Psycoprophet.8107

> @"Rukia.4802" said:

> > @"Widmo.3186" said:

> > > @"Omernon.9762" said:

> > > > @"Zawn.9647" said:

> > > > > @"wevh.2903" said:

> > > > > This is ridiculous , lol has one competitive map xdd the point is switching the meta and playstyle

> > > >

> > > > HAHAHAHA are you serious? what an argument

> > > > LoL is a moba, it has only one map because that's the game. 3 lanes, jungles and 2 bases, same as DotA.

> > > >

> > > > World of Warcraft is a MMO just like GW2... still, WoW has capture the flag, conquest, king of the hill, arena, etc. lots of game modes :)

> > >

> > > LMAO

> > >

> > > WoW has 2 pvp modes - BGs and Arena (both having rated version). EoT.

> > >

> > > By you logic GW2 also has MobA-style PvP with 2 lanes, Domination-style PvP, large scale PvP (WvW), Capture the Flag PvP (the one unranked map where u are carrying white orb for extra points), castle defense and huge amount of PvP modes in festivals.

> > >

> > > Does all that matter? No? So does all the pvp modes in WoW - the only end-game, legit PvP there is Rated Arena and that knows every PvP player that is worth something. And trust me - all the rank 1 players would swap pillar hugging pvp for objective-based, 5-man PvP like the one in GW2, because it is impossible to balance WoW in it's current state, last-man standing game mode that is Rated Arena.

> >

> > I agree that WoW has generally 2 pvp modes, and I agree that the only competetive one that counts is the arena (or for some even more specific - 3v3 mode). But I dont think we should compare WoW pvp gamemodes and GW2. Lets be honest, who plays stronghold? We had deathmatch map, which was removed (kek). 2v2 and 3v3 is total clownfiesta who gets more ca**cerous team comp (faaaar more than what it looks like in WoW, because gw2 is not optimised for 2v2 or 3v3). WvW is like open world pvp but...not really. Few years ago maybe, sieges, castles, battles. But now its just a bunch of boomers and newcomers that are welcomed by last roamers and hardnoped to never come again (maybe for daily purposes only).

> > That leaves only 5v5 conquest with some side quests like slaying beasts in forest or nuking lord. In WoW you have plenty of different maps with different MAIN quests. Hold/capture flags, assault/defend castle, assault/defend fortress, get resources, escort minecarts, escort and cap flag, hold orbs. Its like over 10 completly different maps and then you get weekly brawl which is another story. And those are only BGs, that are 'casually' played since 16 years and trust me, theyre all still fun. Then there are open world pvp and arenas. You dont have to make all pvp modes competetive, you have to make them fun to play, diverse so that after playing same game 8 years, majority of audience still wants to que (and when we look at que times, amounts of bots and cheaters, its a sad truth).

> > I speak as a person that reached leg division in gw2 many times and so did glad in wow. And no, I dont think that we would swap our pillar hugging pvp for holding 3 circles. Im not saying that gw2 pvp is bad or worse than wow, nooo, combat is great. Its different, but for sure its far far less diverse than what its big brother WoW has to offer

> >

> > PS: comparing MOBA to MMO, lol. Yes, it has 1 map, but the amount of possibilities with different champs, tactics, items, builds etc etc. Just...dont. Dont compare those 2 modes please.

>

> Well said, I've been enjoying myself in WoW BGs

>

> I am willing to go with the gear grind at this point, because it should be more about fun than competitiveness, I realized this more as I got older. The BGs are where the FUN is at and that's why they have so many maps and modes. The brawls are awesome, currently its on eots where you get shot up in the air and can fly to any part of the map, simply hilarious and fun. Is it balanced? Hell no. But who cares.. The only reason to play GW2 is because of no gear grind to pvp. That reason alone doesn't carry this game anymore, pvp is dead because it is neglected and has only a competitive mode.

>

> I will play cantha no doubt, its my favorite campaign from 1 but pvp is a clown fiesta with 0 variety. GW1 pvp was so great because it had casual fun maps and competitive maps as well. I mean who didn't enjoy FA/JQ/AB even as a pver.. everyone played those because is was simple mindless fun. I just want to bring FUN back to pvp not sweat my balls off carrying a team of scrubs in 5v5 every day.

>

> There is a time to be competitive, and there's a time to relax and slay some nerds for the lulz in a fun environment.

Same here, made the switch to wow 3 weeks ago after finally listening to a bud. I'm not nearly as good in bg's and arena as I am in gw2 but were having a blast, gw2 combat mechanics may have a slight edge but wow's pvp is just more fun which is what matters most in the end. With SL on the horizon they've been doing alpha/beta testing of the changes to all the classes and the forum has a specific section for feedback on each. They are big changes as well not a couple number changes to a few classes or lmao a number change/nerf that's just thrown onto all classes and call it a day like gw2 feb patch.

Gw2 definitely started out as a pvp oriented game but I think maintaining it proved to difficult for the team and was easier just to release pve content which is easier to maintain unlike pvp which needs constant maintenance, gw2 now is def pve oriented with pvp being a forethought.

One thing I cant understand is with games like ff14 and wow existing why would u chose gw2 for pve? I can only think maybe because its f2p.

The bopleganger, u don't know what bople is but oh man....ur gonna find out.

All metal's will be decided by the bople.

The bople can not be nerfed.

The bople laughs at the very idea of buffs.

When it comes for u in pvp or wvw.....u will know the bople.

Fear the bople.

Coming soon tm.

> @"Ouk.5914" said:

> imagine thinking that anet actually cared for it's player base that wanted to actually enjoy it's "pvp". They haven't done a single good thing at all within the last 2 years for this game mode so why do you guys continue to make these post that go unnoticed ?

>

> They clearly don't listen nor care enough to make the effort as they claimed. Example following to this would be the fact that they literally haven't posted a single thing to inform anyone at all about whats the plan for the game mode lol or better yet a statement as to why they been radio silent for close to 6 months now for the game mode. If ya'll want to really see a change then leave the game and move onto something that would actually get some attention till they decide to make a difference for the community. Feeding into their lies over and over again is pretty depressing to see especially knowing that they do 1 solid balance patch and then go back to hiding.

>

> PvP is dead, Monthly is Dead/Boring, Na hardly has Players, WvW in Na is dead, EU starting to die down and theirs absolutely zero tournaments worth even playing in for this game from what little the community puts up.

Ahhhhhh........yup!

Guys... owen wins, trev wins, we all win, now letz go for ice cream

No?

War and rang definitely can keep up to teef over a short distance but as the chase goes on thief will definitely pull a head, except DE, rang and war may beat out a DE but definitely not core or DD. Rang specifically doesn't need to keep up to a thief, just needs to stay in lb range lol course once uve swapt to lb ur mobility isnt great. Both warrior and ranger have great mobility considering their kits but definitely not in par with teef nor should they be. Is this discussion really worth the pages? Lol

DE and thief in general has far more stealth access than ranger, even if rangers using trappers. Thief also has more overall mobility than ranger, though a ranger can easily keep in lb range of a disengaging thief to down it quickly as it does still have great mobility and range. That said I may actually put rangers mobility over DE specifically if not runny sb for sb5 which in most cases they arnt.

Ranger does though have far more healing than DE and far better non stealth related defensive skills.

Burst wise a simple knockback and rapid will match a avg DE burst, I'd say burst wise thier close ish with ranger having a more variety of burst skills at its disposal.

Not being able to restealth while inflicted with dots could be a legit way to tone down stealth. Thst said if taking any damage reveals thief and if dots prohibits thief from stealthing thief would definitely deserve to actually get its power damage spikes back so it actually feels like a burst class again, as of now unless heavily booned up and with help of outside boons is the only way ur back stab doesn't tickle tanky classes which is crazy thief being thee burst spec. Yeah in wvw it can do high dps in full power build with boons but high sustain tanks can match that burst anyway these days. I think some people forget when a thief stacks stealth and moves to the real of its enemy for that 1 back stab shot the thief had to use quite a bit of its global skill resources.

Legit how many classes/builds can get 3.5-4k at the cost of one key/skill press resulting in 1 cd? Off to of my head rapid fire, ghastly claws, deathstroke, list goes on and on but thief backstab given it's set up does what it does lol that's sad.

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > > @"Raiden The Beast.3016" said:

> > > > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > > > > @"Raiden The Beast.3016" said:

> > > > > > B.U.F.F. TEEF, nerf SA

> > > > >

> > > > > Thief is perfectly fine without SA.

> > > >

> > > > Lol ... u r so boring teef hater ...

> > >

> > > I literally main thief.

> >

> > Dude just stop pls, its embarrassing, u dont main thief so just stop, its embarrassing for u and insulting to players in these forums. U literally ONLY post regarding nerfing thief, every convo u are in u post about how u feel teef is OP, I've never seen ur post on anything regarding thief where ur not asking for nerfs to thief or giving ur opinion on how op a build or skill is on it. Even ur nerf blinds thread is mostly a way for u to say thief access to blinds is OP lmao. Just stop, no thief main only asks for nerfs to their main classes, never is on the classes side defending it, if u got ur way class be useless. Sure ur a thief main cmon lol. I can almost guarantee ur a mes, ele or a engi main, but definitely not a teef main.

>

> Not to mention he literally didnt know multiple crucial aspects of thief, including what kind of damage it does, what build it uses and what its cooldowns are.

I'm not doubting he plays thief or isn't knowledgeable at all about the class, just saying going by his posts I've seen he definitely does not seem like a real thief main but after thinking about it would someone really be that sad to pretend to be a thief main in Hope's to what? Think they'll persuade thief mains or more importantly anet to agree the class needs nerfs because a player that mains it is asking for the nerfs? I donno but seems strange, take quite the vendetta against thief for someone to do such a thing.

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > @"Arctarius.2649" said:

> > > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > > what thief needs is some sort of support AoE spec, it already has too much of melee single target not what you are suggesting.

> > > i understand you want the flavor but im bored of playing the same build everywhere and not being needed \ wanted in most content.

> > >

> > > Now if you can design a martial artist with access to AoEs i might change my mind.

> >

> > The whole purpose of the thief class is to deal damage, to be slippery and have fun new ways of dealing with foes. No one wants a healing spec for thief, I saw you make this same comment on someone else’s idea and it’s a terrible one. None of its alternate specs are capable of supporting an effective support build besides shadow arts and even then, other classes will always outplay thief in the realm of support. It’s just not the thing this class does, and if anet makes a support spec. You can say goodbye to the class as a whole.

>

> Thief, as every other class, has support options in core.

> It's just that these options are not enough to make it a viable healing support.

>

> Ranger has been in the same boat before druid, necromancer was the same before scourge.

> A new elite spec **can** make thief an actual healer.

> And Anet has set themselves the goal that every class should be able to perform every trinity role in the end (tank, dps, support).

>

> Thief already has the dps spec (deadeye) and the tank spec (daredevil), what is missing is the support spec to make them viable support.

> **You** might not want to play a thief as a supportive healer, but that doesn't mean no one wants to.

Regardless of elite or build thief always feels like thief, to make a espec a support spec that's both viable and still feels like thief would be difficult and I assure u anets team won't achieve this. A support spec for thief would end up being a huge waste, waste of anets time and a waste for thief players as thier shiny new espec which could have added much needed new flavor would end up unviable and unused by the majority of thief players. Nobody chose thief outa all the class to play a support role, nor will it ever be viable as one as its core design isn't designed well for support.

Lmao the ever increasingly lack of population in pvp modes disagrees.

> @"Ghos.1326" said:

> While there is some truth to what the OP says, the funny thing about it is that applying a nerf to something overperforming can balance it out. So in a way yes, calling for nerfs constantly, if that's what it takes to achieve balance, can result in balance.

Yeah maybe lmao in a world where players dont just constantly call for nerfs on classes they just dislike fighting or classes that they have trouble fighting, unfortunately this is the case the majority of the time.

Both buffs and nerfs can lead to a more balanced game state. The job is up to the balance team to play and observe each class and decide how they want it balanced with in the game state, and with a clear vision and design of the class in mind. Problems arise when the devs are not playing nor observing the classes and builds near enough to make proper balance decisions let alone decisions that keep in line with the original vision or design for the class. What happens now is devs balance toward vocal qq'rs but can't out right use their suggestions in most cases cuz how professional would that look? So u get nerfs and buffs that are near the mark but off base at same time. Through all this in time the vision/intended design for the class gets malformed into something not even close to what it initially was intended to be. Look at class descriptions within the game, those were anets vision for the classes and what the design was sopose to reflect, how many still sound like the class u picked? 1 - the design team needs to actually be actively involved with the balancing of the game, not this we can only change numbers BS that we get often and 2- balance team needs to start balancing with a clear vision and design for each class and not to just please the more vocal qq'rs. They listened to their community with feb patch and now pvp modes are less populated then ever. They need to have their vision and follow it, depending on players for balancing for the tiny support they give pvp as devs regarding balancing attempts is going to end this games pvp.

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > We don't need to "nerf" th stealth. I would propose this change (although i would require some mechanical changes):

> >

> > ## 3 different type of invisibility effects

> > Stealth / invisibility has the main problem is basically overpowered in this game. It is a mechanic with no real counter play as the only real counter to this mechanic is revealed. Providing more revealed would cause a cascade effect where effects would remove revealed and then it would come a stronger revealed which can not be removed by that effect. We can see than with Shadow Meld (bad idea for a elite) and the natural consequence Marked effect.

> >

> > ## Thief : Make use of the shadows.

> > * Stealth caused by shadow magic / blasting smoke fields should have a minimal threshold to be effective. A toon using stealth would be visible to enemies which are within 600 units of him. This effect is dynamic and applied constantly as the thief would be visible for as long as it is within that threshold but as soon as it moves out of the range it would become invisible.

> > * Thief could have a trait to reduce that range to 400 or 300. The objective of this change is to allow the thief to disengage but not to allow those high burst from stealth (backstab would be an example) . Still using shadow steps could mimic the actual effects., but at that point it would require some skill to pull it off.

> > * Stealth becomes an offensive utility instead another defensive one as the thief has already many defensive effects (high mobility, teleports, evades).

> > * To balance this stealth duration from skills can be extended 1-2s .

>

> You literally said your change would **not allow for using the class mechanic (stealth attacks) for dealing meaningful dmg**, but **still "allow to disengage"**, you even propose **extending stealth duration**(???) and then... you... uh... you wrote *"Stealth becomes an offensive utility instead another defensive one*"? :lol: By what logic exactly did you come up with this statement?

>

> I can't stress this enough: your change makes absolutely no sense and targets wrong areas of the mechanic, expanding on the uninteractive elements while nerfing where it's already not even strong.

>

> btw. your DE avatar is also a pretty obvious bait while you keep spamming ranger ingame.

> ________

> Apparently not much changed since April:

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1221463/#Comment_1221463

>

> I expect as much of a response from you this time as well. So... none.

I know sounds strange but as someone whose poked around these forums since 2018, maybe 2017 cant remember exactly, I've noticed a very vocal mesmer and a engi who have been adamant on constantly posting nerf thief threads, is always in every nerf thief thread and even turn most nerf x class threads into nerf thief threads now posting as thief mains asking for nerfs to their own soposed main class. There's also another who joins every thief nerf threat stating their a thief main anytime a builds in question to state how obscene the damage on said builds are and how they should be nerf hammered, cuz people usually do this regarding their mains on a continual basis right? Like they think no one notices. Honestly hard to believe players are actually trying to use tactics to get the class they dislike nerfed in a dam.n game lmao. Sad kinda.

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > The problem is were long past the stage of power creep. Were in a power dip stage. All builds (including the "overperforming" ones) are now *weaker than any build that has ever existed in GW2 before*. Were already too low, we dont need to make it lower.

> > You realize yourself that that's wrong, right?

> >

>

> I realise its right.

>

> > The "top" builds still are far above what pre-HoT had to offer.

>

> Theyre not, nor are they even close. Take D/P thief for example. Top tier class, you need one in every team. Its *so* much worse than pre-HoT D/P thief. The backstab does at best half the damage, your autos do probably less than half, and your pressure is just unfathomably worse. Nothing is on the level of Cele Ele or Cele Engineer right now. Even Grenade Holo is a mere shoddy fascimile of cele engineer, featuring less damage, far less survivability, less utility and only mobility as an actual advantage.

>

> > You just don't notice it because Arenanet forgot to (or purposely didn't) nerf sustain in February and too many players started bunkering up.

>

> No I dont notice it because its not true.

>

> > But if you are taking a "top" build and use it against a players with reasonable defences, you can down that player in few seconds.

>

> Not really. Hell, most "bunker" builds arent bunkering up. Theyre glass cannon builds. Turns out even glass cannons can survive endlessly against how low damage is now.

>

> > That shouldn't happen. For PvP to be healthy, the opponents needs to have a chance to properly fight back.

>

> And they had that chance pre-patch. However for PvP to be healthy, you also need to be able to kill opponents *without* outnumbering them. That is no longer the case. Damage is too low. We need to increase it.

Honestly man I hear u, unfortunately the game state and playstyles u prefer are no longer the direction this games going in unfortunately. I agree with u that it was more fun pre feb patch where to be hight sustain or tanky u had to build for it and even then in outnumbered ud drop fast to hight spikes from a couple sources not this a class can stall a 1v2 for over a minute with those very tanks bursting as much as the glass burst specs lmao at least before feb patch to be near that tanky ur damage would suffer comparatively. Aperantly a lot agree with u and I as well as I've never in 7 yrs seen pvp in such a low populated state, had 2 of the same non duo q players in 3 matches in a row on my team, that's very bad. Defenitely dont take the word of the 10 forum posters left in these pvp forums, over half are spending 90% of their time on the forum constantly complaining about thief and asking for nerfs to everything but its name. Move on to a mmo that has the pvp playstyle u enjoy and leave gw2 pvp to the scraps left that likes it this way cuz it's only gonna get more barren over time.

> @"darren.1064" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > Only minor changes. One is:

> > >

> > > Thief

> > > - Backstab: Removed the increased damage when the target is hit from behind in PvP only.

> >

> > I wouldn't call the changes only minor, stealth being removed and replaced with visability mechanic which highlights the thief to make it more identifiable in all situations seem like a pretty hefty change to me especially given the movement de buff that comes with it.

>

> wait is that a real thing happening?

Lol no I just took homes joke further

> @"Lucentfir.7430" said:

> > @"Ghos.1326" said:

> > This is where the second part of what I said comes into play. The failure to do what they promised, which was smaller frequent balance passes, is why the game doesn't feel like it's moved forward since February. Unfortunately, that has a bigger impact than what people may have expected.

> >

> > Mirage getting some endurance taken away is fine, honestly. What was the mistake, however, is that they got nothing in return: no return of vigor to offset the fact they only have one dodge, no mobility adjustments, etc.

>

> Why is that a surprise to you? Anyone who's been here for a decent length knew that was going to be the case, the suggestion for faster balancing has been requested for years, even before HoT. They can't do it, and if you thought 1 dev heading the project would be enough, unfortunately that's naive thinking.

>

> You say that like they've ever given any sort of compensation after nerfing something. Removing a dodge from mirage was lazy balancing. All they needed to do was make it so if they get stunned or hard CC'd they can't evade. Believe it or not despite having the modes split, the balance for PvP is still very much dictated by PVE. It's a reason why you won't get class reworks, and very rarely weapon reworks.

I get a laugh at the devs excuses, "ah we can only change numbers as any mechanical changes or reworks have to be done by the skill design team" WELL THEN GET THE DESIGN TEAM TO DO THE NEEDED CHANGES, not that hard of a problem to solve. The design team is like some magic group within anet that can not be bothered with such trivial things as fixing broken,op or underpowered traits,skills or weapon kits as they have to focus on lw stories etc lmao, get more design devs on the team or make they ones u have set time aside to do the changes needed(looking at u team managers)

I'd bet it's more plausible anet is working on a completely different project that is utilizing the unreal 4 engine or at least will be.

> @"Kylden Ar.3724" said:

> For casual PvE, it's fantastic. Likely the best deal out there, hands down.

>

> If you like competitive modes, well... not so much.

>

> If a looking for a PvE/PvP mix, still worth it as the PvE side is good (if Living Story is repetitive and predictable) and the combat is really fun in WvW/PvP, even with their balance being both bad and infrequent.

This is accurate ^

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> This whole thread is multiple flavors of "Thief should not be able to play the game because of that one shortbow skill." I'd be upset if I had any emotional investment left in this.

>

> Let's say, hypothetically, Infiltrator's arrow cost 12 init and also gave swiftness for 12 seconds upon use. Would thieves be allowed to make duelist specs then, or are we going to fall back on "but stealth" ?

>

> > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> >**The skills team needs to remove the evade off vault to make it a good weapon in PvP**, it'll always be trash until they do that as that skill being an evade holds the weapon back forever in PvP.

>

> I need a cup of serotonin.

>

> I'm almost glad the balance team doesn't pay attention to these forums as much as people think they should.

Trust me no one really seriously thinks anet should listen to these forums lol at least not 99% of what's posted, the only people that could balance the game worse then anet are its players lol.

> @"SLOTH.5231" said:

> Warriors are only great at one thing right now yep you guessed it running away from a fight. Sadly that is the current state of warrior.

>

It will be the next decap +1 spec now, gs, sw/wh build with any utilities and runes for swiftness and quickness lol.

There's a reason population has dropped significantly since the feb patch, and its not because improved gameplay lol. Never the less enjoy lol.

The meta was 100% better pre feb patch, only players who's mains came out of it broken think otherwise. Same few specs spammed every match, u get 2 same players 3 matches in a row who arnt even duo qing cuz since the feb patch pvp population has plummeted worse and faster then it ever has. Games a mess right now, cant believe anyone woulda thought a no thought blanket damage nerf across all classes would work lol it was big patch only cuz how many skills and classes it touched not because it required a lot of work lol, other than the fact it was a zero thought patch that required little considerations. Given anets frequency of updates players warned it would tank pvp and it did.

X=y÷397€(45x6÷1)×4¥+2/-896¥x= xyz₩

There I laid it out for u guys, cant refute these cold hard calculations. Ur both right yet ur both wrong, next .......

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> Only minor changes. One is:

>

> Thief

> - Backstab: Removed the increased damage when the target is hit from behind in PvP only.

I wouldn't call the changes only minor, stealth being removed and replaced with visability mechanic which highlights the thief to make it more identifiable in all situations seem like a pretty hefty change to me especially given the movement de buff that comes with it.

Guessing tomorrows patch if there is one has no significant balance changes due to lack of pre patch notes. Good stuff.