Staff as a DPS weapon

[Vardogr.9371]

I have been playing consistently for a sometime now and I realized there aren't any professions that can use a staff as a main DPS weapon outside of Elementalist and Mirage. I understand this is a melee focused game and the closer you are the more risk and thus more reward. I just see a lot of interesting animations and class fantasy in staff usage. I really like Druid and the celestial aspect and using a staff would be amazing with the beams of light and celestial energy slamming down on foes. As of right now I realize that staves shouldn't do the same damage as melee but what if there were traits or skills that improved or only worked at or near melee range for professions that can use a staff? If a Revenant can smash people at range with a hammer how is it out of the question for other professions to have something similar?

[Dahkeus.8243]

> @"Vardogr.9371" said:

> I have been playing consistently for a sometime now and I realized there aren't any professions that can use a staff as a main DPS weapon outside of Elementalist and Mirage. I understand this is a melee focused game and the closer you are the more risk and thus more reward. I just see a lot of interesting animations and class fantasy in staff usage. I really like Druid and the celestial aspect and using a staff would be amazing with the beams of light and celestial energy slamming down on foes. As of right now I realize that staves shouldn't do the same damage as melee but what if there were traits or skills that improved or only worked at or near melee range for professions that can use a staff? If a Revenant can smash people at range with a hammer how is it out of the question for other professions to have something similar?

 

You mean like...Daredevil?

[Vardogr.9371]

Well that's my bad for missing a profession spec. I guess I wasn't clear enough on the context I was trying to impart when explaining staff as a DPS weapon. I just don't think of Daredevil because they really aren't using the staff so much as flipping around.

[sorudo.9054]

the DPS of the ele is quite pathetic and timing restricted, the reason why i want to use it but i rather not.

[Randulf.7614]

> @"Vardogr.9371" said:

> Well that's my bad for missing a profession spec. I guess I wasn't clear enough on the context I was trying to impart when explaining staff as a DPS weapon. I just don't think of Daredevil because they really aren't using the staff so much as flipping around.

 

There is only one flip skill. Daredevil staff is great fun to use imo

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Vardogr.9371" said:

> Well that's my bad for missing a profession spec. I guess I wasn't clear enough on the context I was trying to impart when explaining staff as a DPS weapon. I just don't think of Daredevil because they really aren't using the staff so much as flipping around.

... the staff can literally 2-shot full bunkers because it's doing 10-15K damage per "flip".

 

[phokus.8934]

And core Necro?

 

What is this...

[PeerlessArch.6547]

Maybe OP meant 'ranged' staff dps --

[Doggie.3184]

> @"phokus.8934" said:

> And core Necro?

>

> What is this...

 

To be fair, Necro staff is extremely boring, visually.

Guardian Staff is pretty cool though, feels like a Mage when you use it now. And actually does damage, unlike Druid. Anet only did that to nerf the weapon though which was already used a lot + Guardian has sugarbaby priviledge since it's one of their favorite classes. So if that isn't enough it's unlikely you'll get what you want in future.

Anet has made it clear that not all weapons can be viable for pve and/or pvp

Like for example; I enjoy guns and I been wanting Pistol/Dagger Thief to not be a garbage weapon set in PvE since launch but the concept they did for them completely revolves around PvP and isn't even good at that either, as well as me wanting P/P ricochet back so I can actually use them for everything again (And only two classes can even main-hand pistols.) Some things will just always be underwelming for 10+ years.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"phokus.8934" said:

> And core Necro?

If core necro needs to use staff as a main dps weapon, i can only feel sorry for all their other core dps weapons

 

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Vardogr.9371" said:

> Well that's my bad for missing a profession spec. I guess I wasn't clear enough on the context I was trying to impart when explaining staff as a DPS weapon. I just don't think of Daredevil because they really aren't using the staff so much as flipping around.

 

Staff daredevil is one of the highest power damage specs in the game. The "flipping around" is usually part of a rotation that involves a damage boost after dodging. The majority of Daredevil Staff Damage comes from 1 and 2.

The exclusion you've made is due to your own ignorance.

[Cyninja.2954]

Staff on all the classes:

 

**Elementalist (baseline)**:

- support weapon in WvW for midline auramancers

- 32.8k Weaver benchmark on large target

- meta in WvW midline or backline builds

 

**Guardian (baseline)**:

- support weapon for PvE, WvW

- meta on all support builds

 

**Revenant (baseline)**:

- support weapon for PvE, WvW, Spvp

- meta

 

**Ranger (Druid specialization)**:

- support weapon for PvE

- meta on all support builds

 

**Thief (Daredevil specialization)**:

- high damage offensive weapon for power builds

- meta on all dps DD builds

 

**Mesmer (baseline)**:

- intermediate defensive/offensive weapon mostly for spvp or WvW roaming

- meta on spvp or wvw builds

 

**Necromancer (baseline)**:

- AoE crowd control and area denial weapon in WvW

- meta on midline or backline WvW builds

 

Yes, staff is in desperate need of help. The weapon has serious issues on multiple classes. /s

 

Staff is represented on 7 out of 9 (7of9, get it) classes and sees use on nearly all of them. Absolute top tier meta use on most of them. The weapon does not need more damage currently.

[Skotlex.7580]

Well, to be frank, OP's issue is the lack of staff as a damage oriented weapon, when historically it's always been an utility skill. It wasn't until HOT (daredevil & revenant) that this weapon started getting other roles.

 

basically, this is just the design, staffs mainly are support weapons, and usually very good at it.

[Vardogr.9371]

 

 

 

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> Staff on all the classes:

>

> **Elementalist (baseline)**:

> - support weapon in WvW for midline auramancers

> - 32.8k Weaver benchmark on large target

> - meta in WvW midline or backline builds

>

> **Guardian (baseline)**:

> - support weapon for PvE, WvW

> - meta on all support builds

>

> **Revenant (baseline)**:

> - support weapon for PvE, WvW, Spvp

> - meta

>

> **Ranger (Druid specialization)**:

> - support weapon for PvE

> - meta on all support builds

>

> **Thief (Daredevil specialization)**:

> - high damage offensive weapon for power builds

> - meta on all dps DD builds

>

> **Mesmer (baseline)**:

> - intermediate defensive/offensive weapon mostly for spvp or WvW roaming

> - meta on spvp or wvw builds

>

> **Necromancer (baseline)**:

> - AoE crowd control and area denial weapon in WvW

> - meta on midline or backline WvW builds

>

> Yes, staff is in desperate need of help. The weapon has serious issues on multiple classes. /s

>

> Staff is represented on 7 out of 9 (7of9, get it) classes and sees use on nearly all of them. Absolute top tier meta use on most of them. The weapon does not need more damage currently.

I feel like you intentionally missed my point . You clearly took some time compiling a list of things that do not apply to any aspect of what I meant. For example I excluded mesmer and elementalist yet you seemed determine to try to point out that they do the things I acknowledged. I never said staff needed help and I never mentioned anything about support aspects of staff. I pointed out that the fantasy of using a Staff as a main weapon for damage isn't really there. I thought pointing out the aspect of a druid calling celestial energy to damage and daze could have led people to understand I wasn't talking about Daredevil or SUPPORT aspects of staves. I am talking about the possibility of using staff as a caster weapon in the future not for support but for DPS on classes that it is used for support.

 

[Vardogr.9371]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"Vardogr.9371" said:

> > Well that's my bad for missing a profession spec. I guess I wasn't clear enough on the context I was trying to impart when explaining staff as a DPS weapon. I just don't think of Daredevil because they really aren't using the staff so much as flipping around.

>

> Staff daredevil is one of the highest power damage specs in the game. The "flipping around" is usually part of a rotation that involves a damage boost after dodging. The majority of Daredevil Staff Damage comes from 1 and 2.

> The exclusion you've made is due to your own ignorance.

 

Amazing! Thanks for pointing that out as I already pointed out my ignorance previously. But my point still stands that it doesn't fit the fantasy I was trying to describe. Which is something you chose to comment on instead of the actual content of my post.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Vardogr.9371" said:

>

>

>

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > Staff on all the classes:

> >

> > **Elementalist (baseline)**:

> > - support weapon in WvW for midline auramancers

> > - 32.8k Weaver benchmark on large target

> > - meta in WvW midline or backline builds

> >

> > **Guardian (baseline)**:

> > - support weapon for PvE, WvW

> > - meta on all support builds

> >

> > **Revenant (baseline)**:

> > - support weapon for PvE, WvW, Spvp

> > - meta

> >

> > **Ranger (Druid specialization)**:

> > - support weapon for PvE

> > - meta on all support builds

> >

> > **Thief (Daredevil specialization)**:

> > - high damage offensive weapon for power builds

> > - meta on all dps DD builds

> >

> > **Mesmer (baseline)**:

> > - intermediate defensive/offensive weapon mostly for spvp or WvW roaming

> > - meta on spvp or wvw builds

> >

> > **Necromancer (baseline)**:

> > - AoE crowd control and area denial weapon in WvW

> > - meta on midline or backline WvW builds

> >

> > Yes, staff is in desperate need of help. The weapon has serious issues on multiple classes. /s

> >

> > Staff is represented on 7 out of 9 (7of9, get it) classes and sees use on nearly all of them. Absolute top tier meta use on most of them. The weapon does not need more damage currently.

> I feel like you intentionally missed my point . You clearly took some time compiling a list of things that do not apply to any aspect of what I meant. For example I excluded mesmer and elementalist yet you seemed determine to try to point out that they do the things I acknowledged. I never said staff needed help and I never mentioned anything about support aspects of staff. I pointed out that the fantasy of using a Staff as a main weapon for damage isn't really there. I thought pointing out the aspect of a druid calling celestial energy to damage and daze could have led people to understand I wasn't talking about Daredevil or SUPPORT aspects of staves. I am talking about the possibility of using staff as a caster weapon in the future not for support but for DPS on classes that it is used for support.

>

 

and I pointed out that the weapon has a purpose as primarily support weapon. Any increased damage would come at the cost of the sustain and support the weapon provides (or it risks becoming grossly overpowered if it did both). I could also imagine that quite a few players who enjoy utilizing this weapon as a primary support weapon would be quite disappointed if its role was suddenly changed.

 

If you want to full-fill your fantasy of playing staff damage dealer, play elementalist or mesmer. If numbers are not the only aspect which you would consider as power but control as well, play necromancer. I'm not seeing the issue here.

[Vardogr.9371]

Yet again I am not advocating change to existing staff skills with the exception of Druid but I won't get into that. I was merely pointing out that there is a lack of solid direct DPS staff (save melee combat professions). I posited the concept of allowing staves to be used as DPS weapons where they would be more effective at close range that at further distances. All of which never mentioned changing existing support structures. So I will leave it at this, If they decide to add another elite spec in the future it would be nice to have the option to use staff as something more than a support weapon. It was wishful thinking to get people to talk about it. Instead everyone focused on what's existing and completely missed the point I was trying to make. I am completely aware of what is available currently for staff DPS in regards to casters.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> Staff on all the classes:

>

> Staff is represented on 7 out of 9 (7of9, get it) classes and sees use on nearly all of them. Absolute top tier meta use on most of them. The weapon does not need more damage currently.

Notice, that out of 7 examples given, 4 are support options, one is utility, one is intermediate damage, and only one is a primary damage weapon. And that one case is not a caster class weapon, but a melee one.

So, basically, OP _has_ a point.

 

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > Staff on all the classes:

> >

> > Staff is represented on 7 out of 9 (7of9, get it) classes and sees use on nearly all of them. Absolute top tier meta use on most of them. The weapon does not need more damage currently.

> Notice, that out of 7 examples given, 4 are support options, one is utility, one is intermediate damage, and only one is a primary damage weapon. And that one case is not a caster class weapon, but a melee one.

> So, basically, OP _has_ a point.

>

 

OP was talking about changing druid to use staff more offensively. He then dropped that notion in order to advocate for potential future staff using elites to be damage based. I don't care about future scenarios, I pointed out where staff is currently, which is a primary support weapon with 3 exceptions. I would also not call 32.8k golem dps intermediate, especially given the insane support on the weapon with elementalist.

 

So sure, future elite specializations IF there ever is any and IF they do use staff, could get more offensive staff designs. The current ones are not damage focused and will not be given the current implementation and their role.

[Jimbru.6014]

My support Scourge carries a staff in his arsenal; the range and AOE of marks are handy in some situations. My Mirage uses staff/staff condi and eats entire groups of mobs. Both are primarily PVE characters, doing open world and 5-person content. Never confuse "not meta in X type of content" with "useless".

[Gryphon.2875]

Personally, I'd love it if Necro staff did as much Condi DPS as scepter does.

[LucianDK.8615]

Necromancer staff is pretty weaksauce in pve. The pretty much only use for it is rapid tagging in open world groups, nothing more.

[Uden Reavstone.3426]

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> Necromancer staff is pretty weaksauce in pve. The pretty much only use for it is rapid tagging in open world groups, nothing more.

 

Or loading the enemy up with condis before switching to s/d or s/t. In four attacks, you got at least two stacks of bleed, one poison, fear, weakness, chill, whatever condis are on you, and, depending on your traits, burn, torment, and/or vulnerability. And this is all AoE which, with the right trait, is unblockable and you a shit-ton of life force. Doesn't seem like "weaksauce" to me. Now the aa does kind of suck, I'll give you that.

[LucianDK.8615]

> @"Uden Reavstone.3426" said:

> > @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > Necromancer staff is pretty weaksauce in pve. The pretty much only use for it is rapid tagging in open world groups, nothing more.

>

> Or loading the enemy up with condis before switching to s/d or s/t. In four attacks, you got at least two stacks of bleed, one poison, fear, weakness, chill, whatever condis are on you, and, depending on your traits, burn, torment, and/or vulnerability. And this is all AoE which, with the right trait, is unblockable and you a kitten-ton of life force. Doesn't seem like "weaksauce" to me. Now the aa does kind of suck, I'll give you that.

 

I repeat, PvE. Not WvW were scourges use with their sand shades for massive area denial.

Staff have no role for dps necromancers in pve. Your alt weapon set is far better served with a warhorn.

[Uden Reavstone.3426]

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > @"Uden Reavstone.3426" said:

> > > @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > > Necromancer staff is pretty weaksauce in pve. The pretty much only use for it is rapid tagging in open world groups, nothing more.

> >

> > Or loading the enemy up with condis before switching to s/d or s/t. In four attacks, you got at least two stacks of bleed, one poison, fear, weakness, chill, whatever condis are on you, and, depending on your traits, burn, torment, and/or vulnerability. And this is all AoE which, with the right trait, is unblockable and you a kitten-ton of life force. Doesn't seem like "weaksauce" to me. Now the aa does kind of suck, I'll give you that.

>

> I repeat, PvE. Not WvW were scourges use with their sand shades for massive area denial.

> Staff have no role for dps necromancers in pve. Your alt weapon set is far better served with a warhorn.

 

I do nothing but pve. It's helped me destroy many bosses. Start the fight with the four marks, then switch over to s/d or s/t, and the condi damage is through the roof.