UNOwen.7132 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"Tayga.3192" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > There is still damage variation, they didnt remove it. I mean, hell, you can hover over your weapon and still see that its weapon strength isnt one value, but a range of values. Thats why when you hit with the same skill twice, it wont do twice the same damage. > > Check the patch notes: > > In PvP only, weapon strength will now always use the midpoint instead of randomly rolling across the range. Yeah I just read that. That is odd, because it doesnt seem to always apply? I tested real quick in the HotM combat arena, and my shadow shot was still going up and down in damage, despite no modifier changing. Im not sure though. It is odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Tayga.3192" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > There is still damage variation, they didnt remove it. I mean, hell, you can hover over your weapon and still see that its weapon strength isnt one value, but a range of values. Thats why when you hit with the same skill twice, it wont do twice the same damage. > > > > Check the patch notes: > > > In PvP only, weapon strength will now always use the midpoint instead of randomly rolling across the range. > > Yeah I just read that. That is odd, because it doesnt seem to always apply? I tested real quick in the HotM combat arena, and my shadow shot was still going up and down in damage, despite no modifier changing. Im not sure though. It is odd. lead attacks or extra dmg from condis or something else. there is alot of factors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > did you just assume that under 50% crit chance build crit 100% of the time? o.O > > > > First of all, you forgot Fury. Second of all, you also always assume that the backstab of thief crits, so Im not sure why youre in shock that I would make the same assumption. Oh and spoiler: If we take away the "it always crits assumption", thief is *even worse off*. Their crit multiplier is higher, so their overall damage becomes lower. > > mesmers crit modifier is insane due to overstacking ferocity ( scholars + berserker ) and sup complex ( 25% damage bonus ON CRITS ONLY ) > first hits that DONT proc fury, have UNDER 50% crit chance. 48 or 49 if I remember correctly. > after fury they have under 70% still. If you get unlucky first hits and dont drop the enemy under 75% you WILL F1 without fury making you still miss even more damage. > this is why you F1 for 10k dmg with crits and for 3k without crits, becouse mesmers crit modif is actually about 3.0. > as for thief, depending on the build they run with maruders ( more crit chance + fury from the start ) so its insta 70% OR they run crits strikers so they have always 100%. > Im not expert on thief but getting crit from backstab is about 70-100%. > for your 20k dmg to thief is almost perfect scenarion. all crits would nuke for about 23k. Realistic damage is way lower, and for every ultra lucky burst you will get ultra unlucky one that doesnt even do 12k. > > PS gs2 is broken and deals less dmg then intended. 15%. 25% is when theyre below 50% or disabled, but I didnt assume that, so 15% is what I went with. Thief was also using scholars + berserkers in this hypothetical scenario. Correct, but the way Mesmers burst is structured, the highest damage skills are at the end. And yes, its *just* under 70% (67%, I think?). And no, that is wrong, the crit modifier is 2.4. More if you assume more, I didnt. And no, you will hit 12k with crits, and about 5000 without. Which is still less than thieves difference of 2.55. They run Berserkers, not Marauders. Actually I think S/P still runs Marauders, the others have switched to Berserkers. You are not an expert on thief, yes, which is why youre wrong. Its 50-70%. There is no build running Crit Strikes for Hidden Killer. Well there is one in WvW, but it uses Valkyrie. Correct, it is an almost perfect scenario. But the thing is, even if you just crit the average amount, thats still around 15-16k damage, which is a lot more than thief can achieve with backstab. And again, as I mentioned you also assumed thief always crits, which they certainly dont. Is it? I hadnt actually looked that close at the GS2 numbers, but if they are bugged, I assume itll be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Tayga.3192" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > There is still damage variation, they didnt remove it. I mean, hell, you can hover over your weapon and still see that its weapon strength isnt one value, but a range of values. Thats why when you hit with the same skill twice, it wont do twice the same damage. > > > > > > Check the patch notes: > > > > In PvP only, weapon strength will now always use the midpoint instead of randomly rolling across the range. > > > > Yeah I just read that. That is odd, because it doesnt seem to always apply? I tested real quick in the HotM combat arena, and my shadow shot was still going up and down in damage, despite no modifier changing. Im not sure though. It is odd. > > lead attacks or extra dmg from condis or something else. there is alot of factors Thing is that my damage was slightly *lower* than what it was supposed to be. And when I tested it in the HotM arena, it also occasionally got lower than the previous hit, despite nothing changing. But I couldnt get the same result with double strike. Right now Im assuming that Dual Wield skills somehow are buggy with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kuro.8937 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers > > > > > > > > > > > can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was photoshopped right? > > > > > > > > > > Now you can put your guitar back on the bag. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is it every time people talk about backstab people keep trying to pull the "fully malice stacked malicious backstab" move and expect it to work? Yes, a fully stacked malicious backstab can hit very hard. Photonic Blasting Module can hit *even harder*. Do you know what they share in common? You cant really hit them on enemies who arent AFK or lagging hard. Though, looking at that black powder damage, I also have the sneaking suspicion that you mightve taken off some of your gear to push the damage up. Because for Black Powder to do 1.5k, that requires a level of glass that even a zerkers Ele doesnt have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's instant. > > > > > > > > And the shadowshot ones are with 0 malice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers > > > > > > > > > > > can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was photoshopped right? > > > > > > > > > > Now you can put your guitar back on the bag. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is it every time people talk about backstab people keep trying to pull the "fully malice stacked malicious backstab" move and expect it to work? Yes, a fully stacked malicious backstab can hit very hard. Photonic Blasting Module can hit *even harder*. Do you know what they share in common? You cant really hit them on enemies who arent AFK or lagging hard. Though, looking at that black powder damage, I also have the sneaking suspicion that you mightve taken off some of your gear to push the damage up. Because for Black Powder to do 1.5k, that requires a level of glass that even a zerkers Ele doesnt have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's instant. > > > > > > > > And the shadowshot ones are with 0 malice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Powder -> 0.5 cast time > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heartseeker -> 0.75 cast time. > > > > > > > "Instant". I dont think you know what instant means. And Im pretty sure you needed a third attack too. All while the opponent did absolutely nothing against it. Yeah, so much for that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Shadowshot ones are also pretty clearly with you taking off your gear to push your defense stat lower to artificially up the damage. I dont have the time to do the *exact* math right now, but looking at the last time I did one of these calculations, this is about twice as much as is possible with the glassiest, highest damage build around. In other words, about what you would expect if a player were to take off their gear and lose all of the defense rating, lowering their armour in half and doubling the damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mirror blade 0,75 cast time > > > > > > Mind stab 0,25 cast time > > > > > > No instant huehuehue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mirror-blade is pre-cast within stealth (Which you cant do with Black Powder or Heartseeker as they are *the way you enter stealth in the first place*. Mind Stab is not neccessary for the combo. Bad excuse. > > > > > > > > > > > BS, I was with all gear. It seems you're clueless regarding your own profession. > > > > > > It's easy go into arena, take all damage kitten you can get and test it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh please, thats a bad lie and you should know better than to stick with it. But dont worry, once Im back and have some time, Ill do the exact damage calculation and show that you in fact are lying. > > > > > > > > Crit 3 2 1 > > > > Trickery 3 1 2 > > > > DE 1 1 2 > > > > > > > > Go test it, then come here to apologize. > > > > > > > > Edit: since you asked so nicely **this is without armor:** > > > > https://imgur.com/a/FzkqVaw > > > > > > Lets do the math then. Im assuming its PvP, so that makes my job easier. Mesmers armor rating is 1888. Thieves power with activated Assassins Signet and quickness is 3115. Its a dual weild, so it uses the daggers weapon strength. 922.5. Scaling is 1.3125. So, the base damage is 3115\*922.5\*1.3125/1888=1997. Now, we just multiply it with every damage modifier we have. First, crit. 255.1% crit damage with Fury. So, we multiply it with 2.551. And just to start skipping ahead, 1.1 iron sight, 1.1 ferocious strikes, 1.07 twin fangs, 1.05 lead attacks, 1.12 scholars and weapon sigils(they stack additively). So, thats 1997\*2.551\*1.1\*1.1\*1.07\*1.05\*1.12=7.7k. Hm, higher than I expected, still significantly lower than your 9k. And thats the highest damage you can do, and were not even going to address the fact that this hypotethical build is completely unplayable. > > > > Yes the SS were fabricated....... > > Go test it in game, already gave you the build. > > > > Guess what else is unplayable? Power mesmer/mirage/chrono. > > I dont know what setup you used to pump up the damage numbers. But math (which is infallible) has shown the damage you have shown to be, simply put, impossible without fabrication. But just to humour you, I did test it. You get one guess what happened. If you guessed "the damage lined up *perfectly* with the math and was significantly lower than your fabricated damage", then congratulations. You are correct. Seriously though, you Mesmer mains take this roleplaying thing a bit too serious, just because your class is all about deception, doesnt mean you should be. > > Oh yeah, I forgot, we talked about the difference in burst between Mesmer and Thief. Ill quickly calculate Mesmers burst then. Im gonna actually use the metabattle build though instead of an artificial one that tries to up the damage as much as possible. Thieves armour rating is 2029. Now here is where it gets tricks, since Mesmer is multiple hits at the same time, the damage gets messy. Specifically, vulnerability from Mirror Blade and Power Spike, and Power from Mirror Blades might. Way Im going to handle it is that I simply apply it to the next one, so mirror blade wont benefit from its own vulnerability or might. Less damage than the actual burst, but easier to calculate. So, Mesmers power is 2375. With Mirror Blades might, its 2645. Power Spike applies 12 vulnerability, Mirror Blade applies 12. The scalings Ive mentioned above, but its 0.45 for Power Spike, Mirror blade 1.57. Mind Wrack 2.0. Greatswords weapon strength is 1015. Time to do math. > > So, were gonna calculate the 3 base damages first, then the multipliers. Power spike is (0.45\*2375\*1015)/2029=534. Mirror Blade is (1.57\*2375\*1015)/2029=1865. Mind Wrack is (2.0\*2645\*1015)/2029=2646. Now, multipliers. Power Spike gets affected by Scholar, the weapon sigils, and of course Superiority Complex boosted crit. So, 1.12 and 2.4. Thats 534\*1.12\*2.4=1435. Now, Mirror Blade. Here it gets more interesting. Since Power Spike did damage, egotism kicks in. Additionally, Power Spike applied 12 vulnerability, futher increasing damage by 18% thanks to Fragility. So its 1865\*1.12\*2.4\*1.05\*1.18=6211 damage. Now, at this point against a thief, Superiority Complex's second part would also kick in. But Im going to ignore it. Just because its too close (And unneccessary). However, now the target has 24 vulnerability. Which means 1.36 increase. Additionally, shatters benefit from Shattered Anguish, which adds another 1.2. So, thats 2646\*1.12\*2.4\*1.05\*1.36\*1.2= 12188 damage. Total damage: 1435+6211+12188=19834 damage. Remember, even your max malice malicious backstab didnt do this much damage. And Mesmers actual damage is *higher* since I didnt include Superiority Complex's second part, or the might and vulnerability on each hit of Mirror Blade. > > So yeah, Mesmers burst is way higher. And this is just the version that cant be reacted to. If you want more damage you can then follow up with Mind Stab and Phantasmal Berserker. But theyre totally superfluous. > There is problem with this formula althought . You make the assumption that ''all the attacks'' will always crit : 1x Power Spike = 1 attack 1x Mirror Blade + x1 bounce = 2 attacks 1x Mind Wrack (each individual Clone crit , regadles of the other 2) = 3 attacks Total 6 attacks But in the other hand , you can do a Backstab + Heartseeker (before the the stealth render comes off , or cast it at his end of his dodgeroll) and do the same amount , with less RNG attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers > > > > > > > > > > > > can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was photoshopped right? > > > > > > > > > > > Now you can put your guitar back on the bag. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is it every time people talk about backstab people keep trying to pull the "fully malice stacked malicious backstab" move and expect it to work? Yes, a fully stacked malicious backstab can hit very hard. Photonic Blasting Module can hit *even harder*. Do you know what they share in common? You cant really hit them on enemies who arent AFK or lagging hard. Though, looking at that black powder damage, I also have the sneaking suspicion that you mightve taken off some of your gear to push the damage up. Because for Black Powder to do 1.5k, that requires a level of glass that even a zerkers Ele doesnt have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's instant. > > > > > > > > > And the shadowshot ones are with 0 malice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers > > > > > > > > > > > > can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was photoshopped right? > > > > > > > > > > > Now you can put your guitar back on the bag. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is it every time people talk about backstab people keep trying to pull the "fully malice stacked malicious backstab" move and expect it to work? Yes, a fully stacked malicious backstab can hit very hard. Photonic Blasting Module can hit *even harder*. Do you know what they share in common? You cant really hit them on enemies who arent AFK or lagging hard. Though, looking at that black powder damage, I also have the sneaking suspicion that you mightve taken off some of your gear to push the damage up. Because for Black Powder to do 1.5k, that requires a level of glass that even a zerkers Ele doesnt have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's instant. > > > > > > > > > And the shadowshot ones are with 0 malice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Powder -> 0.5 cast time > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heartseeker -> 0.75 cast time. > > > > > > > > "Instant". I dont think you know what instant means. And Im pretty sure you needed a third attack too. All while the opponent did absolutely nothing against it. Yeah, so much for that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Shadowshot ones are also pretty clearly with you taking off your gear to push your defense stat lower to artificially up the damage. I dont have the time to do the *exact* math right now, but looking at the last time I did one of these calculations, this is about twice as much as is possible with the glassiest, highest damage build around. In other words, about what you would expect if a player were to take off their gear and lose all of the defense rating, lowering their armour in half and doubling the damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mirror blade 0,75 cast time > > > > > > > Mind stab 0,25 cast time > > > > > > > No instant huehuehue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mirror-blade is pre-cast within stealth (Which you cant do with Black Powder or Heartseeker as they are *the way you enter stealth in the first place*. Mind Stab is not neccessary for the combo. Bad excuse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > BS, I was with all gear. It seems you're clueless regarding your own profession. > > > > > > > It's easy go into arena, take all damage kitten you can get and test it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh please, thats a bad lie and you should know better than to stick with it. But dont worry, once Im back and have some time, Ill do the exact damage calculation and show that you in fact are lying. > > > > > > > > > > Crit 3 2 1 > > > > > Trickery 3 1 2 > > > > > DE 1 1 2 > > > > > > > > > > Go test it, then come here to apologize. > > > > > > > > > > Edit: since you asked so nicely **this is without armor:** > > > > > https://imgur.com/a/FzkqVaw > > > > > > > > Lets do the math then. Im assuming its PvP, so that makes my job easier. Mesmers armor rating is 1888. Thieves power with activated Assassins Signet and quickness is 3115. Its a dual weild, so it uses the daggers weapon strength. 922.5. Scaling is 1.3125. So, the base damage is 3115\*922.5\*1.3125/1888=1997. Now, we just multiply it with every damage modifier we have. First, crit. 255.1% crit damage with Fury. So, we multiply it with 2.551. And just to start skipping ahead, 1.1 iron sight, 1.1 ferocious strikes, 1.07 twin fangs, 1.05 lead attacks, 1.12 scholars and weapon sigils(they stack additively). So, thats 1997\*2.551\*1.1\*1.1\*1.07\*1.05\*1.12=7.7k. Hm, higher than I expected, still significantly lower than your 9k. And thats the highest damage you can do, and were not even going to address the fact that this hypotethical build is completely unplayable. > > > > > > Yes the SS were fabricated....... > > > Go test it in game, already gave you the build. > > > > > > Guess what else is unplayable? Power mesmer/mirage/chrono. > > > > I dont know what setup you used to pump up the damage numbers. But math (which is infallible) has shown the damage you have shown to be, simply put, impossible without fabrication. But just to humour you, I did test it. You get one guess what happened. If you guessed "the damage lined up *perfectly* with the math and was significantly lower than your fabricated damage", then congratulations. You are correct. Seriously though, you Mesmer mains take this roleplaying thing a bit too serious, just because your class is all about deception, doesnt mean you should be. > > > > Oh yeah, I forgot, we talked about the difference in burst between Mesmer and Thief. Ill quickly calculate Mesmers burst then. Im gonna actually use the metabattle build though instead of an artificial one that tries to up the damage as much as possible. Thieves armour rating is 2029. Now here is where it gets tricks, since Mesmer is multiple hits at the same time, the damage gets messy. Specifically, vulnerability from Mirror Blade and Power Spike, and Power from Mirror Blades might. Way Im going to handle it is that I simply apply it to the next one, so mirror blade wont benefit from its own vulnerability or might. Less damage than the actual burst, but easier to calculate. So, Mesmers power is 2375. With Mirror Blades might, its 2645. Power Spike applies 12 vulnerability, Mirror Blade applies 12. The scalings Ive mentioned above, but its 0.45 for Power Spike, Mirror blade 1.57. Mind Wrack 2.0. Greatswords weapon strength is 1015. Time to do math. > > > > So, were gonna calculate the 3 base damages first, then the multipliers. Power spike is (0.45\*2375\*1015)/2029=534. Mirror Blade is (1.57\*2375\*1015)/2029=1865. Mind Wrack is (2.0\*2645\*1015)/2029=2646. Now, multipliers. Power Spike gets affected by Scholar, the weapon sigils, and of course Superiority Complex boosted crit. So, 1.12 and 2.4. Thats 534\*1.12\*2.4=1435. Now, Mirror Blade. Here it gets more interesting. Since Power Spike did damage, egotism kicks in. Additionally, Power Spike applied 12 vulnerability, futher increasing damage by 18% thanks to Fragility. So its 1865\*1.12\*2.4\*1.05\*1.18=6211 damage. Now, at this point against a thief, Superiority Complex's second part would also kick in. But Im going to ignore it. Just because its too close (And unneccessary). However, now the target has 24 vulnerability. Which means 1.36 increase. Additionally, shatters benefit from Shattered Anguish, which adds another 1.2. So, thats 2646\*1.12\*2.4\*1.05\*1.36\*1.2= 12188 damage. Total damage: 1435+6211+12188=19834 damage. Remember, even your max malice malicious backstab didnt do this much damage. And Mesmers actual damage is *higher* since I didnt include Superiority Complex's second part, or the might and vulnerability on each hit of Mirror Blade. > > > > So yeah, Mesmers burst is way higher. And this is just the version that cant be reacted to. If you want more damage you can then follow up with Mind Stab and Phantasmal Berserker. But theyre totally superfluous. > > > > There is problem with this formula althought . > You make the assumption that ''all the attacks'' will always crit : > 1x Power Spike = 1 attack > 1x Mirror Blade + x1 bounce = 2 attacks > 1x Mind Wrack (each individual Clone crit , regadles of the other 2) = 3 attacks > > Total 6 attacks > > But in the other hand , you can do a Backstab + Heartseeker (before the the stealth render comes off) and do the same amount , with less RNG attacks > And you make the assumption that backstab and heartseeker will always crit. Also, no, thats not a good comparision, Heartseeker has a 0.75 second cast time. There is no such thing as "before the stealth render comes off". If we added another 0.75 seconds afterwards, the Mesmer would also get Phantasmal Berserker off, which makes them pull far ahead again. Anyway, if you look at perfect crits, average crits, or anything in between, Mesmer is far ahead of Thief. Mesmer with average crit chance will hit for 15-16k. Thief with average crit chance will hit for 10k or 4k, depending on whether his one attack crit. Thats if anything, more RNG than Mesmer, who since the damage is split into a number of hits, is less all or nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kuro.8937 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers > > > > > > > > > > > > > can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was photoshopped right? > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you can put your guitar back on the bag. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is it every time people talk about backstab people keep trying to pull the "fully malice stacked malicious backstab" move and expect it to work? Yes, a fully stacked malicious backstab can hit very hard. Photonic Blasting Module can hit *even harder*. Do you know what they share in common? You cant really hit them on enemies who arent AFK or lagging hard. Though, looking at that black powder damage, I also have the sneaking suspicion that you mightve taken off some of your gear to push the damage up. Because for Black Powder to do 1.5k, that requires a level of glass that even a zerkers Ele doesnt have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's instant. > > > > > > > > > > And the shadowshot ones are with 0 malice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers > > > > > > > > > > > > > can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was photoshopped right? > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you can put your guitar back on the bag. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is it every time people talk about backstab people keep trying to pull the "fully malice stacked malicious backstab" move and expect it to work? Yes, a fully stacked malicious backstab can hit very hard. Photonic Blasting Module can hit *even harder*. Do you know what they share in common? You cant really hit them on enemies who arent AFK or lagging hard. Though, looking at that black powder damage, I also have the sneaking suspicion that you mightve taken off some of your gear to push the damage up. Because for Black Powder to do 1.5k, that requires a level of glass that even a zerkers Ele doesnt have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's instant. > > > > > > > > > > And the shadowshot ones are with 0 malice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Powder -> 0.5 cast time > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heartseeker -> 0.75 cast time. > > > > > > > > > "Instant". I dont think you know what instant means. And Im pretty sure you needed a third attack too. All while the opponent did absolutely nothing against it. Yeah, so much for that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Shadowshot ones are also pretty clearly with you taking off your gear to push your defense stat lower to artificially up the damage. I dont have the time to do the *exact* math right now, but looking at the last time I did one of these calculations, this is about twice as much as is possible with the glassiest, highest damage build around. In other words, about what you would expect if a player were to take off their gear and lose all of the defense rating, lowering their armour in half and doubling the damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mirror blade 0,75 cast time > > > > > > > > Mind stab 0,25 cast time > > > > > > > > No instant huehuehue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mirror-blade is pre-cast within stealth (Which you cant do with Black Powder or Heartseeker as they are *the way you enter stealth in the first place*. Mind Stab is not neccessary for the combo. Bad excuse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BS, I was with all gear. It seems you're clueless regarding your own profession. > > > > > > > > It's easy go into arena, take all damage kitten you can get and test it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh please, thats a bad lie and you should know better than to stick with it. But dont worry, once Im back and have some time, Ill do the exact damage calculation and show that you in fact are lying. > > > > > > > > > > > > Crit 3 2 1 > > > > > > Trickery 3 1 2 > > > > > > DE 1 1 2 > > > > > > > > > > > > Go test it, then come here to apologize. > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: since you asked so nicely **this is without armor:** > > > > > > https://imgur.com/a/FzkqVaw > > > > > > > > > > Lets do the math then. Im assuming its PvP, so that makes my job easier. Mesmers armor rating is 1888. Thieves power with activated Assassins Signet and quickness is 3115. Its a dual weild, so it uses the daggers weapon strength. 922.5. Scaling is 1.3125. So, the base damage is 3115\*922.5\*1.3125/1888=1997. Now, we just multiply it with every damage modifier we have. First, crit. 255.1% crit damage with Fury. So, we multiply it with 2.551. And just to start skipping ahead, 1.1 iron sight, 1.1 ferocious strikes, 1.07 twin fangs, 1.05 lead attacks, 1.12 scholars and weapon sigils(they stack additively). So, thats 1997\*2.551\*1.1\*1.1\*1.07\*1.05\*1.12=7.7k. Hm, higher than I expected, still significantly lower than your 9k. And thats the highest damage you can do, and were not even going to address the fact that this hypotethical build is completely unplayable. > > > > > > > > Yes the SS were fabricated....... > > > > Go test it in game, already gave you the build. > > > > > > > > Guess what else is unplayable? Power mesmer/mirage/chrono. > > > > > > I dont know what setup you used to pump up the damage numbers. But math (which is infallible) has shown the damage you have shown to be, simply put, impossible without fabrication. But just to humour you, I did test it. You get one guess what happened. If you guessed "the damage lined up *perfectly* with the math and was significantly lower than your fabricated damage", then congratulations. You are correct. Seriously though, you Mesmer mains take this roleplaying thing a bit too serious, just because your class is all about deception, doesnt mean you should be. > > > > > > Oh yeah, I forgot, we talked about the difference in burst between Mesmer and Thief. Ill quickly calculate Mesmers burst then. Im gonna actually use the metabattle build though instead of an artificial one that tries to up the damage as much as possible. Thieves armour rating is 2029. Now here is where it gets tricks, since Mesmer is multiple hits at the same time, the damage gets messy. Specifically, vulnerability from Mirror Blade and Power Spike, and Power from Mirror Blades might. Way Im going to handle it is that I simply apply it to the next one, so mirror blade wont benefit from its own vulnerability or might. Less damage than the actual burst, but easier to calculate. So, Mesmers power is 2375. With Mirror Blades might, its 2645. Power Spike applies 12 vulnerability, Mirror Blade applies 12. The scalings Ive mentioned above, but its 0.45 for Power Spike, Mirror blade 1.57. Mind Wrack 2.0. Greatswords weapon strength is 1015. Time to do math. > > > > > > So, were gonna calculate the 3 base damages first, then the multipliers. Power spike is (0.45\*2375\*1015)/2029=534. Mirror Blade is (1.57\*2375\*1015)/2029=1865. Mind Wrack is (2.0\*2645\*1015)/2029=2646. Now, multipliers. Power Spike gets affected by Scholar, the weapon sigils, and of course Superiority Complex boosted crit. So, 1.12 and 2.4. Thats 534\*1.12\*2.4=1435. Now, Mirror Blade. Here it gets more interesting. Since Power Spike did damage, egotism kicks in. Additionally, Power Spike applied 12 vulnerability, futher increasing damage by 18% thanks to Fragility. So its 1865\*1.12\*2.4\*1.05\*1.18=6211 damage. Now, at this point against a thief, Superiority Complex's second part would also kick in. But Im going to ignore it. Just because its too close (And unneccessary). However, now the target has 24 vulnerability. Which means 1.36 increase. Additionally, shatters benefit from Shattered Anguish, which adds another 1.2. So, thats 2646\*1.12\*2.4\*1.05\*1.36\*1.2= 12188 damage. Total damage: 1435+6211+12188=19834 damage. Remember, even your max malice malicious backstab didnt do this much damage. And Mesmers actual damage is *higher* since I didnt include Superiority Complex's second part, or the might and vulnerability on each hit of Mirror Blade. > > > > > > So yeah, Mesmers burst is way higher. And this is just the version that cant be reacted to. If you want more damage you can then follow up with Mind Stab and Phantasmal Berserker. But theyre totally superfluous. > > > > > > > There is problem with this formula althought . > > You make the assumption that ''all the attacks'' will always crit : > > 1x Power Spike = 1 attack > > 1x Mirror Blade + x1 bounce = 2 attacks > > 1x Mind Wrack (each individual Clone crit , regadles of the other 2) = 3 attacks > > > > Total 6 attacks > > > > But in the other hand , you can do a Backstab + Heartseeker (before the the stealth render comes off) and do the same amount , with less RNG attacks > > > > And you make the assumption that backstab and heartseeker will always crit. Also, no, thats not a good comparision, Heartseeker has a 0.75 second cast time. There is no such thing as "before the stealth render comes off". If we added another 0.75 seconds afterwards, the Mesmer would also get Phantasmal Berserker off, which makes them pull far ahead again. Anyway, if you look at perfect crits, average crits, or anything in between, Mesmer is far ahead of Thief. Mesmer with average crit chance will hit for 15-16k. Thief with average crit chance will hit for 10k or 4k, depending on whether his one attack crit. Thats if anything, more RNG than Mesmer, who since the damage is split into a number of hits, is less all or nothing. But you made the calculation based , on all attacks will crit (16k) The average would be 50% (8k) The cast time is 0.75 , which helps you leap forward Mid air , if you touch somebody you istantly hit him . If not , you leap for xxx amount of distance . The Systems doesnt ''force you'' to wait 0,75 and then attack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was photoshopped right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you can put your guitar back on the bag. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is it every time people talk about backstab people keep trying to pull the "fully malice stacked malicious backstab" move and expect it to work? Yes, a fully stacked malicious backstab can hit very hard. Photonic Blasting Module can hit *even harder*. Do you know what they share in common? You cant really hit them on enemies who arent AFK or lagging hard. Though, looking at that black powder damage, I also have the sneaking suspicion that you mightve taken off some of your gear to push the damage up. Because for Black Powder to do 1.5k, that requires a level of glass that even a zerkers Ele doesnt have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's instant. > > > > > > > > > > > And the shadowshot ones are with 0 malice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was photoshopped right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you can put your guitar back on the bag. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is it every time people talk about backstab people keep trying to pull the "fully malice stacked malicious backstab" move and expect it to work? Yes, a fully stacked malicious backstab can hit very hard. Photonic Blasting Module can hit *even harder*. Do you know what they share in common? You cant really hit them on enemies who arent AFK or lagging hard. Though, looking at that black powder damage, I also have the sneaking suspicion that you mightve taken off some of your gear to push the damage up. Because for Black Powder to do 1.5k, that requires a level of glass that even a zerkers Ele doesnt have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's instant. > > > > > > > > > > > And the shadowshot ones are with 0 malice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Powder -> 0.5 cast time > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heartseeker -> 0.75 cast time. > > > > > > > > > > "Instant". I dont think you know what instant means. And Im pretty sure you needed a third attack too. All while the opponent did absolutely nothing against it. Yeah, so much for that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Shadowshot ones are also pretty clearly with you taking off your gear to push your defense stat lower to artificially up the damage. I dont have the time to do the *exact* math right now, but looking at the last time I did one of these calculations, this is about twice as much as is possible with the glassiest, highest damage build around. In other words, about what you would expect if a player were to take off their gear and lose all of the defense rating, lowering their armour in half and doubling the damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mirror blade 0,75 cast time > > > > > > > > > Mind stab 0,25 cast time > > > > > > > > > No instant huehuehue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mirror-blade is pre-cast within stealth (Which you cant do with Black Powder or Heartseeker as they are *the way you enter stealth in the first place*. Mind Stab is not neccessary for the combo. Bad excuse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BS, I was with all gear. It seems you're clueless regarding your own profession. > > > > > > > > > It's easy go into arena, take all damage kitten you can get and test it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh please, thats a bad lie and you should know better than to stick with it. But dont worry, once Im back and have some time, Ill do the exact damage calculation and show that you in fact are lying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crit 3 2 1 > > > > > > > Trickery 3 1 2 > > > > > > > DE 1 1 2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Go test it, then come here to apologize. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: since you asked so nicely **this is without armor:** > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/a/FzkqVaw > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets do the math then. Im assuming its PvP, so that makes my job easier. Mesmers armor rating is 1888. Thieves power with activated Assassins Signet and quickness is 3115. Its a dual weild, so it uses the daggers weapon strength. 922.5. Scaling is 1.3125. So, the base damage is 3115\*922.5\*1.3125/1888=1997. Now, we just multiply it with every damage modifier we have. First, crit. 255.1% crit damage with Fury. So, we multiply it with 2.551. And just to start skipping ahead, 1.1 iron sight, 1.1 ferocious strikes, 1.07 twin fangs, 1.05 lead attacks, 1.12 scholars and weapon sigils(they stack additively). So, thats 1997\*2.551\*1.1\*1.1\*1.07\*1.05\*1.12=7.7k. Hm, higher than I expected, still significantly lower than your 9k. And thats the highest damage you can do, and were not even going to address the fact that this hypotethical build is completely unplayable. > > > > > > > > > > Yes the SS were fabricated....... > > > > > Go test it in game, already gave you the build. > > > > > > > > > > Guess what else is unplayable? Power mesmer/mirage/chrono. > > > > > > > > I dont know what setup you used to pump up the damage numbers. But math (which is infallible) has shown the damage you have shown to be, simply put, impossible without fabrication. But just to humour you, I did test it. You get one guess what happened. If you guessed "the damage lined up *perfectly* with the math and was significantly lower than your fabricated damage", then congratulations. You are correct. Seriously though, you Mesmer mains take this roleplaying thing a bit too serious, just because your class is all about deception, doesnt mean you should be. > > > > > > > > Oh yeah, I forgot, we talked about the difference in burst between Mesmer and Thief. Ill quickly calculate Mesmers burst then. Im gonna actually use the metabattle build though instead of an artificial one that tries to up the damage as much as possible. Thieves armour rating is 2029. Now here is where it gets tricks, since Mesmer is multiple hits at the same time, the damage gets messy. Specifically, vulnerability from Mirror Blade and Power Spike, and Power from Mirror Blades might. Way Im going to handle it is that I simply apply it to the next one, so mirror blade wont benefit from its own vulnerability or might. Less damage than the actual burst, but easier to calculate. So, Mesmers power is 2375. With Mirror Blades might, its 2645. Power Spike applies 12 vulnerability, Mirror Blade applies 12. The scalings Ive mentioned above, but its 0.45 for Power Spike, Mirror blade 1.57. Mind Wrack 2.0. Greatswords weapon strength is 1015. Time to do math. > > > > > > > > So, were gonna calculate the 3 base damages first, then the multipliers. Power spike is (0.45\*2375\*1015)/2029=534. Mirror Blade is (1.57\*2375\*1015)/2029=1865. Mind Wrack is (2.0\*2645\*1015)/2029=2646. Now, multipliers. Power Spike gets affected by Scholar, the weapon sigils, and of course Superiority Complex boosted crit. So, 1.12 and 2.4. Thats 534\*1.12\*2.4=1435. Now, Mirror Blade. Here it gets more interesting. Since Power Spike did damage, egotism kicks in. Additionally, Power Spike applied 12 vulnerability, futher increasing damage by 18% thanks to Fragility. So its 1865\*1.12\*2.4\*1.05\*1.18=6211 damage. Now, at this point against a thief, Superiority Complex's second part would also kick in. But Im going to ignore it. Just because its too close (And unneccessary). However, now the target has 24 vulnerability. Which means 1.36 increase. Additionally, shatters benefit from Shattered Anguish, which adds another 1.2. So, thats 2646\*1.12\*2.4\*1.05\*1.36\*1.2= 12188 damage. Total damage: 1435+6211+12188=19834 damage. Remember, even your max malice malicious backstab didnt do this much damage. And Mesmers actual damage is *higher* since I didnt include Superiority Complex's second part, or the might and vulnerability on each hit of Mirror Blade. > > > > > > > > So yeah, Mesmers burst is way higher. And this is just the version that cant be reacted to. If you want more damage you can then follow up with Mind Stab and Phantasmal Berserker. But theyre totally superfluous. > > > > > > > > > > There is problem with this formula althought . > > > You make the assumption that ''all the attacks'' will always crit : > > > 1x Power Spike = 1 attack > > > 1x Mirror Blade + x1 bounce = 2 attacks > > > 1x Mind Wrack (each individual Clone crit , regadles of the other 2) = 3 attacks > > > > > > Total 6 attacks > > > > > > But in the other hand , you can do a Backstab + Heartseeker (before the the stealth render comes off) and do the same amount , with less RNG attacks > > > > > > > And you make the assumption that backstab and heartseeker will always crit. Also, no, thats not a good comparision, Heartseeker has a 0.75 second cast time. There is no such thing as "before the stealth render comes off". If we added another 0.75 seconds afterwards, the Mesmer would also get Phantasmal Berserker off, which makes them pull far ahead again. Anyway, if you look at perfect crits, average crits, or anything in between, Mesmer is far ahead of Thief. Mesmer with average crit chance will hit for 15-16k. Thief with average crit chance will hit for 10k or 4k, depending on whether his one attack crit. Thats if anything, more RNG than Mesmer, who since the damage is split into a number of hits, is less all or nothing. > > But you made the calculation based , on all attacks will crit (16k) > The average would be 50% (8k) > 19k, actually. And no, since Mesmer has Fury, the average would be 30% of the damage being divided by 2.4. Thats about 16k. > The cast time is 0.75 , which helps you leap forward > Mid air , if you touch somebody you istantly hit him . > The Systems doesnt ''force you'' to wait 0,75 and then attack That doesnt help you leap forward. Anyway, it also doesnt instantly hit anyone if you touch them mid-air. The damage comes on the downward strike. And it doesnt force you to wait, but it doesnt force you on phantasmal berserker either. The point is that if you add Heartseeker, you have to add Phantasmal Berserker. And thats a damage exchange that favours the Mesmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kuro.8937 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was photoshopped right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you can put your guitar back on the bag. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is it every time people talk about backstab people keep trying to pull the "fully malice stacked malicious backstab" move and expect it to work? Yes, a fully stacked malicious backstab can hit very hard. Photonic Blasting Module can hit *even harder*. Do you know what they share in common? You cant really hit them on enemies who arent AFK or lagging hard. Though, looking at that black powder damage, I also have the sneaking suspicion that you mightve taken off some of your gear to push the damage up. Because for Black Powder to do 1.5k, that requires a level of glass that even a zerkers Ele doesnt have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's instant. > > > > > > > > > > > > And the shadowshot ones are with 0 malice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was photoshopped right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you can put your guitar back on the bag. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is it every time people talk about backstab people keep trying to pull the "fully malice stacked malicious backstab" move and expect it to work? Yes, a fully stacked malicious backstab can hit very hard. Photonic Blasting Module can hit *even harder*. Do you know what they share in common? You cant really hit them on enemies who arent AFK or lagging hard. Though, looking at that black powder damage, I also have the sneaking suspicion that you mightve taken off some of your gear to push the damage up. Because for Black Powder to do 1.5k, that requires a level of glass that even a zerkers Ele doesnt have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's instant. > > > > > > > > > > > > And the shadowshot ones are with 0 malice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Powder -> 0.5 cast time > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heartseeker -> 0.75 cast time. > > > > > > > > > > > "Instant". I dont think you know what instant means. And Im pretty sure you needed a third attack too. All while the opponent did absolutely nothing against it. Yeah, so much for that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Shadowshot ones are also pretty clearly with you taking off your gear to push your defense stat lower to artificially up the damage. I dont have the time to do the *exact* math right now, but looking at the last time I did one of these calculations, this is about twice as much as is possible with the glassiest, highest damage build around. In other words, about what you would expect if a player were to take off their gear and lose all of the defense rating, lowering their armour in half and doubling the damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mirror blade 0,75 cast time > > > > > > > > > > Mind stab 0,25 cast time > > > > > > > > > > No instant huehuehue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mirror-blade is pre-cast within stealth (Which you cant do with Black Powder or Heartseeker as they are *the way you enter stealth in the first place*. Mind Stab is not neccessary for the combo. Bad excuse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BS, I was with all gear. It seems you're clueless regarding your own profession. > > > > > > > > > > It's easy go into arena, take all damage kitten you can get and test it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh please, thats a bad lie and you should know better than to stick with it. But dont worry, once Im back and have some time, Ill do the exact damage calculation and show that you in fact are lying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crit 3 2 1 > > > > > > > > Trickery 3 1 2 > > > > > > > > DE 1 1 2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Go test it, then come here to apologize. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: since you asked so nicely **this is without armor:** > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/a/FzkqVaw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets do the math then. Im assuming its PvP, so that makes my job easier. Mesmers armor rating is 1888. Thieves power with activated Assassins Signet and quickness is 3115. Its a dual weild, so it uses the daggers weapon strength. 922.5. Scaling is 1.3125. So, the base damage is 3115\*922.5\*1.3125/1888=1997. Now, we just multiply it with every damage modifier we have. First, crit. 255.1% crit damage with Fury. So, we multiply it with 2.551. And just to start skipping ahead, 1.1 iron sight, 1.1 ferocious strikes, 1.07 twin fangs, 1.05 lead attacks, 1.12 scholars and weapon sigils(they stack additively). So, thats 1997\*2.551\*1.1\*1.1\*1.07\*1.05\*1.12=7.7k. Hm, higher than I expected, still significantly lower than your 9k. And thats the highest damage you can do, and were not even going to address the fact that this hypotethical build is completely unplayable. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes the SS were fabricated....... > > > > > > Go test it in game, already gave you the build. > > > > > > > > > > > > Guess what else is unplayable? Power mesmer/mirage/chrono. > > > > > > > > > > I dont know what setup you used to pump up the damage numbers. But math (which is infallible) has shown the damage you have shown to be, simply put, impossible without fabrication. But just to humour you, I did test it. You get one guess what happened. If you guessed "the damage lined up *perfectly* with the math and was significantly lower than your fabricated damage", then congratulations. You are correct. Seriously though, you Mesmer mains take this roleplaying thing a bit too serious, just because your class is all about deception, doesnt mean you should be. > > > > > > > > > > Oh yeah, I forgot, we talked about the difference in burst between Mesmer and Thief. Ill quickly calculate Mesmers burst then. Im gonna actually use the metabattle build though instead of an artificial one that tries to up the damage as much as possible. Thieves armour rating is 2029. Now here is where it gets tricks, since Mesmer is multiple hits at the same time, the damage gets messy. Specifically, vulnerability from Mirror Blade and Power Spike, and Power from Mirror Blades might. Way Im going to handle it is that I simply apply it to the next one, so mirror blade wont benefit from its own vulnerability or might. Less damage than the actual burst, but easier to calculate. So, Mesmers power is 2375. With Mirror Blades might, its 2645. Power Spike applies 12 vulnerability, Mirror Blade applies 12. The scalings Ive mentioned above, but its 0.45 for Power Spike, Mirror blade 1.57. Mind Wrack 2.0. Greatswords weapon strength is 1015. Time to do math. > > > > > > > > > > So, were gonna calculate the 3 base damages first, then the multipliers. Power spike is (0.45\*2375\*1015)/2029=534. Mirror Blade is (1.57\*2375\*1015)/2029=1865. Mind Wrack is (2.0\*2645\*1015)/2029=2646. Now, multipliers. Power Spike gets affected by Scholar, the weapon sigils, and of course Superiority Complex boosted crit. So, 1.12 and 2.4. Thats 534\*1.12\*2.4=1435. Now, Mirror Blade. Here it gets more interesting. Since Power Spike did damage, egotism kicks in. Additionally, Power Spike applied 12 vulnerability, futher increasing damage by 18% thanks to Fragility. So its 1865\*1.12\*2.4\*1.05\*1.18=6211 damage. Now, at this point against a thief, Superiority Complex's second part would also kick in. But Im going to ignore it. Just because its too close (And unneccessary). However, now the target has 24 vulnerability. Which means 1.36 increase. Additionally, shatters benefit from Shattered Anguish, which adds another 1.2. So, thats 2646\*1.12\*2.4\*1.05\*1.36\*1.2= 12188 damage. Total damage: 1435+6211+12188=19834 damage. Remember, even your max malice malicious backstab didnt do this much damage. And Mesmers actual damage is *higher* since I didnt include Superiority Complex's second part, or the might and vulnerability on each hit of Mirror Blade. > > > > > > > > > > So yeah, Mesmers burst is way higher. And this is just the version that cant be reacted to. If you want more damage you can then follow up with Mind Stab and Phantasmal Berserker. But theyre totally superfluous. > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is problem with this formula althought . > > > > You make the assumption that ''all the attacks'' will always crit : > > > > 1x Power Spike = 1 attack > > > > 1x Mirror Blade + x1 bounce = 2 attacks > > > > 1x Mind Wrack (each individual Clone crit , regadles of the other 2) = 3 attacks > > > > > > > > Total 6 attacks > > > > > > > > But in the other hand , you can do a Backstab + Heartseeker (before the the stealth render comes off) and do the same amount , with less RNG attacks > > > > > > > > > > And you make the assumption that backstab and heartseeker will always crit. Also, no, thats not a good comparision, Heartseeker has a 0.75 second cast time. There is no such thing as "before the stealth render comes off". If we added another 0.75 seconds afterwards, the Mesmer would also get Phantasmal Berserker off, which makes them pull far ahead again. Anyway, if you look at perfect crits, average crits, or anything in between, Mesmer is far ahead of Thief. Mesmer with average crit chance will hit for 15-16k. Thief with average crit chance will hit for 10k or 4k, depending on whether his one attack crit. Thats if anything, more RNG than Mesmer, who since the damage is split into a number of hits, is less all or nothing. > > > > But you made the calculation based , on all attacks will crit (16k) > > The average would be 50% (8k) > > > > 19k, actually. And no, since Mesmer has Fury, the average would be 30% of the damage being divided by 2.4. Thats about 16k. > > > The cast time is 0.75 , which helps you leap forward > > Mid air , if you touch somebody you istantly hit him . > > The Systems doesnt ''force you'' to wait 0,75 and then attack > > That doesnt help you leap forward. Anyway, it also doesnt instantly hit anyone if you touch them mid-air. The damage comes on the downward strike. And it doesnt force you to wait, but it doesnt force you on phantasmal berserker either. The point is that if you add Heartseeker, you have to add Phantasmal Berserker. And thats a damage exchange that favours the Mesmer. But Berseker is too , multiply hit effects . Lets add 3 more attacks to that , totaling 9 attacks (if they crit) ? vs 2 of the thief (imagining if both had 16k hp) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was photoshopped right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you can put your guitar back on the bag. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is it every time people talk about backstab people keep trying to pull the "fully malice stacked malicious backstab" move and expect it to work? Yes, a fully stacked malicious backstab can hit very hard. Photonic Blasting Module can hit *even harder*. Do you know what they share in common? You cant really hit them on enemies who arent AFK or lagging hard. Though, looking at that black powder damage, I also have the sneaking suspicion that you mightve taken off some of your gear to push the damage up. Because for Black Powder to do 1.5k, that requires a level of glass that even a zerkers Ele doesnt have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's instant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the shadowshot ones are with 0 malice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was photoshopped right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you can put your guitar back on the bag. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is it every time people talk about backstab people keep trying to pull the "fully malice stacked malicious backstab" move and expect it to work? Yes, a fully stacked malicious backstab can hit very hard. Photonic Blasting Module can hit *even harder*. Do you know what they share in common? You cant really hit them on enemies who arent AFK or lagging hard. Though, looking at that black powder damage, I also have the sneaking suspicion that you mightve taken off some of your gear to push the damage up. Because for Black Powder to do 1.5k, that requires a level of glass that even a zerkers Ele doesnt have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's instant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the shadowshot ones are with 0 malice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Powder -> 0.5 cast time > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heartseeker -> 0.75 cast time. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Instant". I dont think you know what instant means. And Im pretty sure you needed a third attack too. All while the opponent did absolutely nothing against it. Yeah, so much for that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Shadowshot ones are also pretty clearly with you taking off your gear to push your defense stat lower to artificially up the damage. I dont have the time to do the *exact* math right now, but looking at the last time I did one of these calculations, this is about twice as much as is possible with the glassiest, highest damage build around. In other words, about what you would expect if a player were to take off their gear and lose all of the defense rating, lowering their armour in half and doubling the damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mirror blade 0,75 cast time > > > > > > > > > > > Mind stab 0,25 cast time > > > > > > > > > > > No instant huehuehue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mirror-blade is pre-cast within stealth (Which you cant do with Black Powder or Heartseeker as they are *the way you enter stealth in the first place*. Mind Stab is not neccessary for the combo. Bad excuse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BS, I was with all gear. It seems you're clueless regarding your own profession. > > > > > > > > > > > It's easy go into arena, take all damage kitten you can get and test it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh please, thats a bad lie and you should know better than to stick with it. But dont worry, once Im back and have some time, Ill do the exact damage calculation and show that you in fact are lying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crit 3 2 1 > > > > > > > > > Trickery 3 1 2 > > > > > > > > > DE 1 1 2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Go test it, then come here to apologize. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: since you asked so nicely **this is without armor:** > > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/a/FzkqVaw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets do the math then. Im assuming its PvP, so that makes my job easier. Mesmers armor rating is 1888. Thieves power with activated Assassins Signet and quickness is 3115. Its a dual weild, so it uses the daggers weapon strength. 922.5. Scaling is 1.3125. So, the base damage is 3115\*922.5\*1.3125/1888=1997. Now, we just multiply it with every damage modifier we have. First, crit. 255.1% crit damage with Fury. So, we multiply it with 2.551. And just to start skipping ahead, 1.1 iron sight, 1.1 ferocious strikes, 1.07 twin fangs, 1.05 lead attacks, 1.12 scholars and weapon sigils(they stack additively). So, thats 1997\*2.551\*1.1\*1.1\*1.07\*1.05\*1.12=7.7k. Hm, higher than I expected, still significantly lower than your 9k. And thats the highest damage you can do, and were not even going to address the fact that this hypotethical build is completely unplayable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes the SS were fabricated....... > > > > > > > Go test it in game, already gave you the build. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guess what else is unplayable? Power mesmer/mirage/chrono. > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont know what setup you used to pump up the damage numbers. But math (which is infallible) has shown the damage you have shown to be, simply put, impossible without fabrication. But just to humour you, I did test it. You get one guess what happened. If you guessed "the damage lined up *perfectly* with the math and was significantly lower than your fabricated damage", then congratulations. You are correct. Seriously though, you Mesmer mains take this roleplaying thing a bit too serious, just because your class is all about deception, doesnt mean you should be. > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh yeah, I forgot, we talked about the difference in burst between Mesmer and Thief. Ill quickly calculate Mesmers burst then. Im gonna actually use the metabattle build though instead of an artificial one that tries to up the damage as much as possible. Thieves armour rating is 2029. Now here is where it gets tricks, since Mesmer is multiple hits at the same time, the damage gets messy. Specifically, vulnerability from Mirror Blade and Power Spike, and Power from Mirror Blades might. Way Im going to handle it is that I simply apply it to the next one, so mirror blade wont benefit from its own vulnerability or might. Less damage than the actual burst, but easier to calculate. So, Mesmers power is 2375. With Mirror Blades might, its 2645. Power Spike applies 12 vulnerability, Mirror Blade applies 12. The scalings Ive mentioned above, but its 0.45 for Power Spike, Mirror blade 1.57. Mind Wrack 2.0. Greatswords weapon strength is 1015. Time to do math. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, were gonna calculate the 3 base damages first, then the multipliers. Power spike is (0.45\*2375\*1015)/2029=534. Mirror Blade is (1.57\*2375\*1015)/2029=1865. Mind Wrack is (2.0\*2645\*1015)/2029=2646. Now, multipliers. Power Spike gets affected by Scholar, the weapon sigils, and of course Superiority Complex boosted crit. So, 1.12 and 2.4. Thats 534\*1.12\*2.4=1435. Now, Mirror Blade. Here it gets more interesting. Since Power Spike did damage, egotism kicks in. Additionally, Power Spike applied 12 vulnerability, futher increasing damage by 18% thanks to Fragility. So its 1865\*1.12\*2.4\*1.05\*1.18=6211 damage. Now, at this point against a thief, Superiority Complex's second part would also kick in. But Im going to ignore it. Just because its too close (And unneccessary). However, now the target has 24 vulnerability. Which means 1.36 increase. Additionally, shatters benefit from Shattered Anguish, which adds another 1.2. So, thats 2646\*1.12\*2.4\*1.05\*1.36\*1.2= 12188 damage. Total damage: 1435+6211+12188=19834 damage. Remember, even your max malice malicious backstab didnt do this much damage. And Mesmers actual damage is *higher* since I didnt include Superiority Complex's second part, or the might and vulnerability on each hit of Mirror Blade. > > > > > > > > > > > > So yeah, Mesmers burst is way higher. And this is just the version that cant be reacted to. If you want more damage you can then follow up with Mind Stab and Phantasmal Berserker. But theyre totally superfluous. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is problem with this formula althought . > > > > > You make the assumption that ''all the attacks'' will always crit : > > > > > 1x Power Spike = 1 attack > > > > > 1x Mirror Blade + x1 bounce = 2 attacks > > > > > 1x Mind Wrack (each individual Clone crit , regadles of the other 2) = 3 attacks > > > > > > > > > > Total 6 attacks > > > > > > > > > > But in the other hand , you can do a Backstab + Heartseeker (before the the stealth render comes off) and do the same amount , with less RNG attacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > And you make the assumption that backstab and heartseeker will always crit. Also, no, thats not a good comparision, Heartseeker has a 0.75 second cast time. There is no such thing as "before the stealth render comes off". If we added another 0.75 seconds afterwards, the Mesmer would also get Phantasmal Berserker off, which makes them pull far ahead again. Anyway, if you look at perfect crits, average crits, or anything in between, Mesmer is far ahead of Thief. Mesmer with average crit chance will hit for 15-16k. Thief with average crit chance will hit for 10k or 4k, depending on whether his one attack crit. Thats if anything, more RNG than Mesmer, who since the damage is split into a number of hits, is less all or nothing. > > > > > > But you made the calculation based , on all attacks will crit (16k) > > > The average would be 50% (8k) > > > > > > > 19k, actually. And no, since Mesmer has Fury, the average would be 30% of the damage being divided by 2.4. Thats about 16k. > > > > > The cast time is 0.75 , which helps you leap forward > > > Mid air , if you touch somebody you istantly hit him . > > > The Systems doesnt ''force you'' to wait 0,75 and then attack > > > > That doesnt help you leap forward. Anyway, it also doesnt instantly hit anyone if you touch them mid-air. The damage comes on the downward strike. And it doesnt force you to wait, but it doesnt force you on phantasmal berserker either. The point is that if you add Heartseeker, you have to add Phantasmal Berserker. And thats a damage exchange that favours the Mesmer. > > But Berseker is too , multiply hit effects . > Lets add 3 more attacks to that , totaling 9 attacks (if they crit) ? > Vs 2 of the thief ? That doesnt matter, the total damage is higher, the randomness is lower. Mesmers burst is much better. So I fail to see your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kuro.8937 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was photoshopped right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you can put your guitar back on the bag. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is it every time people talk about backstab people keep trying to pull the "fully malice stacked malicious backstab" move and expect it to work? Yes, a fully stacked malicious backstab can hit very hard. Photonic Blasting Module can hit *even harder*. Do you know what they share in common? You cant really hit them on enemies who arent AFK or lagging hard. Though, looking at that black powder damage, I also have the sneaking suspicion that you mightve taken off some of your gear to push the damage up. Because for Black Powder to do 1.5k, that requires a level of glass that even a zerkers Ele doesnt have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's instant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the shadowshot ones are with 0 malice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was photoshopped right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you can put your guitar back on the bag. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is it every time people talk about backstab people keep trying to pull the "fully malice stacked malicious backstab" move and expect it to work? Yes, a fully stacked malicious backstab can hit very hard. Photonic Blasting Module can hit *even harder*. Do you know what they share in common? You cant really hit them on enemies who arent AFK or lagging hard. Though, looking at that black powder damage, I also have the sneaking suspicion that you mightve taken off some of your gear to push the damage up. Because for Black Powder to do 1.5k, that requires a level of glass that even a zerkers Ele doesnt have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's instant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the shadowshot ones are with 0 malice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Powder -> 0.5 cast time > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heartseeker -> 0.75 cast time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Instant". I dont think you know what instant means. And Im pretty sure you needed a third attack too. All while the opponent did absolutely nothing against it. Yeah, so much for that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Shadowshot ones are also pretty clearly with you taking off your gear to push your defense stat lower to artificially up the damage. I dont have the time to do the *exact* math right now, but looking at the last time I did one of these calculations, this is about twice as much as is possible with the glassiest, highest damage build around. In other words, about what you would expect if a player were to take off their gear and lose all of the defense rating, lowering their armour in half and doubling the damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mirror blade 0,75 cast time > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind stab 0,25 cast time > > > > > > > > > > > > No instant huehuehue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mirror-blade is pre-cast within stealth (Which you cant do with Black Powder or Heartseeker as they are *the way you enter stealth in the first place*. Mind Stab is not neccessary for the combo. Bad excuse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BS, I was with all gear. It seems you're clueless regarding your own profession. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's easy go into arena, take all damage kitten you can get and test it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh please, thats a bad lie and you should know better than to stick with it. But dont worry, once Im back and have some time, Ill do the exact damage calculation and show that you in fact are lying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crit 3 2 1 > > > > > > > > > > Trickery 3 1 2 > > > > > > > > > > DE 1 1 2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Go test it, then come here to apologize. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: since you asked so nicely **this is without armor:** > > > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/a/FzkqVaw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets do the math then. Im assuming its PvP, so that makes my job easier. Mesmers armor rating is 1888. Thieves power with activated Assassins Signet and quickness is 3115. Its a dual weild, so it uses the daggers weapon strength. 922.5. Scaling is 1.3125. So, the base damage is 3115\*922.5\*1.3125/1888=1997. Now, we just multiply it with every damage modifier we have. First, crit. 255.1% crit damage with Fury. So, we multiply it with 2.551. And just to start skipping ahead, 1.1 iron sight, 1.1 ferocious strikes, 1.07 twin fangs, 1.05 lead attacks, 1.12 scholars and weapon sigils(they stack additively). So, thats 1997\*2.551\*1.1\*1.1\*1.07\*1.05\*1.12=7.7k. Hm, higher than I expected, still significantly lower than your 9k. And thats the highest damage you can do, and were not even going to address the fact that this hypotethical build is completely unplayable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes the SS were fabricated....... > > > > > > > > Go test it in game, already gave you the build. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guess what else is unplayable? Power mesmer/mirage/chrono. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont know what setup you used to pump up the damage numbers. But math (which is infallible) has shown the damage you have shown to be, simply put, impossible without fabrication. But just to humour you, I did test it. You get one guess what happened. If you guessed "the damage lined up *perfectly* with the math and was significantly lower than your fabricated damage", then congratulations. You are correct. Seriously though, you Mesmer mains take this roleplaying thing a bit too serious, just because your class is all about deception, doesnt mean you should be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh yeah, I forgot, we talked about the difference in burst between Mesmer and Thief. Ill quickly calculate Mesmers burst then. Im gonna actually use the metabattle build though instead of an artificial one that tries to up the damage as much as possible. Thieves armour rating is 2029. Now here is where it gets tricks, since Mesmer is multiple hits at the same time, the damage gets messy. Specifically, vulnerability from Mirror Blade and Power Spike, and Power from Mirror Blades might. Way Im going to handle it is that I simply apply it to the next one, so mirror blade wont benefit from its own vulnerability or might. Less damage than the actual burst, but easier to calculate. So, Mesmers power is 2375. With Mirror Blades might, its 2645. Power Spike applies 12 vulnerability, Mirror Blade applies 12. The scalings Ive mentioned above, but its 0.45 for Power Spike, Mirror blade 1.57. Mind Wrack 2.0. Greatswords weapon strength is 1015. Time to do math. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, were gonna calculate the 3 base damages first, then the multipliers. Power spike is (0.45\*2375\*1015)/2029=534. Mirror Blade is (1.57\*2375\*1015)/2029=1865. Mind Wrack is (2.0\*2645\*1015)/2029=2646. Now, multipliers. Power Spike gets affected by Scholar, the weapon sigils, and of course Superiority Complex boosted crit. So, 1.12 and 2.4. Thats 534\*1.12\*2.4=1435. Now, Mirror Blade. Here it gets more interesting. Since Power Spike did damage, egotism kicks in. Additionally, Power Spike applied 12 vulnerability, futher increasing damage by 18% thanks to Fragility. So its 1865\*1.12\*2.4\*1.05\*1.18=6211 damage. Now, at this point against a thief, Superiority Complex's second part would also kick in. But Im going to ignore it. Just because its too close (And unneccessary). However, now the target has 24 vulnerability. Which means 1.36 increase. Additionally, shatters benefit from Shattered Anguish, which adds another 1.2. So, thats 2646\*1.12\*2.4\*1.05\*1.36\*1.2= 12188 damage. Total damage: 1435+6211+12188=19834 damage. Remember, even your max malice malicious backstab didnt do this much damage. And Mesmers actual damage is *higher* since I didnt include Superiority Complex's second part, or the might and vulnerability on each hit of Mirror Blade. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So yeah, Mesmers burst is way higher. And this is just the version that cant be reacted to. If you want more damage you can then follow up with Mind Stab and Phantasmal Berserker. But theyre totally superfluous. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is problem with this formula althought . > > > > > > You make the assumption that ''all the attacks'' will always crit : > > > > > > 1x Power Spike = 1 attack > > > > > > 1x Mirror Blade + x1 bounce = 2 attacks > > > > > > 1x Mind Wrack (each individual Clone crit , regadles of the other 2) = 3 attacks > > > > > > > > > > > > Total 6 attacks > > > > > > > > > > > > But in the other hand , you can do a Backstab + Heartseeker (before the the stealth render comes off) and do the same amount , with less RNG attacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And you make the assumption that backstab and heartseeker will always crit. Also, no, thats not a good comparision, Heartseeker has a 0.75 second cast time. There is no such thing as "before the stealth render comes off". If we added another 0.75 seconds afterwards, the Mesmer would also get Phantasmal Berserker off, which makes them pull far ahead again. Anyway, if you look at perfect crits, average crits, or anything in between, Mesmer is far ahead of Thief. Mesmer with average crit chance will hit for 15-16k. Thief with average crit chance will hit for 10k or 4k, depending on whether his one attack crit. Thats if anything, more RNG than Mesmer, who since the damage is split into a number of hits, is less all or nothing. > > > > > > > > But you made the calculation based , on all attacks will crit (16k) > > > > The average would be 50% (8k) > > > > > > > > > > 19k, actually. And no, since Mesmer has Fury, the average would be 30% of the damage being divided by 2.4. Thats about 16k. > > > > > > > The cast time is 0.75 , which helps you leap forward > > > > Mid air , if you touch somebody you istantly hit him . > > > > The Systems doesnt ''force you'' to wait 0,75 and then attack > > > > > > That doesnt help you leap forward. Anyway, it also doesnt instantly hit anyone if you touch them mid-air. The damage comes on the downward strike. And it doesnt force you to wait, but it doesnt force you on phantasmal berserker either. The point is that if you add Heartseeker, you have to add Phantasmal Berserker. And thats a damage exchange that favours the Mesmer. > > > > But Berseker is too , multiply hit effects . > > Lets add 3 more attacks to that , totaling 9 attacks (if they crit) ? > > Vs 2 of the thief ? > > That doesnt matter, the total damage is higher, the randomness is lower. Mesmers burst is much better. So I fail to see your point. But if the hp stays the same (16k in both targets) , it doesnt matter if someone is doing 16k vs 25 k with 100% crit chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was photoshopped right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you can put your guitar back on the bag. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is it every time people talk about backstab people keep trying to pull the "fully malice stacked malicious backstab" move and expect it to work? Yes, a fully stacked malicious backstab can hit very hard. Photonic Blasting Module can hit *even harder*. Do you know what they share in common? You cant really hit them on enemies who arent AFK or lagging hard. Though, looking at that black powder damage, I also have the sneaking suspicion that you mightve taken off some of your gear to push the damage up. Because for Black Powder to do 1.5k, that requires a level of glass that even a zerkers Ele doesnt have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's instant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the shadowshot ones are with 0 malice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was photoshopped right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you can put your guitar back on the bag. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is it every time people talk about backstab people keep trying to pull the "fully malice stacked malicious backstab" move and expect it to work? Yes, a fully stacked malicious backstab can hit very hard. Photonic Blasting Module can hit *even harder*. Do you know what they share in common? You cant really hit them on enemies who arent AFK or lagging hard. Though, looking at that black powder damage, I also have the sneaking suspicion that you mightve taken off some of your gear to push the damage up. Because for Black Powder to do 1.5k, that requires a level of glass that even a zerkers Ele doesnt have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's instant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the shadowshot ones are with 0 malice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Powder -> 0.5 cast time > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heartseeker -> 0.75 cast time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Instant". I dont think you know what instant means. And Im pretty sure you needed a third attack too. All while the opponent did absolutely nothing against it. Yeah, so much for that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Shadowshot ones are also pretty clearly with you taking off your gear to push your defense stat lower to artificially up the damage. I dont have the time to do the *exact* math right now, but looking at the last time I did one of these calculations, this is about twice as much as is possible with the glassiest, highest damage build around. In other words, about what you would expect if a player were to take off their gear and lose all of the defense rating, lowering their armour in half and doubling the damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mirror blade 0,75 cast time > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind stab 0,25 cast time > > > > > > > > > > > > > No instant huehuehue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mirror-blade is pre-cast within stealth (Which you cant do with Black Powder or Heartseeker as they are *the way you enter stealth in the first place*. Mind Stab is not neccessary for the combo. Bad excuse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BS, I was with all gear. It seems you're clueless regarding your own profession. > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's easy go into arena, take all damage kitten you can get and test it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh please, thats a bad lie and you should know better than to stick with it. But dont worry, once Im back and have some time, Ill do the exact damage calculation and show that you in fact are lying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crit 3 2 1 > > > > > > > > > > > Trickery 3 1 2 > > > > > > > > > > > DE 1 1 2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Go test it, then come here to apologize. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: since you asked so nicely **this is without armor:** > > > > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/a/FzkqVaw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets do the math then. Im assuming its PvP, so that makes my job easier. Mesmers armor rating is 1888. Thieves power with activated Assassins Signet and quickness is 3115. Its a dual weild, so it uses the daggers weapon strength. 922.5. Scaling is 1.3125. So, the base damage is 3115\*922.5\*1.3125/1888=1997. Now, we just multiply it with every damage modifier we have. First, crit. 255.1% crit damage with Fury. So, we multiply it with 2.551. And just to start skipping ahead, 1.1 iron sight, 1.1 ferocious strikes, 1.07 twin fangs, 1.05 lead attacks, 1.12 scholars and weapon sigils(they stack additively). So, thats 1997\*2.551\*1.1\*1.1\*1.07\*1.05\*1.12=7.7k. Hm, higher than I expected, still significantly lower than your 9k. And thats the highest damage you can do, and were not even going to address the fact that this hypotethical build is completely unplayable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes the SS were fabricated....... > > > > > > > > > Go test it in game, already gave you the build. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guess what else is unplayable? Power mesmer/mirage/chrono. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont know what setup you used to pump up the damage numbers. But math (which is infallible) has shown the damage you have shown to be, simply put, impossible without fabrication. But just to humour you, I did test it. You get one guess what happened. If you guessed "the damage lined up *perfectly* with the math and was significantly lower than your fabricated damage", then congratulations. You are correct. Seriously though, you Mesmer mains take this roleplaying thing a bit too serious, just because your class is all about deception, doesnt mean you should be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh yeah, I forgot, we talked about the difference in burst between Mesmer and Thief. Ill quickly calculate Mesmers burst then. Im gonna actually use the metabattle build though instead of an artificial one that tries to up the damage as much as possible. Thieves armour rating is 2029. Now here is where it gets tricks, since Mesmer is multiple hits at the same time, the damage gets messy. Specifically, vulnerability from Mirror Blade and Power Spike, and Power from Mirror Blades might. Way Im going to handle it is that I simply apply it to the next one, so mirror blade wont benefit from its own vulnerability or might. Less damage than the actual burst, but easier to calculate. So, Mesmers power is 2375. With Mirror Blades might, its 2645. Power Spike applies 12 vulnerability, Mirror Blade applies 12. The scalings Ive mentioned above, but its 0.45 for Power Spike, Mirror blade 1.57. Mind Wrack 2.0. Greatswords weapon strength is 1015. Time to do math. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, were gonna calculate the 3 base damages first, then the multipliers. Power spike is (0.45\*2375\*1015)/2029=534. Mirror Blade is (1.57\*2375\*1015)/2029=1865. Mind Wrack is (2.0\*2645\*1015)/2029=2646. Now, multipliers. Power Spike gets affected by Scholar, the weapon sigils, and of course Superiority Complex boosted crit. So, 1.12 and 2.4. Thats 534\*1.12\*2.4=1435. Now, Mirror Blade. Here it gets more interesting. Since Power Spike did damage, egotism kicks in. Additionally, Power Spike applied 12 vulnerability, futher increasing damage by 18% thanks to Fragility. So its 1865\*1.12\*2.4\*1.05\*1.18=6211 damage. Now, at this point against a thief, Superiority Complex's second part would also kick in. But Im going to ignore it. Just because its too close (And unneccessary). However, now the target has 24 vulnerability. Which means 1.36 increase. Additionally, shatters benefit from Shattered Anguish, which adds another 1.2. So, thats 2646\*1.12\*2.4\*1.05\*1.36\*1.2= 12188 damage. Total damage: 1435+6211+12188=19834 damage. Remember, even your max malice malicious backstab didnt do this much damage. And Mesmers actual damage is *higher* since I didnt include Superiority Complex's second part, or the might and vulnerability on each hit of Mirror Blade. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So yeah, Mesmers burst is way higher. And this is just the version that cant be reacted to. If you want more damage you can then follow up with Mind Stab and Phantasmal Berserker. But theyre totally superfluous. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is problem with this formula althought . > > > > > > > You make the assumption that ''all the attacks'' will always crit : > > > > > > > 1x Power Spike = 1 attack > > > > > > > 1x Mirror Blade + x1 bounce = 2 attacks > > > > > > > 1x Mind Wrack (each individual Clone crit , regadles of the other 2) = 3 attacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Total 6 attacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But in the other hand , you can do a Backstab + Heartseeker (before the the stealth render comes off) and do the same amount , with less RNG attacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And you make the assumption that backstab and heartseeker will always crit. Also, no, thats not a good comparision, Heartseeker has a 0.75 second cast time. There is no such thing as "before the stealth render comes off". If we added another 0.75 seconds afterwards, the Mesmer would also get Phantasmal Berserker off, which makes them pull far ahead again. Anyway, if you look at perfect crits, average crits, or anything in between, Mesmer is far ahead of Thief. Mesmer with average crit chance will hit for 15-16k. Thief with average crit chance will hit for 10k or 4k, depending on whether his one attack crit. Thats if anything, more RNG than Mesmer, who since the damage is split into a number of hits, is less all or nothing. > > > > > > > > > > But you made the calculation based , on all attacks will crit (16k) > > > > > The average would be 50% (8k) > > > > > > > > > > > > > 19k, actually. And no, since Mesmer has Fury, the average would be 30% of the damage being divided by 2.4. Thats about 16k. > > > > > > > > > The cast time is 0.75 , which helps you leap forward > > > > > Mid air , if you touch somebody you istantly hit him . > > > > > The Systems doesnt ''force you'' to wait 0,75 and then attack > > > > > > > > That doesnt help you leap forward. Anyway, it also doesnt instantly hit anyone if you touch them mid-air. The damage comes on the downward strike. And it doesnt force you to wait, but it doesnt force you on phantasmal berserker either. The point is that if you add Heartseeker, you have to add Phantasmal Berserker. And thats a damage exchange that favours the Mesmer. > > > > > > But Berseker is too , multiply hit effects . > > > Lets add 3 more attacks to that , totaling 9 attacks (if they crit) ? > > > Vs 2 of the thief ? > > > > That doesnt matter, the total damage is higher, the randomness is lower. Mesmers burst is much better. So I fail to see your point. > > But if the hp stays the same (16k in both targets) , it doesnt matter if someone is doing 16k vs 25 k with 100% crit chance > I mean, yes, but the average build nowadays has much more than 10k health which is thieves highest damage. Mesmer can still kill, Thief cant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 you fail to realize that if you fail to land the first crits you dont get to get the fury for important hits. rng be RNG why didnt you post entire thief combo like you did with mesmer? where is mug? where are leeching venom procs? where is opening hearthseeker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > you fail to realize that if you fail to land the first crits you dont get to get the fury for important hits. > rng be RNG > why didnt you post entire thief combo like you did with mesmer? > where is mug? where are leeching venom procs? where is opening hearthseeker? Luckily uncle Lincoln got your back and not with "favorable" calculations. With factual proof: https://m.imgur.com/a/dK3LEk6 DE https://m.imgur.com/rWjFSgh Like I said above if you as a thief main can't replicate the numbers that one guy who doesn't play thief, that slapped in a build in some seconds, did, perhaps you don't understand your own profession that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorhuz.4695 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > That was *outside* of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab. The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can. Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > you fail to realize that if you fail to land the first crits you dont get to get the fury for important hits. > rng be RNG > why didnt you post entire thief combo like you did with mesmer? > where is mug? where are leeching venom procs? where is opening hearthseeker? "Opening Heartseeker" isnt a thing. If the Thief is using Black Powder + Heartseeker on you out of stealth, you should be able to CC and kill them then and there. Anyway, I didnt include Mug or Leeching Venom because theyre incredibly low damage. But if you want, add about 1.5k to the 10k on a squishy. Still much lower than 19k or even 16k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > you fail to realize that if you fail to land the first crits you dont get to get the fury for important hits. > > rng be RNG > > why didnt you post entire thief combo like you did with mesmer? > > where is mug? where are leeching venom procs? where is opening hearthseeker? > > Luckily uncle Lincoln got your back and not with "favorable" calculations. With factual proof: > https://m.imgur.com/a/dK3LEk6 > > DE > https://m.imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > Like I said above if you as a thief main can't replicate the numbers that one guy who doesn't play thief, that slapped in a build in some seconds, did, perhaps you don't understand your own profession that much. > Please, youve already been shown to lie and fabricate your screenshots to achieve damage that is higher than actually possible (which testing did in fact confirm), so why are you repeating your fabrication as if anyone isnt aware already that they are nothing more than lies? Which is to say nothing of the fact that you tried to pull the "fully stacked malicious backstab that never happens" *again*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > That was *outside* of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab. > > The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can. > Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway. Thats the thing. If the Mesmer doesnt oneshot, he is still favoured. Yes, the thief can run away much better, but that doesnt make the thief *win* the fight, now does it? Now, lets say the thief is stupid enough to fight. Well, the Mesmer has about 30% more effective HP, much higher damage, better CC lockdown (which isnt saying much tbh, Thief typicall has a daze and thats it), *very* slightly better sustain (healing about 1k extra every 25 seconds) and better defensive options. The thief has .... well he can run away better. Thats it though. Maybe if were talking condi thief, thatd be a different story, but then reflect would be a big deal, and I also have that sneaking suspicion you werent talking about condi thieves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > you fail to realize that if you fail to land the first crits you dont get to get the fury for important hits. > > > rng be RNG > > > why didnt you post entire thief combo like you did with mesmer? > > > where is mug? where are leeching venom procs? where is opening hearthseeker? > > > > Luckily uncle Lincoln got your back and not with "favorable" calculations. With factual proof: > > https://m.imgur.com/a/dK3LEk6 > > > > DE > > https://m.imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > > > Like I said above if you as a thief main can't replicate the numbers that one guy who doesn't play thief, that slapped in a build in some seconds, did, perhaps you don't understand your own profession that much. > > > > Please, youve already been shown to lie and fabricate your screenshots to achieve damage that is higher than actually possible (which testing did in fact confirm), so why are you repeating your fabrication as if anyone isnt aware already that they are nothing more than lies? Which is to say nothing of the fact that you tried to pull the "fully stacked malicious backstab that never happens" *again*. Learn your profession first then talk. Everyone can login on game, change to the build above, do the same damage and see who is the liar here, you're just embarrassing yourself. Edit: to say that power mes has a favoured match against thief proves how much you know about this game - 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostof Luzifer.6159 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > That was *outside* of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab. > > > > The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can. > > Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway. > > Thats the thing. If the Mesmer doesnt oneshot, he is still favoured. Yes, the thief can run away much better, but that doesnt make the thief *win* the fight, now does it? Now, lets say the thief is stupid enough to fight. Well, the Mesmer has about 30% more effective HP, much higher damage, better CC lockdown (which isnt saying much tbh, Thief typicall has a daze and thats it), *very* slightly better sustain (healing about 1k extra every 25 seconds) and better defensive options. The thief has .... well he can run away better. Thats it though. Maybe if were talking condi thief, thatd be a different story, but then reflect would be a big deal, and I also have that sneaking suspicion you werent talking about condi thieves. thief is a counter to mesmer. condi or power mesmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > you fail to realize that if you fail to land the first crits you dont get to get the fury for important hits. > > > > rng be RNG > > > > why didnt you post entire thief combo like you did with mesmer? > > > > where is mug? where are leeching venom procs? where is opening hearthseeker? > > > > > > Luckily uncle Lincoln got your back and not with "favorable" calculations. With factual proof: > > > https://m.imgur.com/a/dK3LEk6 > > > > > > DE > > > https://m.imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > > > > > Like I said above if you as a thief main can't replicate the numbers that one guy who doesn't play thief, that slapped in a build in some seconds, did, perhaps you don't understand your own profession that much. > > > > > > > Please, youve already been shown to lie and fabricate your screenshots to achieve damage that is higher than actually possible (which testing did in fact confirm), so why are you repeating your fabrication as if anyone isnt aware already that they are nothing more than lies? Which is to say nothing of the fact that you tried to pull the "fully stacked malicious backstab that never happens" *again*. > > Learn your profession first then talk. > > Everyone can login on game, change to the build above, do the same damage and see who is the liar here, you're just embarrassing yourself. > > Edit: to say that power mes has a favoured match against thief proves how much you know about this game - 0 Yes, everyone can. They can login, change to your build, try to do what you do and see "whoops, the damage is much lower than what he was showing. How very peculiar". Remember, I *already did*. I even showed you the screenshot showing the damage to be much lower than what you claimed, while being almost perfectly in line with what the infallible math showed. Im not sure why youre doubling down on your lie, despite both math and in-game testing both already proving that it is a lie. Hell, lets take a *real* quick look at that first fabrication you reposted. It shows Mug doing 1935 damage. Mug, with Scholars active and activated Assassins Signet, does 1334 damage to a light armoured class with no extra toughness. But ... there arent actually many thief traits left that could amp Mug damage. The crit stuff all obviously doesnt work. So how did you get 1935, hm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodle Ant.1605 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > Mug, with Scholars active and activated Assassins Signet, does 1334 damage to a light armoured class with no extra toughness... So how did you get 1935, hm? I applied math. 1334 * 1.15 * 1.07 * 1.05 * 1.05 * (1.02*3) = 1918 (close enough, didn’t calculate any might/vuln). Don’t reply to me, I shouldn’t be here at all but I wanted to do math (and solve the puzzle). The evidence, apart from the 3 (an assumption), can all be found in the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArlAlt.1630 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 > @"Noodle Ant.1605" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > Mug, with Scholars active and activated Assassins Signet, does 1334 damage to a light armoured class with no extra toughness... So how did you get 1935, hm? > > I applied math. > > 1334 * 1.15 * 1.07 * 1.05 * 1.05 * (1.02*3) = 1918 (close enough, didn’t calculate any might/vuln). > > Don’t reply to me, I shouldn’t be here at all but I wanted to do math (and solve the puzzle). The evidence, apart from the 3 (an assumption), can all be found in the picture. Ouch! Is this 911? I'd like to report a murder. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 > @"Noodle Ant.1605" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > Mug, with Scholars active and activated Assassins Signet, does 1334 damage to a light armoured class with no extra toughness... So how did you get 1935, hm? > > I applied math. > > 1334 * 1.15 * 1.07 * 1.05 * 1.05 * (1.02*3) = 1918 (close enough, didn’t calculate any might/vuln). > > Don’t reply to me, I shouldn’t be here at all but I wanted to do math (and solve the puzzle). The evidence, apart from the 3 (an assumption), can all be found in the picture. Tiny issue, you did not actually notate what *any* of those multipliers you wrote down are. Also, your formula comes out to 5537 damage, not 1918. Plus, if I had to guess, Id say that you included several multipliers that werent actually applying. Remember, the damage from Mug does not benefit from any of the other things Steal applies, they happen at the same time. Edit: for the sake of clarity, my assumption is 1.07 is weakening strikes, 1.06 (which he wrote as 1.02\*3) is exposed weakness, 1.15 probably is bounding dodger, the 2 1.05 ones however are a mystery. I suspect one is Scholars that he applied again despite me explaining that 1334 is *with* scholars active. 1.07, 1.06 both do not apply, as the Mug damage does not get amped by the conditions swipe applies. Though, even if it *did* apply, given that its impossible to have Mug without those active, they would be included in 1334 anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 this is the dumbest thread this month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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