Please remove the stomp from the mount....

[Teratus.2859]

> @"SWI.4127" said:

> > @"Katrina.8702" said:

> > I just don’t get the notion of smaller groups having no chance with mount stomps. If anything, at least based on my experience, the mount stomp gives smaller groups a much better chance as you can finish the downs immediately and turn the fight around. It really can go both ways as a mechanic that is available to everyone equally. A better group with better execution wins the fight with or without the mount stomp, imho.

>

> Which group can afford to have people standing off to the side not participating in the fight while still being able to generate downed states? I can tell you most of the time it's not the smaller group.

>

 

Is that really a bad thing?

You'd think a smaller group would be glad to have a number of players on the larger force actively not participating in the fight.

If the smaller group is better organized and not severely outnumbered then they could potentially turn the tide thanks in part to those choosing to stay mounted and not participate.

 

Same Banner and down pull mechanics work for all sides so if you're paying attention and quick enough you can pull or insta rally an ally about to get mauled.

Granted most are not going to do this but they can.. the option exists.

Soon as that Warclaw enters the battle though it's either going to pounce on someone and dismount or it's likely going to get dismounted by damage.

If they hold out until a clear winner is established then frankly them insta finishing players has no impact on the battle what so ever anyway.

 

I honestly don't see why some think this is such a big deal, specially after Warclaw has been nerfed so much already.

Take any more away and you might as well just remove the mount entirely.. I know that's what some people actually want since the Warclaw hurts their favourite builds but frankly that kind of attitude will keep WvW in a perpetual stagnating state forever since everything new will either be pointlessly useless or will change things so much people would rather complain than adapt.

Again harkening back to the HoT example in my last post.. "it's too hard, everything needs nerfing" basically.

 

Try playing a Ranger with a longbow, you'll be licking your lips every time you see a Warclaw, Quickness Rapid fire can blitz them out of existence in about a second flat.. and with the Super speed from Zepher, that cat aint going to outrun you before you take it down.

You only need to judge your distance and time your assault so you know it can't evade the rapid fire, and that's very easy to do.

[crepuscular.9047]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Vova.2640" said:

> > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > Nah, just remove downstate instead.

> >

> > I get that at this point this is a meme but removing downsate would actually kill the game mode.

> > No downstate week was the worst event so far even with how buggy other events were....

>

> Not a meme, wouldn't kill the game, it would remove the safety net for outnumbering side.

 

worst event? clearly OP has not seen how much Anet got praised for no downstate weekend

 

down state works in a PvE environment, but in PvP it is a terrible mechanic, hence Anet changed to only 1 person can revived from down state in wvw

 

a glance into the PvP sub forum and you see how much down state is loathed

[Sobx.1758]

> @"crepuscular.9047" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > @"Vova.2640" said:

> > > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > Nah, just remove downstate instead.

> > >

> > > I get that at this point this is a meme but removing downsate would actually kill the game mode.

> > > No downstate week was the worst event so far even with how buggy other events were....

> >

> > Not a meme, wouldn't kill the game, it would remove the safety net for outnumbering side.

>

> worst event? clearly OP has not seen how much Anet got praised for no downstate weekend

>

> down state works in a PvE environment, but in PvP it is a terrible mechanic, hence Anet changed to only 1 person can revived from down state in wvw

>

> a glance into the PvP sub forum and you see how much down state is loathed

 

Yup, I agree.

[Thornwolf.9721]

If this happens then warclaw is worthless, it can't pull down doors (As it was said it could), It now moves slow as hell AND NOW YOU WANT TO REMOVE THE ONLY THING WORTHWHILE ON IT? Yea, A-net if you even think about this just remove the mount and make it viable in PvE for whatever as without the stomp it would be trash and not worth even having exist (Similar to how you treated racial abilities, nerfing them to near worthlessness and leaving them in as a "Haha there you go kid, have your "Rp" but we really don't want anything but humans/plant humans here.")

[Babytater.6803]

Mounts are fine for transport but the mount stomp is just cheesy and doesn't support skilled gameplay at all. Just annoying for literally any roamers, havoc, zerg, or blob.

[DemonSeed.3528]

Mounts are far from useless. The lower hp on it now isn't really a nerf at all since everyones dmg was toned down. The dmg it can do is still high, there are still numerous issues with it like instead of addressing the aegis on it, they decided to make lance unblockable when the problem is the boon on the mount itself being passed from the player, and a whole load of other things. The only thing it should be is a faster transport - taking 1 dodge away is a first step but there still needs more to be done. For the most part lance and sniff are fine tools. The stomp should be removed. In my past posts about the issues of warclaw, those issues still pertain until now. Most people also don't realise that mount can go down cliffs that would normally kill you as long as you clip the side to offset the inertia. Even without the stomp and dodges it's still a useful mobile transport.

[Justine.6351]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > Not a meme, wouldn't kill the game, it would remove the safety net for outnumbering side.

>

> but everybody goes down

 

Best quote of the week.

[Eramonster.2718]

Class profession effects the mounts armor as well. Eg. Heavy armor profession's mounts have highest armor.

 

Unlikely mounts will be removed (too late; the moment its implemented). All these "tweaks" are just damage control.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Katrina.8702" said:

> I just don’t get the notion of smaller groups having no chance with mount stomps.

You dont?

 

Here let me lay it out to you.

 

Most people dont like it because it upsets them when anything goes against the boon ball stack-on-com meta - such as the ability to stomp someone in the middle of a group - thus its "bad for gameplay" or "broken", because they've already decided how the game is supposed to play, whats acceptable and whats good for gameplay.

 

Incidently, that is the answer to many other questions too.

[Cuks.8241]

> @"kash.9213" said:

> Get rid of Rally and replace class skills with a G skill that's just a slow crawl and other players can press G near you to hold and slow pull/drag you out of the way. Then get rid of mount Stomp and instead let it pick up another player or 4 with you.

 

And let me drag downed players around. Then I would play Splinter Cell stealth mode WvW and pile downed enemies behind the corner.

[Celsith.2753]

> @"SWI.4127" said:

> > @"Katrina.8702" said:

> > I just don’t get the notion of smaller groups having no chance with mount stomps. If anything, at least based on my experience, the mount stomp gives smaller groups a much better chance as you can finish the downs immediately and turn the fight around. It really can go both ways as a mechanic that is available to everyone equally. A better group with better execution wins the fight with or without the mount stomp, imho.

>

> Which group can afford to have people standing off to the side not participating in the fight while still being able to generate downed states? I can tell you most of the time it's not the smaller group.

>

> > Oh and please do not remove mount stomp unless you first address the op downstate/rez mechanics.

>

> They did address res mechanics. In fact they were nerfed very heavily including the most used one, Merciful Intervention.

 

We use mount stomp all the time as a small group against larger numbers or as pugs v a tagged up comped squad. And so does Kats guild. It's a decision we take per fight. Do we think we can generate down quickly enough that it's worth keeping someone mounted for a possibly game changing stomp on a key target? Or do we all engage and hope we can cleave. I generally find that I get mount stomped myself when it literally doesn't make any difference to the fight. Outmanned buff on us being chased by a map queue, I get mount stomped. Doesn't matter, I was going to get run over anyway.

 

I can't see how anyone who fights outnumbered would complain about mount stomps. I can see that it would very much annoy that zergling chasing 5 people with 30 who got stomped though :3

 

[Bigsexy.8302]

> @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > @"SWI.4127" said:

> > > @"Katrina.8702" said:

> > > I just don’t get the notion of smaller groups having no chance with mount stomps. If anything, at least based on my experience, the mount stomp gives smaller groups a much better chance as you can finish the downs immediately and turn the fight around. It really can go both ways as a mechanic that is available to everyone equally. A better group with better execution wins the fight with or without the mount stomp, imho.

> >

> > Which group can afford to have people standing off to the side not participating in the fight while still being able to generate downed states? I can tell you most of the time it's not the smaller group.

> >

> > > Oh and please do not remove mount stomp unless you first address the op downstate/rez mechanics.

> >

> > They did address res mechanics. In fact they were nerfed very heavily including the most used one, Merciful Intervention.

>

> We use mount stomp all the time as a small group against larger numbers or as pugs v a tagged up comped squad. And so does Kats guild. It's a decision we take per fight. Do we think we can generate down quickly enough that it's worth keeping someone mounted for a possibly game changing stomp on a key target? Or do we all engage and hope we can cleave. I generally find that I get mount stomped myself when it literally doesn't make any difference to the fight. Outmanned buff on us being chased by a map queue, I get mount stomped. Doesn't matter, I was going to get run over anyway.

>

> I can't see how anyone who fights outnumbered would complain about mount stomps. I can see that it would very much annoy that zergling chasing 5 people with 30 who got stomped though :3

>

 

Zerglings? This is coming from someone with nearly 1 million kills? Oh wait, I bet they are all from solo roaming and diamond rank is from capping sentries and camps. Kekw

 

Had a guild group farming unorganized pugs at nc the other day. My party was just pulling slackers without stab and bursting them.

You can use your brain and secure stomps with thief, mesmer or engie...or keep playing ez mode and cheese it.

[TheGrimm.5624]

> @"Celsith.2753" said:

> We use mount stomp all the time as a small group against larger numbers or as pugs v a tagged up comped squad. And so does Kats guild. It's a decision we take per fight.

 

Mostly havoc and roam with some zerg surfing. The statement above is the reason it shouldn't be removed. The stomp adds a tactical decision that a group needs to make and that adds depth to a fight. And I say this and am usually on the worse side of numbers so can rarely afford to have people not in the fight.

 

 

[acidic.4356]

tactical ? you mean its the easy option - have a "cheesestomp" watching, waiting to stomp those 2 downs your group managed spike down , rather than , actually stomping them, incase you cant manage it. ye real tactical. if anet introduced a portable pocket nuke that killed everything within a 1000 distance of its landing yad be all for those tactics too eh. games dumbed down enough without all this extra easy/cheessy/gimmicky bs.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> Nah, just remove downstate instead.

 

At least remove revival from killing the target that made u down.

[Towatha.4671]

At this stage, after speed nerf, they might as well just remove it. I won't be spending money on any skins now, I have in the past. Rather spend it on pve mounts - bigger impact on gameplay for me.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

> @"kash.9213" said:

> Get rid of Rally and replace class skills with a G skill that's just a slow crawl and other players can press G near you to hold and slow pull/drag you out of the way. Then get rid of mount Stomp and instead let it pick up another player or 4 with you.

 

Can also promote G-skill energy drinks at the same time. You reach out to catch a sip of that life saving fluid granted by a fellow G-skill drinker. *Sips.* Boing! And you're up on a rush of the life time!

 

D:

[Celsith.2753]

> @"acidic.4356" said:

> tactical ? you mean its the easy option - have a "cheesestomp" watching, waiting to stomp those 2 downs your group managed spike down , rather than , actually stomping them, incase you cant manage it. ye real tactical. if anet introduced a portable pocket nuke that killed everything within a 1000 distance of its landing yad be all for those tactics too eh. games dumbed down enough without all this extra easy/cheessy/gimmicky bs.

 

We aren't talking about a situation where numbers are nearly even. We are talking about a handful of pugs against a massive ktraining blob. Losing the dps from that one person is a tactical decision whether you like it or not. We may not be able to stop that ktraining blob, but when 20 people are stopping to try to rez one person, at least the mount stomp enables the smaller group to get some kills and some satisfaction. The alternative is them being completely helpless and just logging off. I don't think that is good for the game.

 

As far as even numbers go. Ya still a tactical decision. With no quickness stomping anymore it's not simply a case of have someone stealth or invuln rez, or shadow step stomp. Because with 5 people rezzing no matter how much damage we are trying to pump into the down, they're rezzed before the animation finishes. And we are all glass so it's not wet noodle damage. There is counter play to someone coming in to mount stomp, if you don't use it that's on you and your decisions.

 

 

[Celsith.2753]

> @"Bigsexy.8302" said:

> >

>

> Zerglings? This is coming from someone with nearly 1 million kills? Oh wait, I bet they are all from solo roaming and diamond rank is from capping sentries and camps. Kekw

>

> Had a guild group farming unorganized pugs at nc the other day. My party was just pulling slackers without stab and bursting them.

> You can use your brain and secure stomps with thief, mesmer or engie...or keep playing ez mode and cheese it.

 

I've ran with 2-5 people the whole game bud. Most of my hours are on thief and ranger :3 I've posted elsewhere just how fast you can get wexp in a havoc group, if you'd like tips feel free to pm in game.

 

I do of course fight in zergs as well as respond to calls of smaller groups in our territory. I don't aggressively havok any more because the tactics such as watchtower and the willingness of more than double our number to sit in a tower on siege instead of fight pretty much killed the fun of that.

 

See, your guild group, probably on comms, pulling random pugs, is just the situation where mount stomping benefits the none comped or lesser numbered group. Those pugs probably running in one or two at a time right? I can see why you'd be upset if they managed to down one of you and mount stomped :3

 

 

 

 

[SWI.4127]

> @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > @"SWI.4127" said:

> > > @"Katrina.8702" said:

> > > I just don’t get the notion of smaller groups having no chance with mount stomps. If anything, at least based on my experience, the mount stomp gives smaller groups a much better chance as you can finish the downs immediately and turn the fight around. It really can go both ways as a mechanic that is available to everyone equally. A better group with better execution wins the fight with or without the mount stomp, imho.

> >

> > Which group can afford to have people standing off to the side not participating in the fight while still being able to generate downed states? I can tell you most of the time it's not the smaller group.

> >

> > > Oh and please do not remove mount stomp unless you first address the op downstate/rez mechanics.

> >

> > They did address res mechanics. In fact they were nerfed very heavily including the most used one, Merciful Intervention.

>

> We use mount stomp all the time as a small group against larger numbers or as pugs v a tagged up comped squad. And so does Kats guild. It's a decision we take per fight. Do we think we can generate down quickly enough that it's worth keeping someone mounted for a possibly game changing stomp on a key target? Or do we all engage and hope we can cleave. I generally find that I get mount stomped myself when it literally doesn't make any difference to the fight. Outmanned buff on us being chased by a map queue, I get mount stomped. Doesn't matter, I was going to get run over anyway.

>

> I can't see how anyone who fights outnumbered would complain about mount stomps. I can see that it would very much annoy that zergling chasing 5 people with 30 who got stomped though :3

>

 

You say outnumbered, but you're playing with a map queue. Let's get some perspective here. Bursting someone with rangers and a dedicated mount stomper isn't a fight, it's a gank. Gankers are gonna gank, so to each their own. I'm not trying to balance around ganking. You really can't see how someone who fights outnumbered would complain about mount stomps? Imagine this scenario. You are being W-keyed by a bigger zerg and they have so many people that they half of them are still mounted and just running at you. This is a very common situation.

[TheGrimm.5624]

> @"acidic.4356" said:

> tactical ? you mean its the easy option - have a "cheesestomp" watching, waiting to stomp those 2 downs your group managed spike down , rather than , actually stomping them, incase you cant manage it. ye real tactical. if anet introduced a portable pocket nuke that killed everything within a 1000 distance of its landing yad be all for those tactics too eh. games dumbed down enough without all this extra easy/cheessy/gimmicky bs.

 

If you don't think its tactical I am assume you think cleaving and spiking are the same than? No there quite often good reasons to do one or the either. Mount stomps are just one more level of the same with trades of you won't be doing any other damage while mounted and you might be able to extend further to get a stomp but at the risk of now you are out of position. We already have stealth spikes, shadowstep spikes, mini-spikes, gyro spikes, stab spikes, invul spikes, this just gives the same spike to other classes that don't have close to a guaranteed spike.

[acidic.4356]

> @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > @"acidic.4356" said:

> > tactical ? you mean its the easy option - have a "cheesestomp" watching, waiting to stomp those 2 downs your group managed spike down , rather than , actually stomping them, incase you cant manage it. ye real tactical. if anet introduced a portable pocket nuke that killed everything within a 1000 distance of its landing yad be all for those tactics too eh. games dumbed down enough without all this extra easy/cheessy/gimmicky bs.

>

> If you don't think its tactical I am assume you think cleaving and spiking are the same than? No there quite often good reasons to do one or the either. Mount stomps are just one more level of the same with trades of you won't be doing any other damage while mounted and you might be able to extend further to get a stomp but at the risk of now you are out of position. We already have stealth spikes, shadowstep spikes, mini-spikes, gyro spikes, stab spikes, invul spikes, this just gives the same spike to other classes that don't have close to a guaranteed spike.

 

except it stomps 3 ppl at once.. or 2.... ok so reduce that to 1, still a lame mechanic, my opinion

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"acidic.4356" said:

> > @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > > @"acidic.4356" said:

> > > tactical ? you mean its the easy option - have a "cheesestomp" watching, waiting to stomp those 2 downs your group managed spike down , rather than , actually stomping them, incase you cant manage it. ye real tactical. if anet introduced a portable pocket nuke that killed everything within a 1000 distance of its landing yad be all for those tactics too eh. games dumbed down enough without all this extra easy/cheessy/gimmicky bs.

> >

> > If you don't think its tactical I am assume you think cleaving and spiking are the same than? No there quite often good reasons to do one or the either. Mount stomps are just one more level of the same with trades of you won't be doing any other damage while mounted and you might be able to extend further to get a stomp but at the risk of now you are out of position. We already have stealth spikes, shadowstep spikes, mini-spikes, gyro spikes, stab spikes, invul spikes, this just gives the same spike to other classes that don't have close to a guaranteed spike.

>

> except it stomps 3 ppl at once.. or 2.... ok so reduce that to 1, still a lame mechanic, my opinion

 

Downstate is even more lame.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Well, in a outnumbered fight, it's hard to finish.

 

For example, we are outnumbered and defending the keep with a zerg at the door and I am on burn DH. I can probably down a couple easily by casting sword of justice twice but because I wasted my cooldowns to be able to give myself stab and block there's no way I can finish them before their party instant res's them. And you need to launch all your burst because they can heal from 20%-100% in a few seconds. Unless there's someone next to me with a mount....

 

I understand that no downstate would even be better, and I like it when no downstate week comes but not everyone wants that.

 

Anyone that actually plays sniper in these fights knows that better zergs can quickly res their downs so having an easy finish is a important. It's easy to kill the "adds" (pugs who just tag along with the main group) but to kill their important members is much harder.

 

And if they kill me with a mount, well whatever. I'm not going to survive vs 30 people in downstate anyways.

[SWI.4127]

> @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > @"SWI.4127" said:

> > Which group can afford to have people standing off to the side not participating in the fight while still being able to generate downed states? I can tell you most of the time it's not the smaller group.

> >

>

> Is that really a bad thing?

> You'd think a smaller group would be glad to have a number of players on the larger force actively not participating in the fight.

> If the smaller group is better organized and not severely outnumbered then they could potentially turn the tide thanks in part to those choosing to stay mounted and not participate.

 

Let me try to do a better job of explaining this assuming you're talking about zerg fights, because maybe I haven't done a great job so far. The enemy has 20 extra players. You need every man you get can in your squad doing their job. You cannot afford to have people standing off to the side doing nothing until someone goes down. Which, by your own admission, is putting you at a disadvantage. Now the side with the extra 20 players can afford to have 5-10 pugs running around on mounts and still have a numbers advantage. Now say one of these 5-10 random pugs mount stomps 3 people. That is over 100k damage in ONE skill. It takes no skill to pull off, just one button. There is no tradeoff where they have to forego another skill in their build, there is VERY little risk as they have an extra 10k HP, free dodges, and mobility. Players shouldn't be rewarded in this way _especially_ if they aren't even participating in the fight, which, by definition, they are not (otherwise they wouldn't be on a mount). Now would this random player be able to do 100k damage in a fight otherwise? I've seen your average WvW player, and I'm going to go with no.

 

It's a straight up garbage mechanic.