).

 

So except of exploring and experiencing the game's world, participating in different combat (and not so) encounters and experiencing rather average plot there is nothing to do. For me, the first 2 parts is enough for now to keep going. I'm not interested in completing something for the sake of completing, or collecting something for the same reason, so this part is total miss for me.

[Vayne.8563]

Iv'e always loved the idea of an MMO. I've always tried MMOs to be ultimately disappointed by their implementation....they were either pay to win, grind to win or focused on end game instances, rather than open world. Guild Wars 2 is an MMO that focuses more on open world than anything else. It has one of the best combat systems out there with regard to feel. It has one of the best open world systems with regard to having gotten rid of the quest hub system.

 

Guild Wars 2 removed a lot of problems other MMOs have. Competing over nodes and loot, including the need/greed system. Allowing people to get best in slot gear without actually raiding or doing end game instanced content. There's a ton of stuff this stuff does right. Also you don't have to pay real cash to get skins if you're willing to farm gold, which many people do.

 

At the end of the day, MMOs are complex organisms that each find a target market to them. I could spend a long time listing why I didn't like World of Warcraft...doesn't make it a bad game. Your friend laughing at something you like says more about him than it does about Guild Wars 2.

 

Guild Wars 2 is a game based on cooperative PvE, dynamic combat, and less linear gameplay than most MMOs provide. It's almost like a cross between a sandbox and a themepark MMO. A themebox? A sandpark? At any rate, I've played many of them, but this is the best for my particular play style.

[Vancho.8750]

I believe that the target audience for Guild wars 2 is the already grown up MMO generation, you know the people that enjoyed MMOs like Dark age of Kamelot, Everquest, WoW, but life happened and they have only like 2 to 3 hours to kill after work. The way it is constructed allows you to be casually hardcore, you don't need to be 24/7 in the game grinding but you can be on top of your game. So its the perfect MMO for the working person.

[Erasculio.2914]

> @"Trise.2865" said:

> The tagline was "an MMO for people who hate MMOs".

 

This.

 

I have always been amazed at how MMORPGs are bad games. It's pretty much a dying genre now, but during its period of glory, reviews of MMORPGs would often say the same thing: "all quests are fedex quest, as is part of the genre", "levelling is as always a grind until you get to the cap" and so on. The major flaws of those games were seen as inherent parts of the genre, instead of things to be overcome.

 

Guild Wars was trying, at least at first, to be a game that would capture the good aspects of a multiplayer RPG while not being the flawed kind of thing people call a "MMORPG". I'm not sure of how successful GW2 has been at that, but the best definition about it probably still is "a MMO for people who hate MMOs".

[SoulSin.5682]

> @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> I had a funny conversation with a friend today in which I tried to describe GW2 to him. All throughout the conversation he was basically laughing at me for playing it for so long.(played gw2 actively for years).

> I told him its an RPG...with little to no vertical progression after leveling. He laughed.

> I told him its good because you can focus on miscellaneous/cosmetic rewards and skins and he laughed after I told him all the really cool cosmetics cost real dough.

> Then we talked about sPvP and after I told him that "ranked pvp" isnt really competitive because everyone just does it for the rewards over unranked the conversation was over.

> Saying all those things out loud made me wonder....what kind of game GW2 is really? A RPG for people who don't like RPGs? Who is the target audience?

 

Please understand that when someone asks a question that they doesn't care for the answer you could've had answered anything and wouldn't really convince anyone.

 

Next week they will be playing another game simple because that they don't even value their current game either way.

[Klipso.8653]

This game is a great option for active duty military. A deployment wouldn't put you behind in progression.

Any other MMO would have you grinding months of catchup just to be able to play current content.

[joneirikb.7506]

From what I remember ANet talking about both before launch and during, they aimed to make this game be a good "Second MMO", the one people went back to between bursts of expansion pack content for other "their main" MMO's.

 

As such they made sure that gear didn't get outdated, that max level was always the same etc. This also appeals to (as someone else mentioned) people that doesn't have as much time on their hands, MMO players that has grown up and can't skip sleep and homework to game. Or just flat out would feel annoyed at having to spend such a long time to get to the good part.

 

But all over I agree with the comment above about "action adventure with action combat".

 

---

 

Now to go slightly off-topic, about the RPG part:

 

The definition of "RPG" has always been rather vague, but it can largely be split up into two camps.

 

* Mechanical: Levels, Numbers, Loot, Gear, Stats, Classes, Fireballs, etc.

* Personality: Character/Personality development (not levels), Interaction with NPC/World, Decision making, Narrative, Acting, etc.

 

Obviously most cRPG (computer/console RPG) are going to fall into the mechanical side of things, to the degree that most people consider the Mechanical part to be RPG. I blame Diablo 1, the rpg for players that hated rpg at the time. And anyone coming from that kind of mindset, the "power progression" is the entire point of the entire "RPG". So the idea of having a "power plateau" is going to completely ruin the point for those kind of players.

 

Personally I think it is ironical that MMO"RPG" games, are perhaps the one genre with the best potential to fulfill the other type, the "Personality RPG" style. Because you have so many other players to interact with and role play with. But in all practical effect, 99% of players completely ignores this and just "plays themselves" sort of, thus being the single largest break in immersion for everyone involved in the game. And even on top of that, MMO as a genre these days, are shifting more and more over to single-player experiences and only using the MMO part to basically show of the silly suits... so who knows where this will end up.

 

Personally I've enjoyed this game as an Action-Adventure, and wish they leaned more in that direction, and separated themselves further from the "Mechanic-RPG" aspect, which I honestly just find tedious and a time waste every time it applies.

[Griever.8150]

Its for the people who are tired of the old skinner box model.

 

I played WoW for a decade, was a "high end" raider from Naxx 2.0 (WoTLK's release) to midway into Legion.

 

I can't even express how tired i was to see my progression reset at every turn. When Blizzard doubled down (or hell tripled down if you consider the introduction of ridiculous amounts of RNG on top of everything else) on that model. I called it quit.

 

Have i missed even once the gear grind since i switched to this game, a couple months before PoF's release? Not at all.

 

So i guess the game is for people like me, who wants an RPG that breaks outdated conventions and respects the time and effort people put in building their character.

 

And yes this game is very much still an RPG. My Charr Thief is my own, hell its probably more unique than any WoW characters i ever had relative to the rest of the playerbase and to me that makes this game a more succesful RPG than any stats sheet simulator.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> Iv'e always loved the idea of an MMO. I've always tried MMOs to be ultimately disappointed by their implementation....they were either pay to win, grind to win or focused on end game instances, rather than open world. Guild Wars 2 is an MMO that focuses more on open world than anything else. It has one of the best combat systems out there with regard to feel. It has one of the best open world systems with regard to having gotten rid of the quest hub system.

>

> Guild Wars 2 removed a lot of problems other MMOs have. Competing over nodes and loot, including the need/greed system. Allowing people to get best in slot gear without actually raiding or doing end game instanced content. There's a ton of stuff this stuff does right. Also you don't have to pay real cash to get skins if you're willing to farm gold, which many people do.

>

> At the end of the day, MMOs are complex organisms that each find a target market to them. I could spend a long time listing why I didn't like World of Warcraft...doesn't make it a bad game. Your friend laughing at something you like says more about him than it does about Guild Wars 2.

>

> Guild Wars 2 is a game based on cooperative PvE, dynamic combat, and less linear gameplay than most MMOs provide. It's almost like a cross between a sandbox and a themepark MMO. A themebox? A sandpark? At any rate, I've played many of them, but this is the best for my particular play style.

 

I think u don’t know what sandboxing concept means....gw2 is heavy themepark.

[trev.1045]

I think it is for people who enjoy MMO's generally, it isnt THAT different to wow in my opinion

 

There are a few differences (mainly the way gear is handled) and the level caps

 

Havent raided here, so cant comment on raids.

 

The open world (in HOT ) is much harder than the open world of wow...but that probably because you simply outgear it on wow

 

The questing here is definitely better, and the living world s3 maps are brill.

 

But overall i think the differences are over exaggerated, the main thing being 'hardcore' players who want a massive gear gap between themselves and non hardcore players are better off playing wow.

 

[Gop.8713]

It's for ppl like me, so I guess that means ppl who want to play their game not work at it, who don't want to pay a subscription, and who do not want players to impede each other's access to content . . .

[Vayne.8563]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > Iv'e always loved the idea of an MMO. I've always tried MMOs to be ultimately disappointed by their implementation....they were either pay to win, grind to win or focused on end game instances, rather than open world. Guild Wars 2 is an MMO that focuses more on open world than anything else. It has one of the best combat systems out there with regard to feel. It has one of the best open world systems with regard to having gotten rid of the quest hub system.

> >

> > Guild Wars 2 removed a lot of problems other MMOs have. Competing over nodes and loot, including the need/greed system. Allowing people to get best in slot gear without actually raiding or doing end game instanced content. There's a ton of stuff this stuff does right. Also you don't have to pay real cash to get skins if you're willing to farm gold, which many people do.

> >

> > At the end of the day, MMOs are complex organisms that each find a target market to them. I could spend a long time listing why I didn't like World of Warcraft...doesn't make it a bad game. Your friend laughing at something you like says more about him than it does about Guild Wars 2.

> >

> > Guild Wars 2 is a game based on cooperative PvE, dynamic combat, and less linear gameplay than most MMOs provide. It's almost like a cross between a sandbox and a themepark MMO. A themebox? A sandpark? At any rate, I've played many of them, but this is the best for my particular play style.

>

> I think u don’t know what sandboxing concept means....gw2 is heavy themepark.

 

I know exactly what sandboxing is, with respect to MMOs. However, Guild Wars 2 is also different from other themepark MMOs, as in it's not as linear, particularly when leveling. There are other MMOs that are also non-linear but they are few and far between.

 

In essence, most MMOs give you a breadcrumb trail to follow you and pretty much have to follow them, not only from quest hub to quest hub while leveling, but from dungeon to dungeon, raid to raid when you're gearing up. It's just a single line, maybe with a couple of options. That doesn't exist here.

 

And yes, I know sandbox MMOs are where you more or less make your own content, rather than have content provided by the devs. BDO is more of a sandbox MMO. But I still found the leveling process there more linear, and I didn't like it much. You don't have to acknowledge the differences between this game and others in the genre, but there's more to live than just sandbox and themepark. Here, because you can level pretty much doing anything, it's more sandboxy, even though it's not a sandbox.

[Aeolus.3615]

@"Vayne.8563" I see your point but gw2 achieves all that trough another path, instead of gear to gear progression they focus on making players to go from elite spec to new elite spec, it’s actually like making new build for new set...where the new set is the new gimmick...

 

Gw2 being a pve game also gives u breadcrumbs for the pve history, dungeons , raids , fractals are just like farm hubs wich don’t fit on sandboxing but rather instanced adventures wich are very well themeparked.

Well the heart system m8 be another story, since they actually change the game, if player fails or wins, but somehow its a weird system, few auto atacks and heart is done or event is done, even the big event are ktrains of "wackamole keybord festivals" w/o any objectives(hearts ktrains lol) or just to kill 1 mob, this is pure themepark elements disguised.

 

Gw2 is very strong themeparked, players evolution is defined by Anet dev's with gimmicks wich is tied to the classes/builds Anet wants overperforming to carry/help the players on having better success with lesser effort, where they added the elite spec system for their progression, maps progression are limited to content defined by history only and not by player interaction ence why i talked about the event and hearts, they barelly put the sandbox element noticed to the player due how weak their effects and impact are to the game, this is themepark design as well, due how poor the options of coice for players are, actually here is 0...

Maybe that's the problem the few sandbox elements the game have are so weak and poor cared that the game feels actually empty and almost every one ending ignoring this aspects of the game.

Guild system is inexistent besides puzels, spidey races, and keybashing on a mob that is basicly a husg health spoonge to feel "hard", has i talked on another topic, guild are just chat rooms rebranded ot guilds where players have a limit of 5 to cut the effect of guilds looking actually like what they are , chatrooms.

 

Now WvW, well besides freedom on changing color of a zone/map and siege deployment theres no more aspects of sanboxing elements, all the damage structure , repair are actually themepark mehcanics that make players feel they are on a sanbox game, the mechanics of WvW itself promote fight with your zerg when there isnt any defense than actually siege something to fight for it, WvW ended being another instanced farm hub for easy low effort iventory filling.

 

So, im still confuse to whom the game is ment to be, but that's due the strange and useless changes game has been sufering due how rather than improve game mechanics it is moslty, gimmicks powercreep down and up, or the class progression trough new gimmick.

 

[Danikat.8537]

Personally I've never thought of RPGs as being about levelling up or getting new equipment, and it came as a surprise to me to learn that other people did see them that way. I'm aware that levelling up and getting better equipment happens of course, and it's often an important step in the process, but to me it's important because it enables you to reach new areas, complete new quests (or other activities) and use more skills. In other words it's a form of gating - not a bad thing because it stops players getting overwhelmed or lost - but it's just one mechanic, not the point of the entire game.

 

For me the point is the opportunity to explore the world and play through the stories the developers created. For that GW2 is great, and one reason for that is because there's less time spend levelling up and getting suitable equipment and once that's done you can go wherever you want and do whatever you want in the game instead of being restricted to the bit which unlocks the next thing you need.

[Goettel.4389]

It's a casual way to relive some of dat olde MMO stuff without the 10/15 hour a day non-living.

[Cerioth.7062]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> Personally I've never thought of RPGs as being about levelling up or getting new equipment, and it came as a surprise to me to learn that other people did see them that way. I'm aware that levelling up and getting better equipment happens of course, and it's often an important step in the process, but to me it's important because it enables you to reach new areas, complete new quests (or other activities) and use more skills. In other words it's a form of gating - not a bad thing because it stops players getting overwhelmed or lost - but it's just one mechanic, not the point of the entire game.

>

> For me the point is the opportunity to explore the world and play through the stories the developers created. For that GW2 is great, and one reason for that is because there's less time spend levelling up and getting suitable equipment and once that's done you can go wherever you want and do whatever you want in the game instead of being restricted to the bit which unlocks the next thing you need.

 

Honestly, this.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

its for casual gamers who casually grind for skins/titles to be worn in a casual manner. sometimes you will engage in combat casually, and learning how to dodge casually will allow you to casually win sometimes, plus the casual salt from casuals is always as plus.

[zealex.9410]

An mmo focushed on primarily ow content. Perfect for casual play (a couple hours per week) but not really your traditional mmo that u'd consider a main game type of deal.

 

Its a nice thing to play abit per week or to revisit every few months for a week or 2.

 

If someone is looking for an mmo like the rest to sink their teeth into for months or years tho this aint it chief.

[Kurrilino.2706]

GW2 is a really weird game.

 

It is supposed to be a RPG but it certainly isn't.

You wanna be a treasure hunter ?? You wanna be bandit ?? You wanna be trader or an animal trainer ??

Just forget it !!!!

You are the general of a whole army. "Great" you say "i can decide wars"................ well... you don't have any say in whats going on.

In fact you were just given the title of commander because people were wondering , what is my purpose here? I mean nothing to this world.

So A-Net let the NPC's call you commander without actually being a commander.

 

That leads to the next weird thing. You like to meet epic people or create a famous warband out of handpicked and customized characters?

Than keep looking. Doesn't matter you like it or not, you are in a group with people you don't like or want and they call it a guild.

 

Are you into epic always changing stories? Not here buddy, you will have to live with a fixed plot.

Dragon awakes..Dragon corrupts land..group of people don't wanna team up to fight it... you make them team up... you kill the dragon.

We had that rinse and repeat now with multiple dragons and the good news is there are Plenty o' Dragons left.

 

Did i mention they are creating new maps with every living story chapter ??? Sounds great right ? Constantly new maps with breathtaking landscapes full

of medieval live and villages to travel and have adventures for years and years. Well... New Maps yes... but imagine an empty shoe box and you throw 2 hand full

of little enemies in there.... thats it. No lore, no exploring no adventures... just a constant war zone you visit exactly 1 time and never again.

 

So what kind of game is GW2 and who is it for?

I have no freaking idea. Certainly not Fantasy RPG people.

 

 

[JTGuevara.9018]

I've played this game for 6 years. It's one of three mmos I've ever played, the others being gw1 and some other obscure mmo that I forgot the name of. The only way I can really answer this question is like this:

 

I analyze gw2 like I analyze other mmos. mmos, generally since WoW, have tried and failed to forcibly bring different gaming cultures under one tent. gw2 is no exception. You got your pvers, pvpers, wvwers, raiders, role-players, all different gaming audiences with different interests that are magically supposed to coexist! What makes it tricky is that sometimes, the interests and audiences overlap. Managing and keeping tabs on all that is near-impossible. I mean, it works, to an extent. Still, I get tired of mmos trying to please everybody. It never works. You can see an example of this with balancing. Instead of balancing according to game mode, most balance changes fall under one umbrella, guaranteed to displease a group. Still, gw2 has got it's good quirks. I respect the horizontal progression. I like the focus on cosmetics. Jumping puzzles, though not my thing, are pretty unique for this game. Fractals are pretty fun as well.

 

To me, it really comes down to corporate interests trying to steer this game in a certain direction to make the most money. That's all it really is! The players' interests don't even matter in any of this. The devs got their hands tied and can't really do much, to be honest. Also, the corporate shenanigans to me really drive the point that mmo's are a dying genre. The mmo bubble during the WoW-era has burst. I think people are migrating to more specialized mmos, or as they say(sandbox) or other game genres.