Psycoprophet.8107

> @"dani.5680" said:

> > @"Exile.8160" said:

> > > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant).

> > >

> > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else.

> >

> > So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs

>

> see how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others!

> so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS!

> I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth!

Players went on and on about powercreep when really only a few outliers needed toned down. Finally after listening to players complain for yrs they did the badly implemented de-powercreep patch which now in every poll comparing pre vs post feb patch more players preferred pre patch.

I get wanting things toned down but u will eventually reach a point where further nerfs across the board will result in removing the fun aspect of classes and build deversity aswell, there's a reason gw2 pvp population is in such a dire state compared to yrs before. If a games better balanced but un fun or a blast to play but less balanced what game are u gonna play?

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> As long as the balance team doesn't work together with the team that actually handles profession design, there won't be a right direction.

This is about as accurate as u can get. U can't even come close to any semblance of balance nor a healthy state of any competitive play by changing coefficients only, especially a large 8 year old mmo like gw2. It is unfortunate but that alone says all that needs to be said about the future of this games pvp modes

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > > > because ecto is busted makes me able to solo good mesmer with brain turned off, so is sap that's hitting 4k+ to 5k

> > > > signet is too good in the current meta, there's barely anything that give that many endurance, the other is healbreaker heal, which also get halved.

> > > >

> > > > sb5 has been carrying so much, not just mobility, but the fact that you get on demand port, to get out of jail free card. specially on maps like kyhlo and temple, also legacy. thief camping on sb basically unkillable and will out speed you and decap you. which is what carries the game, not by being stuck in 1v1 against some one else for mins on a node, but by who gets plused first, or who decapped first. also having a thief shut down far point carry.

> > > >

> > > > all nerfs justified

> > >

> > > Here is the thing though: Thats not going to change. Thief is still going to outspeed and decap you, and +1 all over the map. Theyre not going to nerf thief so that it cant do that anymore, because if they did, thief would be a class so unplayable, picking it is report-worthy. The only way that kind of nerf would work is if in exchange thief got major buffs elsewhere. Hopefully that is their plan, since them nerfing SB5 is already a sign, but who knows.

> >

> > I know ur hoping mobility nerfs will give way to buffs in thiefs fighting ability but do u really think a dev team unable to make thee melee class (warrior) proficient in melee is going to successfully make teef a better fighter? Not gonna happen man, all that's happening realistically right now is thief is simply getting its mobility hit no other plans for compensation are probable.

>

> Oh sure, it aint likely. But then again, I also thought them hitting SB5 was unlikely, and yet here we are. I have to be optimistic at least somewhere, after they killed core engineer through their stupid changes. Else Id have to admit that this games PvP has become unplayable, and that no MMO PvP exists that is at all worth playing. And that would suck.

Never think any skill is safe from anet, especially ones frequently qq'd about, even if they've been the same for 8 yrs.

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > because ecto is busted makes me able to solo good mesmer with brain turned off, so is sap that's hitting 4k+ to 5k

> > signet is too good in the current meta, there's barely anything that give that many endurance, the other is healbreaker heal, which also get halved.

> >

> > sb5 has been carrying so much, not just mobility, but the fact that you get on demand port, to get out of jail free card. specially on maps like kyhlo and temple, also legacy. thief camping on sb basically unkillable and will out speed you and decap you. which is what carries the game, not by being stuck in 1v1 against some one else for mins on a node, but by who gets plused first, or who decapped first. also having a thief shut down far point carry.

> >

> > all nerfs justified

>

> Here is the thing though: Thats not going to change. Thief is still going to outspeed and decap you, and +1 all over the map. Theyre not going to nerf thief so that it cant do that anymore, because if they did, thief would be a class so unplayable, picking it is report-worthy. The only way that kind of nerf would work is if in exchange thief got major buffs elsewhere. Hopefully that is their plan, since them nerfing SB5 is already a sign, but who knows.

I know ur hoping mobility nerfs will give way to buffs in thiefs fighting ability but do u really think a dev team unable to make thee melee class (warrior) proficient in melee is going to successfully make teef a better fighter? Not gonna happen man, all that's happening realistically right now is thief is simply getting its mobility hit no other plans for compensation are probable.

> @"Jekkt.6045" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Jekkt.6045" said:

> > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > If you don't like how the skill functions, change it.

> > > >

> > >

> > > That's where the problem starts. Apparently cmc can't change functionality because pve bois will go gaga.

> > >

> > > I wish we could have a complete pve / pvp+wvw split. that way we can have custom skills and even custom traits.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Cmc cant change skill functions or designs cuz it requires the skill team to do so and they always seem to be too busy, so over the last yr balance passes consist of number changes only, that's a real professional method to balancing a large mmo if I've ever heard one. They also recently stated that unfortunately those 300 sec traits are here to stay do to the effort required to redesign them, cuz I guess lowering the 5 min cd's to a atleast a amount that makes them useable is too much to ask from these devs.

>

> Imagine hiring cmc as a balance dev. Then imagine not hiring a programmer / skill designer to go with it. If all other designers/programmers are busy all the time, you might wanna hire more... Why buy a car without wheels.

I honestly think anets been either so stretched thin with other projects again or are working on a skeleton crew that they just simply dont have the resources to support a game this size any longer, a company suffering due to either would do what they could to keep those struggles internal. This could also be why the non new expac idea was changed out of the blue as a way to salvage what they could at this point by trying to bring hype to keep players interested in a mmo that gets very small bouts of new content and almost no support in other area's ie proper balancing and skill redesign's. The game has 0 direction and a expac is usually preplanned and takes a good chunk of time before release so it stands to reason EoD is either very far off or what we'll get will be rushed and it will show. Either way as much as we complain they may actually be doing what they can with what resources they have left, I think anets having a lot more issues internally than what's known publically

> @"Jekkt.6045" said:

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > If you don't like how the skill functions, change it.

> >

>

> That's where the problem starts. Apparently cmc can't change functionality because pve bois will go gaga.

>

> I wish we could have a complete pve / pvp+wvw split. that way we can have custom skills and even custom traits.

>

>

Cmc cant change skill functions or designs cuz it requires the skill team to do so and they always seem to be too busy, so over the last yr balance passes consist of number changes only, that's a real professional method to balancing a large mmo if I've ever heard one. They also recently stated that unfortunately those 300 sec traits are here to stay do to the effort required to redesign them, cuz I guess lowering the 5 min cd's to a atleast a amount that makes them useable is too much to ask from these devs.

Well easy way to look at it is without trickery a thief will have 4 ini left after one sb5, 4 ini after one skill lol and ini being a global resource far all the thief's weapon skills 8 ini is absolutely rediculous unless anet added some form or even multiple forms of rapid ini regen if certain criteria are met. This dev team keeps raising their bar on how bad their changes can actually get

> @"noiwk.2760" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"noiwk.2760" said:

> > > > @"Styros.8931" said:

> > > > > @"noiwk.2760" said:

> > > > > > @"Styros.8931" said:

> > > > > > > @"noiwk.2760" said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > right now as i said thief is by far the most played class in ranked pvp.. and this by its self says everything about current state of thief and that it over preform

> > > > > > > ! if you want the sad truth thief should be nerfed further and stealth should be reworked the reason it doesnt happen.. is because Anet are scared of the thief cry baby community .. like you that think thief needs to be god ! if you wanna be god... just do what other peple do now days and use hacks.. zzz

> > > > > >

> > > > > > if thief is best ranked class why i can't see any thief in ranked pvp ? Literally every 3-10 matchs I can see atleast 1 thief in 1 team but boiz thief is op boiz

> > > > >

> > > > > you dont see them cause they abuse stealth.. :P there are daredevil in every game

> > > >

> > > > do i need screenshot my every single game right now to show 0 thiefs every game? Sadly we don't have match history so I can't show you 0 thiefs every game

> > >

> > > well.. the only situation you wouldnt have thieves is playing not prime time and having game full of bots.. apparently the bots dont play thief ..

> >

> > The reason for that is thiefs defenses are all active requiring good timing and knowledge of ur opponents class to predict and evade their attacks. On top blinds, interrupts and other such skills have to be used on dp to have a chance in a fight as well as good positioning if using s/d or such. A bot thief would be useless and it's far easier to program a class/spec with higher hp/armor that has barriers, invulnerability at a press of a button all while spamming weapon skills that do decent damage. But those defensive type skills are far more skillful right, so skillfull bots can some what utilize them :)

> > But yes teefs mobility,evades and stealth thru combo fields are OP emiright?

>

> claiming the class require timing and is bad for bot to play it doesnt mean the class is weak ^^

> it means that you claim the class require skills.. . ok.. so? weaver require skills .. and it was still nerfed a ton. to be good at Umm? who knows..

> someone who stick to a class eventually master it.. and how thief would be useless on bots because it require some skills and timing isnt a good argument to say thief isnt strong ! i never saw heal breaker used by bot.. or support tempest .. does it mean they are bad classes? warrior just got all of his heal skills halved..

When did I say thief is weak? If played well its strong in its roles, very strong. My point was why bots arnt thieves often and that when people complain about thief and its evasiveness/stealth and how OP it is I think their forgetting about the differences in thiefs defenses and its design comparative to other classes except for mesmer to a degree. Thiefs defenses are for more active than most classes and are in some ways stronger but also in some ways are not and require more active gameplay than most of the roster.

> @"noiwk.2760" said:

> > @"Styros.8931" said:

> > > @"noiwk.2760" said:

> > > > @"Styros.8931" said:

> > > > > @"noiwk.2760" said:

> > > >

> > > > > right now as i said thief is by far the most played class in ranked pvp.. and this by its self says everything about current state of thief and that it over preform

> > > > > ! if you want the sad truth thief should be nerfed further and stealth should be reworked the reason it doesnt happen.. is because Anet are scared of the thief cry baby community .. like you that think thief needs to be god ! if you wanna be god... just do what other peple do now days and use hacks.. zzz

> > > >

> > > > if thief is best ranked class why i can't see any thief in ranked pvp ? Literally every 3-10 matchs I can see atleast 1 thief in 1 team but boiz thief is op boiz

> > >

> > > you dont see them cause they abuse stealth.. :P there are daredevil in every game

> >

> > do i need screenshot my every single game right now to show 0 thiefs every game? Sadly we don't have match history so I can't show you 0 thiefs every game

>

> well.. the only situation you wouldnt have thieves is playing not prime time and having game full of bots.. apparently the bots dont play thief ..

The reason for that is thiefs defenses are all active requiring good timing and knowledge of ur opponents class to predict and evade their attacks. On top blinds, interrupts and other such skills have to be used on dp to have a chance in a fight as well as good positioning if using s/d or such. A bot thief would be useless and it's far easier to program a class/spec with higher hp/armor that has barriers, invulnerability at a press of a button all while spamming weapon skills that do decent damage. But those defensive type skills are far more skillful right, so skillfull bots can some what utilize them :)

But yes teefs mobility,evades and stealth thru combo fields are OP emiright?

> @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > @"Styros.8931" said:

> > > @"noiwk.2760" said:

> > >

> > >

> > > for people who cry thief does no damage.. sorry.. but this look very strong to me.. when combined with the crazy mobility and stealth .

> > > showing out of no where doing quick damage disapearring again and bursting again

> > >

> > > btw its not me .. i just post a video i saw here recently on forum credit to the one who made it gg!

> >

> > funny joke buddy, dagger / pistol is only playable thief build . And imagine talk about class balance when you just watch video of random clown who play random game

>

> > @"Styros.8931" said:

> > > @"noiwk.2760" said:

> > >

> > >

> > > for people who cry thief does no damage.. sorry.. but this look very strong to me.. when combined with the crazy mobility and stealth .

> > > showing out of no where doing quick damage disapearring again and bursting again

> > >

> > > btw its not me .. i just post a video i saw here recently on forum credit to the one who made it gg!

> >

> > funny joke buddy, dagger / pistol is only playable thief build . And imagine talk about class balance when you just watch video of random clown who play random game

>

> Everyone repeat after me,

>

> _"4K BACKSTABS. WOW....!!!"_

Good example of the forum community, within a few hrs of the bad feb patch a thread was made in pvp "thief backstab still hitting 4k pls nerf" lol

> @"Loffels.5934" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > Lol. Warrior bubble was the most op skill in the whole game mode. Making them back to their static version is a good thing.

> >

> > Also they forgot to nerf warrior damage, which makes warrior one of the strongest melee damage dealers in WvW blob fights right now

>

> LOL. Warrior damage has literally been the lowest of all melee classes for a long time now.

See...This is what I don't get, nimon is a necro main no? The reaper is a far stronger melee class than warrior yet warrior is the predictable melee weapons master of the game yet a player on a necro using reaper spec will call out warriors as being top melee all while playing a class with far better melee prowess.

Warrior is pretty much the weakest melee class right now and there are still players stating the opposite.

Reaper-better melee

Holo-up better melee

Soulbeast/core better melee(not op just better)

Dh isveven more effective these days in melee range with traps etc.

Thief- I have a easier time on d/p DD and s/d core & dd in melee than on warrior and that's messed up.

> @"nthmetal.9652" said:

> I am not saying that warrior is now super weak, by the way. You can still achieve many strips, ESPECIALLY if the fights last, if your support is at least okay, if you position correctly. Thanks to the way warrior strips work, thanks to reduced CD on break enchantments, thanks to warrior survivability skills, it is still valuable. The CC skills may be weak in terms of damage, but they are highly disruptive. Support is still okay, especially since you will be able to bring your support even under high pressure.

> That warrior is high damage is something I cannot confirm. I almost never see warriors in top damage spots, and when I do, they are for the most cases berserkers and are not top consistently as they are very glass cannon. I still see revs up there very consistently.

>

> The only thing I am saying is: The bubble, for an elite skill, is too weak. Maybe it should be replaced with something different altogether, something that is worth a 90s CD. Or keep it and lower the CD.

Only high dps build for warrior is a meme gunflame build that's only effective vs noobs and very bad players, once in a while a good player may be caught off guard by it but rarely. Warrior is low tier damage class right now.

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> You mean one of the golden childs since release.

>

> Well it was about god kitten time.

Golden child lmao u serious? The warrior in this game is one of thee worst melee specs and is supposed to be THEE melee spec, its meta build is a heal build that does little damage ffs lol. Man the players this game attracts, no wonder its dying.

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > 0/10 horrible kitten change. How is a skill balanced for 8 years then suddenly it's too good? HOW?

>

> Gotta look at the bright side! At least they didn't impose a 300 second recharge timer on it!

Oh that be ok cuz just be a placeholder till it gets redesigned 10 month later and counting lol. Honestly from a business standpoint I find it hard to believe ncsoft could be anything but displeased with anets performance. Its kinda ncsoft fault tho as if they wanted gw2 to have any kinda future they really shoulda laid off the whole company and either closed anet or completely re-staffed it cuz these dev seriously have absolutely no clue or direction on how to grow this game, my guys is the devs that did are long gone at this point. I hate to say anyone should lose their jobs but strictly from business perspective these devs at anet are not producing what it takes, not even close.

Anet really needs to lose the mindset that gutting meta builds into builds that are unviable in no way magically makes other non viable builds now viable, all their effectively doing is creating a mmo with a roster of classes that are unfun to play and full off garbage build options. Like the pvp scene hasn't shrunk enough lol.

Remove all damage on cc's regardless of the difference in class designs, gut defense line by deleting 2 meta traits and gut warrior sustain on duel builds. Devs say we'll look at and adjust damage on cc over time depending on impact it has-warrior duel or melee heavy builds go from top tier to low tier. Yr later no damage on cc returned, insignificant amount of healing added to mmr and no adjustments to the 300 sec traits. Only good thing regarding warrior was nerfing heal build.

These sure are professional level balance passes for sure.

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Still no damage returned on cc lol so warrior remains weak as a melee spec, god this balance team is bad

>

> Baby steps, Psychoprophet, baby steps. At least MMR got moderately unnerfed.

I kno but how hard is it for professionals to see the 300 sec traits need adjusted and how bad war relied on damage as being part of its cc, after playing it for a hr someone should be able to tell by its skills that it's designed to cc- burst yet its skill damage numbers wernt adjusted for the dps loss on cc. I get takes time to redesign the defense lines 2 traits, but a yr and counting is crazy. Honestly these as supposed to be professionals within a industry lol

Lol this balance team is so bad

Still no damage returned on cc lol so warrior remains weak as a melee spec, god this balance team is bad

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> Funny you say this epidemic considering neither are meta and really have no space in a zerg so the only thing left is to roam/gank.

>

> What about the mindless necros/revs/engines in zergs spamming a few skills here and there?

This^ 100%

> @"felix.2386" said:

> > @"darren.1064" said:

> > > @"felix.2386" said:

> > > > @"darren.1064" said:

> > > > Dang. Your busted thief and holo aren't carrying you to salvation? Sorry to hear that man.

> > >

> > > yea, definitely when the likes of you get in my game, it's too heavy to carry.

> > > i like how salty you become after you refused to duel a thief as holo

> > > funny how shameless you can become instead of owning your own competence.

> >

> > I noticed you didn't reply to me on The Death of Thief

>

> that's because i aint on forum all day talking non sense trying to cover my own incompetence and the lack of skill, instead i play the game and get better then you are on your main.

> oh and the most irony part is that i also have a real life.

Do u? Cuz ur on a mmo forum bragging about being better than someone at the game lol just sayin.

> @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > > @"Widmo.3186" said:

> > > > You dont like build diversity?

> > > > Kitten is wrong with you?

> > >

> > > Nobody likes condi thief though...

> >

> > If you read the forum, you can even shorten your sentence to: "Nobody likes condi"

>

> And I thought you would say "nobody likes thief" or "nobody likes anything". :grimace:

This is true also lol

> @"phokus.8934" said:

> Why do people include realism into a fantasy game? We shoot fireballs from our kitten so anything is possible.

Not about realism it's about following a theme or archetype which fantasy games do. Sure theres full fantasy themes like mages and u want them to feel like mages but theres also warrior classes that regardless of fantasy u want them to play and feel like a warrior right? Their not a made up fantasy So why is it weird that some one wants a samurai spec as a example to feel like a samurai and of course like warrior I'm sure I'd have some "fantasy" heavy skills, warriors were a thing but I'm sure few wielded torches or scepters lol or could jump 30 meters distance or road on dragon mounts:) no reason the two cant mix.

> @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > @"Mormegil.2345" said:

> > > @"Legion.4198" said:

> > > The classical archetype of the blind ronin samurai is the perfect match for the revenant. Therefore one that carries a greatsword be a Tengu or a Norn.

> >

> > i could like a samurai with a gs but samurai wont wear plate armor so it is more likely to be a thief spec since they match with the armor class. although, i could love both of them to use greatswords:D

>

> Historical samurai absolutely _did_ wear European plate when they got access to it. Plus, 'heavy armour' in GW2 is anything metallic, including scale, mail, and lamellar, not just plate. O-yoroi, do-maru, and other samurai armours would definitely count as heavy in a GW2 setting.

Correct, plate was actually one of the most common armors accessible to samurai although fell out of favour in the 1700's but returned again in the 1800's. The lacquered lamellar style was most prominent but many many samurai wore plate as well as scale armors. Plate and to a lesser degree scale allowed for easier aplication of clan markings as well other artworks which were common among high ranking samurai.

> @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > > @"darren.1064" said:

> > > This poll isn't even close.

> >

> > Ah yes. The ever indicative, conslusive, and comprehensive, at cutrent time of posting, 56 vote poll.

> >

>

> There are multiple polls. One had over 300 votes. It surely is not a absolutely accurate, but the margin of error is going to be very small. So far, all these polls had a 40/60 approval/disapproval. While 60% disapproval may seem not that bad, if you are going to remake sPvP you better provide the players something better than what they had. And this clearly is not the case. For a game, the worst thing you can possibly do, as devs, is taking away something the players liked and implement something the do not like.

>

> And all this was unnecessary. The damage at Jan 2020 was on the lower side to begin with. The high damage meta was in 2018. It was long gone. all what needed to change is removing damage from some CCs, nerfing might stacking, so that no class can maintain more than ~10 stacks and nerfing quickness access for some classes. Everything else was flat out wrong. In fact, most builds that were out of the meta, were out cuz the lacked damage.

>

> I do not see a point of listing again why the current sPvP is a kitten show. But if you like mindless aoe spam + CC spam, enjoy. I do not.

So much all of this^