Revenant Suggestions after Balance Update

[DonArkanio.6419]

Hey there,

 

So, Balance Update is live and I have to admit, I really enjoy the pace of the combat as it's a lot more fluid now. CC chaining is starting to be a bit problematic, but I guess Devs will address that issue.

 

In current Balance Update Revenant lost some important traits as well as gained new ones that seem to be pretty fun and useful. In this post I want to say what I think should be changed about the current Rev in order to make it more true to its identity, Energy costs, stunbreaks, Shiro, Jalis and Ventari.

 

## **Shiro and Energy Costs; Riposting Shadows and Phase Traversal**

 

I think we can agree that Shiro is pretty much a PvP-designed Legend. Since 2015 a lot of his Utilities' effects changed, be it cost or effects. Today, we're at the point where the Enrgy costs make up for how overloaded Shiro's utilities are + having spammable 600 range dodge with condition removal is a bit too much.

Riposting Shadows now costs 40 Energy along the already very expensive kit; 35, 50, -8/s

Shiro is currently in a pretty weird spot where his Skills in PvP take **130 Energy** + more with Upkeep. So, Core Revenant can get up to 100 Energy after swapping legends. Rev with E-Specs can gain up to 75.

 

##Shiro

 

My suggestions:

**Riposting Shadows**

- Energy Cost: 40 ->30

- Fury is granted only on successful Stunbreak

 

**Phase Traversal**

- Energy cost: 35 -> 20

- Range: 1200 -> 900

- Quickness is granted only on successful hit

- No longer grants _Unblockable_ buff

 

**Enchanted Daggers**

- Now grants 2x of _Unblockable_ buff

- Initial healing ratio: 0.25 -> 0.3

- Interval removed

 

**Impossible Odds**

- No longer grants secondary strike after attack

- Upkeep cost: -8 -> -6

- Now grants 2x of _Unblockable_ every 1s

- Still grants 50% increased movement speed

_MH Sword Autoattack is 0.5s, meaning your hits are unblockable and deal 25% increased damage_

 

**Brutal Blade (2nd AA)**

- Cast time: 3/4s -> 1/2s

 

**Jade Winds**

- Energy cost: still 50

- Now grants 1s of Quickness per enemy hit

 

 

Whatever wasn't mentioned in the skills, stays the same. These changes bring Shiro's Utility bar to 105 Energy + Upkeep cost. I believe that it's still a Rio much. But this skillset gives Shiro the feeling of unstoppability. I thought that reducing the range of his main in- and out- skills can make Revenants less slippery as it can be very frustrating to play against.

 

##**Ventari's Protective Solace**

 

So, since forever the Ventari mains asked for a Stunbreak. Recent Balance Update hit Ventari pretty hard in terms of competitive play as it doesn't have the ability to break out of stun. Revenants after swapping legends are locked there for 9s, we can't do anything about being stunned while channeling Ventari.

 

Suggestion:

**Puryfying Essence**

- Energy Cost: 25 -> 30

- Now breaks stuns

 

 

##**Jalis and Retribution**

 

At the moment Jalis seems fine. His kit along the Retribution traitline were greatly improved. There are still some traits that could use more love because it's Retaliation is outshined by other defense-oriented Traits. At least that's my experience.

 

 

Suggestions:

**Rite of the Great Dwarf**

- Now grants 50% Damage Reduction to both Damage and Condis

 

**Versed in Stone (major trait)**

- Now gain Toughness based on a percentage of Power: 10%

 

 

##**Hammer and Coalescence of Ruin**

 

Well, we Hammer had a very rough time recently and I think that these changes don't hit the spot. Coalescence of Ruin is a pretty awful skill now. The audio is missing, it doesn't follow the terrain properly, and is no longer target skill. I think there are better ways to fix this skill.

 

Suggestion:

**Coalescence of Ruin**

- Now uses Radius instead of Range = 3x400 Radius AoE

- Instead of expanding linearly, the skill expands circularly

- Add audio to the skill

_New visual would be needed, but this would open more options for Hammer builds._ AoE CoR pairs nicely with Renegade's Summons, Jade Winds, Forced Engagement or Call to Anguish.

 

**Hammer Bolt**

- Add "Pierces" tooltip

 

##**Surge of the Mists**

Add a prettier wind-up animation please. The current one is very awful and hard to read.

 

##**Renegade**

 

What's the Renegade?

 

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

So, here are my suggestions. I hope you find them fair. Shiro was a bit tricky because it has so much stuff and it's pretty hard to change something about him without sacrifices. Feel free to post your thoughts and I'm more than happy for a constructive discussion.

I feel like Revenant is in a good spot at the moment. However, there are still some things that could be tweaked.

 

 

[zaswer.5246]

Dont take the second strike from imposible odds or revenant is going to be completely dead in pve

[zaswer.5246]

I would choose having a new skill added to shiro that actualy deals dmg so we arent stuck in shiro IO +aa + sword skills and have some other choices .

Also i think the 2 other shiro skills can be made to work like the old ranger sword 3(first click makes you flee from the enemy and with the second activation you tp to the enemy and hit it)

That way the skill will be worth 35 energy because as it is now i dont think its worth the energy cost of both skills compared with the efects

[DonArkanio.6419]

> @"zaswer.5246" said:

> Dont take the second strike from imposible odds or revenant is going to be completely dead in pve

 

True, haven't thought about the PvE aspect od IO. Honestly I really don't like that skill as it's just meant to be a flat damage tool. Maybe on PvE IO's damage could be increased to +50% to match the current 0.55 damage modifier.

 

As for Ranger Sword. It's a cool idea, and would free some space on the skill-bar.

[Yasai.3549]

I would like Impossible Odds to have Superspeed back.

And make the Doublestrike into a Siphon instead, and not some baby siphon like Battle Scars, but actual Siphon like Soulcleave's

 

My opinion on Stunbreaks : All Legends deserve a cheap 30 Energy Stunbreak.

 

If there is a need to bring the power down, so be it.

 

Here are just some ideas :

 

**Jalis**

I never liked Forced Engagement's slow projectiles.

It never lands, or when it does, it reflects and hits the user instead.

**I would change Forced Engagement to a Stunbreak and a 400 range Taunt.**

 

**Shiro**

Riposting Shadows does too much.

Fury + Endurance + Evade?

**I think Endurance can be cut out of it, and gain Vigor instead.**

Tbh a Stunbreak + Evade is already plenty strong.

 

**Ventari**

Poor boy doesn't even have a stunbreak.

**Give him one with Natural Harmony.**

 

**Mallyx**

His stunbreak is the only one which seems fair and balanced.

 

[zaswer.5246]

I dont know how battle scars are in pvp but i can tell you that in pve thevnew trait dance of the dead is better than swift termination

[lodjur.1284]

Remove the condi transfer from herald (and permeating pestilence). A class with resistance shouldn't have condi transfers.

 

Buff battle scars a bit in WvW, cool mechanic, terribly low numbers, maybe add more ways of obtaining it too (and increase maximum stacks to like 50). 60ish lifesteal is ridiculously low, 100-150 would be reasonable, 200 would be strong.

[Raknar.4735]

I still think renegade bow needs a rework in PvP.

[zaswer.5246]

In my opinion bow should be like trident, i mean the whole kalla legend looks like a hybrid legend that can either go power or condi (renegade mechanic gives both ferocity and condi ) so bow should follow the same route (in kalla gives bleed ,mallynx torment ,shiro vulne,and jalis the one that reduces the enemy dmg and ventary just spawn orbs as usual)

This way pve players will finaly get a power weapon to swich from swords and pvp might have more options too

[Josh.4132]

 

 

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> Remove the condi transfer from herald (and permeating pestilence). A class with resistance shouldn't have condi transfers.

>

But this transfer has already been sneakily nerfed in the patch. They gave it a new name sure but they also made it transfer 2 condis instead of 3. When you think about how many cleanses rev has in general, I think this trait is fair. Also bare in mind that this transfer only works in melee range and is on a legend swap cd. As for a class with resistance, the only realistic way to get it is through using Pain absorption and maybe the trait, which still is less than 5 seconds of resistance and it just so happens to be a only stun break on demon, so it’s not exactly like you can stack this resistance reliably.

 

 

[lodjur.1284]

> @"Josh.4132" said:

>

>

> > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > Remove the condi transfer from herald (and permeating pestilence). A class with resistance shouldn't have condi transfers.

> >

> But this transfer has already been sneakily nerfed in the patch. They gave it a new name sure but they also made it transfer 2 condis instead of 3. When you think about how many cleanses rev has in general, I think this trait is fair. Also bare in mind that this transfer only works in melee range and is on a legend swap cd. As for a class with resistance, the only realistic way to get it is through using Pain absorption and maybe the trait, which still is less than 5 seconds of resistance and it just so happens to be a only stun break on demon, so it’s not exactly like you can stack this resistance reliably.

>

>

 

I mostly talk about about true nature - demon. Permeating pestilence is less annoying. The problem isn't rev being able to deal with condi (which condi rev has never struggled with). It's getting hit by like 30 torment and 20 burn in one untelegraphed hit (real example from yesterday). If these things cleared condis or had a cap on the amount of stacks transferring they'd just be like any strong clear which is okay

[Josh.4132]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> >

> >

>

> I mostly talk about about true nature - demon. Permeating pestilence is less annoying. The problem isn't rev being able to deal with condi (which condi rev has never struggled with). It's getting hit by like 30 torment and 20 burn in one untelegraphed hit (real example from yesterday). If these things cleared condis or had a cap on the amount of stacks transferring they'd just be like any strong clear which is okay

 

I agree with you here :)

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > @"Josh.4132" said:

> >

> >

> > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > Remove the condi transfer from herald (and permeating pestilence). A class with resistance shouldn't have condi transfers.

> > >

> > But this transfer has already been sneakily nerfed in the patch. They gave it a new name sure but they also made it transfer 2 condis instead of 3. When you think about how many cleanses rev has in general, I think this trait is fair. Also bare in mind that this transfer only works in melee range and is on a legend swap cd. As for a class with resistance, the only realistic way to get it is through using Pain absorption and maybe the trait, which still is less than 5 seconds of resistance and it just so happens to be a only stun break on demon, so it’s not exactly like you can stack this resistance reliably.

> >

> >

>

> I mostly talk about about true nature - demon. Permeating pestilence is less annoying. The problem isn't rev being able to deal with condi (which condi rev has never struggled with). It's getting hit by like 30 torment and 20 burn in one untelegraphed hit (real example from yesterday). If these things cleared condis or had a cap on the amount of stacks transferring they'd just be like any strong clear which is okay

 

All Revs have struggled with condi, even condi Rev. Has he got resist on? Pffft, no problem, boon strip, steal, or corrupt takes care of that, and there’s plenty of those skills to go around. Just for an example, if I’m running a condi class, I will always, ALWAYS, target the Rev because I know he doesn’t have anywhere near enough to clear them.

 

As for your example, sure, that happens on occasion , but that’s a stars aligning in the right place at the right time kind of stuff and doesn’t happen all the time. Usually, condi cleansing takes care of that regardless, unless of course your running a Rev, which see above in that case.

[lodjur.1284]

> @"Lonewolf Kai.3682" said:

> > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > @"Josh.4132" said:

> > >

> > >

> > > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > > Remove the condi transfer from herald (and permeating pestilence). A class with resistance shouldn't have condi transfers.

> > > >

> > > But this transfer has already been sneakily nerfed in the patch. They gave it a new name sure but they also made it transfer 2 condis instead of 3. When you think about how many cleanses rev has in general, I think this trait is fair. Also bare in mind that this transfer only works in melee range and is on a legend swap cd. As for a class with resistance, the only realistic way to get it is through using Pain absorption and maybe the trait, which still is less than 5 seconds of resistance and it just so happens to be a only stun break on demon, so it’s not exactly like you can stack this resistance reliably.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I mostly talk about about true nature - demon. Permeating pestilence is less annoying. The problem isn't rev being able to deal with condi (which condi rev has never struggled with). It's getting hit by like 30 torment and 20 burn in one untelegraphed hit (real example from yesterday). If these things cleared condis or had a cap on the amount of stacks transferring they'd just be like any strong clear which is okay

>

> All Revs have struggled with condi, even condi Rev. Has he got resist on? Pffft, no problem, boon strip, steal, or corrupt takes care of that, and there’s plenty of those skills to go around. Just for an example, if I’m running a condi class, I will always, ALWAYS, target the Rev because I know he doesn’t have anywhere near enough to clear them.

>

> As for your example, sure, that happens on occasion , but that’s a stars aligning in the right place at the right time kind of stuff and doesn’t happen all the time. Usually, condi cleansing takes care of that regardless, unless of course your running a Rev, which see above in that case.

 

I currently must play condi rev, even without herald it's very strong against condi. Transfer herald is fairly common atm

 

The transfer thing happens on a regular basis because it's very easy

 

Step 1. Play condi herald

Step 2. Outnumber your enemy

Step 3. Spam som pain absorption

Step 4. Hit true nature - demon and stance swap

[Yasai.3549]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

 

> Step 1. Play condi herald

> Step 2. Outnumber your enemy

> Step 3. Spam som pain absorption

> Step 4. Hit true nature - demon and stance swap

 

Yep this is what I do on my Bunker Herald for blobing.

 

I once tanked 40 stacks of Burning under Burning oil and transferred it to people behind the gate repairing.

Omegalul.

 

 

[lodjur.1284]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > @"lodjur.1284" said:

>

> > Step 1. Play condi herald

> > Step 2. Outnumber your enemy

> > Step 3. Spam som pain absorption

> > Step 4. Hit true nature - demon and stance swap

>

> Yep this is what I do on my Bunker Herald for blobing.

>

> I once tanked 40 stacks of Burning under Burning oil and transferred it to people behind the gate repairing.

> Omegalul.

>

>

 

While hilarious it is absolutely terrible design

[Buran.3796]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

 

> I mostly talk about about true nature - demon. Permeating pestilence is less annoying. The problem isn't rev being able to deal with condi (which condi rev has never struggled with). It's getting hit by like 30 torment and 20 burn in one untelegraphed hit (real example from yesterday). If these things cleared condis or had a cap on the amount of stacks transferring they'd just be like any strong clear which is okay

 

As happened with the trait wich caused instant damage on legend swap under certain amount of energy (which should never been deleted) this transfer lack of "call" should be easy to fix: put a clear visual and audio signal when the swap triggers the effect and delay the application 0.5, 0.75 or 1 second so the enemy knows what's going to come and can react to (which anyway would be great to force to spent them evades, iframes, etc).

[lodjur.1284]

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> > @"lodjur.1284" said:

>

> > I mostly talk about about true nature - demon. Permeating pestilence is less annoying. The problem isn't rev being able to deal with condi (which condi rev has never struggled with). It's getting hit by like 30 torment and 20 burn in one untelegraphed hit (real example from yesterday). If these things cleared condis or had a cap on the amount of stacks transferring they'd just be like any strong clear which is okay

>

> As happened with the trait wich caused instant damage on legend swap under certain amount of energy (which should never been deleted) this transfer lack of "call" should be easy to fix: put a clear visual and audio signal when the swap triggers the effect and delay the application 0.5, 0.75 or 1 second so the enemy knows what's going to come and can react to (which anyway would be great to force to spent them evades, iframes, etc).

 

That would at least alleviate the issue. I personally would also want a cap of like 5 stacks or something as getting 30+ stacks from one attack is ridiculous either way.

[Buran.3796]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

 

> That would at least alleviate the issue. I personally would also want a cap of like 5 stacks or something as getting 30+ stacks from one attack is ridiculous either way.

 

...So piling up 30 stacks of condis on a single target in PvP/WvW is fine but throwing them back not? Maybe the source of those condi stacks should have noticed the resistance boon in the target before spamming all his skills on him. But I'll concede: I agree that is too strong, not because the volley back is undeserved but because a lot of times the transfer happens accidentally just because you need to swap reset your depleted energy levels, so sometimes in skirmishes the Rev nukes the entire opposition surrounding him not due a planned move but just because luck, and the game shouldn'r reward luck as a basis.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"zaswer.5246" said:

> Dont take the second strike from imposible odds or revenant is going to be completely dead in pve

 

It won't be. Alacrigade is support so high DPS isn't expected and they'll still have a place. The heal variant isn't affected. Condi ren has a build variant that uses shiro but it's not required. In open world it doesn't really matter but using Jalis is probably comparable.

 

 

[lodjur.1284]

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> > @"lodjur.1284" said:

>

> > That would at least alleviate the issue. I personally would also want a cap of like 5 stacks or something as getting 30+ stacks from one attack is ridiculous either way.

>

> ...So piling up 30 stacks of condis on a single target in PvP/WvW is fine but throwing them back not? Maybe the source of those condi stacks should have noticed the resistance boon in the target before spamming all his skills on him. But I'll concede: I agree that is too strong, not because the volley back is undeserved but because a lot of times the transfer happens accidentally just because you need to swap reset your depleted energy levels, so sometimes in skirmishes the Rev nukes the entire opposition surrounding him not due a planned move but just because luck, and the game shouldn'r reward luck as a basis.

 

First off, condi rev has pain absorption and demon facet, both actually pull condis from allies. Let's say I hit 6 enemies with mace 3, one of them a condi rev, it uses pain absorption once, now it has 24 stacks of torment, it swaps near me (or someone else) who now gets 24 stacks placed on them with no tell.

 

Plenty of people don't even seem to attempt to use any offensive skills when running the build, just spamming pain absorption, making their resistance fairly close to permanent.

 

Also someone if stands in your stuff long enough 30 stacks is okay. 30 stacks for just being near them when they pop off true nature demon or swap isn't okay.

[zaswer.5246]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"zaswer.5246" said:

> > Dont take the second strike from imposible odds or revenant is going to be completely dead in pve

>

> It won't be. Alacrigade is support so high DPS isn't expected and they'll still have a place. The heal variant isn't affected. Condi ren has a build variant that uses shiro but it's not required. In open world it doesn't really matter but using Jalis is probably comparable.

>

>

 

I meant the power revenant would die in pve .

Im not asking for revenant to be the best, not even meta i just think that we have a revenant that suposedly should be the most versatile one (we have 6 leyends to choose ) and on the contrary we ,ta least in pve , alwais end up using the same skills , that are not even as much as the other classes because in shiro the only full dmg skill is IO and it is more like a sigil than anything and also we obly have one set for power weapons ,dual swords , so if anet takes away IO what could they give to make the exchange fair? .

Also i think that better than IO they could take the other 2 skills and mix them together , it would make almost no difference in pvp or wvw (in fact it would be better because the energy cost would be lower ) and would free a slot for revs to have other skill that could help us both in pvp, wvw and pve .

Also i think kalla is not being used to its full potential .

Kalla mech gives us feroc and condi dmg , and bow is probably the best weapon we have right now that can get the trident treatment (in the condi builds you have hamer y axe to swap and usualy use bow on mallynx for pve build while in pve as i have heard is not a good weapon so might as well be a good oportunity to remodel it a bit in pvp so it works better there) as for renegade traits im fine with what we have already , maybe the trait that increases bleed dmg could simply increase bow dmg and bleed duration to have a bit of both and the trait that buffs kallas fervor effects could give a bit more feroc (60 per stack in stead of 50 could be fine).

I dont think anything of the avobe changes would make revenant broken but it could give us more options .

Now a message directly for Anet , great job in the last patch ,seriusly , i think thats the way to go , not everithing needs to be meta but the freedom we have to choose classes and builds for each of them is what i think makes the game different , so keep up the good work. And ty for the effors

[Julius Seizure.4985]

I made this suggestion in the thread about Battle Scars, and I still feel this is the best solution. At certain thresholds of Battle Scar stacks, additional counters should be spent. This would double or triple the current siphon, bit necessitate build up of stacks and taking the Grand Master to really be effective.

 

•Above 10 stacks: spend 2 Battle Scar counters per target

 

•Above 20 stacks: spend 3 Battle Scars counters per target

 

The end result is that Siphon could be double or triple strength in very particular situations, and allows for counterplay as well.

[Jthug.9506]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"zaswer.5246" said:

> > Dont take the second strike from imposible odds or revenant is going to be completely dead in pve

>

> It won't be. Alacrigade is support so high DPS isn't expected and they'll still have a place. The heal variant isn't affected. Condi ren has a build variant that uses shiro but it's not required. In open world it doesn't really matter but using Jalis is probably comparable.

>

>

 

That's fine and all but I really want actual power rev dps to be a thing in raids at some point. It's fun as hell to play and I want it!

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Jthug.9506" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"zaswer.5246" said:

> > > Dont take the second strike from imposible odds or revenant is going to be completely dead in pve

> >

> > It won't be. Alacrigade is support so high DPS isn't expected and they'll still have a place. The heal variant isn't affected. Condi ren has a build variant that uses shiro but it's not required. In open world it doesn't really matter but using Jalis is probably comparable.

> >

> >

>

> That's fine and all but I really want actual power rev dps to be a thing in raids at some point. It's fun as hell to play and I want it!

 

That’ll require rev to have an actual power DPS elite spec.