I really want to like GW2, but the PvE is a huge turn off

[LucianDK.8615]

Mounts makes hot completely trivial. Especially the skyscale. And it seriously doesnt take that long to unlock all masteries. Especially if youve kept up to date on living world episodes that adds a huge load.

[Luthan.5236]

I have only played HoT so far: Most easier achievements and all mastery points and strongboxes and the story - exept 2 achievements from last act - done. It was okay with guides. More the navigating and finding stuff by yourself was harder then in the core game. (I heard it will be a bit easier in the other maps of PoF ... bigger but easier to navigate.)

 

My fun mainly comes from PvP (WvW is boring though) and doing story and completion/exploring. PvE events for the first tim are also fun. But other than that it is boring. (Then again I don't like "harder" games like WoW and find the easy stuff good. Also the optional achievement that make some stuff harder - but optional. Diving googles and stuff.)

 

Mastery is actually a nice system. Having to unlock certain stuff ... to make the progressin a bit slower. Then again only having do to it once per account while still having stuff do to on other stuff. (Not making it boring by NOT having to do map completion on other chars. But not making it tooo hard to complete everythign on other chars by having ONLY the map completion making it possible to rush faster since certain other stuff done on the main had to be done only there - masteries and achievements.)

 

I can say I like the system. I plan to finish GW1 - Factions next (playing in realease ordre), then doing Nightfall and GW2 - LS3 (so I'll have explored a bit of Elona already in GW1 before going ther ein GW2).

 

I understand players that don't like GW2 because it is too easy compared to other MMO or they don't like jumping stuff (too hard and prefer click to attack only and only doing raids and no jumping - that type of players exists). Also the ones rushign too fast ... always wanting new content. Well personally I like the game. Still lots of stuff left since I took a long break from 2013-2019. And I can do just PvP should I finish all PvE stuff ... or play some other games.

 

After buying HoT+PoF when it was recently on sale while focussing on HoT (I did not get mounts yet) I think I have already about 100 HoT mastery points (only from HoT, no LS3 stuff touched yet!) ... having used about 30 of them. (If I hadn't played a lot of PvE and grinded events more I'd have leveled more masteries already by now.) I played with guides though and I have a lot free time to play.

[Vayne.8563]

> @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > @"Kunzaito.8169" said:

> > > > @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > > > Breakbars have to be my least favourite "expansion" update

> > >

> > > Wut? This seems like rose-tinted memory if I've ever seen it. Breakbars are a huge improvement over the fussy defiance stack mechanic we started with, where it was hard to see how many were left, every CC took off 1 stack no matter how strong, and a stray blind could screw up the stun you wanted to land and reset all the stacks. Plus many bosses just couldnt be CCd at all due to the way that being moved could affect them, or that they could be shut down completely if the stacks got stripped too fast.

> > >

> > > Breakbar at least is highly visible and gives a consistent, reliable use for/result to using CC in bigger fights and allows for specific mechanics around it. (Except the few fights where you want to avoid breaking the bar, which is not communicated organically, just by other players yelling futilely in map chat)

> > >

> >

> > I think he is talking about time before that, time when your CC effects actually worked against bosses and you could CC chain the boss etc.

>

> Exactly.

>

> If I think a boss attacks too fast, I should be encouraged to chill it.

>

> If I think a boss moves too fast, I should be encouaged to use cripple or immobilise.

>

> If I think a boss heals too much, I should be encouraged to use poison.

>

> If I think a boss has a skill I don't want to see them use, I should be encouraged to stun, daze, lift, push, pull...

>

>

>

> I think defiance and breakbars were both terrible, lazy systems that the general player never understood. Out of the two, breakbars are the one I hate the most because they slapped it onto dungeon bosses without taking into account people used cc to deal with boss mechanics correctly (ie. not use powercrept dps to make mechanics irrelivant).

 

Definance in dungeons existed long before break bars. It did much the same thing. They simply changed it to a bar. Dungeon bosses were always immune to CC except as a way to stun them when they lost all their stacks of defiance. It was far worse before and far fewer people understood it.

[TheMaverick.6104]

Im currently at Max mastery level minus the raid related levels. Never worked specifically to get there. I followed the story, checked the maps a bit as i went. Maybe i checked an achievement that was almost done. Dont force it harder than you have to.

[Vayne.8563]

The stuff you consider a turn off is an important part of the game for me.

 

The difficulty of the HOT zones, along with the complexity of navigation makes those zones my favorite in the game.

 

MMOs are, and have always been, about progression. Without leveling and gear progression, there's only story progression ( which works for some people) and mastery/elite spec progression. I can unlock an entire elite spec solo in under 2 hours in HoT. Masteries are what kept me playing.

 

Without the progression some people would burn through the story and zones and then complain there's nothing to do.

[AliamRationem.5172]

Imo, GW2 has the best open world gameplay of any MMO I've played. The expansions just made that part better.

 

Where GW2 loses me is instanced pve. Non trinity is just not as interesting for that.

[lare.5129]

I play gw2 6+ years, and don't feel any trouble if don't do some part content.

For example I don't go raid. Feel good.

[kharmin.7683]

Unfortunately, not every game is for everyone. I really wanted to like Blade and Soul, but there were aspects of the game play that just didn't work for me. So, I'm here instead playing a game which is more to my liking and my more casual style.

[Rasimir.6239]

> @"Dave.6819" said:

> For example... try to do a Griffon or Skyscale without any guides. No google no dulfy no nothing... It's a complete headache and confusion.

Doing the Skyscale achievements without a guide was one of the most fun I've had in more than 7 years of playing this game. Those achievements/scavenger hunts are very well made and easily doable if you just take the hints and explore around. I was actually a little bit disappointed when I was done with them not two weeks after the release of the mount. Personally I'd welcome more exploration and puzzles (like the Skyscale achievements or the light puzzles in Bjora Marches) to figure out in this game rather than less.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Drennon.7190" said:

> Core GW2 was an amazing experience. Explore the world, complete hearts/events that pop up and follow the store.

> However, these expansions are not enjoyable. Instead of following along and enjoying the maps/stories, there are tedious systems in place that suck the enjoyment out of it.

> Masteries do not feel good. See that mastery point up there? Sorry, you need to unlock other master points first so that you can level a different master to get up the that point that's right in front of you.

> Mob density is insane. In the expansions, you can no longer just walk around and enjoy the scenery without being bombarded.

> Jump puzzles for mastery points... I have difficulty believing that mastery points should be behind jump puzzles. Jump puzzles are more frustration than fun.

 

HoT is insanely more difficult than Core, but that's a problem with Core, not HoT. When I got to HoT on my 1st character, I died constantly, to the point where I decided I didn't want to play that profession anymore and rolled another toon. But today, 2+ years later, I wander HoT with confidence because I'm way better at, and more knowledgeable, about the game.

 

The mastery system is a pain, true, but it's a temporary condition, since you only need to do it once per account, and the community still runs HP / map completion trains regularly. Just yesterday I was in Tangled Depths (still can't find my way around there) and I happened on a commander and opted to follow them; we killed two different champs I'd never killed before, and picked up 2 extra mastery points (I've long since completed all HoT masteries though). And I still have all the adventure achievements left unfinished.

 

Path of Fire does even things out a bit, though mob density and condition spamming is still much worse than Orr or other Core maps (oh the crippling...), but the mastery gating is more tied to your mounts, and less to "can I use this mushroom now?" type thing.

[Westenev.5289]

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > > @"Kunzaito.8169" said:

> > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > > > > Breakbars have to be my least favourite "expansion" update

> > > >

> > > > Wut? This seems like rose-tinted memory if I've ever seen it. Breakbars are a huge improvement over the fussy defiance stack mechanic we started with, where it was hard to see how many were left, every CC took off 1 stack no matter how strong, and a stray blind could screw up the stun you wanted to land and reset all the stacks. Plus many bosses just couldnt be CCd at all due to the way that being moved could affect them, or that they could be shut down completely if the stacks got stripped too fast.

> > > >

> > > > Breakbar at least is highly visible and gives a consistent, reliable use for/result to using CC in bigger fights and allows for specific mechanics around it. (Except the few fights where you want to avoid breaking the bar, which is not communicated organically, just by other players yelling futilely in map chat)

> > > >

> > >

> > > I think he is talking about time before that, time when your CC effects actually worked against bosses and you could CC chain the boss etc.

> >

> > Exactly.

> >

> > If I think a boss attacks too fast, I should be encouraged to chill it.

> >

> > If I think a boss moves too fast, I should be encouaged to use cripple or immobilise.

> >

> > If I think a boss heals too much, I should be encouraged to use poison.

> >

> > If I think a boss has a skill I don't want to see them use, I should be encouraged to stun, daze, lift, push, pull...

> >

> >

> >

> > I think defiance and breakbars were both terrible, lazy systems that the general player never understood. Out of the two, breakbars are the one I hate the most because they slapped it onto dungeon bosses without taking into account people used cc to deal with boss mechanics correctly (ie. not use powercrept dps to make mechanics irrelivant).

>

> Definance in dungeons existed long before break bars. It did much the same thing. They simply changed it to a bar. Dungeon bosses were always immune to CC except as a way to stun them when they lost all their stacks of defiance. It was far worse before and far fewer people understood it.

 

But for bosses who didn't have defiance but gained a breakbar (ie. Ghost Eater), controlling their pathing became much harder since pulls no longer worked. This is the core reason I hate breakbars, not because I love defiance. If I had my way, both systems would be abandoned.

[Kunzaito.8169]

> > > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > > I think he is talking about time before that, time when your CC effects actually worked against bosses and you could CC chain the boss etc.

 

I don't think there was a time when all enemies in the game could be CC'd ad libitum, but I could be wrong. If there was, it was patched pretty quick for obvious reasons.

 

> @"Westenev.5289" said:

> But for bosses who didn't have defiance but gained a breakbar (ie. Ghost Eater), controlling their pathing became much harder since pulls no longer worked. This is the core reason I hate breakbars, not because I love defiance. If I had my way, both systems would be abandoned.

 

That represents a very small minority of bosses, and there's no way that allowing unlimited CC of bosses would be a mechanic that would work in most content going forward. Your idea of 1 to 1 response of a boss' behavior to specific conditions is fine playing solo, but utterly breaks down in open world and even small group content. If you can just chain CC a boss into not being able to do anything while you kill it (very easy to do with 5 and certainly 10 players), that trivializes content even more than you think breakbars do. There are 0 mechanics then. The other alternative is just making CC 100% ineffective, which also is reductive and not fun and loses a chance to make phased behaviors and mechanics.

 

Some of the things you want actually are in the game with breakbars - some bosses have a heal phase that must be broken, or spawn a healing add that you have to take out. Others have deadly skills that will hit if you don't break the bar.

 

 

[sokeenoppa.5384]

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > > @"Kunzaito.8169" said:

> > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > > > > Breakbars have to be my least favourite "expansion" update

> > > >

> > > > Wut? This seems like rose-tinted memory if I've ever seen it. Breakbars are a huge improvement over the fussy defiance stack mechanic we started with, where it was hard to see how many were left, every CC took off 1 stack no matter how strong, and a stray blind could screw up the stun you wanted to land and reset all the stacks. Plus many bosses just couldnt be CCd at all due to the way that being moved could affect them, or that they could be shut down completely if the stacks got stripped too fast.

> > > >

> > > > Breakbar at least is highly visible and gives a consistent, reliable use for/result to using CC in bigger fights and allows for specific mechanics around it. (Except the few fights where you want to avoid breaking the bar, which is not communicated organically, just by other players yelling futilely in map chat)

> > > >

> > >

> > > I think he is talking about time before that, time when your CC effects actually worked against bosses and you could CC chain the boss etc.

> >

> > Exactly.

> >

> > If I think a boss attacks too fast, I should be encouraged to chill it.

> >

> > If I think a boss moves too fast, I should be encouaged to use cripple or immobilise.

> >

> > If I think a boss heals too much, I should be encouraged to use poison.

> >

> > If I think a boss has a skill I don't want to see them use, I should be encouraged to stun, daze, lift, push, pull...

> >

> >

> >

> > I think defiance and breakbars were both terrible, lazy systems that the general player never understood. Out of the two, breakbars are the one I hate the most because they slapped it onto dungeon bosses without taking into account people used cc to deal with boss mechanics correctly (ie. not use powercrept dps to make mechanics irrelivant).

>

> Definance in dungeons existed long before break bars. It did much the same thing. They simply changed it to a bar. Dungeon bosses were always immune to CC except as a way to stun them when they lost all their stacks of defiance. It was far worse before and far fewer people understood it.

 

Lies. Long time ago you could CC bosses. Take ralena and vassar in AC for example, it was a common strat to use knockbacks to keep them away from each others.

[sokeenoppa.5384]

> @"Kunzaito.8169" said:

> > > > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > > > I think he is talking about time before that, time when your CC effects actually worked against bosses and you could CC chain the boss etc.

>

> I don't think there was a time when all enemies in the game could be CC'd ad libitum, but I could be wrong. If there was, it was patched pretty quick for obvious reasons.

>

> > @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > But for bosses who didn't have defiance but gained a breakbar (ie. Ghost Eater), controlling their pathing became much harder since pulls no longer worked. This is the core reason I hate breakbars, not because I love defiance. If I had my way, both systems would be abandoned.

>

> That represents a very small minority of bosses, and there's no way that allowing unlimited CC of bosses would be a mechanic that would work in most content going forward. Your idea of 1 to 1 response of a boss' behavior to specific conditions is fine playing solo, but utterly breaks down in open world and even small group content. If you can just chain CC a boss into not being able to do anything while you kill it (very easy to do with 5 and certainly 10 players), that trivializes content even more than you think breakbars do. There are 0 mechanics then. The other alternative is just making CC 100% ineffective, which also is reductive and not fun and loses a chance to make phased behaviors and mechanics.

>

> Some of the things you want actually are in the game with breakbars - some bosses have a heal phase that must be broken, or spawn a healing add that you have to take out. Others have deadly skills that will hit if you don't break the bar.

>

>

 

There was. Thats why there was even those stones in AC story dungeon so you could keep ralena and vassar away from each others.

 

From wiki:"There are boulders around the room that players can throw at the bosses to knock them down briefly, which might help to keep them separated."

Thatofc won't work anymore as tose won't knockback bosses.

[Vayne.8563]

> @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > > @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > > > @"Kunzaito.8169" said:

> > > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > > > > > Breakbars have to be my least favourite "expansion" update

> > > > >

> > > > > Wut? This seems like rose-tinted memory if I've ever seen it. Breakbars are a huge improvement over the fussy defiance stack mechanic we started with, where it was hard to see how many were left, every CC took off 1 stack no matter how strong, and a stray blind could screw up the stun you wanted to land and reset all the stacks. Plus many bosses just couldnt be CCd at all due to the way that being moved could affect them, or that they could be shut down completely if the stacks got stripped too fast.

> > > > >

> > > > > Breakbar at least is highly visible and gives a consistent, reliable use for/result to using CC in bigger fights and allows for specific mechanics around it. (Except the few fights where you want to avoid breaking the bar, which is not communicated organically, just by other players yelling futilely in map chat)

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > I think he is talking about time before that, time when your CC effects actually worked against bosses and you could CC chain the boss etc.

> > >

> > > Exactly.

> > >

> > > If I think a boss attacks too fast, I should be encouraged to chill it.

> > >

> > > If I think a boss moves too fast, I should be encouaged to use cripple or immobilise.

> > >

> > > If I think a boss heals too much, I should be encouraged to use poison.

> > >

> > > If I think a boss has a skill I don't want to see them use, I should be encouraged to stun, daze, lift, push, pull...

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I think defiance and breakbars were both terrible, lazy systems that the general player never understood. Out of the two, breakbars are the one I hate the most because they slapped it onto dungeon bosses without taking into account people used cc to deal with boss mechanics correctly (ie. not use powercrept dps to make mechanics irrelivant).

> >

> > Definance in dungeons existed long before break bars. It did much the same thing. They simply changed it to a bar. Dungeon bosses were always immune to CC except as a way to stun them when they lost all their stacks of defiance. It was far worse before and far fewer people understood it.

>

> Lies. Long time ago you could CC bosses. Take ralena and vassar in AC for example, it was a common strat to CC them gar away each others.

 

This isn't a lie. Story mode dungeons were quite a bit easier than explorable mode dungeons. I'm not sure they ever had defiance. However MANY dungeon bosses, in fact the vast majority of them had defiance, which you can read about in the wiki on this page:

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defiance

 

Picking out an exception to the rule doesn't make what I said untrue. The trivia on this page says defiance was in the game before break bars. But you're actually illlustrating my point. You didn't know about it. It wasn't as clear. That's exactly why break bars are better.

 

I've lost count of how many people I've taken into dungeons before break bars that had no idea what defiance was. It's always been in the game. It always made the bosses that had it immune to cc.

[sokeenoppa.5384]

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > > > @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > > > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > > > > @"Kunzaito.8169" said:

> > > > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > > > > > > Breakbars have to be my least favourite "expansion" update

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Wut? This seems like rose-tinted memory if I've ever seen it. Breakbars are a huge improvement over the fussy defiance stack mechanic we started with, where it was hard to see how many were left, every CC took off 1 stack no matter how strong, and a stray blind could screw up the stun you wanted to land and reset all the stacks. Plus many bosses just couldnt be CCd at all due to the way that being moved could affect them, or that they could be shut down completely if the stacks got stripped too fast.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Breakbar at least is highly visible and gives a consistent, reliable use for/result to using CC in bigger fights and allows for specific mechanics around it. (Except the few fights where you want to avoid breaking the bar, which is not communicated organically, just by other players yelling futilely in map chat)

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I think he is talking about time before that, time when your CC effects actually worked against bosses and you could CC chain the boss etc.

> > > >

> > > > Exactly.

> > > >

> > > > If I think a boss attacks too fast, I should be encouraged to chill it.

> > > >

> > > > If I think a boss moves too fast, I should be encouaged to use cripple or immobilise.

> > > >

> > > > If I think a boss heals too much, I should be encouraged to use poison.

> > > >

> > > > If I think a boss has a skill I don't want to see them use, I should be encouraged to stun, daze, lift, push, pull...

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I think defiance and breakbars were both terrible, lazy systems that the general player never understood. Out of the two, breakbars are the one I hate the most because they slapped it onto dungeon bosses without taking into account people used cc to deal with boss mechanics correctly (ie. not use powercrept dps to make mechanics irrelivant).

> > >

> > > Definance in dungeons existed long before break bars. It did much the same thing. They simply changed it to a bar. Dungeon bosses were always immune to CC except as a way to stun them when they lost all their stacks of defiance. It was far worse before and far fewer people understood it.

> >

> > Lies. Long time ago you could CC bosses. Take ralena and vassar in AC for example, it was a common strat to CC them gar away each others.

>

> This isn't a lie. Story mode dungeons were quite a bit easier than explorable mode dungeons. I'm not sure they ever had defiance. However MANY dungeon bosses, in fact the vast majority of them had defiance, which you can read about in the wiki on this page:

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defiance

>

> Picking out an exception to the rule doesn't make what I said untrue. The trivia on this page says defiance was in the game before break bars. But you're actually illlustrating my point. You didn't know about it. It wasn't as clear. That's exactly why break bars are better.

>

> I've lost count of how many people I've taken into dungeons before break bars that had no idea what defiance was. It's always been in the game. It always made the bosses that had it immune to cc.

 

It was not easy back then before the nerfs. Remember the time when you could respawn even tho the party was in combat and ppl just kept running to those two over and over again while some1 somehow stayed alive there long enough that they didnt reset health?

You could also just push, daze etc expl mode bosses as much as you wanted, that ofc was not healthy for the game as bosses like howling king never did anything coz he got dazed every time when he tried to.

[Vayne.8563]

> @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > > @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > > > > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > > > > > @"Kunzaito.8169" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > > > > > > > Breakbars have to be my least favourite "expansion" update

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Wut? This seems like rose-tinted memory if I've ever seen it. Breakbars are a huge improvement over the fussy defiance stack mechanic we started with, where it was hard to see how many were left, every CC took off 1 stack no matter how strong, and a stray blind could screw up the stun you wanted to land and reset all the stacks. Plus many bosses just couldnt be CCd at all due to the way that being moved could affect them, or that they could be shut down completely if the stacks got stripped too fast.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Breakbar at least is highly visible and gives a consistent, reliable use for/result to using CC in bigger fights and allows for specific mechanics around it. (Except the few fights where you want to avoid breaking the bar, which is not communicated organically, just by other players yelling futilely in map chat)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I think he is talking about time before that, time when your CC effects actually worked against bosses and you could CC chain the boss etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > Exactly.

> > > > >

> > > > > If I think a boss attacks too fast, I should be encouraged to chill it.

> > > > >

> > > > > If I think a boss moves too fast, I should be encouaged to use cripple or immobilise.

> > > > >

> > > > > If I think a boss heals too much, I should be encouraged to use poison.

> > > > >

> > > > > If I think a boss has a skill I don't want to see them use, I should be encouraged to stun, daze, lift, push, pull...

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I think defiance and breakbars were both terrible, lazy systems that the general player never understood. Out of the two, breakbars are the one I hate the most because they slapped it onto dungeon bosses without taking into account people used cc to deal with boss mechanics correctly (ie. not use powercrept dps to make mechanics irrelivant).

> > > >

> > > > Definance in dungeons existed long before break bars. It did much the same thing. They simply changed it to a bar. Dungeon bosses were always immune to CC except as a way to stun them when they lost all their stacks of defiance. It was far worse before and far fewer people understood it.

> > >

> > > Lies. Long time ago you could CC bosses. Take ralena and vassar in AC for example, it was a common strat to CC them gar away each others.

> >

> > This isn't a lie. Story mode dungeons were quite a bit easier than explorable mode dungeons. I'm not sure they ever had defiance. However MANY dungeon bosses, in fact the vast majority of them had defiance, which you can read about in the wiki on this page:

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defiance

> >

> > Picking out an exception to the rule doesn't make what I said untrue. The trivia on this page says defiance was in the game before break bars. But you're actually illlustrating my point. You didn't know about it. It wasn't as clear. That's exactly why break bars are better.

> >

> > I've lost count of how many people I've taken into dungeons before break bars that had no idea what defiance was. It's always been in the game. It always made the bosses that had it immune to cc.

>

> It was not easy back then before the nerfs. Remember the time when you could respawn even tho the party was in combat and ppl just kept running to those two over and over again while some1 somehow stayed alive there long enough that they didnt reset health?

> You could also just push, daze etc expl mode bosses as much as you wanted, that ofc was not healthy for the game as bosses like howling king never did anything coz he got dazed every time when he tried to.

 

Yes I remember rez rushing. You seem to be stuck on Relenna and her lover. You seem to think those two are indicative of the game as a whole,. ignoring that was the actual mechanic of that fight. That's how it was designed so those bosses didn't have defiance. Others did. They always had defiance from day one.

 

And you used CC abilitlies the same way to remove defiance. They had stacks of defiance even on old old bosses. Each time they were cced (which didn't affect them), a stack was removed, until there were no stackis and then they took more damage. The only difference for the bosses that had them was that there was no bar, you had to watch the stacks, because if you kept ccing them they'd get their stacks back. It only took one guy to screw it up. It was one of the reasons dungeons were so hard, but it was an artificial type of hard.

 

The lovers in Ascalon story mode should have never been giving a defiance bar. They should have left that fight as it was. But it doesn't change the fact that rez rushing onliy allowed people not to learn about defiance. It didn't mean defiance wasn't there.

 

I mean how many times did you see the Frozen Maw world boss knocked back or knocked down?

 

It's true they did add a defiance bar to bosses you could previously knock back but defiance was in the game since day one.

 

Edit: If you look at the defiance page, the history of the page starts in 2012.

[Rukia.4802]

I agree the xpac zones are tedious but when you are new to them is when they really suck. Just gotta get used to it, but it is a big design change from core. They really don't want you stopping to smell the roses, take screenshots, etc. in xpac content. Its go or die lol. There are ways though like if you get up on a high ledge with springer or whatever but meh it feels like you're always being attacked by something. I gave up trying to enjoy scenery anymore :(

[Daddicus.6128]

My guess is you are referring to Heart of Thorns (HoT) and its masteries.

 

Yes, they are obnoxious. It (and the difficult mobs) almost killed the game when it came out. But, the game survived and they learned a hard lesson. Path of Fire (PoF) masteries are much more in line with the stories. Very little time-gating. (NOTE: They also toned down the mobs slightly. Still hard, but no longer impossible as it was.)

 

To tolerate the HoT masteries, I recommend taking three characters through it at roughly the same time. You'll get the masteries as they progress, and it's not nearly so boring as blasting random mobs until you get to the next one. I recommend one character of each of the three orders: Priory, Vigil, and Whispers.

[Artenyx.1602]

I think it took me a bit of time to get that bouncy mushroom and gliding masteries so I hadn't continued hot story for a while lmao. It is a little frustrating having to spend a little time getting those to continue the story but it wasn't that bad. I think those 2 are the only really necessary ones, maybe not even the bouncy mushroom.

[Drennon.7190]

I’ve been playing more PvE and I’m starting to appreciate it.

 

I guess I was just used to playing WoW. “Kill 10 boars” type of questing/exploring.

[Nephalem.8921]

> @"Westenev.5289" said:

> I think defiance and breakbars were both terrible, lazy systems that the general player never understood. Out of the two, breakbars are the one I hate the most because they slapped it onto dungeon bosses without taking into account people used cc to deal with boss mechanics correctly (ie. not use powercrept dps to make mechanics irrelivant).

 

Chill cripple and immob should've never worked on bosses to begin with. Melee bosses could be kited way too easy and immob made them even unable to attack at all.

Pull was only usefull on very few encounters since fgs rush got removed. running to boss and bursting it down was always the better strat for almost everything before hots.

 

Stunlocking bosses is bad. you were able to cc some bosses for 15sec+, thats just not something that should work on bosses.

Breakbar is not perfect but way better than what we had before. next thing they have to do is removing exposed debuff so bosses dont die in 3sec.

And btw dps, dps, dps was also the strat in old dungeons where you just exploded things with icebows or fgs rush.

[Westenev.5289]

> @"Nephalem.8921" said:

> > @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > I think defiance and breakbars were both terrible, lazy systems that the general player never understood. Out of the two, breakbars are the one I hate the most because they slapped it onto dungeon bosses without taking into account people used cc to deal with boss mechanics correctly (ie. not use powercrept dps to make mechanics irrelivant).

>

> Chill cripple and immob should've never worked on bosses to begin with. Melee bosses could be kited way too easy and immob made them even unable to attack at all.

> Pull was only usefull on very few encounters since fgs rush got removed. running to boss and bursting it down was always the better strat for almost everything before hots.

>

> Stunlocking bosses is bad. you were able to cc some bosses for 15sec+, thats just not something that should work on bosses.

> Breakbar is not perfect but way better than what we had before. next thing they have to do is removing exposed debuff so bosses dont die in 3sec.

> And btw dps, dps, dps was also the strat in old dungeons where you just exploded things with icebows or fgs rush.

 

It doesn't work because you can't imagine the core game mechanics being applied to anything more than a dps training golem, which is what most pve encounters in this game amount to (which allowed the berserker meta in the first place). Breakbars (and defiance) mean that cc is no longer a viable counter against specific encounters, and as a result all encounters essentially become the same to remain fair (avoid red dots on the floor > break bar > dps rotation).

 

I think bursting down a boss is kinda boring, and maybe Anet thinks so too. But now they are drawing out these fights by giving bosses more health and the same counterplay in an attempt to raise difficulty, causing bosses to leave little impression beyond a unique coat of paint.

 

Breakbars may be "better" than defiance, but I still feel that it wasn't the best solution.

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > @"Nephalem.8921" said:

> > > @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > > I think defiance and breakbars were both terrible, lazy systems that the general player never understood. Out of the two, breakbars are the one I hate the most because they slapped it onto dungeon bosses without taking into account people used cc to deal with boss mechanics correctly (ie. not use powercrept dps to make mechanics irrelivant).

> >

> > Chill cripple and immob should've never worked on bosses to begin with. Melee bosses could be kited way too easy and immob made them even unable to attack at all.

> > Pull was only usefull on very few encounters since fgs rush got removed. running to boss and bursting it down was always the better strat for almost everything before hots.

> >

> > Stunlocking bosses is bad. you were able to cc some bosses for 15sec+, thats just not something that should work on bosses.

> > Breakbar is not perfect but way better than what we had before. next thing they have to do is removing exposed debuff so bosses dont die in 3sec.

> > And btw dps, dps, dps was also the strat in old dungeons where you just exploded things with icebows or fgs rush.

>

> It doesn't work because you can't imagine the core game mechanics being applied to anything more than a dps training golem, which is what most pve encounters in this game amount to (which allowed the berserker meta in the first place). Breakbars (and defiance) mean that cc is no longer a viable counter against specific encounters, and as a result all encounters essentially become the same to remain fair (avoid red dots on the floor > break bar > dps rotation).

>

> I think bursting down a boss is kinda boring, and maybe Anet thinks so too. But now they are drawing out these fights by giving bosses more health and the same counterplay in an attempt to raise difficulty, causing bosses to leave little impression beyond a unique coat of paint.

>

> Breakbars may be "better" than defiance, but I still feel that it wasn't the best solution.

 

because the best solution is better fight design :/

[Tren.5120]

Personally, I find the content design to be really bad. I hate the way you level up Classes. Everything is a puzzle, or riddle.

 

You need high jump to get to mastery point. Meanwhile, every mastery point you have left on the map requires this. Oh wait... there's one I can see. Let's get it! Sorry, deadly quicksand. Can't swim around to different areas. "A current has pushed you back... oops, sorry you're dead now, so the past 10 minutes you spent riding here on your slow as f*ck mount has been wasted."

 

You cannot get to other maps with out it. You're basically stuck in one area doing nothing, except the same boring ass missions that basically give you nothing. You're basically playing the game on the Wiki. Path of Fire is really no different than HoT for me, and I'll probably end up playing it less than I played HoT before I quit - with the quickness.

 

I want to play the game. I'm not looking for the MMORPG equivalent of a Rubik's Cube. The content design is laughably bad, IMHO. Waste of $30. Can we get a refund for this?