Power vs Condi effectiveness is now balanced

[EremiteAngel.9765]

> @"SamouraiPizzaCat.4821" said:

> Power builds still work. You need to make adjustments. I've adjusted all my toons. They are still playable. You need to theory craft.

 

This man knows his stuff.

Power was a lot stronger than condi before the patch.

On a scale of 1-10, 10 being most effective, power was 10 and condi was around 6-8 depending on class before the patch.

 

After the balance, condi is still around 6-8 and power has also been brought down to the same 6-8 level.

 

Power vs Condi effectiveness is now balanced.

 

As the Samourai cat said, power still works. But you need to theorycraft. Bring more condi clears and you can still do well.

 

I fought Cake Walk Vaans just yesterday. I won the first round against his spellbreaker using a condi core necro. He tweaked his build to include more anti-condi and came back to thrash me twice.

 

Please stop complaining that condi is stronger because it ain’t true. We all have access to many condi management tools. It is just a matter of whether you want to include them in your build.

 

Those who adapt survive.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

But but but this means ppl need to *gasp* ADAPT TO OVERCOME and none wants to change anything about their fav meta build without confirmation that it's the new meta.

 

/sarcasm

[Hannelore.8153]

Power still seems stronger to me, from mechanical standpoint, because it can't be cleansed.

 

Additionally, the entire purpose of conditions is to counter stacking defense effects like Toughness and Protection, however its still possible to overpower all defense on Power builds on most classes. Even the classes with the weakest Power scaling builds can still reach something like 30% damage scaling minimum, and that's not taking into account Vulnerability, which affects both.

 

Power will always be king because as much as people whine about condi, it just doesn't scale nearly as well.

[SamouraiPizzaCat.4821]

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > @"SamouraiPizzaCat.4821" said:

> > Power builds still work. You need to make adjustments. I've adjusted all my toons. They are still playable. You need to theory craft.

>

> This man knows his stuff.

> Power was a lot stronger than condi before the patch.

> On a scale of 1-10, 10 being most effective, power was 10 and condi was around 6-8 depending on class before the patch.

>

> After the balance, condi is still around 6-8 and power has also been brought down to the same 6-8 level.

>

> Power vs Condi effectiveness is now balanced.

>

> As the Samourai cat said, power still works. But you need to theorycraft. Bring more condi clears and you can still do well.

>

> I fought Cake Walk Vaans just yesterday. I won the first round against his spellbreaker using a condi core necro. He tweaked his build to include more anti-condi and came back to thrash me twice.

>

> Please stop complaining that condi is stronger because it ain’t true. We all have access to many condi management tools. It is just a matter of whether you want to include them in your build.

>

> Those who adapt survive.

 

Bear grills adapt & overcome :P . Yer look even on my Holosmith I didn't really change much, I'm not saying I'm immortal by any chance, I die like anyone else, but am still able to fight and have fun. Theory crafting is one of the reasons many players I know play GW2. Just for the challenge of finding new builds that work. Right now my friends and I are enjoying the challenge.

[Junkpile.7439]

Haha holosmith enjoying the challenge. No idea what is the challenge. Just smash some buttons and use broken utilities. =)

[SamouraiPizzaCat.4821]

> @"Junkpile.7439" said:

> Haha holosmith enjoying the challenge. No idea what is the challenge. Just smash some buttons and use broken utilities. =)

 

Haha this is true, really haven't changed much personally on it. Added more damage that's about it.

[sneakytails.5629]

Everyone's skill bars are a lot more pressured now after the patch, with less stability, and longer cooldowns on many skills we have to choose the most important things first. This does not leave a lot of room. If I take enough to fight condi effectively I am too susceptible to power damage, if I take a balance its easily overwhelmed while the condi player hides behind tank stats and spams defensive skills.

 

Trailblazer is still an issue, getting really good damage with enormous buffs to tanky stats. I have to sacrifice at least some things on my power builds to add in toughness and health, I generally end up with lower crit chance and damage. Condition builds have no such problems. This is the disconnect in WvW between power and condi.

 

Besides, resistance skill cooldowns were increased, in some cases significantly. This has meant its now even easier to outpace clears and resistance, unless you go for a full condi defense build, those are a requirement to fight 2 condi players.

 

Lower power damage has increased TTK and it has benefited the Trailblazer and Dire users the most, with absolutely zero sacrifice on their part.

 

All condi has ever been is hiding behind tank stats while rotating through defensive abilities (which they usually stack) while your condis tick. Heck most condi skills are AOE which are far easier to use.

 

Making a damage type (condi) bypass a stat (armor) that most power players have to sacrifice for in gearing is just about the dumbest thing ever.

 

This and the above is why condi should get zero respect.

 

 

[SamouraiPizzaCat.4821]

> @"sneakytails.5629" said:

> Everyone's skill bars are a lot more pressured now after the patch, with less stability, and longer cooldowns on many skills we have to choose the most important things first. This does not leave a lot of room. If I take enough to fight condi effectively I am too susceptible to power damage, if I take a balance its easily overwhelmed while the condi player hides behind tank stats and spams defensive skills.

>

> Trailblazer is still an issue, getting really good damage with enormous buffs to tanky stats. I have to sacrifice at least some things on my power builds to add in toughness and health, I generally end up with lower crit chance and damage. Condition builds have no such problems. This is the disconnect in WvW between power and condi.

>

> Besides, resistance skill cooldowns were increased, in some cases significantly. This has meant its now even easier to outpace clears and resistance, unless you go for a full condi defense build, those are a requirement to fight 2 condi players.

>

> Lower power damage has increased TTK and it has benefited the Trailblazer and Dire users the most, with absolutely zero sacrifice on their part.

>

> All condi has ever been is hiding behind tank stats while rotating through defensive abilities (which they usually stack) while your condis tick. Heck most condi skills are AOE which are far easier to use.

>

> Making a damage type (condi) bypass a stat (armor) that most power players have to sacrifice for in gearing is just about the dumbest thing ever.

>

> This and the above is why condi should get zero respect.

>

>

 

A Glassy Soulbeast running "Second Skin" Trait and Utility + Traits to favour protection along with the plethora of Condi clears is going to clean up most Condi focused players .

[Dawdler.8521]

Clickbaity title that'll only yield one result tipped in favor of the masses and *for some mysterious reason that completely eludes me* the masses not playing condi hates condi, just like they've always done even when the meta has been 90% in favor of power.

 

But granted, I **did** see 1 condi mirage yesterday. He did not fare well. Had changed to chrono after a while. That did not fare much better I think.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

In WvW Burn Guardian as a dmg dealer is completly busted op. Nerf that and its fine.

[acidic.4356]

> @"SamouraiPizzaCat.4821" said:

> A Glassy Soulbeast running "Second Skin" Trait and Utility + Traits to favour protection along with the plethora of Condi clears is going to clean up most Condi focused players .

 

doesnt even has to be glassy^

[nthmetal.9652]

> @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> Power still seems stronger to me, from mechanical standpoint, because it can't be cleansed.

 

Thanks to the greatly reduced cleanses, while not greatly increased cooldowns on condi creation and stacks, you can say that long term condi also cannot be cleansed. Especially when your group outnumbers the enemies.

[lodjur.1284]

Power has a an edge still due to less counterplay options, but the edge is reasonable now and "balanced". Power being a bit more common and overall SLIGHTLY better is not an issue, the previous patch levels of power dominance was.

 

I would personally like specifically condi transfers addressed (specifically the ones from herald). They're currently way too strong when outnumbering, but nerfing those doesn't particularly change the power vs condi balance as they're mostly a way for condi builds to hardcounters other condi builds.

[Kylden Ar.3724]

> @"nthmetal.9652" said:

> > @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> > Power still seems stronger to me, from mechanical standpoint, because it can't be cleansed.

>

> Thanks to the greatly reduced cleanses, while not greatly increased cooldowns on condi creation and stacks, you can say that long term condi also cannot be cleansed. Especially when your group outnumbers the enemies.

 

Bingo.

 

As usual, Ermite is wrong on math.

[Clownmug.8357]

Devs: Reduces power coefficient of Reaper's Mark to 0.01

Also Devs: Leaves Terror trait untouched.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > @"SamouraiPizzaCat.4821" said:

> > Power builds still work. You need to make adjustments. I've adjusted all my toons. They are still playable. You need to theory craft.

>

> This man knows his stuff.

> Power was a lot stronger than condi before the patch.

> On a scale of 1-10, 10 being most effective, power was 10 and condi was around 6-8 depending on class before the patch.

>

> After the balance, condi is still around 6-8 and power has also been brought down to the same 6-8 level.

>

> Power vs Condi effectiveness is now balanced.

>

> **As the Samourai cat said, power still works. But you need to theorycraft. Bring more condi clears and you can still do well.**

>

> I fought Cake Walk Vaans just yesterday. I won the first round against his spellbreaker using a condi core necro. He tweaked his build to include more anti-condi and came back to thrash me twice.

>

> **Please stop complaining that condi is stronger because it ain’t true. We all have access to many condi management tools. It is just a matter of whether you want to include them in your build.**

>

> Those who adapt survive.

 

So.. you create a poll in which you tell people what the answer is supposed to be...

 

Why? Other than mentions and traffic, why?

 

Put up a poll, make it private and comment further down.

 

OR make it a young cat post and stop the poll nonsense.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> ADAPT

 

Been awhile since I've seen that particular meme.

 

Hello darkness, my old friend...

 

[Ertrak.9506]

> @"bluberblasen.9684" said:

> condi WAS always stronger than power.

> maybe you never met some cancer builds like cancer ranger or cancer rev.

> you only met the standard cancer mirage...

 

How delusional/ignorant are you? Are you going to really just ignore how power dominant the meta was for years? Are you really going to ignore how easily condi rev and condi ranger get shutdown to cc->insta burst from power builds?

 

Mirage was the only exception due to Chaotic interuption with daze mantra for perma immobilize and shit loads of damage condi but that got removed from the game, and thats ignoring how they lost an entire dodge now which means half their condi bomb is straight up gone.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Ertrak.9506" said:

> > @"bluberblasen.9684" said:

> > condi WAS always stronger than power.

> > maybe you never met some cancer builds like cancer ranger or cancer rev.

> > you only met the standard cancer mirage...

>

> How delusional/ignorant are you? Are you going to really just ignore how power dominant the meta was for years? Are you really going to ignore how easily condi rev and condi ranger get shutdown to cc->insta burst from power builds?

>

> Mirage was the only exception due to Chaotic interuption with daze mantra for perma immobilize and kitten loads of damage condi but that got removed from the game, and thats ignoring how they lost an entire dodge now which means half their condi bomb is straight up gone.

The *meta* has been power for a long time now yes... But certain condi builds has always been strong 1v1 - just as strong or stronger than eqvivalent power build in the right hands. Most notably probably condi mirage and condi rev (well herald), but honorable mentions to condi womiting scourges, one-trick condi dh and daggerspinning condi evade thieves too.

 

The *problem* is that unlike the meta power, the condi builds exponentially drop in strength the more enemies you meet at once. When the groups reach 3+ and they get pocket healers... Well you know. Forget about it being meta to counter with condi. People can still make it work if they are good, but in simple terms those groups just 3+v1 train people to win. Power does it much better and much faster, especially when you combined it with stunlock builds before for teh deeps.

 

[bluberblasen.9684]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Ertrak.9506" said:

> > > @"bluberblasen.9684" said:

> > > condi WAS always stronger than power.

> > > maybe you never met some cancer builds like cancer ranger or cancer rev.

> > > you only met the standard cancer mirage...

> >

> > How delusional/ignorant are you? Are you going to really just ignore how power dominant the meta was for years? Are you really going to ignore how easily condi rev and condi ranger get shutdown to cc->insta burst from power builds?

> >

> > Mirage was the only exception due to Chaotic interuption with daze mantra for perma immobilize and kitten loads of damage condi but that got removed from the game, and thats ignoring how they lost an entire dodge now which means half their condi bomb is straight up gone.

> The *meta* has been power for a long time now yes... But certain condi builds has always been strong 1v1 - just as strong or stronger than eqvivalent power build in the right hands. Most notably probably condi mirage and condi rev (well herald), but honorable mentions to condi womiting scourges, one-trick condi dh and daggerspinning condi evade thieves too.

>

> The *problem* is that unlike the meta power, the condi builds exponentially drop in strength the more enemies you meet at once. When the groups reach 3+ and they get pocket healers... Well you know. Forget about it being meta to counter with condi. People can still make it work if they are good, but in simple terms those groups just 3+v1 train people to win. Power does it much better and much faster, especially when you combined it with stunlock builds before for teh deeps.

>

thank you !

you explained it better than i ever could :)

 

 

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"SamouraiPizzaCat.4821" said:

> > @"Junkpile.7439" said:

> > Haha holosmith enjoying the challenge. No idea what is the challenge. Just smash some buttons and use broken utilities. =)

>

> Haha this is true, really haven't changed much personally on it. Added more damage that's about it.

 

Bad holos m8 overheat, class remains the same.

 

 

Players need to use more light fields that can heal at same time :) , in Zerg condis can become almost a first tick then cleanse, ence and repeat.

[aspirine.6852]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Ertrak.9506" said:

> > > @"bluberblasen.9684" said:

> > > condi WAS always stronger than power.

> > > maybe you never met some cancer builds like cancer ranger or cancer rev.

> > > you only met the standard cancer mirage...

> >

> > How delusional/ignorant are you? Are you going to really just ignore how power dominant the meta was for years? Are you really going to ignore how easily condi rev and condi ranger get shutdown to cc->insta burst from power builds?

> >

> > Mirage was the only exception due to Chaotic interuption with daze mantra for perma immobilize and kitten loads of damage condi but that got removed from the game, and thats ignoring how they lost an entire dodge now which means half their condi bomb is straight up gone.

> The *meta* has been power for a long time now yes... But certain condi builds has always been strong 1v1 - just as strong or stronger than eqvivalent power build in the right hands. Most notably probably condi mirage and condi rev (well herald), but honorable mentions to condi womiting scourges, one-trick condi dh and daggerspinning condi evade thieves too.

>

> The *problem* is that unlike the meta power, the condi builds exponentially drop in strength the more enemies you meet at once. When the groups reach 3+ and they get pocket healers... Well you know. Forget about it being meta to counter with condi. People can still make it work if they are good, but in simple terms those groups just 3+v1 train people to win. Power does it much better and much faster, especially when you combined it with stunlock builds before for teh deeps.

>

 

As I am reading this I am watching a zerg 'adapt' to the condi damage/spam. Everything gets insta-cleaned in a second and boonspam is still OP and up almost all the time.

Perhaps a lucky Rev spike can damage a few, but power seems to dominate more in bigger fights. Now smaller fights I have only seen condi builds since the patch :D Condi + healer usually.

 

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"aspirine.6852" said:

> As I am reading this I am watching a zerg 'adapt' to the condi damage/spam. Everything gets insta-cleaned in a second and boonspam is still OP and up almost all the time.

 

I'm currently playing Burn DH alot since ANET worked so hard to improve Hammer on my Revenant.

 

I use Scepter / Longbow

Sword of Justice is equipped.

I know what a whirl finisher is.

 

Shhh..it's a secret.

 

[LetoII.3782]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > > @"SamouraiPizzaCat.4821" said:

> > > Power builds still work. You need to make adjustments. I've adjusted all my toons. They are still playable. You need to theory craft.

> >

> > This man knows his stuff.

> > Power was a lot stronger than condi before the patch.

> > On a scale of 1-10, 10 being most effective, power was 10 and condi was around 6-8 depending on class before the patch.

> >

> > After the balance, condi is still around 6-8 and power has also been brought down to the same 6-8 level.

> >

> > Power vs Condi effectiveness is now balanced.

> >

> > **As the Samourai cat said, power still works. But you need to theorycraft. Bring more condi clears and you can still do well.**

> >

> > I fought Cake Walk Vaans just yesterday. I won the first round against his spellbreaker using a condi core necro. He tweaked his build to include more anti-condi and came back to thrash me twice.

> >

> > **Please stop complaining that condi is stronger because it ain’t true. We all have access to many condi management tools. It is just a matter of whether you want to include them in your build.**

> >

> > Those who adapt survive.

>

> So.. you create a poll in which you tell people what the answer is supposed to be...

>

> Why? Other than mentions and traffic, why?

>

> Put up a poll, make it private and comment further down.

>

> OR make it a young cat post and stop the poll nonsense.

 

I liked the part where he stealth implied he SHOULD go 1:1 against vaans. Because, you know, equally competent.

[Genesis.5169]

Power has always been the meta damage type over 7 years. There have been condition builds that are meta within the larger power meta. But it has always been power.