Server without level scaling

[FrizzFreston.5290]

> @"GordonFreeman.6392" said:

> I know alot of people like level scaling, but i hate it. Theres enough 80+ content to keep you busy. Plus whats the point of keeping hero points and levels seperate? levels are obviously pointless now since the only reason both levels and hero points are for skills now. I hate going back to Queensdale and dying to something i shouldn't even be damaged by :(. I know there are more people like me that feel the same way that don't like the level scaling, so I was wondering if a non level scaling server could be made at least. I'd switch to wow but i don't want to do the monthly subscription thing. There are so many group events i cant solo at lvl 80 and theres not enough ppl to do them with... its annoying.

 

The level scaling has been a selling point and key feature in GW2. GW2 has been, upto now, about keeping all content as relevant as possible. (Which obviously will never be perfect and sometimes doesnt quite work at all).

 

To ask for no level scaling in GW2, is to ask for a different game, really.

 

Personally I find the notion that any low lvl, but armed, NPC should NOT be able to damage a high level character quite ridiculous. If its a sword, in probable incapable hands, its still a sword, and its still sharp and should be able to hurt you, were you not careful enough.

 

Also, some enemies are added at a later date, and you could probably count them as equally downscaled level 80s, which just show as lvl 10 or whatever, like the white mantle bandit bosses in low level zones. If there was no scaling, those most definitely would be high level.

 

At which point you could complain about, Why is there high level content in starter zones, where i happily point you back to my first point. To keep zones relevant.

 

[Kanok.3027]

If they were to do go the traditional route and put in a server with no scaling, I can see it now. Lv80's would go to starter areas and wipe out all the champs and bosses with little effort and the newbies would be left with nothing for loot. You have no idea how many players would gladly grief the lower levels just for a laugh. Imagine Vic the Iron or Zirh the Venomous being killed in a few hits by a fully ascended geared Lv80 with a meta build. Few newbies, if any, would be able to get in a single hit before it dies and they'd get no loot while the higher level laughs and no one gets anything. Is that fair?

 

Or, with mounts, imagine the amount of AoEing of event mobs that would happen. They would die instantly and barely any new players would be able to do the events. Starter areas would be ghost towns and no new players would come in. Now, how does this differ from other MMO's? The fact that the loot on these bosses is relevant to any level toon, so griefing would only go to an all time high. Level scaling allows me to take my 80's with better gear, skills and traits out to those areas and challenge myself to solo champs and elites for good loot. Newbies can jump in and help out, and/or die, and benefit from it as well. World bosses. Imagine if you could do the same to a world boss and make it pointless for newbies to get any loot from them. That would kill the game. Send that content to high level areas? Why deny the newbies that content? Doesn't seem fair that only the Lv80's can do anything even remotely fun in a game where a good challenge is encouraged.

 

My opinion, like many others, is no. They should not spend the resources to do this. Leveling scaling is a great thing and is one of the greatest things I've played with ever. I hope they never take it away and that other games follow this model. It will only benefit them.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Kanok.3027" said:

> . Lv80's would go to starter areas and wipe out all the champs and bosses with little effort and the newbies would be left with nothing for loot.

 

This.

 

 

Even if they weren't actually trying to grief these non-downscaled 80s would ruin the experience for characters at the appropriate level.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"Kanok.3027" said:

> > . Lv80's would go to starter areas and wipe out all the champs and bosses with little effort and the newbies would be left with nothing for loot.

>

> This.

>

>

> Even if they weren't actually trying to grief these non-downscaled 80s would ruin the experience for characters at the appropriate level.

 

Would be no other point for them to go there but to grief out leveled mobs would ofcourse give no loot like in other games right.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Why would any non-high level characters even go to that 'special' server. It would only be inhabited by L80s (or near L80).

So, let ArenaNet create that server for those L80 seeking no challenge...just remove all loot, as well. =)

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"Kanok.3027" said:

> > . Lv80's would go to starter areas and wipe out all the champs and bosses with little effort and the newbies would be left with nothing for loot.

>

> This.

>

>

> Even if they weren't actually trying to grief these non-downscaled 80s would ruin the experience for characters at the appropriate level.

... not to mention its already in effect. Well, not for champs - they still take a little while to kill - but regular event spawn mobs die before they even visibly spawn. Hell, it happens in 80 zones too with enough players.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > @"Kanok.3027" said:

> > > . Lv80's would go to starter areas and wipe out all the champs and bosses with little effort and the newbies would be left with nothing for loot.

> >

> > This.

> >

> >

> > Even if they weren't actually trying to grief these non-downscaled 80s would ruin the experience for characters at the appropriate level.

> ... not to mention its already in effect. Well, not for champs - they still take a little while to kill - but regular event spawn mobs die before they even visibly spawn. Hell, it happens in 80 zones too with enough players.

 

Exactly. Daily events in low level zones can already be difficult for new characters.

[ROMANG.1903]

> @"GordonFreeman.6392" said:

> I know alot of people like level scaling, but i hate it. Theres enough 80+ content to keep you busy. Plus whats the point of keeping hero points and levels seperate? levels are obviously pointless now since the only reason both levels and hero points are for skills now. I hate going back to Queensdale and dying to something i shouldn't even be damaged by :(. I know there are more people like me that feel the same way that don't like the level scaling, so I was wondering if a non level scaling server could be made at least. I'd switch to wow but i don't want to do the monthly subscription thing. There are so many group events i cant solo at lvl 80 and theres not enough ppl to do them with... its annoying.

 

The one reason I'm not playing WoW is because there is no level scaling, and you'd like to remove it in GW2?

Level scaling makes it so that every place feels realistic. If it wasn't there the events would be super easy, low level players wouldn't get to enjoy them because high level players farming for materials would obliterate everything. I'm not okay with making a separate server for it either, it would spread thin the playerbase. While WoW seems to have a high enough population to attempt this sort of things, I'm not so sure for GW2. And if you make it so that we can change server at will? Well people will just go in the non-scaling server to farm, and then move back to the scaled server to do everything else. Nothing interesting there.

 

And honnestly, lvl 80 equipment already gives you a hell of an advantage even with level scaling... Not to mention the game still keeps you 1 level above that of the area.

[ROMANG.1903]

> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > @"GordonFreeman.6392" said:

> > I know alot of people like level scaling, but i hate it. Theres enough 80+ content to keep you busy. Plus whats the point of keeping hero points and levels seperate? levels are obviously pointless now since the only reason both levels and hero points are for skills now. I hate going back to Queensdale and dying to something i shouldn't even be damaged by :(. I know there are more people like me that feel the same way that don't like the level scaling, so I was wondering if a non level scaling server could be made at least. I'd switch to wow but i don't want to do the monthly subscription thing. There are so many group events i cant solo at lvl 80 and theres not enough ppl to do them with... its annoying.

>

> Won’t do you any good to go to WoW. They have their version of level scaling they’re putting in, [zone scaling](https://wow.gamepedia.com/Zone_scaling). I suppose they feel it’s a good idea for people not to be able to hulk smash low level zones but instead still have a challenge possible wherever they go.

 

Unfortunately when you're lvl 120 and go in a low-level area you still obliterate everything, because each area only scales up to the level it was originally supposed to bring you to. For example, starter zone don't scale past lvl 60. Northrend and Outland scale up to 80, Cataclysm and MoP go up to 90. No area ever scales up to the current max lvl 120, except that of the current expansion. I'll never consider going back to WoW unless they make a world scaling where **everything** scales up to my level. They are stupid: They have such a large world with so many adventures to live... But only those of the very last patch are relevant and challenging.

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"GordonFreeman.6392" said:

> > Level scaling to the current extent hasn't been around since day 1.

> In fact, it was in the game from Day 1.

 

or day (some negative number) depending on where you put Day 0 since it has been in the game since before the game got released

[keenedge.9675]

The ONLY reason a level 80 should die in Queensdale is LACK of ATTENTION by the player. (and WB)

or perhaps bad gear choices that cause low resistance if you go back to a low-level map, IE; wearing lvl 68 gear on a level 80 while on a level 20 map.

 

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> Why would any non-high level characters even go to that 'special' server. It would only be inhabited by L80s (or near L80).

> So, let ArenaNet create that server for those L80 seeking no challenge...just remove all loot, as well. =)

Isn't that known as WvW ?

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

Another memory, from launch

 

Me and two others started in Queensland and eventually found the portal to Kessex Hills. Let’s go through, we said. We’ll look around, get some more levels!

So we go through and see a deer in front of us. 3 of us, one deer. We can kill it. What could possibly go wrong?

 

Well, apparently a lot. A minute later, one dead person, two people fleeing for their lives, one very angry deer.

 

I guess we weren’t near as good as we thought we were. We went back into Queensdale.

 

Moral of this story: if you’re dying from low level mobs then maybe you’re not quite ready for prime time. We went back to Kessex later after we got better, and we made sure to kill that deer. We didn’t ask for the game to make changes to accommodate us.

[Knighthonor.4061]

Level scaling is to make all zones instead of less max level zones useful and playful as a max level when leveling stop.

 

Levels themself is a useless grandfathered feature from old MMOs.

[starhunter.6015]

SO OP said Bandits are who killed him in Queensdale, can only guess he tried to Solo the Bounties and got owned for not paying attention to them.

[joneirikb.7506]

Just to point out to everyone responding to this thread, that the OP doesn't ask to change the entire game to remove scaling, he is asking for a way to play that way separated from others if he must (He mentions making a own server for that). While some have responded to and pointed out the problems with this. Most looks like they think he wants to flat out remove scaling from the game, and that's derailing the discussion (or what could have been).

 

---

 

> @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> Levels themself is a useless grandfathered feature from old MMOs.

 

+1 So much, so very much.

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

> @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> Just to point out to everyone responding to this thread, that the OP doesn't ask to change the entire game to remove scaling, he is asking for a way to play that way separated from others if he must (He mentions making a own server for that). While some have responded to and pointed out the problems with this. Most looks like they think he wants to flat out remove scaling from the game, and that's derailing the discussion (or what could have been).

 

It's not derailing it. The two ways a situation like this can go about is

 

A- Make a new server

B- Outright remove level scaling

 

Both of which can have terrible consequences to the game.

[VDAC.2137]

> @"GordonFreeman.6392" said:

>

> Why can't i one shot them though? if don't do anything they still shouldn't be able to damage me, I can die if i have 5 moa's agrroed on me and don't do anything. Should be invulnerable in that situation if I am 80. I don't want to have tp try to fight lvl 20 bandits in kessex they should just die from my auto attack.

 

Seriously? What would be the point of that??? You just want to feel omnipotent or something? Sounds boring to me.

 

Maybe you should find an area with lots of harmless white-labeled creatures that you can one-shot... :unamused:

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"GordonFreeman.6392" said:

> > @"Yargesh.4965" said:

> > You still have not clarified how it is possible for a lvl 80 character to die from mobs in queensdale. Most champs could be solo'd before the expansions, now with new skills and builds it can't be harder. If you are dying on low level maps due to downscaling I have to guess you are also dying on lvl 80 maps.

>

> Why can't i one shot them though?

That's a good question, because I _can_ pretty much oneshot most of the mobs in starting areas.

 

> if don't do anything they still shouldn't be able to damage me, I can die if i have 5 moa's agrroed on me and don't do anything. Should be invulnerable in that situation if I am 80. I don't want to have tp try to fight lvl 20 bandits in kessex they should just die from my auto attack.

...they do die to your autoattack. They die in like 2-3 hits at most. Unless you mean the bandit champ events, in which case they are meant to be there for the level 80 players - if level scaling was disabled, they would be max level and still kill you.

 

Notice also, that if you could out level them, it would still be pointless, because then sure as kittens the game would not reward you from visiting that area/killing that mob. Even map completion rewards would then (by necessity) have to be something completely worthless for a level 80.

 

 

[Steve The Cynic.3217]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> Why would any non-high level characters even go to that 'special' server. It would only be inhabited by L80s (or near L80).

> So, let ArenaNet create that server for those L80 seeking no challenge...just remove all loot, as well. =)

 

Allods Online did exactly that. If you were in a lowbie zone on a non-lowbie character, you got *no* loot (unless the loot was for a quest in which case you got *only* the quest loot) if you were high enough level to get no XP. (In some cross-faction PvP-enabled areas, notably the infamous Asee-Teph, highbies went there in fear of their lives because characters of the "proper" level could buy an item that let them one-shot enemy-faction highbies.)

 

> @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> Levels themself is a useless grandfathered feature from old MMOs.

 

No. Levels are a useless grandfathered feature from pen-and-paper D&D in 1976.

[EmmetOtter.8542]

> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> Won’t do you any good to go to WoW. They have their version of level scaling they’re putting in, [zone scaling](https://wow.gamepedia.com/Zone_scaling). I suppose they feel it’s a good idea for people not to be able to hulk smash low level zones but instead still have a challenge possible wherever they go.

That's not how wow's level scaling works at all.

Creatures will only scale up to the max level of the zone. Most zone level ranges are 1-20, 21-60, 60-80, 80-90,90-100,100-110,110-120

As you're leveling up in a zone, so do the creature and rewards, but they don't exceed the max for the zone.

Once you have a 11+ level difference between creature and character, the critter does less damage to you and you do more damage

A 120 max level toon can solo and 1-shot anything below level 100.

[FyzE.3472]

I actually like the fact that I can level 1-80 on one location. Getting gear for my CURRENT level is also nice when I'm in a below 80 map. Not sure what's so bad about that. If you want to one-shot stuff, there are rabbits and flies in every map. You also don't get any drop from them...

[coso.9173]

i don't really get why people want/need to feel all powerful and oneshot anything in a videogame, where's the fun in that? I like level scaling because I know that i could still get an interesting fight with a champ in queensdale or something.

it's the same in ESO where every enemy is scaled to your level. it's a lot more fun than to run around leaving a trail of bodies.

[EmmetOtter.8542]

Personally, gw2's style of level scaling turned me off the game the first time I played it back in 2013. I struggled my way to level 40, needed to pass through a 1-15 area to get somewhere else and got my butt handed to me time and again. It made me feel like I had made zero progress on my character.

 

There was a lot I didn't like about wow, but one thing I did like was it's version of level scaling. Besides a power difference that people have noted, there's also an aggro-range difference: a max level character can practically stand next to a low level beastie and the beastie won't attack. It gives you the freedom to do what you need to do unmolested and without wasting your playing time.

 

That aggro-range improvement is something I would rather have in gw2 over the power buff.

 

I have come back to gw2 and I'm keeping an open mind about everything. I'm hoping that I'll eventually enjoy everything

[Ayrilana.1396]

The level scaling keeps sub-80 content relevant to level 80 players as well as for those that are above the designated level for the map/area.

[Rattengeist.8165]

The only thing that keeps me to actually spend quality time in core tyria is the fact that the level scaling exists. If I would one shot everything at lvl 80 I wouldn't even bother to go anywhere outside of lvl 80 maps. Imagine trying to do heart vendor quests or an event daily without level scaling - impossible. Most core tyria mobs loose half of their health when you dismount on them, isn't that enough? Or when there is a daily where you need to participate in 4 events on a core tyria map and everyone just bursts down anything event related so you sometimes barely get two hits yourself, isn't that ALSO enough? The open world in core tyria is easy enough, we really don't need anet to hold our hand even more while travelling. If you do the mistake to run into a group of 10 mobs that all burst you down you shouldn't be rewarded by being able to oneshot them with one AOE field. You also shouldn't be rewarded to be able to complete any event on your own because you oneshot waves of mobs that come at you. Where is the challenge or fun in that?

 

Play the game, figure out the best build and stat option for you and learn from your mistakes. It's not an issue with the game or the level scaling. If you feel like you die too often then you are doing something wrong or the class you play is simply not suitable for you. When I was frustrated with my favorite class I just build full marauder gear. Perfect for roaming the open world and exploring everything solo like PoF or HoT content. Of course I still die but only if I bite more off then I can chew or don't pay attention.