The Negativity Snowball

[Alyster.9470]

Hey everyone,

As we all know things are not the way some people like (including me) in the current state of the game and its unknown direction. Its starting to get really sad and annoying...

Whatever happens with the game (skyscale, Icebrood Saga announcement, templates, release cadence, not having raids/fractals, gen3 legendaries etc.), the return is mostly negative feedback, anger and disappointment, this has been going for quite a LONG time and I think ANET has to do something at this point rather than staying silent. I know that its impossible to make everyone happy but all this negativity has become a large snowball and it seems like some people are really fed up to the point which will make them quit or they quit already.

 

So whats the issue? As always its communication...

People expect things, but they never know if their expectations will come the way that they like or not come at all. Time passes, people keep expecting and posting discussions with their requests, feedback and opinions but they never get an answer, they start to feel neglected or denied by ANET because 10-15 people like him have opened discussions for EXAMPLE: "will we get new fractals?" but they never got an answer or they never know if their feedback was actually considered. ANET does not have to bring a new fractal or consider each feedback, its their decision BUT, if more and more people keep asking for "that" specific thing and STILL never get any response over months, they will start to lose motivation, hope and be negative. That is because your next release did not come up to their expectations OR you hype things unnecessarily and give half the amount of what was being said OR cannot keep promises and refuse to explain what they actually are and what is being done for it(as expansion level features), and this is where you need to give people some answers.

 

The silent policy is not working and its just making it worse and worse. Saying "Its on the table" is not enough for most of us and to me its sound like "yeah, whatever". I know this post will not make ANET to start communicating, but seeing how our community has changed this year with all the negativity around, I believe it is time for change...

 

Cheers.

[ugrakarma.9416]

sry but u guys are locked into a catch22,

if just more raids/fractals/legendaries works no one will be discussing the "state of the game".

 

i hope Anet realized that pvp is the real end game that really works.... overinvesting in instanced content for end game for speedrunners elitists is proved to be a failure at this point. 1~2 fractals per "season" is more than enough, 1 raid per season is more than enough.

[Dadnir.5038]

While not having new bones to chew in PvE may seem to be responsible for a part of the negativity, it's important to point that the unrest mostly come from balances choices that hurt the quality of life instead of balancing things. When your quality of life drop you become grumpy, it's totally natural, nobody like that.

 

On the topic of communication, they've recently started to communicate, however, this communication tell us that they intend to hit a bit more our quality of life instead of trying to truly resolve real issues and that they aren't especially open to accept that it's not really well received by the community.

 

I'm stressing it, but there is one thing that should never be removed from a player and it's "quality of life". Over the year they've hurted warrior, ranger, chronomancer, scourge and daredevil quality of life without really achieving the objectives sets for these changes. It's 100% natural that player ain't satisfied. They intend to remove the fall damage reduction traits which will hurt the quality of life of some players in both PvE and WvW, do you expect people to take this with a smile?

[FrigginPaco.4178]

> @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> sry but u guys are locked into a catch22,

> if just more raids/fractals/legendaries works no one will be discussing the "state of the game".

>

> i hope Anet realized that pvp is the real end game that really works.... overinvesting in instanced content for end game for speedrunners elitists is proved to be a failure at this point. 1~2 fractals per "season" is more than enough, 1 raid per season is more than enough.

 

In terms of a general statement on combat, yes I agree, few things are more seat-of-your-pants gaming than fighting another player, whether that's PvP or WvW.

 

I do feel like the stance on the previous points about instanced combat scenarios are a bit overperceived, but still valid.

 

As for legendaries, they do generate hype when they strike a chord with the right players, however... it's true that by the end of the day, they are simply eye candy. Whether or not they should be is an entirely different discussion which I do not want to pursue here.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

> @"Alyster.9470" said:

> Hey everyone,

> As we all know things are not the way some people like (including me) in the current state of the game and its unknown direction. Its starting to get really sad and annoying...

> Whatever happens with the game (skyscale, Icebrood Saga announcement, templates, release cadence, not having raids/fractals, gen3 legendaries etc.), the return is mostly negative feedback, anger and disappointment, this has been going for quite a LONG time and I think ANET has to do something at this point rather than staying silent. I know that its impossible to make everyone happy but all this negativity has become a large snowball and it seems like some people are really fed up to the point which will make them quit or they quit already.

>

> So whats the issue? As always its communication...

> People expect things, but they never know if their expectations will come the way that they like or not come at all. Time passes, people keep expecting and posting discussions with their requests, feedback and opinions but they never get an answer, they start to feel neglected or denied by ANET because 10-15 people like him have opened discussions for EXAMPLE: "will we get new fractals?" but they never got an answer or they never know if their feedback was actually considered. ANET does not have to bring a new fractal or consider each feedback, its their decision BUT, if more and more people keep asking for "that" specific thing and STILL never get any response over months, they will start to lose motivation, hope and be negative. That is because your next release did not come up to their expectations OR you hype things unnecessarily and give half the amount of what was being said OR cannot keep promises and refuse to explain what they actually are and what is being done for it(as expansion level features), and this is where you need to give people some answers.

>

> The silent policy is not working and its just making it worse and worse. Saying "Its on the table" is not enough for most of us and to me its sound like "yeah, whatever". I know this post will not make ANET to start communicating, but seeing how our community has changed this year with all the negativity around, I believe it is time for change...

>

> Cheers.

 

I'm gonna try my best to be as concise as possible here regarding the communication/lack thereof:

 

Nobody knows why they have the tendency to not outreach to players as much as we'd like. However, recent events point to *the beginnings* of a trend where they will do more of them. My only concern is that this is a "sprint" of communication, and not the beginning to a leisurely jog/walk of constant coms where we can see progress/back-and-forthing w/the community over time. As an example, personally, I enjoyed the old balance posts where they had a spiel about why they did certain changes (yes they've done those recently too), but I hope to see more, and more frequently with perhaps more depth.

[kharmin.7683]

As long as the investors are content with Anet, there is no compelling reason to change the status quo.

[Thorstienn.1642]

The issue of "communication" from game developers comes up a lot, in every MMO I've played.

It comes down to 2 things in my opinion.

 

1. (The situation that wont happen); game developers tell the community what they are/arent focusing on. This just would be a mistake.

What would they say: "we are no longer doing raids as the percentage of players doing that content is so small" BAM! Angry posts, players quit. "We are only focusing on story content" BAM! Even more angry posts, even more players quit.

 

2. (The situation that SHOULD happen but never does); what is the developers mission statement of the game; is it a "casual friendly" game, is it a "hardcore friendly" game, is it a "competitive" game, is it an "everything" game (biggest mistake game companies do)? Is there a hard/soft trinity, is there "only 1" way to play a class? Is it a grind game or time friendly game, skill game or build game? Etc, etc.

 

I think people focus too much on option 1, frankly because they want the devs to GIVE them the reason to quit, as opposed to option 2 where you can know what the game is aining to achieve and decide if it's what you want to play.

 

Hopefully that made some semblance of sense.

 

 

 

 

[Rauderi.8706]

> @"Thorstienn.1642" said:

> because they want the devs to GIVE them the reason to quit

 

Oh mercy but this is so true of the kittenheels on reddit, at least. Even after they claim to have uninstalled, they haunt and harass the game's forum/sub.

 

I had it as a signature quote I nicked from someone else on the old forums, but there probably really *is* a well of therapy money waiting for getting people to leave a game they no longer play.

[Goettel.4389]

I tend to assume about 10% of any player base is vocal on forums, Reddit etc. - and not even all of them are negative nancies.

Which means things are rarely as bleak as painted, most are too busy just playing (and so presumably enjoying) the game.

[zealex.9410]

Its not negativity the community is fine, being positivie is on the table.

[mercury ranique.2170]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> As long as the investors are content with Anet, there is no compelling reason to change the status quo.

 

Actually, of is a bit more then this. The investors where not content (at least with the way things went at arenanet). They had reasons to interfere (see the massive layoffs earlier this year and the announcements about staffchanges, management changes and what choices are made concerning content). The main investor has been pulling strings with this as a result

 

And it makes sense. Endgame content is not a profitmaker. People do not come to GW2 for PvP, WvW, fractals or Raids. They come here for open world PvE. That's what sells the game to new players.

Also, the players interested in laid back casual content are those who are typical more interested in cosmetic items. So it makes sense to invest there and keep creating new content to give an impression that GW2 stays fun for a long time so new people start with investing.

[Brycar.2651]

I love the game and spend real money on it every month. I’m sure I will buy the new mount. The current story is great. So happy to see Braham mature and to have more Norn lore. Also my guild mates make it fun.

[Tyncale.1629]

I think the current LW episode sucks and the Combat mastery system is a dud as far as I am concerned, however I loved the Skyscale: both the Quest to get it and the Mount itself. Really top notch content that prolongs the game for me and adds an extra layer. I am actually doing the Skyscale Quest on two of my Alt accounts now. My Main account has mostly Collection achievements left (like a zillion weapons, which means grind for the same mats over and over) so being able to do the Skyscale collections is a breath of fresh air.

[Zaklex.6308]

> @"Alyster.9470" said:

> Hey everyone,

> As we all know things are not the way some people like (including me) in the current state of the game and its unknown direction. Its starting to get really sad and annoying...

> Whatever happens with the game (skyscale, Icebrood Saga announcement, templates, release cadence, not having raids/fractals, gen3 legendaries etc.), the return is mostly negative feedback, anger and disappointment, this has been going for quite a LONG time and I think ANET has to do something at this point rather than staying silent. I know that its impossible to make everyone happy but all this negativity has become a large snowball and it seems like some people are really fed up to the point which will make them quit or they quit already.

>

> So whats the issue? As always its communication...

> People expect things, but they never know if their expectations will come the way that they like or not come at all. Time passes, people keep expecting and posting discussions with their requests, feedback and opinions but they never get an answer, they start to feel neglected or denied by ANET because 10-15 people like him have opened discussions for EXAMPLE: "will we get new fractals?" but they never got an answer or they never know if their feedback was actually considered. ANET does not have to bring a new fractal or consider each feedback, its their decision BUT, if more and more people keep asking for "that" specific thing and STILL never get any response over months, they will start to lose motivation, hope and be negative. That is because your next release did not come up to their expectations OR you hype things unnecessarily and give half the amount of what was being said OR cannot keep promises and refuse to explain what they actually are and what is being done for it(as expansion level features), and this is where you need to give people some answers.

>

> The silent policy is not working and its just making it worse and worse. Saying "Its on the table" is not enough for most of us and to me its sound like "yeah, whatever". I know this post will not make ANET to start communicating, but seeing how our community has changed this year with all the negativity around, I believe it is time for change...

>

> Cheers.

 

I'm going to guess that you haven't paid attention to any announcements made since May of 2019, if you have(and that doesn't include anything on Twitter or Facebook) then you would know the answers to some of those questions: they already gave their answers about Fractals and Raids,, they're coming, but in staggered releases, I'm not going to find it for you. it's out there on the web somewhere.

[Acheron.4731]

We wanted to say that communicating with the playerbase is 'not off the table' just 'not being discussed right now'

Thanks

 

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"Alyster.9470" said:

> Hey everyone,

> As we all know things are not the way some people like (including me) in the current state of the game and its unknown direction. Its starting to get really sad and annoying...

> Whatever happens with the game (skyscale, Icebrood Saga announcement, templates, release cadence, not having raids/fractals, gen3 legendaries etc.), the return is mostly negative feedback, anger and disappointment, this has been going for quite a LONG time and I think ANET has to do something at this point rather than staying silent. I know that its impossible to make everyone happy but all this negativity has become a large snowball and it seems like some people are really fed up to the point which will make them quit or they quit already.

>

> So whats the issue? As always its communication...

> People expect things, but they never know if their expectations will come the way that they like or not come at all. Time passes, people keep expecting and posting discussions with their requests, feedback and opinions but they never get an answer, they start to feel neglected or denied by ANET because 10-15 people like him have opened discussions for EXAMPLE: "will we get new fractals?" but they never got an answer or they never know if their feedback was actually considered. ANET does not have to bring a new fractal or consider each feedback, its their decision BUT, if more and more people keep asking for "that" specific thing and STILL never get any response over months, they will start to lose motivation, hope and be negative. That is because your next release did not come up to their expectations OR you hype things unnecessarily and give half the amount of what was being said OR cannot keep promises and refuse to explain what they actually are and what is being done for it(as expansion level features), and this is where you need to give people some answers.

>

> The silent policy is not working and its just making it worse and worse. Saying "Its on the table" is not enough for most of us and to me its sound like "yeah, whatever". I know this post will not make ANET to start communicating, but seeing how our community has changed this year with all the negativity around, I believe it is time for change...

>

> Cheers.

 

"Everything is on the table" Is what we will get, thats all we've ever gotten.

 

Im pretty sure from here on we won't get anything outside of the living world episode, and strikes. Expecting anything more at this stage of the game is simply hopeful ignorance because its very clear to me and a lot of others that they only wish to make this content. Raids, WvW, PvP, Fractals even E-specs, classes, Races, mounts , legendary gen 3 are all things we will not see. It's done. And the damage is irreparable unless they decided its something worth putting resources into, but clearly they deem it as meaningless and "Not worth the effort".

 

This is telling because for years people stated "Id rather then dedicate resources elsewhere" and now they are, to the modes they consider the most fruitful. And this is and will be guild wars from here on out. Lower your expectations and give up hope; Let them do as they do and play the game as the intend for you to play which is if you have the goals you wanted to meet met... come back every two or so months. I've become so casual with my time now because its like I just don't care enough anymore, I loved the theme and story and even the map of the new episode. But im almost done with the collections and all the acheivo's and then I won't be back more than likely till the next release which is what is intended.

 

Faith, belief and hope are all things that take energy... more energy than Im allowing myself to spend or dedicate to a game and company who clearly doesn't care or wish to give me as the customer what I desire or ask for. (Of which im willing to pay for.)

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> As long as the investors are content with Anet, there is no compelling reason to change the status quo.

 

Pretty much this. I have no doubt the actual developers know they could be doing better, and likely wish they could be given more resources to do so, but the consistent theme behind the tragedy of this game is terrible management, and that's a top down issue.

[Acheron.4731]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > As long as the investors are content with Anet, there is no compelling reason to change the status quo.

>

> Pretty much this. I have no doubt the actual developers know they could be doing better, and likely wish they could be given more resources to do so, but the consistent theme behind the tragedy of this game is terrible management, and that's a top down issue.

 

Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

Something is handicapping the flow of this game considerably.

There is no way this is a 'all hands on deck' type of game development anymore. if so, yikessss.

[Alyster.9470]

@"Zaklex.6308" They just said in an interview that we will not get any raids and fractals in the following episodes. google the interview there is also a reddit thread stating this.

[Vinceman.4572]

> "Everything is on the table" Is what we will get, thats all we've ever gotten.

>

> Im pretty sure from here on we won't get anything outside of the living world episode, and strikes. Expecting anything more at this stage of the game is simply hopeful ignorance because its very clear to me and a lot of others that they only wish to make this content. Raids, WvW, PvP, Fractals even E-specs, classes, Races, mounts , legendary gen 3 are all things we will not see. It's done. And the damage is irreparable unless they decided its something worth putting resources into, but clearly they deem it as meaningless and "Not worth the effort".

>

> This is telling because for years people stated "Id rather then dedicate resources elsewhere" and now they are, to the modes they consider the most fruitful. And this is and will be guild wars from here on out. Lower your expectations and give up hope; Let them do as they do and play the game as the intend for you to play which is if you have the goals you wanted to meet met... come back every two or so months. I've become so casual with my time now because its like I just don't care enough anymore, I loved the theme and story and even the map of the new episode. But im almost done with the collections and all the acheivo's and then I won't be back more than likely till the next release which is what is intended.

>

> Faith, belief and hope are all things that take energy... more energy than Im allowing myself to spend or dedicate to a game and company who clearly doesn't care or wish to give me as the customer what I desire or ask for. (Of which im willing to pay for.)

 

You know what? I think you're absolutely right. We're done.

One of your comments in a different thread wasn't a real eye-opener for me but let's say a little bit more than the tip of the iceberg to finally accept that this game won't deliver the content I like to play and therefore I can make my peace with it. It's totally fine and healthy. I will show up here and there, maybe play for some days or not and taste the story content when it arrives and I'm in the mood for it.

Time to play some other games and shrink my pile of shame. It's about damn time.

[Solitude.2097]

> @"Alyster.9470" said:

> Hey everyone,

> As we all know things are not the way some people like (including me) in the current state of the game and its unknown direction. Its starting to get really sad and annoying...

> Whatever happens with the game (skyscale, Icebrood Saga announcement, templates, release cadence, not having raids/fractals, gen3 legendaries etc.), the return is mostly negative feedback, anger and disappointment, this has been going for quite a LONG time and I think ANET has to do something at this point rather than staying silent.

>

> Cheers.

 

> @"Alyster.9470" said:

> @"Zaklex.6308" They just said in an interview that we will not get any raids and fractals in the following episodes. google the interview there is also a reddit thread stating this.

 

> @"Rubi Bayer.8493" said:

> Hi, everyone,

>

> Thank you for all the constructive feedback you’ve provided about templates. We’ve spent a lot of time reading and discussing your thoughts, and we’ve identified a few updates we feel confident we can start working on.

>

> Here are the pieces of feedback we’re currently working on addressing:

> • Automatically switching build and equipment templates when a character enters or exits PvP and WvW. We’ll need to make updates to this functionality to further integrate templates with PvP.

> • Ease of swapping legendary equipment between characters.

> • Greater flexibility when making experimental changes to templates.

> Because we have limited time to program, test, and implement these changes before the winter holidays, we’ll be able to give you a progress update early in the new year.

>

> We’ll keep reading your feedback, so please continue to share your thoughts as you play with templates.

> Thank you!

>

 

The release candence is the one thing left , i think

 

[Tukaram.8256]

I am fine with the state of the game. I am having more fun now than since the release. The lack of communication is a problem, but I think it is their corporate culture problem.

 

Back in the early MMORPG days Ultima Online was the granddaddy of them all. It was always owned by EA, but was run out of Texas by OSI. They had a very active official forum, and the developers regularly engaged with the members. I even ran into them in game on multiple occasions. Being from TX we had better access. We would hold meetups and some devs would come up from Austin for lunch.

 

BUT... I do remember at one big meetup we held, Sunsword (lead dev) answered a question about his 'wish list' for the game. Much of his ideas were met with cheers. Problem was, some people took his wish list as a contract. When the 'promises' were not delivered, they got angry. People can be stupid. It was a learning experience for the devs, though. Later EA pulled everyone to California and that was a total change. The corporate attitude of EA is... well... I think anything I say will be changed to 'kitten' so we will leave it at that ha ha. They closed the official forums and communication dried up almost overnight. I never liked it, but I understood.

 

If the devs come on here and tell us what they might do, or what they are working on, the complaints would rain down. Someone is always going to complain. I would like to see an active available community manager. But trying to be a liaison between corporate, devs, and players would be a horrible job. They would be getting hate from all sides. So, from a corporate viewpoint it is just easier to avoid that mess. The constant moaning and crying pushes away what little chance of communication we had.

 

As a player I would like to see more communication, but as a rational adult, I understand the standoffish attitude. :)

[Vayne.8563]

> @"mercury ranique.2170" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > As long as the investors are content with Anet, there is no compelling reason to change the status quo.

>

> Actually, of is a bit more then this. The investors where not content (at least with the way things went at arenanet). They had reasons to interfere (see the massive layoffs earlier this year and the announcements about staffchanges, management changes and what choices are made concerning content). The main investor has been pulling strings with this as a result

>

> And it makes sense. Endgame content is not a profitmaker. People do not come to GW2 for PvP, WvW, fractals or Raids. They come here for open world PvE. That's what sells the game to new players.

> Also, the players interested in laid back casual content are those who are typical more interested in cosmetic items. So it makes sense to invest there and keep creating new content to give an impression that GW2 stays fun for a long time so new people start with investing.

 

This is a bit of a stretch. No one is investing in Anet. You can't buy Anet stock. You can buy NcSoft stock. People were dissatisfied with NcSoft. NcSoft was dissatisfied with Anet. Which is NOT to say that NcSoft was dissatisfied with Guild Wars 2 specifically, since they never said so. The BULK of the layoffs were not Guild Wars 2 employees and though there were some Guild Wars 2 employees laid off, some people who had been working on other projects were moved back to Guild Wars 2.

 

Because the Guild Wars IP is the only product(s) offered at all by Anet, it's easy to make the assumption that Guild Wars = Anet. However that's not the case. Saying the investors even care about this one game is a pretty big stretch. NcSoft is a Korean company and most likely the investors are concerned with the Lineage IP.

 

 

[magnusthorek.8027]

PvP is endgame? ROTFL

[witcher.3197]

> @"Goettel.4389" said:

> I tend to assume about 10% of any player base is vocal on forums, Reddit etc. - and not even all of them are negative nancies.

> Which means things are rarely as bleak as painted, most are too busy just playing (and so presumably enjoying) the game.

 

You are making the false assumption that everyone you don't see complaining on reddit or the forum MUST be happy with the game.

 

And then fail to consider all the people who have stopped complaining because they quit, and rest assured they didn't quit out of happiness.