ZDragon.3046 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 you dont have enough stab but necro is beating you... by prob converting your stab.... what do you mean WHUTCHUMEAN!? WHAT IS YOUR WINNIN SCHEME? IS THIS POST A MEME?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallic.2397 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 I play cc Dagger Weaver. Everyone has the same problem you're mentioning. It's not like holo is the only class getting "ping ponged" to cc's If timed right, I can chain 5 cc's in succession. Revs, warriors, necros, and holos all fall for it. The appropriate thing isn't to face tank it as you're suggesting. That's why holo was broken before. It could face tank and no damage could fully kill it... Without Stab, you gotta learn how to kite. That's what every other class has already been doing for months/years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyPuppy.8970 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Been playing core ele for a few seasons now, all I can say is to time your stab. But I think overall stab and some other boons should be shaved across the board. Too many things have been given like candies lately. Holo still has good damage, sustain and mobility, It's just less facerolling and forgiving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ourasa.7306 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Holosmith is pretty much a variant of core warrior at this point, and I’d say that’s a good thing. Holo has easy to use cleave, a spammable gap closer (holo 2), an AOE CC (holo 5), excellent burst heal (turret + combo field), and more consistent endurance through vigor. Core Warriors on the other hand have easier to use single target CC (Bull Charge/Shield Bash), more in combat sustain (Might makes right + Vigorous shouts), and higher potential damage output (might generation). However, both classes now have a similar playstyle in which they need to focus on weaving and landing important bursts instead of relentlessly assaulting whatever is in front of them whenever they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 > @"memausz.7264" said: > > @"otto.5684" said: > > Holo is exactly where it needs to be. It is strong, but not ridiculous. > > > > And OP, you do not have ridiculous uptime on stability sweety? Welcome to reality. It is more like 2 years too late. > > Warrior has a lot of stunbreaks, stab, and condi cleanse. Same for guard. Renegade can bunker better than a Prot Holo, and herald has access to frequent stunbreaks and evade frames and dwarf stance gives stab if they go that route. Rangers have plenty of access to stability and stunbreaks. Thief has plenty of stunbreak and evade frame access, in addition to stealth. Mesmers have plenty of access to evade frames and can kite like mad. Elementalists: tempests have access to frequent stunbreaks, as do weavers (in addition to evade frames). Scrapper has gyros and barriers that make up for the lack of stab on tools line, and even then they can always use other traitlines for stab as people have indicated on here. It's only scourge, core necro and reaper that can be ping ponged to death in comparable fashion to holosmith right now, but at least core necro and reaper have access to a secondary life pool and can corrupt the stab of a Holo at the same time (I feel for scourge mains). > > And yeah, people telling me to run other trait lines - you're essentially asking for rifle to be out of the viable competitive scene for holsmiths. It's already a sub par option to play sword-pistol, pistol-shield, pistol-pistol or even sword-shield (unless you bunker side node) for that matter. That literally leaves only rifle, and rifle is really restricted without the Tools line. *maybe* you could run something other than alchemy, though you'd lose Elixir E trait and that's a serious disadvantage. > > > Like I once I could at least disengage from warrior duels, but lately, I just haven't been able to. Also, I get CCed by weavers where I honestly should have some stab. Elixir B isn't as viable as people are suggesting, and especially not if you remove the Alchemy traitline from yourself. > > Like it's in this unfortunate limbo. > > Game balance is based on one's ability to counter play and I really do not see great options for counterplay in the current meta. > > And no, I don't follow Metabattle; it's a decent place to find builds to base your own build off of, but perfection of a play comes from one's play style as well. Like people who run annulment on holo, yeah, maybe good if you fight 5 holos, but that's it. > > And also, why hasn't the disengage photon forge bug been fixed yet? It's obvious to anyone who plays Holo... Stun breaks are not stability. Holo had ridiculous amount of stability with a ridiculous duration. It needed cut-down, without any doubt. And holo have been out performing. The balance changes did not happen in limbo. **THEY WERE NEEDED**. You can sit here and draw whatever you want. Anyone who played sPvP regularly knew this was coming. Next patch, expect FB and Weaver nerfs (maybe thief and rev). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > you dont have enough stab but necro is beating you... **by prob converting your stab..**.. what do you mean > WHUTCHUMEAN!? > WHAT IS YOUR WINNIN SCHEME? > IS THIS POST A MEME?!? lmfao this, Necro should actually be easier for you to faceroll now if you time your Elixir > @"memausz.7264" said: > After patch... > Can't win >It was meant to farm people who were underperforming in matches as it was the dmg-doing roamer. Lol, that's super funny. Rip my guy, holo still strong, you just cant force your damage now. Start dodging or using U to support key skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 > @"memausz.7264" said: > > @"otto.5684" said: > > Holo is exactly where it needs to be. It is strong, but not ridiculous. > > > > And OP, you do not have ridiculous uptime on stability sweety? Welcome to reality. It is more like 2 years too late. > > Warrior has a lot of stunbreaks, stab, and condi cleanse. Same for guard. Renegade can bunker better than a Prot Holo, and herald has access to frequent stunbreaks and evade frames and dwarf stance gives stab if they go that route. Rangers have plenty of access to stability and stunbreaks. Thief has plenty of stunbreak and evade frame access, in addition to stealth. Mesmers have plenty of access to evade frames and can kite like mad. Elementalists: tempests have access to frequent stunbreaks, as do weavers (in addition to evade frames). Scrapper has gyros and barriers that make up for the lack of stab on tools line, and even then they can always use other traitlines for stab as people have indicated on here. It's only scourge, core necro and reaper that can be ping ponged to death in comparable fashion to holosmith right now, but at least core necro and reaper have access to a secondary life pool and can corrupt the stab of a Holo at the same time (I feel for scourge mains). > > And yeah, people telling me to run other trait lines - you're essentially asking for rifle to be out of the viable competitive scene for holsmiths. It's already a sub par option to play sword-pistol, pistol-shield, pistol-pistol or even sword-shield (unless you bunker side node) for that matter. That literally leaves only rifle, and rifle is really restricted without the Tools line. *maybe* you could run something other than alchemy, though you'd lose Elixir E trait and that's a serious disadvantage. > > > Like I once I could at least disengage from warrior duels, but lately, I just haven't been able to. Also, I get CCed by weavers where I honestly should have some stab. Elixir B isn't as viable as people are suggesting, and especially not if you remove the Alchemy traitline from yourself. > > Like it's in this unfortunate limbo. > > Game balance is based on one's ability to counter play and I really do not see great options for counterplay in the current meta. > > And no, I don't follow Metabattle; it's a decent place to find builds to base your own build off of, but perfection of a play comes from one's play style as well. Like people who run annulment on holo, yeah, maybe good if you fight 5 holos, but that's it. > > And also, why hasn't the disengage photon forge bug been fixed yet? It's obvious to anyone who plays Holo... I'm sorry holo got nerfed, it always hurts when the class you play gets hurt and things get taken away. Sometimes it's unwarranted, other times it is. Holo contributed in a huge way to power creep and its about time holo get nerfed, now its time for guardian to get nerfed too and firebrand, then soulbeast so that we can have a balanced game. If we buff classes to the power crept classes, we create more power creep, so it's better this way to scale down. We shouldn't even be at the level Pof classes are, as its way too much too late, I don't know if ANET can recover after all the mistakes they made in creating in Hot and pof power creep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math.5123 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 I have 5 seconds of stab every 50 seconds and I'm doing fine on a class with no evade frames and only melee weapons. So should you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shao.7236 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Nobody talking about Toss Elixir B? No? Okay. It's almost as if people can't get out of their cheesy habits. I sure am eager to see how Anet is gonna knock Theif P/W lack of risk and Warrior/Spellbreaker 25 Might 5k Reckless Dodge spam, if anything cause it's pretty much what smells lately. To think people hate on FBs and Revs, one's allergic to unblockables while the other is easy to toss around. Latter is most Weavers play this super long dull boring build with no risk at all. Holosmith is in a nice spot now, I want to congratulate Anet for their good work on U, it's a good stunbreak/riposte utility now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 > @"Derm.4932" said: > **Holo main**: my spec isn't META anymore, plz buff Anet > _Anet buffs Holo_ > **Mirage main:** my spec isn't as strong as Holo anymore, plz buff Anet > _Anet buffs Mirage_ > **Holo main:** my spec isn't as strong as Mirage anymore, plz buff Anet > _Anet buffs Holo..._ > > > Holo is still better than like what -- ~80% of the other elite/core specs? Just because it isn't META doesn't mean it needs buffs. This kitten race to the top is a huge factor in some of the worst powercreep balancing. We know for a fact there is a big balance patch in the future led by a new balance dev that aims to bring down overall power levels. How about being patient and wait for the nerfs instead of crying for them to make Holo META again? Aside from Scepter Buffs that happened back in 2018 when Scepter was underperforming I actually don't think Mirage has gotten a single buff since the Phantasm rework, and most of those scepter buffs were rolled back. Edit: Mass Invisibility and the Manipulation Trait were buffed. Forgot about those. I think that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrForz.1953 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Not sure it was wise to post this, OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 seems like now you actually have to kite on holo rather then spend 85% of the time pressuring. that's a good thing, learn to adapt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zexanima.7851 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 After playing some holosmith last night, I had no problems with stability unless I got focused by multiple opponents. You suppose to lose to multiple opponents on any profession though so that's to be expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Holo shouldn't even have any stab to begin with, so good ridance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddbopkins.2630 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 O noooooo Holo isn't AS good as it was. It's not as easy to play anymore ooo noooo. No more stab every 5 seconds o nooo Stop ur complain. Holo has been one of the top classes for a long long time. I'm pretty sure there Holo skills are still on a low as fuck cool down. And there skills can still be spammed threw walls and have aoe. >@memausz.7264 >It's now a sub-par class. Good it's been to strong for to long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hederrain.9207 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > Holo shouldn't even have any stab to begin with, so good ridance. yea holo should be free kill and ping pong ball, nothing in the game dosnt have stability (maybe except for thieves) but holo deserves to have none? seems biased to me . core engi as a whole have poor acces to stab besides toss elixir b and juggernaut gm trait. nerfing elixir U this hard was a bad choice on anets side but it is what it is. OP: holo is fine. slot elixir b and u get all the stab u need. sure u lack a block but kiting goes a long way. i dont feel different after nerfs. play safe, thats about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Also how does Holosmith not beat One Shot Core Mesmer? One shot core mesmer is a build that is extremely glassy, only a couple of hard mitigation abilities, and it's survivability comes from maximizing stealth uptime, and holosmith still farts out reveal without even trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 > @"Shao.7236" said: > Nobody talking about Toss Elixir B? No? Okay. Try using Toss Elixir B with all the projectile destruction and reflects that fly around. It also has super clunky ground targeting and casting time, and the stab only lasts 4 seconds. :smile: I don't know how many times I've had a toss elixir skill rendered moot by random projectile destruction. > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > Also how does Holosmith not beat One Shot Core Mesmer? > > One shot core mesmer is a build that is extremely glassy, only a couple of hard mitigation abilities, and it's survivability comes from maximizing stealth uptime, and holosmith still farts out reveal without even trying. Non-prot holo builds are super glassy, they can easily be taken out by core power mesmers. Prot holo builds lack teleports and it's very easy for core mesmer to juke them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shao.7236 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 > @"Vagrant.7206" That never happened in my entire GW2 lifespan so, you really have to try and make it happen. I would favor Crystal Configuration to get back 4 seconds of Stability but then again, you get 2 stacks on a delay which equates to 4 seconds anyway of you to be one stability away from being an unstoppable force with a skill that can be used every 6 seconds, so no it's fine as it is. Also saying that 4 seconds is nothing, have you know that most skills in this game that grant stability do no more than that, which means it's in line with the majority of the content that gives stability depending on their effects and application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 > @"Shao.7236" said: > > @"Vagrant.7206" > That never happened in my entire GW2 lifespan so, you really have to try and make it happen. It's happened to me many times, especially during HoT days. You must not have played core engi in PvP much. Hell, I lost a Toss Elixir U the other day to a reaper who ran at me with [Death's Charge](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Charge). I started to cast the skill when he initiated the charge, and it went "poof"! Exactly that noise. > @"Shao.7236" said: > Also saying that 4 seconds is nothing, have you know that most skills in this game that grant stability do no more than that, which means it's in line with the majority of the content that gives stability depending on their effects and application. * Firebrand spits out stability like nobody's business. That's one of their biggest balance issues, honestly. Core guard has a [shout](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Stand_Your_Ground!%22) for 6s. * Dolyak's signet grants [8 seconds](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dolyak_Signet). * [Dolyak stance](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dolyak_Stance) grants 6 seconds. * [Armor of earth](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_of_Earth) grants 6 seconds. * [Trail of Anguish](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trail_of_Anguish) grants 6 seconds. [infusing Terror](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusing_Terror) grants 6 seconds. And bear in mind, none of these skills have cast times (seriously, they're all instantaneous, I didn't bother to include the non-instantaneous stability skills), nor doi any of them have awkward ground targeting. Nor do they have to worry about projectile destruction. Toss Elixir B is the only core engineer skill which grants more than a [second](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elixir_U) of [stability](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rumble), and it has several conditions attached to it. Stability is effective when you can predict or read an enemy's attacks -- a cast time and ground targeting on it makes it substantially worse. One of my ongoing complaints about the "Toss Elixir" skills is this kind of thing. It should be more like "smash elixir," where it's a PBAoE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shao.7236 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 @"Vagrant.7206" They're all 30+ seconds. Engineer is designed to be full of key presses, that doesn't come off as a surprise when you can U then Toss B but not have one skill that does it all at once. Boon duration is also something very common among the profession, Guardians rarely run anything without vitality either and the compromises often have to be made in between damage and sustain. Toss B can also go as low as 17 seconds, which every so often with Boon Duration is plenty. All I'm seeing is people having lost what they took for granted on something that was fundamentally overperforming, it's time to adjust. I often play core Engineer and it's quite playable, so should Holosmith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 > @"Hederrain.9207" said: > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > Holo shouldn't even have any stab to begin with, so good ridance. > > yea holo should be free kill and ping pong ball, nothing in the game dosnt have stability (maybe except for thieves) but holo deserves to have none? > seems biased to me . > core engi as a whole have poor acces to stab besides toss elixir b and juggernaut gm trait. nerfing elixir U this hard was a bad choice on anets side but it is what it is. > > OP: > holo is fine. slot elixir b and u get all the stab u need. sure u lack a block but kiting goes a long way. i dont feel different after nerfs. play safe, thats about it Actually, thief does have stab blinding powder from deception, consume plasma detonate plasma, and blinding powder is decently accessible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hederrain.9207 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"Hederrain.9207" said: > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > Holo shouldn't even have any stab to begin with, so good ridance. > > > > yea holo should be free kill and ping pong ball, nothing in the game dosnt have stability (maybe except for thieves) but holo deserves to have none? > > seems biased to me . > > core engi as a whole have poor acces to stab besides toss elixir b and juggernaut gm trait. nerfing elixir U this hard was a bad choice on anets side but it is what it is. > > > > OP: > > holo is fine. slot elixir b and u get all the stab u need. sure u lack a block but kiting goes a long way. i dont feel different after nerfs. play safe, thats about it > > Actually, thief does have stab blinding powder from deception, consume plasma detonate plasma, and blinding powder is decently accessible oh right, completely forgot about consume plasma , wasnt 100% sure about thief thats why i added it. thanks mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hederrain.9207 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > Also how does Holosmith not beat One Shot Core Mesmer? > > One shot core mesmer is a build that is extremely glassy, only a couple of hard mitigation abilities, and it's survivability comes from maximizing stealth uptime, and holosmith still farts out reveal without even trying. @"Vagrant.7206" rifle elixir holo should always beat one shot core mes. its not a question if the holo is glassy or not. engi's just got too much utility if played by ppl that can react to sounds and dodge a giant etheral greatsword flying their way. also ive never had toss elixir B destroyed by projectile hate and i got 3k hours on engi alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virdo.1540 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 ye the holo-nerf of the last update was complete garbage. The stability-remove didnt make the holosmith worse in high-end players hands, only almost unplayable in lower-tier hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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