Playing without the mount is brutal

[KrHome.1920]

> @"steki.1478" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > The game is full of powercreep to increase sales. The mount is no exception. Core players do have a limited experience in one or another way. And I think that's okay regarding the fact that I did have to pay only 120 Euros for all the game content within 6 years. Nobody likes to work for free.

> >

> > Nevertheless: they should rethink whether capturing a keep should be required as this can be a frustrating task for some players on certain servers.

>

> You can always do it in off hours with 2 people or just go eotm where it's hard to fail flipping it.

>

> You don't need a zerg to flip a keep.

EotM is a good advice. Didn't come to my mind. I haven't pushed that map-button for years.

 

The rest: well I suggested to kill keep guards and wait for the zerg getting the job done in another thread, but on certain servers (I am talking about EU) this can be an impossible task for the whole matchup week leading to the mentioned frustration. There's a lot of population imbalance and even SM is held T3 for a whole week by one server sometimes.

 

Anyway: EotM then !

[ArchonWing.9480]

Well, I think there's 2 issues. Commanders just running off with mounts (even with mount this is annoying) and result in group wipe. Though this is a problem with the groups themselves.

 

The other is the reward track. Reward tracks in general move pitifully slow if you don't play a lot of wvw and is symptomatic of the bad rewards in it. Though I suppose people coming into pve would notice.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Ni In.6578" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > The "sad" truth of WvW is that you need PoF to truly compete anyway.

>

> You don't. There are viable, even meta, non-PoF builds. Backline hammer rev, for example.

Lol nobody runs revenant. Herald has been and will always be meta. I believe you are confused because everyone **say** rev, but what they mean is herald. Because revenant literally does not exist in the meta. If you go look at metabattle now there are 24 builds listed, 3 of them are revenant - all of them worst in their categories and none is for WvW.

 

I mean it's not like people would claim that vanilla guardian is meta for the frontline just because everyone say "bring a guard!"?

[ArchonWing.9480]

Eh, hammer rev is always known as herald, and it's not pof.

[Ni In.6578]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Ni In.6578" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > The "sad" truth of WvW is that you need PoF to truly compete anyway.

> >

> > You don't. There are viable, even meta, non-PoF builds. Backline hammer rev, for example.

> Lol nobody runs revenant. Herald has been and will always be meta. I believe you are confused because everyone **say** rev, but what they mean is herald. Because revenant literally does not exist in the meta. If you go look at metabattle now there are 24 builds listed, 3 of them are revenant - all of them worst in their categories and none is for WvW.

>

> I mean it's not like people would claim that vanilla guardian is meta for the frontline just because everyone say "bring a guard!"?

 

You wasted an entire paragraph on this? Of course "hammer backline rev" means herald. You're talking to someone who mains it.

 

And I should really spend a paragraph on this just for you, but I won't: Herald does not require PoF, disproving your assertion that PoF is required.

[Gop.8713]

I can't imagine the horror of trying to play wvw as a newbie without the mount, but that's probably bc I can't remember the horror of playing wvw as a newbie trying to get my gift of battle. What I do remember is that it taught me how insignificant dying in wvw is, and that's probably the most impt thing for a new person to learn anyway . . .

[Zephyra.4709]

Pretty sure they talked about rent-able mounts. No word whether or not it's got the green light.

 

Decided to use laurel farm acc (after hype died down) 0 wvw rank fresh off the boat.... aside from reward track timegate + skirmish claim tickets got it done across the span of 2 days (few hours for the non-timegated stuff).

 

**If it helps anyone** - core guard cleric/shaman stat cheap exotics for zerging. swapped to zerk ranger solo'd a tower in quiet hours let the pet tank mobs. go to eotm (place is dead) break inner + outer red keep and just kite lord out of fire rings on either ranger, guard, warr. Anything that has passive heals + aoe. Most of the time if you say in chat where you are at least 1 guy shows up... miraculously.

 

Sorry if this sounds cruel but... just play the game. It's not like every new player has the same mentality and crumbles like a snowflake if they don't get their shiny within the hour.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > They did mention of possibly considering rentals, but up till now they have not updated any news on this. If they choose not to, that will be sad indeed. They could even do one for gliders, just give both a really ugly default skin.

>

> The "sad" truth of WvW is that you need PoF to truly compete anyway. Its quite obvious that the mount is just another incentive to buy the game. And honestly... I think that is fine. GW f2p is just a taste of the game and HoT is very, very old now. Not that its impossible to play it without either, but you do get pigeonholed in your choices.

>

> Personally I would prefer it if instead of renting mounts, they added multi-seat mounts. Warclaw should be able to take 1 passenger.

 

I think this is actually a great idea. They could even make another warclaw upgrade for ability points to carry 1-2 more people. A lot of us are buried in ability points anyway, so this is probably a good addition to make all parties happy.

[Korgov.7645]

> @"L A T I O N.8923" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > > They did mention of possibly considering rentals, but up till now they have not updated any news on this. If they choose not to, that will be sad indeed. They could even do one for gliders, just give both a really ugly default skin.

> >

> > The "sad" truth of WvW is that you need PoF to truly compete anyway. Its quite obvious that the mount is just another incentive to buy the game. And honestly... I think that is fine. GW f2p is just a taste of the game and HoT is very, very old now. Not that its impossible to play it without either, but you do get pigeonholed in your choices.

> >

> > Personally I would prefer it if instead of renting mounts, they added multi-seat mounts. Warclaw should be able to take 1 passenger.

>

> Like An asura taking a charr in his backpack?

>

> That would be so funny

The passenger hanging onto the Warclaw's tail flailing around as they go. :P

[L A T I O N.8923]

> @"Korgov.7645" said:

> > @"L A T I O N.8923" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > > > They did mention of possibly considering rentals, but up till now they have not updated any news on this. If they choose not to, that will be sad indeed. They could even do one for gliders, just give both a really ugly default skin.

> > >

> > > The "sad" truth of WvW is that you need PoF to truly compete anyway. Its quite obvious that the mount is just another incentive to buy the game. And honestly... I think that is fine. GW f2p is just a taste of the game and HoT is very, very old now. Not that its impossible to play it without either, but you do get pigeonholed in your choices.

> > >

> > > Personally I would prefer it if instead of renting mounts, they added multi-seat mounts. Warclaw should be able to take 1 passenger.

> >

> > Like An asura taking a charr in his backpack?

> >

> > That would be so funny

> The passenger hanging onto the Warclaw's tail flailing around as they go. :P

 

> @"Korgov.7645" said:

> > @"L A T I O N.8923" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > > > They did mention of possibly considering rentals, but up till now they have not updated any news on this. If they choose not to, that will be sad indeed. They could even do one for gliders, just give both a really ugly default skin.

> > >

> > > The "sad" truth of WvW is that you need PoF to truly compete anyway. Its quite obvious that the mount is just another incentive to buy the game. And honestly... I think that is fine. GW f2p is just a taste of the game and HoT is very, very old now. Not that its impossible to play it without either, but you do get pigeonholed in your choices.

> > >

> > > Personally I would prefer it if instead of renting mounts, they added multi-seat mounts. Warclaw should be able to take 1 passenger.

> >

> > Like An asura taking a charr in his backpack?

> >

> > That would be so funny

> The passenger hanging onto the Warclaw's tail flailing around as they go. :P

 

'ima jump off this Cliff now'

'DONT DO IT'

'i will'

'NOOOOOOOOOOOOO'

[Vrath.1754]

> @"L A T I O N.8923" said:

> > @"Korgov.7645" said:

> > > @"L A T I O N.8923" said:

> > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > > > > They did mention of possibly considering rentals, but up till now they have not updated any news on this. If they choose not to, that will be sad indeed. They could even do one for gliders, just give both a really ugly default skin.

> > > >

> > > > The "sad" truth of WvW is that you need PoF to truly compete anyway. Its quite obvious that the mount is just another incentive to buy the game. And honestly... I think that is fine. GW f2p is just a taste of the game and HoT is very, very old now. Not that its impossible to play it without either, but you do get pigeonholed in your choices.

> > > >

> > > > Personally I would prefer it if instead of renting mounts, they added multi-seat mounts. Warclaw should be able to take 1 passenger.

> > >

> > > Like An asura taking a charr in his backpack?

> > >

> > > That would be so funny

> > The passenger hanging onto the Warclaw's tail flailing around as they go. :P

>

> > @"Korgov.7645" said:

> > > @"L A T I O N.8923" said:

> > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > > > > They did mention of possibly considering rentals, but up till now they have not updated any news on this. If they choose not to, that will be sad indeed. They could even do one for gliders, just give both a really ugly default skin.

> > > >

> > > > The "sad" truth of WvW is that you need PoF to truly compete anyway. Its quite obvious that the mount is just another incentive to buy the game. And honestly... I think that is fine. GW f2p is just a taste of the game and HoT is very, very old now. Not that its impossible to play it without either, but you do get pigeonholed in your choices.

> > > >

> > > > Personally I would prefer it if instead of renting mounts, they added multi-seat mounts. Warclaw should be able to take 1 passenger.

> > >

> > > Like An asura taking a charr in his backpack?

> > >

> > > That would be so funny

> > The passenger hanging onto the Warclaw's tail flailing around as they go. :P

>

> 'ima jump off this Cliff now'

> 'DONT DO IT'

> 'i will'

> 'NOOOOOOOOOOOOO'

 

In WoW I used have a lot of fun running my friends around on mounts in the side car of the motorcycle or on the 2 seater rocket. GW2 should've had that in mind with the mount. A mount that was inclusive and fun, you can help people by giving them a lift and having fun driving friends around instead of a combat focused mount that just degraded the experience of WvW. Most of this issues it's had, including making it a worse experience for new and returning players werent hard to see coming. Most players in general dont visit the forums this is important to remember. The new and returning players are much less likely to be on here for advice to help them recover from being mount pummeled and left behind, what they will do is just leave and not come back the worst possible outcome really.

[Aridon.8362]

It took me a total of about 8 hours with about 4 hours of gameplay each day to get the mount.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

There's many possibilities to solve the issue of players not catching up with tags. Here's some examples:

 

* Change the Blessing of Elements effect to let players run as fast as warclaws, but only while out of combat. Players would be able to get this effect at the home bases, captured objectives, Shrines and Sentry posts. Alpine and EB would also get shrines around their keeps like Desert borderlands.

* Mount rentals just for movement, without the skills.

* Accompanying methods:

* Carts you can build with siege for other players to ride. Once build, a player riding a warclaw would be able to use skill 3 to tether the cart to the claw, then other players would ride the cart. The carts could maybe also used to transport siege with a small base like arrow carts, moving slower than mounts.

* A new 'Pillion' WvW ability upgrade that allows an ally to ride the warclaw behind the rider.

* A new upgrade in the warclaw mastery WvW ability that allows you to lend a 'holoclaw' to an ally. You target the ally, use the skill, they get an effect, and they'd be able able to ride a holographic version of the warclaw along you as long as they are close to you.

[Cristalyan.5728]

> @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> There's many possibilities to solve the issue of players not catching up with tags. Here's some examples:

>

> * Change the Blessing of Elements effect to let players run as fast as warclaws, but only while out of combat. Players would be able to get this effect at the home bases, captured objectives, Shrines and Sentry posts. Alpine and EB would also get shrines around their keeps like Desert borderlands.

> * Mount rentals just for movement, without the skills.

> * Accompanying methods:

> * Carts you can build with siege for other players to ride. Once build, a player riding a warclaw would be able to use skill 3 to tether the cart to the claw, then other players would ride the cart. The carts could maybe also used to transport siege with a small base like arrow carts, moving slower than mounts.

> * A new 'Pillion' WvW ability upgrade that allows an ally to ride the warclaw behind the rider.

> * A new upgrade in the warclaw mastery WvW ability that allows you to lend a 'holoclaw' to an ally. You target the ally, use the skill, they get an effect, and they'd be able able to ride a holographic version of the warclaw along you as long as they are close to you.

 

All the new reported issues started with the release of a mount having **combat skills / mobility skills** in a PvP environment. Adding more skills will only multiply the issues.

 

I suggest a different approach:

- Reduce the speed of the mount to the speed of a player when you are in your own territory. Reduce the speed of the mount to the speed of a player in combat when you are in enemy teritory.

- Reduce the damage of the mount dealt to the gates to half its actual value. Double the number of resources needed for a hit.

- Reduce the health of the mount to 1000 - 1500 HP (just enough to resist one attack from a NPC)

- Dismounting a player results in instant death of the dismounted player (or at least a downed state)

- Reduce the numbers of invulnerable dodges to zero if you have no mastery. Increase it to 1 if you have mastery for mount.

- Disable the possibility to contest/capture objectives while mounted.

- Keep the finisher attack against downed players but reduce the damage of the engage attack against non downed targets to zero.

 

In this way the new players will have no problems following a squad. The PvE community will be happy - they have already the mount in PvE. The WvW cannot have reasons of dissatisfaction - the changes are for all, nobody will be favored.

 

I won't comment here the suggestion with the mobile sieges - we already have this. Think at the Golems and at the Charr chariot.

[Blocki.4931]

Edit: Honestly, no. This isn't worth my time. Feel free to delete my post mods.

 

This is actually insane.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

> @"Cristalyan.5728" said:

>- Reduce the speed of the mount to the speed of a player when you are in your own territory. Reduce the speed of the mount to the speed of a player in combat when you are in enemy territory.

 

That would be so slow it'd feel unnatural. The mount is already pretty slow for mount standards. It actually makes the game more enjoyable by spending less time walking between objectives and more on fights.

 

> - Reduce the damage of the mount dealt to the gates to half its actual value. Double the number of resources needed for a hit.

 

I'd rather just disable the chain pull skill when hit with a siege disabler, for the same duration as it disables siege. They don't really do that much damage. Any less and it be way too much of a waste of supply. 3 warclaws with 20 supply each do about 30% of a T1 gate's health of damage. 60 supply would be better spent on actual siege.

 

> - Reduce the health of the mount to 1000 - 1500 HP (just enough to resist one attack from a NPC)

 

That would be way too little HP. At most it could go down to 12K.

 

> - Dismounting a player results in instant death of the dismounted player (or at least a downed state)

 

That would be ridiculous even if it was preventable with a mastery like the Siege Golem Mastery \#5 to survive the dismount. Siege golems have huge health pools, warclaws have very little health, their evades do not compensate for that.

 

> - Reduce the numbers of invulnerable dodges to zero if you have no mastery. Increase it to 1 if you have mastery for mount.

Warclaws should definitely have the Exhaustion effect from Daredevil's Dash so they can't recharge endurance while they dodge and do 4 dodges in a row instead 3, but they should not lose their evades.

Dodges are not invulnerable. They are affected by 'ward' style skills like static shock and ring of warding.

There should definitely be way more Ward style skills that counter evades, too, not just to counter warclaws, but to counter other nasty habits that are just unfun repetitive gameplay like those silly daredevils spamming Vault over and over ad nauseam. For example:

 

* Warrior Stomp could leave behind a ring of rocks as a ward for 3s after the stomp, as the Seismic Leap from Rampage. Or they could get a new elite Shout to complete the skill set that creates a ward for a few seconds and pull enemies towards the warrior if they try to leave, like "You Can't Escape Me!".

* Revenant Unyielding Anguish or Protective Solace could act as wards while they last when a certain trait has been selected.

* Engineer net turret, which is kind of 'meh' could create a static field for a few seconds after being placed. Or one of the skills in the bomb kit could create a warding ring.

* Ranger Muddy Terrain, Cold Snap from Ice spirit or Quicksand from Stone Spirit could act as a ward that knocks down. So trying to teleport or evade though it would knock you down for a few seconds.

* For thief, the Tripwire trap could act as a ward both when triggering and a few seconds after being activated.

 

Then warclaws could get a defiance bar, so trying to pass through several stacked wards would dismount them even while evading.

 

> - Disable the possibility to contest/capture objectives while mounted.

 

Nothing against that. As reasonable as not being able to get stealth while mounted. I've been in a few boring sitiations with two players mounted running in circles in a capture points because none were willing to leave the mount.

 

> - Keep the finisher attack against downed players but reduce the damage of the engage attack against non downed targets to zero.

 

That won't do. But it could certainly be limited. For example, a player who has been hit by an engage once would be immune to any more damage from engage skills from any other players for the next 10-30s, only being affected by the finishing effect. That way people would use engages to actually engage, not to stack them and gank.

 

[The Ventari Ele.5812]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> Expansions aren't pay to win. Get out.

 

Show me an expansion to GW2, a real expansion. Not the DLC's they released and called them expansions.

HoT and PoF together barely make what most would call an expansion in other MMO's

 

 

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> P2W assumes you pay for something and then you win.

> If you where kitten at playing WvW before PoF you will still be kitten at playing WvW after PoF.

> By your logic every subscription game is p2w as well.

 

Show me the PvE that isnt terrible.

The LS is a farce, you can complete it within a couple hours even when playing casually and slow!

The DLC's brought in new traits, only available if you bought the DLC.

They were overpowered, meaning if you didnt buy them you are at a disadvantage. Be you a good WvW player or a bad one!

 

 

[Aridon.8362]

8 hours is a long time? hmmmm....

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Aridon.8362" said:

> 8 hours is a long time? hmmmm....

 

I think he could nto stand playing more w8 mount, due how painfull it was XD

[Thefarside.2178]

Doing this now after a long GW2 break. It is horrendous but really only maintaining participation while constantly being picked off by groups for being "back of the pack". I have some friends I convinced to try GW2 for the first time primarily because they are interested in WvW. This drove them right away. I do think, for new players that love wvw concept, this will be a giant barrier to entry.

[Omaris Mortuus Est.2738]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"The Ventari Ele.5812" said:

> > GW2 isnt a p2w game

> > Buy Path of Fire to stay competitive in WvW!

> P2W assumes you pay for something and then you win.

>

> If you where kitten at playing WvW before PoF you will still be kitten at playing WvW after PoF.

>

> By your logic every subscription game is p2w as well.

 

If the DLCs, aka so-called "expansions" were not P2W, then they would have minimal impact on PvP and WvW

Any new skills and specialisations would be properly balanced so that core game players can still compete with the players who purchase the DLCs

 

GW2 does not do this!

Specialisation give the players who purchase the DLCs skills and specialisations which overpower them against core players

PoF>HoT>Core

In order to remain competitive, one is forced to purchase the DLCs.

As such GW2 is P2W

[Dante.1508]

Yes very much so op, Its why i stopped doing WvW after i returned.. Adding mounts behind a grind was a massive mistake.. plus the inane run to get to the zerg over and over is terrible now.

 

How to turn a disliked game mode into something now hated..

> @"Aridon.8362" said:

> 8 hours is a long time? hmmmm....

Took me 6 hours just to get to the first bar of the 20k ...

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > @"The Ventari Ele.5812" said:

> > GW2 isnt a p2w game

> > Buy Path of Fire to stay competitive in WvW!

>

> Expansions aren't pay to win. Get out.

They are after mounts, e-specs and masteries were added...

[Sovereign.1093]

> @"L A T I O N.8923" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > > They did mention of possibly considering rentals, but up till now they have not updated any news on this. If they choose not to, that will be sad indeed. They could even do one for gliders, just give both a really ugly default skin.

> >

> > The "sad" truth of WvW is that you need PoF to truly compete anyway. Its quite obvious that the mount is just another incentive to buy the game. And honestly... I think that is fine. GW f2p is just a taste of the game and HoT is very, very old now. Not that its impossible to play it without either, but you do get pigeonholed in your choices.

> >

> > Personally I would prefer it if instead of renting mounts, they added multi-seat mounts. Warclaw should be able to take 1 passenger.

>

> Like An asura taking a charr in his backpack?

>

> That would be so funny

 

isnt there a char backpiece? mmm would love that skin, a wvw commander backpiece skin.

 

also

 

@"ArenaNet Team.4819" any updates on the wvw commander tonic <3 <3

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Omaris Mortuus Est.2738" said:

> GW2 does not do this!

> Specialisation give the players who purchase the DLCs skills and specialisations which overpower them against core players

> PoF>HoT>Core

> In order to remain competitive, one is forced to purchase the DLCs.

> As such GW2 is P2W

... yet we see some players on core builds absolutely dominate pof and hot builds. Funny that.

 

[Doug.4930]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Omaris Mortuus Est.2738" said:

> > GW2 does not do this!

> > Specialisation give the players who purchase the DLCs skills and specialisations which overpower them against core players

> > PoF>HoT>Core

> > In order to remain competitive, one is forced to purchase the DLCs.

> > As such GW2 is P2W

> ... yet we see some players on core builds absolutely dominate pof and hot builds. Funny that.

>

 

Just because Jason bourne can beat a guy with a knife using a towel doesn't mean that towels are better weapons than knives.