How To Beat Rangers - A Secret l2p Guide

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> Just because you CAN beat it and it isn't the **strongest** spec out there doesn't mean it's in a good spot or that it's enjoyable to play against. They are hard as hell to pressure or lock down due to all their stealth access, movement skills, blocks ect. They have wayyyy too much CC for being a highly mobile profession with the best single target ranged weapon in the game. Dumb amount of boon access but this is just the whole state of the game right now. Ranger is one of those professions that if they are good you just can't kill them. Also, maul is on a very short cooldown and hits for very high damage. As they say, the best defense is a good offense. It's hard to fight a ranger in melee range when you some how have to mitigate 8-10k hits every 3.5 seconds while hoping you don't get gazelled or smokescale CC'ed.

>

> All that being said, Ranger isn't the absolute hardest thing to fight. I still groan every time I have to fight one though.

 

8-10k hits every 3.5 seconds ?????

 

Please, link me which ranger builds you're fighting against that are both incredibly survivable and have enough damage to 2 tap people in 7 seconds.

[Zexanima.7851]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > Just because you CAN beat it and it isn't the **strongest** spec out there doesn't mean it's in a good spot or that it's enjoyable to play against. They are hard as hell to pressure or lock down due to all their stealth access, movement skills, blocks ect. They have wayyyy too much CC for being a highly mobile profession with the best single target ranged weapon in the game. Dumb amount of boon access but this is just the whole state of the game right now. Ranger is one of those professions that if they are good you just can't kill them. Also, maul is on a very short cooldown and hits for very high damage. As they say, the best defense is a good offense. It's hard to fight a ranger in melee range when you some how have to mitigate 8-10k hits every 3.5 seconds while hoping you don't get gazelled or smokescale CC'ed.

> >

> > All that being said, Ranger isn't the absolute hardest thing to fight. I still groan every time I have to fight one though.

>

> 8-10k hits every 3.5 seconds ?????

>

> Please, link me which ranger builds you're fighting against that are both incredibly survivable and have enough damage to 2 tap people in 7 seconds.

 

Dude, I know very well how survivable and how much damage ranger can dish out. **YOU** schooled me in game some time ago on how best to play it. Ranger has great survivability as long as you use your active defenses correctly, you can't face tank like a warrior obviously. When you have a constant 25 might stacks though you can dish out some pretty mean damage even if you don't build full glass. Idk why you're acting like 8-10k on maul is a lot, that's just normal.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > Just because you CAN beat it and it isn't the **strongest** spec out there doesn't mean it's in a good spot or that it's enjoyable to play against. They are hard as hell to pressure or lock down due to all their stealth access, movement skills, blocks ect. They have wayyyy too much CC for being a highly mobile profession with the best single target ranged weapon in the game. Dumb amount of boon access but this is just the whole state of the game right now. Ranger is one of those professions that if they are good you just can't kill them. Also, maul is on a very short cooldown and hits for very high damage. As they say, the best defense is a good offense. It's hard to fight a ranger in melee range when you some how have to mitigate 8-10k hits every 3.5 seconds while hoping you don't get gazelled or smokescale CC'ed.

> > >

> > > All that being said, Ranger isn't the absolute hardest thing to fight. I still groan every time I have to fight one though.

> >

> > 8-10k hits every 3.5 seconds ?????

> >

> > Please, link me which ranger builds you're fighting against that are both incredibly survivable and have enough damage to 2 tap people in 7 seconds.

>

> Dude, I know very well how survivable and how much damage ranger can dish out. **YOU** schooled me in game some time ago on how best to play it. Ranger has great survivability as long as you use your active defenses correctly, you can't face tank like a warrior obviously. When you have a constant 25 might stacks though you can dish out some pretty mean damage even if you don't build full glass. Idk why you're acting like 8-10k on maul is a lot, that's just normal.

 

I run a relatively squishy build and my Mauls rarely hit for more than 5k (average 3.4k). Boonbeast builds don't even stack might outside of SotP so it's not a "constant 25 might stacks" either.

 

I'll say it again. Please link me whatever ranger build you're fighting against that can consistently Maul for 8-10k and are extremely difficult to kill. 8-10k Mauls are NOT normal. If you link me a build that has all of the stuff you just claimed, I'll change my mind. Until that happens, no one (myself included) is going to believe you.

[JETWING.2759]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> Well here is a good question for you guys who insist that Ranger/Soulbeast is too strong:

>

> Is it Core Ranger or is it Soulbeast that is too strong?

>

> @"bravan.3876" @"Zexanima.7851" @"Psycoprophet.8107" @"JETWING.2759"

 

Soulbeast, to be more precise. But most things comes from Core Ranger and could get some review:

 

* Long Bow: All skills could have their range decreased to 1200.

* Barrage - This skill could require line of sight (like Engineer's Orbital Strike).

* Rapid Fire - This skill could have his damage decreased.

* Hunter's shot - This skill could no longer grants swiftness.

* Maul - Could have his damage decreased.

* "Sic Em" - Could have his range decreased to 1200 (max) and no longer increase damage.

* Beastmode - Could require a live/active pet (Currently, the SB can merge with dead pet, instantly reviving it).

* Beastmode - Pets could get damage while merged.

*

[Zexanima.7851]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > Just because you CAN beat it and it isn't the **strongest** spec out there doesn't mean it's in a good spot or that it's enjoyable to play against. They are hard as hell to pressure or lock down due to all their stealth access, movement skills, blocks ect. They have wayyyy too much CC for being a highly mobile profession with the best single target ranged weapon in the game. Dumb amount of boon access but this is just the whole state of the game right now. Ranger is one of those professions that if they are good you just can't kill them. Also, maul is on a very short cooldown and hits for very high damage. As they say, the best defense is a good offense. It's hard to fight a ranger in melee range when you some how have to mitigate 8-10k hits every 3.5 seconds while hoping you don't get gazelled or smokescale CC'ed.

> > > >

> > > > All that being said, Ranger isn't the absolute hardest thing to fight. I still groan every time I have to fight one though.

> > >

> > > 8-10k hits every 3.5 seconds ?????

> > >

> > > Please, link me which ranger builds you're fighting against that are both incredibly survivable and have enough damage to 2 tap people in 7 seconds.

> >

> > Dude, I know very well how survivable and how much damage ranger can dish out. **YOU** schooled me in game some time ago on how best to play it. Ranger has great survivability as long as you use your active defenses correctly, you can't face tank like a warrior obviously. When you have a constant 25 might stacks though you can dish out some pretty mean damage even if you don't build full glass. Idk why you're acting like 8-10k on maul is a lot, that's just normal.

>

> I run a relatively squishy build and my Mauls rarely hit for more than 5k (average 3.4k). Boonbeast builds don't even stack might outside of SotP so it's not a "constant 25 might stacks" either.

>

> I'll say it again. Please link me whatever ranger build you're fighting against that can consistently Maul for 8-10k and are extremely difficult to kill. 8-10k Mauls are NOT normal. If you link me a build that has all of the stuff you just claimed, I'll change my mind. Until that happens, no one (myself included) is going to believe you.

 

Aight

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > > Just because you CAN beat it and it isn't the **strongest** spec out there doesn't mean it's in a good spot or that it's enjoyable to play against. They are hard as hell to pressure or lock down due to all their stealth access, movement skills, blocks ect. They have wayyyy too much CC for being a highly mobile profession with the best single target ranged weapon in the game. Dumb amount of boon access but this is just the whole state of the game right now. Ranger is one of those professions that if they are good you just can't kill them. Also, maul is on a very short cooldown and hits for very high damage. As they say, the best defense is a good offense. It's hard to fight a ranger in melee range when you some how have to mitigate 8-10k hits every 3.5 seconds while hoping you don't get gazelled or smokescale CC'ed.

> > > > >

> > > > > All that being said, Ranger isn't the absolute hardest thing to fight. I still groan every time I have to fight one though.

> > > >

> > > > 8-10k hits every 3.5 seconds ?????

> > > >

> > > > Please, link me which ranger builds you're fighting against that are both incredibly survivable and have enough damage to 2 tap people in 7 seconds.

> > >

> > > Dude, I know very well how survivable and how much damage ranger can dish out. **YOU** schooled me in game some time ago on how best to play it. Ranger has great survivability as long as you use your active defenses correctly, you can't face tank like a warrior obviously. When you have a constant 25 might stacks though you can dish out some pretty mean damage even if you don't build full glass. Idk why you're acting like 8-10k on maul is a lot, that's just normal.

> >

> > I run a relatively squishy build and my Mauls rarely hit for more than 5k (average 3.4k). Boonbeast builds don't even stack might outside of SotP so it's not a "constant 25 might stacks" either.

> >

> > I'll say it again. Please link me whatever ranger build you're fighting against that can consistently Maul for 8-10k and are extremely difficult to kill. 8-10k Mauls are NOT normal. If you link me a build that has all of the stuff you just claimed, I'll change my mind. Until that happens, no one (myself included) is going to believe you.

>

> Aight

 

[Watch.](

)

 

I run this build but on an amulet with less crit chance.

 

Neither me nor my pets are two-shotting the Light Golem, much less the Medium Golem.

[Zexanima.7851]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > > > Just because you CAN beat it and it isn't the **strongest** spec out there doesn't mean it's in a good spot or that it's enjoyable to play against. They are hard as hell to pressure or lock down due to all their stealth access, movement skills, blocks ect. They have wayyyy too much CC for being a highly mobile profession with the best single target ranged weapon in the game. Dumb amount of boon access but this is just the whole state of the game right now. Ranger is one of those professions that if they are good you just can't kill them. Also, maul is on a very short cooldown and hits for very high damage. As they say, the best defense is a good offense. It's hard to fight a ranger in melee range when you some how have to mitigate 8-10k hits every 3.5 seconds while hoping you don't get gazelled or smokescale CC'ed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > All that being said, Ranger isn't the absolute hardest thing to fight. I still groan every time I have to fight one though.

> > > > >

> > > > > 8-10k hits every 3.5 seconds ?????

> > > > >

> > > > > Please, link me which ranger builds you're fighting against that are both incredibly survivable and have enough damage to 2 tap people in 7 seconds.

> > > >

> > > > Dude, I know very well how survivable and how much damage ranger can dish out. **YOU** schooled me in game some time ago on how best to play it. Ranger has great survivability as long as you use your active defenses correctly, you can't face tank like a warrior obviously. When you have a constant 25 might stacks though you can dish out some pretty mean damage even if you don't build full glass. Idk why you're acting like 8-10k on maul is a lot, that's just normal.

> > >

> > > I run a relatively squishy build and my Mauls rarely hit for more than 5k (average 3.4k). Boonbeast builds don't even stack might outside of SotP so it's not a "constant 25 might stacks" either.

> > >

> > > I'll say it again. Please link me whatever ranger build you're fighting against that can consistently Maul for 8-10k and are extremely difficult to kill. 8-10k Mauls are NOT normal. If you link me a build that has all of the stuff you just claimed, I'll change my mind. Until that happens, no one (myself included) is going to believe you.

> >

> > Aight

>

> [Watch.](

)

>

> I run this build but on an amulet with less crit chance.

 

Nice

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > > > > Just because you CAN beat it and it isn't the **strongest** spec out there doesn't mean it's in a good spot or that it's enjoyable to play against. They are hard as hell to pressure or lock down due to all their stealth access, movement skills, blocks ect. They have wayyyy too much CC for being a highly mobile profession with the best single target ranged weapon in the game. Dumb amount of boon access but this is just the whole state of the game right now. Ranger is one of those professions that if they are good you just can't kill them. Also, maul is on a very short cooldown and hits for very high damage. As they say, the best defense is a good offense. It's hard to fight a ranger in melee range when you some how have to mitigate 8-10k hits every 3.5 seconds while hoping you don't get gazelled or smokescale CC'ed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > All that being said, Ranger isn't the absolute hardest thing to fight. I still groan every time I have to fight one though.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 8-10k hits every 3.5 seconds ?????

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please, link me which ranger builds you're fighting against that are both incredibly survivable and have enough damage to 2 tap people in 7 seconds.

> > > > >

> > > > > Dude, I know very well how survivable and how much damage ranger can dish out. **YOU** schooled me in game some time ago on how best to play it. Ranger has great survivability as long as you use your active defenses correctly, you can't face tank like a warrior obviously. When you have a constant 25 might stacks though you can dish out some pretty mean damage even if you don't build full glass. Idk why you're acting like 8-10k on maul is a lot, that's just normal.

> > > >

> > > > I run a relatively squishy build and my Mauls rarely hit for more than 5k (average 3.4k). Boonbeast builds don't even stack might outside of SotP so it's not a "constant 25 might stacks" either.

> > > >

> > > > I'll say it again. Please link me whatever ranger build you're fighting against that can consistently Maul for 8-10k and are extremely difficult to kill. 8-10k Mauls are NOT normal. If you link me a build that has all of the stuff you just claimed, I'll change my mind. Until that happens, no one (myself included) is going to believe you.

> > >

> > > Aight

> >

> > [Watch.](

)

> >

> > I run this build but on an amulet with less crit chance.

>

> Nice

 

Man it's fucking hilarious talking with some of you people.

 

Survivable Soulbeast builds two tapping people with "normal" 8-10k Mauls and perma 25 might?

 

Link everyone the build you were fighting against or you're just another person spewing nonsense on the forums.

[Zexanima.7851]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > > > > > Just because you CAN beat it and it isn't the **strongest** spec out there doesn't mean it's in a good spot or that it's enjoyable to play against. They are hard as hell to pressure or lock down due to all their stealth access, movement skills, blocks ect. They have wayyyy too much CC for being a highly mobile profession with the best single target ranged weapon in the game. Dumb amount of boon access but this is just the whole state of the game right now. Ranger is one of those professions that if they are good you just can't kill them. Also, maul is on a very short cooldown and hits for very high damage. As they say, the best defense is a good offense. It's hard to fight a ranger in melee range when you some how have to mitigate 8-10k hits every 3.5 seconds while hoping you don't get gazelled or smokescale CC'ed.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > All that being said, Ranger isn't the absolute hardest thing to fight. I still groan every time I have to fight one though.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 8-10k hits every 3.5 seconds ?????

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Please, link me which ranger builds you're fighting against that are both incredibly survivable and have enough damage to 2 tap people in 7 seconds.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dude, I know very well how survivable and how much damage ranger can dish out. **YOU** schooled me in game some time ago on how best to play it. Ranger has great survivability as long as you use your active defenses correctly, you can't face tank like a warrior obviously. When you have a constant 25 might stacks though you can dish out some pretty mean damage even if you don't build full glass. Idk why you're acting like 8-10k on maul is a lot, that's just normal.

> > > > >

> > > > > I run a relatively squishy build and my Mauls rarely hit for more than 5k (average 3.4k). Boonbeast builds don't even stack might outside of SotP so it's not a "constant 25 might stacks" either.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'll say it again. Please link me whatever ranger build you're fighting against that can consistently Maul for 8-10k and are extremely difficult to kill. 8-10k Mauls are NOT normal. If you link me a build that has all of the stuff you just claimed, I'll change my mind. Until that happens, no one (myself included) is going to believe you.

> > > >

> > > > Aight

> > >

> > > [Watch.](

)

> > >

> > > I run this build but on an amulet with less crit chance.

> >

> > Nice

>

> Man it's kitten hilarious talking with some of you people.

>

> Survivable Soulbeast builds two tapping people with "normal" 8-10k Mauls and perma 25 might?

>

> Link everyone the build you were fighting against or you're just another person spewing nonsense on the forums.

 

Neat

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > > > > > > Just because you CAN beat it and it isn't the **strongest** spec out there doesn't mean it's in a good spot or that it's enjoyable to play against. They are hard as hell to pressure or lock down due to all their stealth access, movement skills, blocks ect. They have wayyyy too much CC for being a highly mobile profession with the best single target ranged weapon in the game. Dumb amount of boon access but this is just the whole state of the game right now. Ranger is one of those professions that if they are good you just can't kill them. Also, maul is on a very short cooldown and hits for very high damage. As they say, the best defense is a good offense. It's hard to fight a ranger in melee range when you some how have to mitigate 8-10k hits every 3.5 seconds while hoping you don't get gazelled or smokescale CC'ed.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > All that being said, Ranger isn't the absolute hardest thing to fight. I still groan every time I have to fight one though.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 8-10k hits every 3.5 seconds ?????

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Please, link me which ranger builds you're fighting against that are both incredibly survivable and have enough damage to 2 tap people in 7 seconds.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dude, I know very well how survivable and how much damage ranger can dish out. **YOU** schooled me in game some time ago on how best to play it. Ranger has great survivability as long as you use your active defenses correctly, you can't face tank like a warrior obviously. When you have a constant 25 might stacks though you can dish out some pretty mean damage even if you don't build full glass. Idk why you're acting like 8-10k on maul is a lot, that's just normal.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I run a relatively squishy build and my Mauls rarely hit for more than 5k (average 3.4k). Boonbeast builds don't even stack might outside of SotP so it's not a "constant 25 might stacks" either.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'll say it again. Please link me whatever ranger build you're fighting against that can consistently Maul for 8-10k and are extremely difficult to kill. 8-10k Mauls are NOT normal. If you link me a build that has all of the stuff you just claimed, I'll change my mind. Until that happens, no one (myself included) is going to believe you.

> > > > >

> > > > > Aight

> > > >

> > > > [Watch.](

)

> > > >

> > > > I run this build but on an amulet with less crit chance.

> > >

> > > Nice

> >

> > Man it's kitten hilarious talking with some of you people.

> >

> > Survivable Soulbeast builds two tapping people with "normal" 8-10k Mauls and perma 25 might?

> >

> > Link everyone the build you were fighting against or you're just another person spewing nonsense on the forums.

>

> Neat

 

Man it's kitten hilarious talking with some of you people.

 

Survivable Soulbeast builds two tapping people with "normal" 8-10k Mauls and perma 25 might?

 

Link everyone the build you were fighting against or you're just another person spewing nonsense on the forums.

[Mogwai.4015]

> @"JETWING.2759" said:

> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > Well here is a good question for you guys who insist that Ranger/Soulbeast is too strong:

> >

> > Is it Core Ranger or is it Soulbeast that is too strong?

> >

> > @"bravan.3876" @"Zexanima.7851" @"Psycoprophet.8107" @"JETWING.2759"

>

> Soulbeast, to be more precise. But most things comes from Core Ranger and could get some review:

>

> * Long Bow: All skills could have their range decreased to 1200.

> * Barrage - This skill could require line of sight (like Engineer's Orbital Strike).

> * Rapid Fire - This skill could have his damage decreased.

> * Hunter's shot - This skill could no longer grants swiftness.

> * Maul - Could have his damage decreased.

> * "Sic Em" - Could have his range decreased to 1200 (max) and no longer increase damage.

> * Beastmode - Could require a live/active pet (Currently, the SB can merge with dead pet, instantly reviving it).

> * Beastmode - Pets could get damage while merged.

> *

 

I am no Ranger apologist (haven't played it seriously in like a year and a half), but some of these suggestions seem so off. Longbow is actually a very well-designed weapon. Only thing I find annoying about it is that it extends beyond 1500 range.

 

Rapid Fire itself isn't that strong, I would say that it is more of an issue of damage modifiers the class has access to that makes longbow feel so oppressive.

 

Hunter's Shot swiftness removal? Why? Seems random and like a "just because" nerf. The skill is strong but it being a projectile gives it a lot of counterplay considering it needs to land in order to proc the stealth, which is a very important defensive skill for the kit.

 

Barrage is pretty strong now, but I don't consider it to need any adjustments. It makes the stationary cast time more justifiable. It not requiring LoS makes it really nice for niche situations like killing siege in WvW (which is a valuable asset when assaulting enemy structures for a class that struggles to have a role in large-scale play).

 

Remove the damage modifier from Sic 'Em? That is like the primary reason for using the skill. Whether the skill is healthy for the game is another story, but to completely remove the damage modifier from it is how you fully gut a skill.

 

Counterattack on Greatsword IMO is the biggest problem with a LB/GS Ranger atm. I found the counterplay on the previous version to be much healthier, and the new version seemed to drastically lower the skill floor on the weapon. Although I don't believe in being able to chain evades from the AA chain *in principle*, I'd rather deal with that than the current GS4 since the block from Counterattack had to be used a lot more strategically before.

 

Other than that, I believe from what I read of one of @"shadowpass.4236"'s posts in another thread, I agreed with most of what he suggested (targeting synergy with MM and Gazelle in particular). I still do take issue with Dolyak Stance offering both damage reduction and movement impairment immunity and the fact that the damage reduction stacks additively with protection. I personally believe one of the effects should be completely removed as the skill feels too stacked.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

>

>

>

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > There is a reason druid is not as strong as core ranger and soulbeast

>

> Allow me to explain exactly why that is. Good place to recap this:

>

> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > These Druid players lately are spawning from a video that I had made, right before Druid was hit with wrath of god apocalypse nerfing. I know most of the players you're talking about, it's the same guys who whisper me trying to compare their Druid builds to mine. I'll guarantee you that 9 out of 10 of these Druid players you're seeing aren't even reaching a bottom plat 1 level. And I'll guarantee you that none of them are plat 2+. Druid builds really are bad man. Comparatively what's going on is that where a Druid has to wear Mender or Harrier to achieve heal output with CA Kit which destroys its DPS, other classes can match that self sustain while wearing DPS amulets and having quite seriously 4x the damage output or more.

> >

> > I've already well explained the meat of the problem with Druid in several other threads. Here are a couple I could find:

> >

> > * https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/77006/lets-talk-about-druid-competitively-after-pet-nerf-and-buffs-that-ca-deserves

> > * https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/82294/discussion-about-detrimental-weapon-kit-changes-for-all-classes

> > * https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/86250/reworking-underperforming-specs-druid-edition <- this one has good explanations in odd spots

>

> But in a nutshell:

>

> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> >

> > There are 2 primary mechanical issues with Druid:

 

> > But yeah, that's the 2 main problems. 1) CA Kit is too nerfed for an active skill use kit in a DPS power crept game where everything else has enormous passive sustain. 2) The mechanics of CA Kit require those heal ticks to fill its bar for use in a practical time frame, which forces the use of Wilderness/Beastmastery for the kit to be viable at all. Which seriously limits what the Druid can do in terms of finding ways to get DPS output, while still keeping the functionality of its kit viable. **What Arenanet should do, is make 0 heal stat heals from CA Kit HIGHER, and then lower the coefficient gains from wearing heal stat amulets. This way Druids can organize for more DPS output, but can't build around being a solid 1v2 Bunker so easily.**

> >

> > Before we get to "I've seen some good high damage Condi Druids or maybe even power Druids" I dunno about that. I think what people are seeing is when a Druid is being ignored for the most part in the match, because it is the least of the team's worries, and so he is actually being allowed to fill his CA Kit at a slow pace. Then someone goes around a corner or something and tries to engage it on a side node, after the first 3+ minutes of the match after it finally has its CA Kit full. In this event, a Skirmishing/Sage Condi Druid will have a short opening to launch an aggressive play on you because his CA Kit happens to be full, and so he has an opening to bomb you and stealth disengage to get away with it. Or if it was a GS Axe/Axe wielding Druid, he'll be able to go in for a Soulbeast like burst and be able to stealth disengage once to get away with it, before it's going to take him an inordinate amount of time to refill that bar again. But I am absolutely guaranteeing you, that if you were to try and 1v1 these Druid builds like this, you'd notice that the normal average encounter with them, will result in you being able to kill the Druid before it ever gets to use its CA Kit even once. <- And this is why Druids get pigeonholed into Wilderness/Beastmaster for that regen, growth, troll.

> >

> > Telling you right now that anyone who runs Druid without Wilderness/Beastmastery is hindering themselves. If they want to stray from these mechanics, they will have a much stronger performance in every way by running Core or Soulbeast. Any Druid spec that is not Wilderness/Beastmastery is garbage compared to Core/Soulbeast. This really is unfortunately true. And even Wilderness/Beastmastery variants, just don't perform well after pet nerf and Ancestral Grace nuke. If we can get a bit of nerfing to DPS power creep and/or buffing to Druid in general, it could be a contender again. But as of now, the class is completely mechanically and statistically impaired compared to other Bruiser specs that exist right now.

>

>

Hmmmm ok well this is a lot... and i do think that druid is not in its best spot that it could be in however.... (clearing some of your part to save some page space)

Part of me thinks you only or mostly are looking at druid with the aspect of it not playing a support role which is what it should be seen as. Druids issues likely are also the fact that anet has actively encouraged people to think that being offensive is the only means of staying alive which was a bad mistake on their part and why this games balance has gotten to the garbage state that its in now.

 

Ideally not every support should be a heavy bruiser, lets get that right.

IF your idea is that druid needs to be a busier then i dont agree. IF your kit offers higher healing or boon potential along with decent disengage potential you realistically should not be an offensive bruiser support. IF you get focused then you get focused. More supports actually need to be vulnerable like this and should not have extreme levels or methods of being able to solo kill perma sustain against others especially if they have good disengage tools already. The perfect balance would be supporting others while those others peel for you in the event you start to get focused. Not just giving the ranger an elite that just takes core ranger and gives it better sustain through disengage when used selfishly. This how a support becomes a broken offensive role with too much sustain.

 

The moment a support tries to step too far out role it should have very obvious exploitable weaknesses that cant be covered by certain traits or utilities.

This is the whole problem with support elites and support traitlines in this game in general. People use them selfishly and in a lot of cases they offer more benefit than the standard defensive line or tools for the base profession should offer which quickly leads to them being seen as broken.

 

Warrior tactics rework which is not an exception to this. People dont use tactics for support they use it for selfish sustain over defense.

Look at how firebrand is now and how its being complained about constantly because people use its supportive power offensively in a selfish manner instead of a true supportive one.

 

Dont doubt the idea that if revs could have used ventari to be a hyper aggressive bruiser or offensive role that they wouldnt have done it. Anet actually designed rev in a way that it cant do that without making a realistic trade that would give it a clear cut weakness for trying to use support tools while also being heavily offensive so they dont do it. IF ventari is used to realistically support it can do well and we have started to see some ventari / renegade or jails users come up now but if you try to flip the script and keep your offensive power and just use the support stuff for extra sustain it does not work very well.

 

Durid's issue is not that it should be a bruiser that can contend with the damage from holos and other things by being a tough fighter. ITs problem was that it was allowed to be bruiser in the first place and people ideals as a support out the window because anet allowed you to play in a more offensive role than a supportive one. Anet failed to target the right things to enforce players to use it as a main support role which lead to the over nerfing of some of its tools and skills in its kit.

 

Things that i agree with you could be improved for druid are

- having a lower cd on CA access

- upping the healing potential on the healing skills inside the kit a bit to be worth more with investment (even more so for outgoing targets and not just the druid itself)

- Being able to use it without a full tank of celestial gas but still require some minimum amount

 

Things that i do not agree with

- allowing it to be a bruiser or bunker period. There are other professions and elites better attuned to that role that are not also under the aspect of being a support. IF you want to be a brusier with solid self sustain then self sustain trait lines and skills should encourage that not support lines.

- focusing on the idea that it must have "good damage" or high offensive pressure when realistically it does not need these things for how i think anet wants it to be played.

 

 

IF anet could find a way to make druid good at healing and support with utility and minor offensive things like roots and some cc etc thats totally fine but when you start to cross that line of well i want to be a dps busier /bunker druid thats just as good as a core ranger but better because of x or y support thing i can use selfishly to my advantage thats a problem imo.

 

It would be nice if supports are all designed in such away that people naturally learn to watch their backs even in pug games. Seeing a druid, firebrand, scourge, or tempest on your team should automatically encourage you to want to peel for them but instead its more so looked at as "They can take care of themselves." Especially the ones like firebrand atm and how scourge was ages ago.

 

IF you want to be a dps druid that should be fine but it should come with the packaged deal of being shut down quicker than a pure support or bunker with no support aspects in its kit.

 

All supports should ideally be that way even looking at slightly more offensive ones like firebrand and scourge. We have options in the game now so there is no reason for anet to try and keep a good chunk of these elites in the idea of build how you want to unfortunately they have been pulling away from this for some time now. Especially the ones deemed to be supports which are some of the most problematic ones in the games history. Chrono, Tempest, Durid, Scourge, Firebrand to be put bluntly.

 

TLDR:

I agree with reasoning number 1 damage generally around the game is too high.

I some what disagree with some parts of with reasoning number 2. Lets not look at druid as a offensive player and look at how anet should make it a true support allowing people to build around deferent methods of support that are not being side node bunker or a brusier that easily can kill a pure offensive role because sustain from support aspects are there.

 

I would have loved to see more supportive options like focusing on condi clear or converting condis too boons, outgoing Boon application, raw outgoing healing, outgoing mobility improvement for their allies. etc... Not how can we make druid a support but also give it enough dps to kill /outlast the majority of things that walk up to it while it solo guards home or mid point.

 

You dont have to agree with this of course.

Going back into the main topic In the case of core ranger and soul beast core ranger is just strong as is and soulbeast makes ranger too mechanically advantages against too many situations. Like it or not Ranger/soulbeast or boon beast is part of the damage is too high problem also that you pointed out for druid.

[aelska.4609]

Two questions:

* Is that a paint chart ?

* Have you forgotten about the pet ? I am not scared about the ranger, it's the pet that's freaking me out

[shinta.8906]

Gerald was right

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"aelska.4609" said:

> Two questions:

> * Is that a paint chart ?

> * Have you forgotten about the pet ? I am not scared about the ranger, it's the pet that's freaking me out

 

That is indeed a paint chart that was drawn up in like 5 minutes, yes.

 

Pets? I am not writing a guide on "how to beat a ranger pet" ^^

 

 

[Swagatron.8065]

I legit don't understand how ranger can get nerfed when @"Trevor Boyer.6524" and @"shadowpass.4236" are on the ranger forum team.

 

@"JETWING.2759"

If you're running Sic 'Em and Signet of the Hunt you would get obliterated by any competent player.

[Dantheman.3589]

This guide is pure gold

[lightstalker.1498]

The way to beat rangers is right here with poor grammar and horribly formatted paragraphs about how OP they are.

[JETWING.2759]

> @"Swagatron.8065" said:

> I legit don't understand how ranger can get nerfed when @"Trevor Boyer.6524" and @"shadowpass.4236" are on the ranger forum team.

>

> @"JETWING.2759"

> If you're running Sic 'Em and Signet of the Hunt you would get obliterated by any competent player.

 

Few times, yes!

Most times, not!

 

The competent player needs come close with Mirage, Thief, Herald or Weaver... In others scenaries i kill, hold or escape.

[sneakytails.5629]

I tried not to laugh too hard at first when diving into that block of text and getting to the weapon comparison.

 

Ranger is pretty vulnerable to CC, I think ranger is in a good spot right now, but I agree with the idea that there are some outliers like on all classes.**_ I actually think keeping ranger stun-breaks on the low side serves as a balance against its mobility, evades, and stealth.

_**

My real problem is smoke scale, (and pet skills in general) and how its clearly being spammed, and that kind of sloppy, spammy game-play is just rewarded too much.

 

I also think killing the Rangers pet should really be meaningful and actually be worth doing as real counterplay. There should be a super steep penalty to letting your pet die.

 

Also Warrior rifle is pathetic in every way to Ranger Longbow, and the Ranger has an advantage simply based on that alone. Have you ever tried to land a Warrior Rifle 5 on a Soulbeast? I am guessing no, or you would never dream of that comparison (Longbow knock-back is light-years better). It's so bad that the Ranger can simply just auto attack the Warrior and not risk getting hit based on its 300 range advantage alone.

 

Outside of that laughable comparison in weapons you did bring up good points though.

 

This whole we can be laz,y and spammy with our pets bs needs to end though. Otherwise, keep Stab and Stunbreaks low on Ranger and its balanced.

 

 

 

 

[ugrakarma.9416]

a huge wall of text to say how to beat a class is a sign theres something really wrong with that. thats why get feedback from top tier player leads to a biased balance.

 

beat a ranger is just hit him!

[Tycura.1982]

Predictable combos, cruddy pet ai, floaty moves with bugs galore. Reliance on RNG mechanics to stay relevant. Primarily single target but is outdone by DE at range and Weaver/Warrior on nodes. It baffles me that people have problems with ranger.

 

Take the plasma pill.

[Zephoid.4263]

"just los" would be great, but a lot of these maps are designed with very large open areas that have to be traversed. Either cap or areas leading to cap. Keep needing to LOS? You have to leave cap and let it get decapped. Foefire mid and capricorn mid are both great examples. 'wait 10s' is completely absurd comment, as a point can be decapped and capped again in that time period.

 

You also outline one of the big problems with rangers. Their exorbitant damage output at range compared to literally every other class. No one else comes close except maybe deadeye (and they are immobile for the cost of most of that damage). Almost every other class needs to be in melee or they can't use 95% of their class features. Only thief and mesmer have any chance of engaging another class at range with the hope of killing them. Every other class has such anemic ranged weapons and so many class features that require close proximity that they have to close. Ranger longbow is so stacked with non-conditional raw damage and cc that its absurd when compared to other ranged weapons. If they aren't going to buff other ranged weapons, ranger needs a hit somewhere on longbow.

 

I'm plat every season and i don't particularly have a problem with rangers as guard, but playing scourge before the nerf there was literally nothing you could do. Their only defense, corrosive poison cloud, was changed to a block instead of projectile destruction. I find all the zerker burst longbow rangers to be a nuance more than an actual positive influence on game wins. Much the same as old DE was before it got nerfed into the ground. Everyone complained, but it wasn't super dominant at higher rankings.

 

My biggest problem with ranger: **why is Point Blank Shot a knockback at 1200**? look at the words that are using to explain the skill. Why is this not a 600 range skill or why is the knockback removed beyond a certain range?

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@"Zephoid.4263"

 

5 out of 9 classes in this game now have access to abundant levels of stealth. A Ranger cannot target you with a longbow while in stealth. Other classes that do not have stealth, have very powerful gap closing skills. Let's take a look at what other classes can do to chase Rangers:

 

* Herald = Phase Traversal - Unrelenting Assault

* Spellbreaker = GS 3 "evade" - GS 5 - Bull's Charge "which is also an evade" - Rampage 3 & 5 gap closers

* Guardians = Judge's Intervention - Sword 2 - Dragonhunter's even get long range F1 Pull CC and additional gap closer with F2

* Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye = This can chase & catch & disengage anything, through means of mass teleport effects & lots of stealth

* Holosmith = It has frequent access to 6s stealth, lots of hard & soft CC play incuding immob, surprisingly effective chase potential with forge. It's not that it can move faster than other things, it's that if it's already on you, you can't so easily disengage forge or the engi weapon skills/tool belt, there are too many hard & soft CCs to simply "get away from the Holo" and even if you have stealth, he slaps around reveals.

* All Necros = Yeah, these lose to Ranger at range, not gonna avoid that fact. But such is the case in any game where the slowest most powerful melee range is vs. the fastest highest mobility ranged. This is just how it works. But as I stated earlier in the l2p section, Necros trash Rangers in close range if they utilize LOS. People need to stop acting like LOS isn't a thing that is all over the place. At the bottom of this post, I'll point out of very convenient obvious LOS spot that people ignore.

* Mesmer/Mirage = Massive stealth access, Massive mobility, Maximum slipperiness. Condi Mirage in every way counters all Ranger builds. Not only is a Condi Mirage hard to hit in general, but condis are every Ranger's weakness in the long run. The thing is, Condi Mirage can quite seriously kite behind LOS nearly 100% of the time vs. a Ranger, and still beat it by spaming clones/illusions/phantasm from behind LOS. So this class can not only chase and get into range with the Ranger easily without being hit, but it can also guarantee almost a 100% win rate during kite fights vs. a Ranger.

* Weaver = Nope, it's Necro like in terms of speed. This cannot catch a good Ranger, but it is tanky enough to approach it head on while face tanking damage through evades, dodges, reflects, mass sustain value, and then get on a node with it and still counter the Ranger even while burning resources to get to it. <- It's true.

 

In all honesty my good dude, the only things that cannot chase or get away from a Ranger, are Necros & Weavers. The Necro finds his hard counter in Ranger, sucks to be him but that's how it is. Weaver on the other hand, good ones can only be beaten by full on glass cannon DPS Soulbeasts, who can output enough damage to transcend the sustain factor of the Weaver. They have a short opportunity to potentially gut the Weaver off a node, if it fails, the Soulbeast can't stay or he'll die. He has to run. But a Core Ranger based on sustain? Nah it'll never pump out the DPS values to actually kill a plat 1-2+ Weaver on a node. A good Ranger may be able to survive and stall for a bit, but he's not gonna kill that Weaver.

 

Yeah so about those LOS spots that people seem to think don't exist, you know what, I'm going to take the time tonight to make a video recording that displays every practical to use LOS spot in every map. I'm not even being salty about this, it's just that people seem to seriously believe that LOS spots are far away from nodes and rare or something, which couldn't be further from the truth. As a Ranger main, I'll show you all of the LOS spots that are commonly used by plat 1+ players to avoid ranged bursting.

 

Give me 24 hours, maybe less.

 

[Avatar.3568]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > > > > > Just because you CAN beat it and it isn't the **strongest** spec out there doesn't mean it's in a good spot or that it's enjoyable to play against. They are hard as hell to pressure or lock down due to all their stealth access, movement skills, blocks ect. They have wayyyy too much CC for being a highly mobile profession with the best single target ranged weapon in the game. Dumb amount of boon access but this is just the whole state of the game right now. Ranger is one of those professions that if they are good you just can't kill them. Also, maul is on a very short cooldown and hits for very high damage. As they say, the best defense is a good offense. It's hard to fight a ranger in melee range when you some how have to mitigate 8-10k hits every 3.5 seconds while hoping you don't get gazelled or smokescale CC'ed.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > All that being said, Ranger isn't the absolute hardest thing to fight. I still groan every time I have to fight one though.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 8-10k hits every 3.5 seconds ?????

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Please, link me which ranger builds you're fighting against that are both incredibly survivable and have enough damage to 2 tap people in 7 seconds.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dude, I know very well how survivable and how much damage ranger can dish out. **YOU** schooled me in game some time ago on how best to play it. Ranger has great survivability as long as you use your active defenses correctly, you can't face tank like a warrior obviously. When you have a constant 25 might stacks though you can dish out some pretty mean damage even if you don't build full glass. Idk why you're acting like 8-10k on maul is a lot, that's just normal.

> > > > >

> > > > > I run a relatively squishy build and my Mauls rarely hit for more than 5k (average 3.4k). Boonbeast builds don't even stack might outside of SotP so it's not a "constant 25 might stacks" either.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'll say it again. Please link me whatever ranger build you're fighting against that can consistently Maul for 8-10k and are extremely difficult to kill. 8-10k Mauls are NOT normal. If you link me a build that has all of the stuff you just claimed, I'll change my mind. Until that happens, no one (myself included) is going to believe you.

> > > >

> > > > Aight

> > >

> > > [Watch.](

)

> > >

> > > I run this build but on an amulet with less crit chance.

> >

> > Nice

>

> Man it's kitten hilarious talking with some of you people.

>

> Survivable Soulbeast builds two tapping people with "normal" 8-10k Mauls and perma 25 might?

>

> Link everyone the build you were fighting against or you're just another person spewing nonsense on the forums.

 

My soulbeast those, when enemy has no protection, easily 8-10k dmg, sometimes even higher, 25 stacks might can be produced but not a long time and it has high "CD" to reproduce, 3-8 stacks are more common to have it in fight.

 

But my trade off is, that I have only 1 stunbreak.

 

Held der Zeit EU, constant Plat 2 player