Psycoprophet.8107

> @"Bazsi.2734" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > Another fix would be make invisibility like it is but becomes like a cloak if in front of a enemie like say a range of 75, like a predictors cloak. Reveal on skill use and cap duration at 6 secs that's un stackable but reapliable.

> > >

> > > being revealed when withing 75 would be legit useless as backstab has more range then 75, in NVO there was such a thing where you could see stealthed target when close to them, whatever the distance was set it was either useless as you couldnt see enemy as he was going to hit you, or OP as you could see enemy before he could hit you.

> >

> > I'm usually behind a enemy when back stabbing, being somewhat revealed (cloak like) when I frontal view at a close range was just a thought on how to punish bad placement of the thief. If range on the reveal is to long then stealth becomes useless and if reveal didnt end and stealth resume when out of the in range frontal view it would again be useless.

> > I say just cap it at 6 secs non stackable but reapliable and call it a day, less complicated and less work(anet love that) and is a nerf leaving stealth still useful.

>

> Being visible in stealth would defeat its purpose. Why did I waste resources for that few second of invisibility if I'm being seen through a passive mechanic? As Leonidrex pointed out, this effect would be either useless or OP depending on the range. No middleground here. You either avoid getting backstabbed or you don't.

>

> Capping stealth on 6 seconds would ruin skills that apply more than 6 by default(PU mesmers would be sad), or rely on stacking its effect like Shadow Refuge. It's actually not "less work", you'd still have to rebalance a lot of stealth related skills. But lets say we've done the work, those skills have lower cooldowns with lower durations now... What exactly changed? Fights would still be exactly the same. 6 seconds is long enough for a stealth engage or disengage so... why did we do all this redesign and rebalancing work?

>

> Stop trying to change how stealth works. It's the same since release for a reason.

Umm I think u miss understand what I mean. Ud still be fully invisible as u are now but only visible if ur directly in front of a enemy in say 75 range or less and when visible it would be in form of a tell like the predators cloak and would revert back to full invisibility when out of that range or not directly in front of a enemy. Stealth would be useless at that point? Either way be to complicated for anet as I said so idea being good or bad doesn't matter lol. Trust me I'm not trying to change how stealth works as I've stated in other threads that stealth had work the same since the beginning and no real reworks are probable this late in the game. I'm personally fine with it as is.

Wow weird arguement. Thief is faster than ranger on any plane. Ranger does have great mobility, as it should but it doesn't match thief's which it shouldn't for a variety of reasons which should be obvious to most players.Sure wars and rangers can keep up to thief for a distance but thief would pull a head over time 100%. Rogue like are usually the highest mobility archetype in mmo's and gw2 is no different.

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Another fix would be make invisibility like it is but becomes like a cloak if in front of a enemie like say a range of 75, like a predictors cloak. Reveal on skill use and cap duration at 6 secs that's un stackable but reapliable.

>

> being revealed when withing 75 would be legit useless as backstab has more range then 75, in NVO there was such a thing where you could see stealthed target when close to them, whatever the distance was set it was either useless as you couldnt see enemy as he was going to hit you, or OP as you could see enemy before he could hit you.

I'm usually behind a enemy when back stabbing, being somewhat revealed (cloak like) when I frontal view at a close range was just a thought on how to punish bad placement of the thief. If range on the reveal is to long then stealth becomes useless and if reveal didnt end and stealth resume when out of the in range frontal view it would again be useless.

I say just cap it at 6 secs non stackable but reapliable and call it a day, less complicated and less work(anet love that) and is a nerf leaving stealth still useful.

Another fix would be make invisibility like it is but becomes like a cloak if in front of a enemie like say a range of 75, like a predictors cloak. Reveal on skill use and cap duration at 6 secs that's un stackable but reapliable.

> @"Hollow.5382" said:

> > @"darren.1064" said:

> > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > thief is taking its sweet kitten time dying, at this rate it might take a year, give or take 15 years.

> > > > **The class has gone from high-risk, high-reward to high-risk no reward.**

> > > > excuse me what ? thief is NO risk medicore reward, thief was never in my time ( little over a year ) had ANY risk built into it.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Thief is zero risk, insanely high reward. It's why you consistently see thieves trying to 1v1 and staying in the fight until either you, or they die. A thief should learn by 5 games into PvP they absolutely do not and cannot 1v1 anything, but the class is so absurdly overpowered that it can actually WIN 1v1's against side noders, it's hilarious.

> >

> > So... they can't 1v1 anything and and can 1v1 everything at the same time? Schrodinger's Class

> >

> > and then the class is overpowered if they manage to win 1v1s??? that's some new kind of logic there buddy

>

> I thought I was going crazy for a second, considering that post is heavily thumbs up XD. I personally think thief is OP but its hard to take their arguments seriously when they can't even remain logically consistent within the same paragraph.

>

> Also, the notion that a thief should never beat a sidenoder under any circumstances is ridiculous. A thief's niche is supposed to be high single target damage. If a thief couldn't kill a sidenoder in a 1v1 THAT would be a problem as it would make the thief nothing more than a glorified decapper.

>

Lol exactly! And it's the same few that spout this nonsense, literally just I dont like the class nerf it biased backed by hyperbole statements. Get used to it, all forum is these days.

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > > > > 1 balance is gbage

> > > > > > > > 2 balance change are far to infrequent

> > > > > > > > 3 class identities are a mess and all over the place which is made worse by balance, ie anet devs have zero real vision of what they want each spec to really be as they seem to go to far or not near enough with each role they want to impart on a class, usually it's a mess like a tank that also bursts or other such classes that can excel in things ud think they wouldnt.

> > > > > > > > The pvp is a utter mess.

> > > > > > > > The every class can do all roles sounds good but is complete nonsense and far to complicated for anet to be even close to balancing given their resources.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'd say #3 is the most important part.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Scourge, for example, is supposed to be a support, but they also want it to be a DPS, so it ends up being bad at both and people just play it as a bunker.....disgusting.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Deadeye is meant to be a ranged sniper, but it's burst is awful and it has ZERO AOE for no reason when weapons like longbow DH and longbow ranger(especially ranger) have AOE while also having the same single target burst. Makes no sense.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Druid is a condi bruiser, where it's main class mechanic is all power based and it's class weapon is also power based so you can't even take advantage of it's entire class at once which makes it end up being a subpar immob spam meme instead of a condi bruiser as it's intended(or it seems? it's literally the best role for it and makes sense).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Mesmer was the "control mage" in gw1 but in GW2 it's just a pink thief that gets farmed by thieves. Makes no sense.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ele is supposed to be the mass AOE, glass cannon, master of elements, but it's just a support bot or zero fun invincible bunker because ele traitlines are too one dimensional forcing it into a single role where NO OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME has to deal with this.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Guardian is meant to be a holy warrior, but it's only DPS build is a holy longbow ranger with traps(really weird), so it ends up having no bruiser builds and only has pure bunkers from all it's weapons being too defensive with it's only good offensive weapons being longbow and gswsord, and even gsword is too unreliable in PvP to hit anyone with consistently.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I could go on, but you probably get the point. Basically, if someone wants to play a traditional RPG caster in this game, they can't because that option is far too weak to be playable. You can't really play a holy warrior which is also an incredibly common role people LOVE to play in MMORPGs, "dark mage" isn't even playable in PvE while in PvP base necro fills that role pretty well, but it's damage is too low and it's too bunkery imo but at least it's there.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yet, you can play thief, warrior, and be legolasz. Not sure why so many classic RPG roles are missing, tbh.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Warrior no longer feels like a warrior class, thief burst lower than ANY rogue like I've played in any of the 7 or so mmos I've played, sure thief plays like the other rogue likes yet its dps is weak as ...... compared to them. I donno guards have fb for thee support role and core guard is very effective as a warrior mage,mage as in deals with holly fire that is. Guards are meta in ALL modes or usually is and is by far thee most versitile class next to holo and core ranger. On fb needs some love in few areas. The games a mess non the less.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yeah, thief does burst lower than other MMOs I've played. Of course, in those MMOs it wasn't able to disengage endlessly or run literal circles around every other class. So there's that.

> > > >

> > > > Really? In eso as long as u dont have a dot u simply reaply stealth, in wow uve got perma stealth at press of a button and 2 perms stealth buttons in combat stealth as long as u have zero dots, both can have super speed to disengage, eso with outfit and wow wish skill also while popping a skill to avoid spells, gw2 thief is actually the weakest rogue like I've played lol.

> > >

> > > Stealth =\= what gw2 has, which is vanish or invisibility

> >

> > That's right. If teef had wow stealth, and invisiblity as utility's skills I'd rather that, so would most thief players as u wouldnt be using ur resources going thru smoke fields to run around basically unseen permanently until first attack. The nerf stealth threads would poor in from this community haha

>

> I would much prefer thief with strong openers but dramatically reduced disengage/mobility/stealth. Also better 1v1 capability without relying so heavily on endless evades. This is an annoying class whether it's effective or not.

Issue is for how good rogues disengage potential is in wow almost every class in gw2 can disengage better. In gw2 mobility across ALL classes is comparatively higher than most classes in other mmo's do to the skill designs and class designs in gw2 therefore given teefs a rogue like and rogue are high burst/mobility, to have comparatively high mobility in gw2 u gotta be pretty mobile or u end up glassy high spike with the same mobility tanks do, that sound right? Think about how mobile holo's can be while also having stealth or a ranger or warrior lmao, only classes not highly mobile in gw2 is guards and necros and even necros have speed rune.

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > > 1 balance is gbage

> > > > > > 2 balance change are far to infrequent

> > > > > > 3 class identities are a mess and all over the place which is made worse by balance, ie anet devs have zero real vision of what they want each spec to really be as they seem to go to far or not near enough with each role they want to impart on a class, usually it's a mess like a tank that also bursts or other such classes that can excel in things ud think they wouldnt.

> > > > > > The pvp is a utter mess.

> > > > > > The every class can do all roles sounds good but is complete nonsense and far to complicated for anet to be even close to balancing given their resources.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'd say #3 is the most important part.

> > > > >

> > > > > Scourge, for example, is supposed to be a support, but they also want it to be a DPS, so it ends up being bad at both and people just play it as a bunker.....disgusting.

> > > > >

> > > > > Deadeye is meant to be a ranged sniper, but it's burst is awful and it has ZERO AOE for no reason when weapons like longbow DH and longbow ranger(especially ranger) have AOE while also having the same single target burst. Makes no sense.

> > > > >

> > > > > Druid is a condi bruiser, where it's main class mechanic is all power based and it's class weapon is also power based so you can't even take advantage of it's entire class at once which makes it end up being a subpar immob spam meme instead of a condi bruiser as it's intended(or it seems? it's literally the best role for it and makes sense).

> > > > >

> > > > > Mesmer was the "control mage" in gw1 but in GW2 it's just a pink thief that gets farmed by thieves. Makes no sense.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ele is supposed to be the mass AOE, glass cannon, master of elements, but it's just a support bot or zero fun invincible bunker because ele traitlines are too one dimensional forcing it into a single role where NO OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME has to deal with this.

> > > > >

> > > > > Guardian is meant to be a holy warrior, but it's only DPS build is a holy longbow ranger with traps(really weird), so it ends up having no bruiser builds and only has pure bunkers from all it's weapons being too defensive with it's only good offensive weapons being longbow and gswsord, and even gsword is too unreliable in PvP to hit anyone with consistently.

> > > > >

> > > > > I could go on, but you probably get the point. Basically, if someone wants to play a traditional RPG caster in this game, they can't because that option is far too weak to be playable. You can't really play a holy warrior which is also an incredibly common role people LOVE to play in MMORPGs, "dark mage" isn't even playable in PvE while in PvP base necro fills that role pretty well, but it's damage is too low and it's too bunkery imo but at least it's there.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yet, you can play thief, warrior, and be legolasz. Not sure why so many classic RPG roles are missing, tbh.

> > > >

> > > > Warrior no longer feels like a warrior class, thief burst lower than ANY rogue like I've played in any of the 7 or so mmos I've played, sure thief plays like the other rogue likes yet its dps is weak as ...... compared to them. I donno guards have fb for thee support role and core guard is very effective as a warrior mage,mage as in deals with holly fire that is. Guards are meta in ALL modes or usually is and is by far thee most versitile class next to holo and core ranger. On fb needs some love in few areas. The games a mess non the less.

> > >

> > > Yeah, thief does burst lower than other MMOs I've played. Of course, in those MMOs it wasn't able to disengage endlessly or run literal circles around every other class. So there's that.

> >

> > Really? In eso as long as u dont have a dot u simply reaply stealth, in wow uve got perma stealth at press of a button and 2 perms stealth buttons in combat stealth as long as u have zero dots, both can have super speed to disengage, eso with outfit and wow wish skill also while popping a skill to avoid spells, gw2 thief is actually the weakest rogue like I've played lol.

>

> Stealth =\= what gw2 has, which is vanish or invisibility

That's right. If teef had wow stealth, and invisiblity as utility's skills I'd rather that, so would most thief players as u wouldnt be using ur resources going thru smoke fields to run around basically unseen permanently until first attack. The nerf stealth threads would poor in from this community haha

> @"darren.1064" said:

> > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > @"darren.1064" said:

> > > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > thief is taking its sweet kitten time dying, at this rate it might take a year, give or take 15 years.

> > > > > **The class has gone from high-risk, high-reward to high-risk no reward.**

> > > > > excuse me what ? thief is NO risk medicore reward, thief was never in my time ( little over a year ) had ANY risk built into it.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Thief is zero risk, insanely high reward. It's why you consistently see thieves trying to 1v1 and staying in the fight until either you, or they die. A thief should learn by 5 games into PvP they absolutely do not and cannot 1v1 anything, but the class is so absurdly overpowered that it can actually WIN 1v1's against side noders, it's hilarious.

> > >

> > > So... they can't 1v1 anything and and can 1v1 everything at the same time? Schrodinger's Class

> > >

> > > and then the class is overpowered if they manage to win 1v1s??? that's some new kind of logic there buddy

> >

> > You didn't read my post correctly. The classes design intention is that it's bad at 1v1 but it can escape easily and come back when you're low on CDs/low hp. However, it's so absurdly overpowered AT THIS MOMENT that new and bad thieves are so used to winning 1v1's due to the classes absurd power, so they stay and fight like they're a duelist because they've been conditioned to believe it's a duelist due to it being brokenly strong.

>

> lol no, that isn't the classes design

No it's his take on the classes design. It has always been a +1, decap class yes but also had spikes to quickly dispatch any class even very tanky classes in those +1 but was always on the weaker sides in 1v1 except vs mesmer which it counters hard. Can u guess what most thief hater play lol. But teefs been so nerfed it takes far to long to +1 most classes and ur better off a pure decap bot... fun. A lot of thief players have left the game, which puts a smile on these players face cuz they cant see past their bias and see player loss is killing their main mmo, and their helping Kill it fue to a simple biased against a class they dislike.

I wouldn't argue with these players, they lie constantly and it's literally the same few every thread lmao. Just move on and ignore their biased dribble which I know is hard since theres only like 10 people that continue to post in this games pvp forums, can u guess I e of the reasons why? Lol

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> If any condition is problematic currently, then it is immobilize, which btw. is stronger than blind.

This, I can drop blind with one auto, way rather that than be rooted and have to stand buy roots with hp only to be rooted again few sec later. I know this isnt imobilize but same thing.

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > > 1 balance is gbage

> > > > > > 2 balance change are far to infrequent

> > > > > > 3 class identities are a mess and all over the place which is made worse by balance, ie anet devs have zero real vision of what they want each spec to really be as they seem to go to far or not near enough with each role they want to impart on a class, usually it's a mess like a tank that also bursts or other such classes that can excel in things ud think they wouldnt.

> > > > > > The pvp is a utter mess.

> > > > > > The every class can do all roles sounds good but is complete nonsense and far to complicated for anet to be even close to balancing given their resources.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'd say #3 is the most important part.

> > > > >

> > > > > Scourge, for example, is supposed to be a support, but they also want it to be a DPS, so it ends up being bad at both and people just play it as a bunker.....disgusting.

> > > > >

> > > > > Deadeye is meant to be a ranged sniper, but it's burst is awful and it has ZERO AOE for no reason when weapons like longbow DH and longbow ranger(especially ranger) have AOE while also having the same single target burst. Makes no sense.

> > > > >

> > > > > Druid is a condi bruiser, where it's main class mechanic is all power based and it's class weapon is also power based so you can't even take advantage of it's entire class at once which makes it end up being a subpar immob spam meme instead of a condi bruiser as it's intended(or it seems? it's literally the best role for it and makes sense).

> > > > >

> > > > > Mesmer was the "control mage" in gw1 but in GW2 it's just a pink thief that gets farmed by thieves. Makes no sense.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ele is supposed to be the mass AOE, glass cannon, master of elements, but it's just a support bot or zero fun invincible bunker because ele traitlines are too one dimensional forcing it into a single role where NO OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME has to deal with this.

> > > > >

> > > > > Guardian is meant to be a holy warrior, but it's only DPS build is a holy longbow ranger with traps(really weird), so it ends up having no bruiser builds and only has pure bunkers from all it's weapons being too defensive with it's only good offensive weapons being longbow and gswsord, and even gsword is too unreliable in PvP to hit anyone with consistently.

> > > > >

> > > > > I could go on, but you probably get the point. Basically, if someone wants to play a traditional RPG caster in this game, they can't because that option is far too weak to be playable. You can't really play a holy warrior which is also an incredibly common role people LOVE to play in MMORPGs, "dark mage" isn't even playable in PvE while in PvP base necro fills that role pretty well, but it's damage is too low and it's too bunkery imo but at least it's there.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yet, you can play thief, warrior, and be legolasz. Not sure why so many classic RPG roles are missing, tbh.

> > > >

> > > > Warrior no longer feels like a warrior class, thief burst lower than ANY rogue like I've played in any of the 7 or so mmos I've played, sure thief plays like the other rogue likes yet its dps is weak as ...... compared to them. I donno guards have fb for thee support role and core guard is very effective as a warrior mage,mage as in deals with holly fire that is. Guards are meta in ALL modes or usually is and is by far thee most versitile class next to holo and core ranger. On fb needs some love in few areas. The games a mess non the less.

> > >

> > > Yeah, thief does burst lower than other MMOs I've played. Of course, in those MMOs it wasn't able to disengage endlessly or run literal circles around every other class. So there's that.

> >

> > Really? In eso as long as u dont have a dot u simply reaply stealth, in wow uve got perma stealth at press of a button and 2 perms stealth buttons in combat stealth as long as u have zero dots, both can have super speed to disengage, eso with outfit and wow wish skill also while popping a skill to avoid spells, gw2 thief is actually the weakest rogue like I've played lol.

>

> Been awhile since I played WoW, but when I did you could see players in stealth if they approach from the front. They didn't have teleports (or very limited?). They had one longer cooldown for re-stealth. I'd be surprised if they changed it to GW2's ridiculous version. Nobody likes this class! Thief players complain about being bad at 1v1 while everyone else finds thief annoying as hell because whether or not you're able to kill a thief is pretty much entirely up to the

Yes in stealth not invisibility if the player has high perception and u stand right in front u will be seen, only the 2 in combat stealth are full invisibility, vanish being 10 secs of full invisibility, if rogues stealth in wow was full invisibility I'd be pretty op given its perma and reapliable outa combat. I. I'm sure any gw2 thief would love the wow version of stealth in gw2 along with sin and now sub's bursts lol then have to sit their as a burst class and chip away slowly at another class if in a +1 or disengaging from most 1v1's.

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > 1 balance is gbage

> > > > > 2 balance change are far to infrequent

> > > > > 3 class identities are a mess and all over the place which is made worse by balance, ie anet devs have zero real vision of what they want each spec to really be as they seem to go to far or not near enough with each role they want to impart on a class, usually it's a mess like a tank that also bursts or other such classes that can excel in things ud think they wouldnt.

> > > > > The pvp is a utter mess.

> > > > > The every class can do all roles sounds good but is complete nonsense and far to complicated for anet to be even close to balancing given their resources.

> > > >

> > > > I'd say #3 is the most important part.

> > > >

> > > > Scourge, for example, is supposed to be a support, but they also want it to be a DPS, so it ends up being bad at both and people just play it as a bunker.....disgusting.

> > > >

> > > > Deadeye is meant to be a ranged sniper, but it's burst is awful and it has ZERO AOE for no reason when weapons like longbow DH and longbow ranger(especially ranger) have AOE while also having the same single target burst. Makes no sense.

> > > >

> > > > Druid is a condi bruiser, where it's main class mechanic is all power based and it's class weapon is also power based so you can't even take advantage of it's entire class at once which makes it end up being a subpar immob spam meme instead of a condi bruiser as it's intended(or it seems? it's literally the best role for it and makes sense).

> > > >

> > > > Mesmer was the "control mage" in gw1 but in GW2 it's just a pink thief that gets farmed by thieves. Makes no sense.

> > > >

> > > > Ele is supposed to be the mass AOE, glass cannon, master of elements, but it's just a support bot or zero fun invincible bunker because ele traitlines are too one dimensional forcing it into a single role where NO OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME has to deal with this.

> > > >

> > > > Guardian is meant to be a holy warrior, but it's only DPS build is a holy longbow ranger with traps(really weird), so it ends up having no bruiser builds and only has pure bunkers from all it's weapons being too defensive with it's only good offensive weapons being longbow and gswsord, and even gsword is too unreliable in PvP to hit anyone with consistently.

> > > >

> > > > I could go on, but you probably get the point. Basically, if someone wants to play a traditional RPG caster in this game, they can't because that option is far too weak to be playable. You can't really play a holy warrior which is also an incredibly common role people LOVE to play in MMORPGs, "dark mage" isn't even playable in PvE while in PvP base necro fills that role pretty well, but it's damage is too low and it's too bunkery imo but at least it's there.

> > > >

> > > > Yet, you can play thief, warrior, and be legolasz. Not sure why so many classic RPG roles are missing, tbh.

> > >

> > > Warrior no longer feels like a warrior class, thief burst lower than ANY rogue like I've played in any of the 7 or so mmos I've played, sure thief plays like the other rogue likes yet its dps is weak as ...... compared to them. I donno guards have fb for thee support role and core guard is very effective as a warrior mage,mage as in deals with holly fire that is. Guards are meta in ALL modes or usually is and is by far thee most versitile class next to holo and core ranger. On fb needs some love in few areas. The games a mess non the less.

> >

> > Yeah, thief does burst lower than other MMOs I've played. Of course, in those MMOs it wasn't able to disengage endlessly or run literal circles around every other class. So there's that.

>

> Stealth is generally VERY LIMITED in combat(talking 3-5m cooldowns) and breaks when being hit/taking damage in other MMORPG's, too.

>

> I literally hold nodes for 30+ seconds spamming dodges and I'm not even s/d, if I was s/d I could legit sit there dodge tanking the node for nearly a minute, lol. That just shows the sheer amount of evades(too many) that thief currently has.

Again neither of that is remotely true in the other BIG 2 mmo's lol, u even play em? Takes secs to be outa combat in wow to really permanently stealth and eso u really at will, both unless u have dots on u.

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > 1 balance is gbage

> > > > 2 balance change are far to infrequent

> > > > 3 class identities are a mess and all over the place which is made worse by balance, ie anet devs have zero real vision of what they want each spec to really be as they seem to go to far or not near enough with each role they want to impart on a class, usually it's a mess like a tank that also bursts or other such classes that can excel in things ud think they wouldnt.

> > > > The pvp is a utter mess.

> > > > The every class can do all roles sounds good but is complete nonsense and far to complicated for anet to be even close to balancing given their resources.

> > >

> > > I'd say #3 is the most important part.

> > >

> > > Scourge, for example, is supposed to be a support, but they also want it to be a DPS, so it ends up being bad at both and people just play it as a bunker.....disgusting.

> > >

> > > Deadeye is meant to be a ranged sniper, but it's burst is awful and it has ZERO AOE for no reason when weapons like longbow DH and longbow ranger(especially ranger) have AOE while also having the same single target burst. Makes no sense.

> > >

> > > Druid is a condi bruiser, where it's main class mechanic is all power based and it's class weapon is also power based so you can't even take advantage of it's entire class at once which makes it end up being a subpar immob spam meme instead of a condi bruiser as it's intended(or it seems? it's literally the best role for it and makes sense).

> > >

> > > Mesmer was the "control mage" in gw1 but in GW2 it's just a pink thief that gets farmed by thieves. Makes no sense.

> > >

> > > Ele is supposed to be the mass AOE, glass cannon, master of elements, but it's just a support bot or zero fun invincible bunker because ele traitlines are too one dimensional forcing it into a single role where NO OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME has to deal with this.

> > >

> > > Guardian is meant to be a holy warrior, but it's only DPS build is a holy longbow ranger with traps(really weird), so it ends up having no bruiser builds and only has pure bunkers from all it's weapons being too defensive with it's only good offensive weapons being longbow and gswsord, and even gsword is too unreliable in PvP to hit anyone with consistently.

> > >

> > > I could go on, but you probably get the point. Basically, if someone wants to play a traditional RPG caster in this game, they can't because that option is far too weak to be playable. You can't really play a holy warrior which is also an incredibly common role people LOVE to play in MMORPGs, "dark mage" isn't even playable in PvE while in PvP base necro fills that role pretty well, but it's damage is too low and it's too bunkery imo but at least it's there.

> > >

> > > Yet, you can play thief, warrior, and be legolasz. Not sure why so many classic RPG roles are missing, tbh.

> >

> > Warrior no longer feels like a warrior class, thief burst lower than ANY rogue like I've played in any of the 7 or so mmos I've played, sure thief plays like the other rogue likes yet its dps is weak as ...... compared to them. I donno guards have fb for thee support role and core guard is very effective as a warrior mage,mage as in deals with holly fire that is. Guards are meta in ALL modes or usually is and is by far thee most versitile class next to holo and core ranger. On fb needs some love in few areas. The games a mess non the less.

>

> Yeah, thief does burst lower than other MMOs I've played. Of course, in those MMOs it wasn't able to disengage endlessly or run literal circles around every other class. So there's that.

Really? In eso as long as u dont have a dot u simply reaply stealth, in wow uve got perma stealth at press of a button and 2 perms stealth buttons in combat stealth as long as u have zero dots, both can have super speed to disengage, eso with outfit and wow wish skill also while popping a skill to avoid spells, gw2 thief is actually the weakest rogue like I've played lol.

Yeah honestly everyone stop argueing with these players, their rediculous and not worth their time as they just lie to serve their agenda, not surprising but it's sad to have to resort to such over a game lmao. After feb patch it was teef does 4k still on bs pls nerf, then 7, then 8, then 10, now 16k lmao wtf. Go into the mists u ......... and go all dps and hit a heavy golem which nets u higher damage than the guard and wareior npc's near buy and ull get 4-6k or 5k tops on the npc's. Go SA and u get 3.5k on golem and 2-3k on the npc's. In wvw us have to be all glass pure power build with some good boons and a executioner to get close to 10k. Guys are sad asf in high lying to achieve what haha sad. It's funny all the logs shown are logs and not vids, and the high numbers arnt golem it's another player who probobly got their bud to stand their in the classiest build possible while getting booned by another ro get numbers as high as they can, hence the no vid cuz it's funny u can fo into the mists and see the real numbers so easily lmao.

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > 1 balance is gbage

> > 2 balance change are far to infrequent

> > 3 class identities are a mess and all over the place which is made worse by balance, ie anet devs have zero real vision of what they want each spec to really be as they seem to go to far or not near enough with each role they want to impart on a class, usually it's a mess like a tank that also bursts or other such classes that can excel in things ud think they wouldnt.

> > The pvp is a utter mess.

> > The every class can do all roles sounds good but is complete nonsense and far to complicated for anet to be even close to balancing given their resources.

>

> I'd say #3 is the most important part.

>

> Scourge, for example, is supposed to be a support, but they also want it to be a DPS, so it ends up being bad at both and people just play it as a bunker.....disgusting.

>

> Deadeye is meant to be a ranged sniper, but it's burst is awful and it has ZERO AOE for no reason when weapons like longbow DH and longbow ranger(especially ranger) have AOE while also having the same single target burst. Makes no sense.

>

> Druid is a condi bruiser, where it's main class mechanic is all power based and it's class weapon is also power based so you can't even take advantage of it's entire class at once which makes it end up being a subpar immob spam meme instead of a condi bruiser as it's intended(or it seems? it's literally the best role for it and makes sense).

>

> Mesmer was the "control mage" in gw1 but in GW2 it's just a pink thief that gets farmed by thieves. Makes no sense.

>

> Ele is supposed to be the mass AOE, glass cannon, master of elements, but it's just a support bot or zero fun invincible bunker because ele traitlines are too one dimensional forcing it into a single role where NO OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME has to deal with this.

>

> Guardian is meant to be a holy warrior, but it's only DPS build is a holy longbow ranger with traps(really weird), so it ends up having no bruiser builds and only has pure bunkers from all it's weapons being too defensive with it's only good offensive weapons being longbow and gswsord, and even gsword is too unreliable in PvP to hit anyone with consistently.

>

> I could go on, but you probably get the point. Basically, if someone wants to play a traditional RPG caster in this game, they can't because that option is far too weak to be playable. You can't really play a holy warrior which is also an incredibly common role people LOVE to play in MMORPGs, "dark mage" isn't even playable in PvE while in PvP base necro fills that role pretty well, but it's damage is too low and it's too bunkery imo but at least it's there.

>

> Yet, you can play thief, warrior, and be legolasz. Not sure why so many classic RPG roles are missing, tbh.

Warrior no longer feels like a warrior class, thief burst lower than ANY rogue like I've played in any of the 7 or so mmos I've played, sure thief plays like the other rogue likes yet its dps is weak as ...... compared to them. I donno guards have fb for thee support role and core guard is very effective as a warrior mage,mage as in deals with holly fire that is. Guards are meta in ALL modes or usually is and is by far thee most versitile class next to holo and core ranger. On fb needs some love in few areas. The games a mess non the less.

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Cuz the players in this game like the low population and love that the pvp is dying.

> PvP would actually be a better place if the thief class did not exist. Its mechanic reduces the whole combat mechanic to absurdity.

>

> That's why I stopped playing it. It is an outlier in the game. Playing it feels like it doesn't belong there because it can control every single fight. And this does not mean win every fight, but determine the reward for the opponent.

>

> People started to tell to themself they won when the thief runs away to keep the frustration low. That sums up how ridiculously dumb this class is.

>

>

Yeah some would say so about ur necro, especially players that play along side ur classes espec scourge in wvw but doesn't make it true. I bet u think scourge and their 1000 carpet surrounding every zerg is a fine design right? How many threads u post in about its absurdity in such a mode, prob non cuz u play it. For few yrs scourge was thee braindead spam and get free bags class in wvw, is still now.

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > > > > > @"Ghos.1326" said:

> > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" I agree with the bug fixes and QoL updates. Those are always good, in my book.

> > > > > > I still don't agree with warrior needing buffs. Once we nerf the 3-4 main things overperforming, warrior will be in a good spot. It's getting shoved out currently because of those things, though.

> > > > >

> > > > > Most warriors are used to the fact CC damage did about half the damage then they could use GS to rip through anything with the 50% damage bonus, doesn't work like that anymore.

> > > > >

> > > > > There's also other ways to deal great amount of damage, but those options are often overlooked/disregarded because if you have no GS or shield, its not viable according to whatever the reason its always used.

> > > > >

> > > > > People are really attached to the old cheesy Tetherbreaker with lots of evades to spare, in turn you had also Might from it which ridiculously buffed damage.

> > > >

> > > > Yes warrior was used to doing half its dps thru cc's ur right about that so this vid cc no damage bs stripped warrior of half its dps as well as the standard dps drop everyone got, warrior relied on doing that half thru cc and now that's gone,no other class did and warrior got zero compensation thru its non damaging skills hense it was easily called that war would be in a weak state. Easy for u to say warrior can do damage if u just learn how to when u dont play the class which is the problem with the mentality of most the players that flick to this game.... lmao who am I kidding no one flicks to gw2 anymore.

> > >

> > > Hammer is literally designed to do 5k damage after a CC every 3 seconds, yet nobody is bothered to try it but use CC all the time?

> > >

> > > I'm having fun and the reactions people have to how stupidly one sided fights can be with it is hilarious.

> > >

> > > I made an account entirely dedicated to prove that core gw2 is fine and people on f2p accounts can be competitive.

> > >

> > > GreatAxe works too and that's because of how Axe compensates by being stronger than dagger overall in damage.

> >

> > Yeah no ones dying from one 5k skill every 3 seconds unless ur very new cuz after fighting war 3 times a player can easily know how to avoid the cc and that one hard hitting skill, lol cmon. Imagine a weapon having one hard hitting skill and thinking players wont quickly learn to avoid it. Without damage on cc hammer is useless against all but new players except for cc trolling which is definitely not a good way to design a weapon, then again its anet so maybe they think it is.

>

> So every plat / legend / known player to die in FFA or ranked are just all bad, got it.

>

> Can you even math? Warrior has at least 6 CC's at once that range from 24 to 6 seconds cooldown, you have a 3 seconds cooldown skill with 1.7k raw damage. Evading without permanent vigor or buffs take 20 seconds to fully recharge, imply that someone that's good would not wait out stability or bait evades with so many cc's to land bursts.

>

> Your excuse is "lol everyone dodge4head" as if the premise of warrior has never been to CC then burst.. LIKE EVERY PROFESSIONS IN THE GAME.

>

> "One hard hitting skill." You mean that potent 5k's every 3 seconds with that many low CD CC's in reach are worst than having your damage scattered across skills that are just as predictable and also have higher cooldowns with requisites such as having lower than 50% health?

>

> Y'all just want your cheese back rather than adapting, the denial is so strong that there's double standards in plain sight.

>

> Btw, minimum 5k, 9k is the highest it can easily go for.

>

> What's next, telling me that a hundred blades is better? Sure is with a "CC" or immobilize, but those are trivial things that only "new" players could ever fall for, according to you which I can't say it enough, it's biased.

100 blades is gbage too, who the .... designs a skill that requires a boon like quickness and a precursor hard cc to get the skill off in its entirety? The fact it still remains as is is a testament in itself. Yes only a player who's used all their stunbreak or ports would ever eat that war burst if they dont out right avoid it as most should. I'm a solo gold 3/plat 1 player so no where near the top yet I can manage to dummy most warriors by avoiding their very telegraphed and predictable bursts, if I can most should be able to.

The cc-no damage nerf on all classes is a stupid and lazy as a blanket dps nerf across all classes. We can sit here and argue but what's the point when things are so bad u can have the same 2 players on ur team 3 matches in a row that arnt even duo qing lol. Games pretty much done and its population is a awesome testament to the feb patch that most forum warriors touted as "amazing"

> @"uberkingkong.8041" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > > > > @"Ghos.1326" said:

> > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" I agree with the bug fixes and QoL updates. Those are always good, in my book.

> > > > > I still don't agree with warrior needing buffs. Once we nerf the 3-4 main things overperforming, warrior will be in a good spot. It's getting shoved out currently because of those things, though.

> > > >

> > > > Most warriors are used to the fact CC damage did about half the damage then they could use GS to rip through anything with the 50% damage bonus, doesn't work like that anymore.

> > > >

> > > > There's also other ways to deal great amount of damage, but those options are often overlooked/disregarded because if you have no GS or shield, its not viable according to whatever the reason its always used.

> > > >

> > > > People are really attached to the old cheesy Tetherbreaker with lots of evades to spare, in turn you had also Might from it which ridiculously buffed damage.

> > >

> > > Yes warrior was used to doing half its dps thru cc's ur right about that so this vid cc no damage bs stripped warrior of half its dps as well as the standard dps drop everyone got, warrior relied on doing that half thru cc and now that's gone,no other class did and warrior got zero compensation thru its non damaging skills hense it was easily called that war would be in a weak state. Easy for u to say warrior can do damage if u just learn how to when u dont play the class which is the problem with the mentality of most the players that flick to this game.... lmao who am I kidding no one flicks to gw2 anymore.

> >

> > Hammer is literally designed to do 5k damage after a CC every 3 seconds, yet nobody is bothered to try it but use CC all the time?

> >

> > I'm having fun and the reactions people have to how stupidly one sided fights can be with it is hilarious.

> >

> > I made an account entirely dedicated to prove that core gw2 is fine and people on f2p accounts can be competitive.

> >

> > GreatAxe works too and that's because of how Axe compensates by being stronger than dagger overall in damage.

>

> Balance at about one prof doing a ton of dps and they need tone down.

> Balance is about one prof or two, keeps you in check.

>

> The Reaper, Thief, they people that fight in your face.

> The warrior sole job is get in peoples faces and beat kitten outta em.

>

> Reaper is suppose to do area damage to people, its not suppose to beat kitten outta warrior

> Thief is suppose to hunt down squishies, its an assassin. They suppose to go down quick if you get em and smack em.

>

> Warrior job, to COUNTER thief, bullrush that thief go HAM on him.

> Warrior job, to COUNTER Reaper, that reaper wants to stand still in middle of everyone doing his thing, WARRIOR suppose to eat him alive.

>

> ...

> Ranger job, immobilize the kitten outta the warrior, which means he can't get in anyone's face, aint nobody he can go HAM on.

> Reapers eat rangers alive though.

> Rangers are great against thieves

> Reapers are great against thieves

> Reapers are kitten against guardians

> Reapers are kitten against elementalist

> Elementalist is kitten against thief.

> Thats balance.

> Not everything to do with survivablility and dps. Everything to do with their purpose and are they able to do effectively what they suppose to do. Some classes they counter others like Reaper because of the condi cleanse and healing they keep doing. Some classes counter others because of immense pressure. Some classes counter others because they rely on very nasty quick dps. Others just because they tanky.

> That's balance

>

> Warrior is suppose to be that tanky class, HITS LIKE A TRUCK, has a lot of pressure.

> But once you immobilize them, its GG for them.

>

> I looked at some of the skill changes they did. Looks like Warriors pretty much a lot of them have remove immobilze.

> I don't know what this game is doing.

>

> I mentioned in another thread, core had balance down to a tee, but with HoT and PoF, making some professions do more, eliminating their counters but they still counter others good, thats how balance is broken. Eventually every prof do everything, and it will just be a dps and survivability game.

>

> The bane of expansions, it makes professions do more what they not suppose to do.

> Look at Everquest, only Druids and Rangers were suppose to track. Now every class can track just as good as Druid/Ranger. 20+ expansions into the game.

> Bane of expansions. Looks cool when it comes out, a year later,

> "game does not feel balanced for some reason anymore"

>

> Warrior this skill removes immobilize, so many I see now that have it. Funny. You forgot to BUFF their DPS though, those elite specs others have are even more crazy and Warrior isn't Warrior.

>

> Every other profession is fine, its just Warrior that is bad.

> Some will say this is my meta, "oh wrong, mine is this" "oh wrong mine is this"

> At end of Day, everybody has Warrior as unplayable, and _those other professions, they make it to Meta sometimes_, **Warrior makes it to Great NONE OF THE TIMES.**

Issue here is ur talking as if there's a clear vision of the classes and their purpose, but there isnt. The devs tried to do a all classes can do everything approach that failed hard, it left the classes a mess like they all suffer from multiple half baked vision or purposes in one and non worked out lol.

The classes need a serious overhaul with a actual vision and purpose for each one before these devs have a chance at even getting close to a somewhat balanced state. 100% balance is impossible with all the variances in gw2 enviously but what it is now is beyond laughable.

> @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:

> I don't blame you. I us-to main thief and looking at the damage they do now makes me wonder why people still want this class nerfed. I stopped maining Thief 2 years ago.

>

> The problem is that Anet does not have a sound balance philosophy...It was flawed to the very core from the beginning of this games inception, and it has culminated into taking the most drastic measures, measures in which are built and still based on something that is still fundamentally flawed.

>

> Me and a few other people saw this coming months before the February patch, and we discussed it...I remember the fanfare when the patch dropped...

>

> "We love you CMC this is the best patch ever!"

>

> I can understand...People were sick of the powercreep meta as well. So was I...But what they were given was a trade...to trade of one evil for another evil under the guise of a truce. Nobody could really understand that this nerf meta philosophy was just as bad as the power-creep meta philosophy, and it's now gotten to a point where it's so bad that it's just depressing to even play this game.

Cuz the players in this game like the low population and love that the pvp is dying. They want all classes but their own nerf hammered so they can feel far more skilled than they actually are on their loaded class. It's no different than the pve scene, gw2 is literally braindead easy,even HOT yet people complained it's to hard. Then u get to pvp and the players want tons of passives, spammy low risk high reward play and any time they have issues with a class they spam nerf threads. Gw2 pvp population is not the type of population that enjoys challenge nor do the find it enjoyable to learn how to fight certain classes, its oh I got killed 3 times by this class its OP pls nerf. I remember post feb patch probobly a week after there was a thread thief BS is still doing 4k pls nerf more lmao, perfect example of the pvp community when most the heavier classes were bursting 10k+.

The balance and the games own pvp community drove most players off. Gl to the game but doubt even expacs gonna save it except maybe few month people will return to try out the new specs then leave again cuz in the end the expac wont fix any underlining issues that plague the game, actually may make it worse.

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > > > @"Ghos.1326" said:

> > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" I agree with the bug fixes and QoL updates. Those are always good, in my book.

> > > > I still don't agree with warrior needing buffs. Once we nerf the 3-4 main things overperforming, warrior will be in a good spot. It's getting shoved out currently because of those things, though.

> > >

> > > Most warriors are used to the fact CC damage did about half the damage then they could use GS to rip through anything with the 50% damage bonus, doesn't work like that anymore.

> > >

> > > There's also other ways to deal great amount of damage, but those options are often overlooked/disregarded because if you have no GS or shield, its not viable according to whatever the reason its always used.

> > >

> > > People are really attached to the old cheesy Tetherbreaker with lots of evades to spare, in turn you had also Might from it which ridiculously buffed damage.

> >

> > Yes warrior was used to doing half its dps thru cc's ur right about that so this vid cc no damage bs stripped warrior of half its dps as well as the standard dps drop everyone got, warrior relied on doing that half thru cc and now that's gone,no other class did and warrior got zero compensation thru its non damaging skills hense it was easily called that war would be in a weak state. Easy for u to say warrior can do damage if u just learn how to when u dont play the class which is the problem with the mentality of most the players that flick to this game.... lmao who am I kidding no one flicks to gw2 anymore.

>

> Hammer is literally designed to do 5k damage after a CC every 3 seconds, yet nobody is bothered to try it but use CC all the time?

>

> I'm having fun and the reactions people have to how stupidly one sided fights can be with it is hilarious.

>

> I made an account entirely dedicated to prove that core gw2 is fine and people on f2p accounts can be competitive.

>

> GreatAxe works too and that's because of how Axe compensates by being stronger than dagger overall in damage.

Yeah no ones dying from one 5k skill every 3 seconds unless ur very new cuz after fighting war 3 times a player can easily know how to avoid the cc and that one hard hitting skill, lol cmon. Imagine a weapon having one hard hitting skill and thinking players wont quickly learn to avoid it. Without damage on cc hammer is useless against all but new players except for cc trolling which is definitely not a good way to design a weapon, then again its anet so maybe they think it is.

1 balance is gbage

2 balance change are far to infrequent

3 class identities are a mess and all over the place which is made worse by balance, ie anet devs have zero real vision of what they want each spec to really be as they seem to go to far or not near enough with each role they want to impart on a class, usually it's a mess like a tank that also bursts or other such classes that can excel in things ud think they wouldnt.

The pvp is a utter mess.

The every class can do all roles sounds good but is complete nonsense and far to complicated for anet to be even close to balancing given their resources.

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> > @"Ghos.1326" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" I agree with the bug fixes and QoL updates. Those are always good, in my book.

> > I still don't agree with warrior needing buffs. Once we nerf the 3-4 main things overperforming, warrior will be in a good spot. It's getting shoved out currently because of those things, though.

>

> Most warriors are used to the fact CC damage did about half the damage then they could use GS to rip through anything with the 50% damage bonus, doesn't work like that anymore.

>

> There's also other ways to deal great amount of damage, but those options are often overlooked/disregarded because if you have no GS or shield, its not viable according to whatever the reason its always used.

>

> People are really attached to the old cheesy Tetherbreaker with lots of evades to spare, in turn you had also Might from it which ridiculously buffed damage.

Yes warrior was used to doing half its dps thru cc's ur right about that so this vid cc no damage bs stripped warrior of half its dps as well as the standard dps drop everyone got, warrior relied on doing that half thru cc and now that's gone,no other class did and warrior got zero compensation thru its non damaging skills hense it was easily called that war would be in a weak state. Easy for u to say warrior can do damage if u just learn how to when u dont play the class which is the problem with the mentality of most the players that flick to this game.... lmao who am I kidding no one flicks to gw2 anymore.

> @"Supreme.3164" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Thiefs not bad but it's not good either. The balance players that dislike thief want is not only bad for thief but also the game. Thief should have thee highest quick burst in the game given its archetype and design. Rogue and rogue likes are designed to be highly mobile and strike quick and hard using tactic that that stay true to the archetype whether it pisses players off or not, and if a rogue type is pissing players off it's doing its job. They should be squishy yet slippery and punish players hard if they get their burst off but in today's current game state it can take to long to even +1 for a teammate due to the insane sustain classes have either through healing or through defensive skills. Yes a thief should be able to significantly burst a tank if it gets its burst of, not one shot it of course but its burst should be significant enough to make quick work of ANY class in a +1, that's the reward for a rogue choosing their fights wisely and punishment for opponent being in a +1 but not in gw2 right now as a great holo,ranger,guard,rev and scourge can stall the fight far longer in a +1 than should be possible. On top classes that can survive in fights for longer periods are bursting as mush as the burst classes. There's literally no identity throughout the classes and all the roles are completely messed up and half backed into all classes but in away that is completely out of balance between each other. Too many classes are great at to many things and others gbage at too many things while being great at a few and some class are great at things ud think would be the weakness of such a archetype or design of a class. Honestly the pvp is completely lost in gw2 unless the devs do a complete overhaul and actually put real work into it, not some lazy blanket nerf to every class with no regards to how it actually effects each class individually. The we can only change numbers on balance is so laughable and unprofessional from a dev omg, sure design team will get to fixing things properly......6 yrs down the rd 3 traits may get designed throughout those yrs. I'm surprised ncsoft is ok with how things have been.

>

> If you say that thieves should be "squishy" then you're asking for far less access to stealth.....I can't agree on an ideology that a class should "kitten off others" that's not a legitimate balance request, if that would be the case then we should reintroduce all the damage taken away from other burst specs like Fa ele, sic'em ranger, core guardian hammer, shiro s/s , oneshot mesmer and so on and so on.

>

> For huge reward there should be **huge risk** and the latter should not occur only when "you do the mistake", that's a low risk instance...hardly a high risk one; right now it's possible to "punish" thieves only if you have access to things like : reveal - huge instant burst -teleports and high reflex rate...that's a lot to ask.

>

> It's not really possible to talk about balance with players on the forum without hitting **that Bias wall**

Unfortunately the risk vs reward of almost all classes is a joke. Think about how much damage most high sustain classes can do, classes that can stay in a fight, stall 2 players for a minute or so can match ur out burst classes that have to use disengagement if a fight last more than 10 secs. Thief needs some defensive abilities if their burst doesn't connect, way it is now even if it does the burst isn't very threatening to most classes except other glass classes or builds. People complain about thieves running away using stealth and tele's but why are they running away? I do agree access to stealth is to high but I also believe the reward for getting thief's burst off is too low. Capping stealth at 6 sec that's non stackable that can be replenished would probably help balance stealth out. Thief given its hp and armor still needs effective disengagement tools so it's not a free bag after its burst attempts. Of every mmo I've played, bdo,eso,wow,archeage, rift etc gw2 has thee weakest bursting rogue like, and yeah all those other rogues have great mobility and stealth etc on top of their squishy nature.

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"uberkingkong.8041" said:

> > > @"bringlotsofweed.2086" said:

> > > I think the warrior is in a decent spot. I just think there is WAY to much aoe going on for them to be effective.

> >

> > Do you play Warrior?

> > Can't say they in decent spot if all you do is play other professions and KNOW for a fact you going to rekt any Warrior that gets in your way.

>

> Just because the other professions are way too over-tuned, doesn't make Warrior any less decent.

> Warrior doesn't need buffs, the others need to get shaved.

Yes let's keep going in the nerf things direction cuz feb patch and after has gone so well, pops even worse then it was before, balancing a game by large nurfing sounds great but in reality makes game less fun for most players who then leave. Also the this is fine everything else is OP is literally always the reasoning for every underperforming class, prob is this is anet meaning the class stays comparatively underperforming for years until other classes actually get those shaves.

Thiefs not bad but it's not good either. The balance players that dislike thief want is not only bad for thief but also the game. Thief should have thee highest quick burst in the game given its archetype and design. Rogue and rogue likes are designed to be highly mobile and strike quick and hard using tactic that that stay true to the archetype whether it pisses players off or not, and if a rogue type is pissing players off it's doing its job. They should be squishy yet slippery and punish players hard if they get their burst off but in today's current game state it can take to long to even +1 for a teammate due to the insane sustain classes have either through healing or through defensive skills. Yes a thief should be able to significantly burst a tank if it gets its burst of, not one shot it of course but its burst should be significant enough to make quick work of ANY class in a +1, that's the reward for a rogue choosing their fights wisely and punishment for opponent being in a +1 but not in gw2 right now as a great holo,ranger,guard,rev and scourge can stall the fight far longer in a +1 than should be possible. On top classes that can survive in fights for longer periods are bursting as mush as the burst classes. There's literally no identity throughout the classes and all the roles are completely messed up and half backed into all classes but in away that is completely out of balance between each other. Too many classes are great at to many things and others gbage at too many things while being great at a few and some class are great at things ud think would be the weakness of such a archetype or design of a class. Honestly the pvp is completely lost in gw2 unless the devs do a complete overhaul and actually put real work into it, not some lazy blanket nerf to every class with no regards to how it actually effects each class individually. The we can only change numbers on balance is so laughable and unprofessional from a dev omg, sure design team will get to fixing things properly......6 yrs down the rd 3 traits may get designed throughout those yrs. I'm surprised ncsoft is ok with how things have been.