Psycoprophet.8107

Lmao sword buffed 40% unload buffed dude ur delusional. U can build full zerker pop Assassin signet and ur so called buffed sword auto’s are half the dps of most classes now especially with the booms other classes can give themselves on a near constant basis and unload lmao no one uses it because for the initiative cost even with the return the dps is garbage just like the whole kit is. Maybe in pve world their sufficient but at same time ur not providing anything to anyone around u and even than most classes eat pve enemies better while helping those around them. In PvP those skill tickle most classes now. Look at the last few sindrener vids on youtube he’s a very skilled player and mentions many times the noodle damage the class is putting out these days against the powercrept crap classes have these days.sure thief would be balanced if dps and sustain was lowered across all the classes but how likely is that ever gonna happen?not everyone wants to build around stealth backstab bullshit,sword 3 spam and staff vault spam,shits so boring.

Yeah stealth is just one of thiefs tricks that has been spread out amount other classes rendering them redundant. Mobility,ports,stealth and quick bursts are all done aswell if not better on every other class. Mirage and soulbeast have basically the mobility of thief but more sustain and dps,mesmer and ranger have stealth and sneak gyro makes scrapper better at stealth than thief. Almost all classes can out dps a thief of the thief isn’t starting the burst with a backstab. Their literally almost to the point where other classes will be better at +1 and decapping if that already hasn’t happened lol arenanet might as well cave all the way and delete thief and make a whole new rouge class.

> @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> > Well, regardless of whether it feels like you're getting more impact out of them, the benchmarks easily put Ele and Thief clearly ahead of the pack in pure DPS under ideal conditions:

> > https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

>

> Except thief was never meant to be DPS. And I never asked for thief to be high dps. Though they did say they balanced based on popularity, which is an asinine way of doing things. As for Ele's dps, it's based on their AOEs hitting the same mob more than a few times. Which kinda makes sense... but not in a PvP scenario.

Actually thief was soposed to be high dps,high mobility,low sustain high burst. High mobility,low sustain and medium to low burst leads to a disaster that its is. Ask urself in any game mode what does thief offer?nothing but a low amount of mediocre buffs for itself and damage. It lends nothing to its allies and is why other than strait zerker DD being used for dps in raids cuz its rotation is auto spam brainless thief isn’t used at all because it offers nothing but dps and other classes even do that better

Haha yeah problem is thief as a whole is garbage nowadays,arenanet and the community cries have destroyed it. Trust me most players are happy about it to. You have one half of thief players trying to actually skillfully engage and fight other players and are constantly getting squished like a annoying bug and the other half constantly use mechanics due to above reasons such as stealth burst backstabs etc which create salt and resulting in a large sum of the community calling thief (and u cant change their mind no matter how underperforming thief gets) out as op and eventually arenanet caves and pushes thieves further into the ground. This just way it is,no point even looking at the spec these days unless u want to try to stealth burst someone over and over which is boring as hell or Be in a constant disengage every fight lol

The little bit of excitement and risk wvw had is basically gone now,it wont last long in this direction

Lmao yeah 2 sec immobilizations that require to be done during the few seconds ur stealthed,the cripple and dazes that do garbage dps and are followed up by more garbage dps. Most classes way more loaded and powercreeped require u to simple push a button one for that same immobilization effect as well as doing more dps lmao can paint a turd any colour,still a turd. Sb good for choking gas downed players and movement rest is Garbo due to being designed way to conservatively

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> To the guy that said thief can't attack while evading once ds is over unlike mirage - not true.

> Sd 3 is an evade, and here is where you argue that the attack is at the end of the evade frame to which I respond almost all attacks mirage does have a cast time longer than the evade, so it's the same.

>

> That's not to talk how ds gets refreshed tons of times.

> Thief has more evades and more attack while evading than mirage. It's not even a contest.

Dude give it up lmao mirage is widely known as a top if not top 1v1/1vX along side soulbeast,dont compare ur bloated fighting spec to thief a widely known +1 class (for a reason) as if it’s even in the same league lmao. Ontop mirage has the mobility and tele’s to outshine thieves in a lot of +1 scenarios lol their only role other than decapping which mirage can do easily as well,soulbeast are included in this. The blind bias is ridiculous. I like thiefs and I can say their still slightly more mobile than other classes but some classes not by much these days. The have tones of evades for sure but that’s their ONLY real defence other than disengaging while other classes have a lot of evades,invulnerability and block skills ontop of sustain driven traits and mirage is included in that list.ur class got nerfed a bit and yeah in some ways not needed and arenet coulda made some more appropriate nerf choices had they listened more to some of the legitimate suggestions SOME mesmer mains offered but in the end mirage is still very strong class as a whole and in no way requires buffing or constant complaints about the state their in,being better off than most classes. I swear mesmer players have been so op for soo long they got used to it and now anytime their somewhat in line with other classes their class is soposedly ruined.

> @"Balsa.3951" said:

> > @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> > I must say, unless you instantly dismount upon going into combat (while mounted), which I hope is how they do it, I'm extremely worried that mounts will give players an unfair advantage against ranged opponents. You could effectively use your mount to soak up damage from a ranged opponent as you close the gap. This unfair advantage could eventually force situations where the mounted player has the luxury of forcing the ranged player to also engage with mount (thus eliminating the ranged advantage at first) or just run/not fight.

>

> That’s why u relax when someone approaches u with his mount no need blast all ur cds on the mount auto attack only. Or mount up as well and u 2 dance who engages first game

Is the ability to relax when being approached by an opposing side member in a PvP mode a good thing for the longevity and health of the node though,as convenient as it may seem?

Thief as a whole will never be at a spot line withe majority of other classes. Due to its mechanics and playstyles it is the class that produces the most salty players and constant thief op cries even when their garbage tier in most engagement scenarios these days the cries will keep coming. That combined with arena net not knowing much about their game,how each class players in each mode,and wanting to appease the masses thief will always struggle.just reroll another class like a lot of players have.

Every issue that players of wvw had foreseen has been accurate,the fact arenanet released it how the did with all the feedback shows how well they kno their own game. If their not gonna have employees committed to regularly playing the game,all the classes and modes they should atleast commit to regularly watching up to date streams etc of all the content to be able to foresee consequences of their decisions for future additions and balancing.

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > I've found a strange kinship with Obtena here, because I'm seeing him try to convince the guardian forum that they're wrong about Righteous Indignation, and seeing similar blowback from players who just don't like it. All my admiration for his tenacity aside, I do not have the strength to carry on as such.

> >

> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > being weaker in a straight brawl is perfectly fine, if they have superior mobility, stealth and burst and are allowed to use them. currently they are not in WvW.

> > >

> >

> > This... is part of the idea that I am trying to convey. It is _design philosophy_ that I talking about. All of these other nitpicks, tangents, and distractions aside, I have but one question for you: **Do you understand what I am saying?** From the first post I made in this thread: do you get it?

> >

> > I do not care if you think thieves are currently too weak. That is an aside.

> > I do not care what other advantages another class may have. That is an aside.

> > I do not care if another class has one or more skills similar to the thief. That is an aside.

> > I do not care if thieves do not currently have an identity. That is an aside.

> > I do not care about the specifics of the current sPVP format. That is an aside.

> > I do not care about the specifics of the current WvW format. That is an aside.

> > I do not care how easily or hard you think it is to access these skills. That is an aside.

> > I do not care how much your feelings get hurt by losing a fight. That is utterly irrelevant.

> >

> > Do you, or do you not, agree that it is unfair design to have a class that can always chase down another player and easily kill them while being completely invisible? If you do, then you understand why thief balance is such a precarious issue. If you do not, only then do I demand an explanation.

>

> i know that it is at a precarious state, however i cant really see from your posts what you want thieves to be able to.

Nothing! He wants them to stay in the state their in so it’s one less class to have a challenge against,not many people want to thief thrive these days unfortunately and glad he’s found kinship with Obtena who’s was in guard section telling all the guard mains how op core guard was and that it deserved the nerfs while claiming to be a guard player lol sounds familiar.

What is this obsession with thieves and roaming taking u all out lmao when I see one it’s delightfull,worse case they run. Have u guys met the many mirage,boonbeast and my favourite holo’s? They will wreck u ten times harder than a thief. That said holo fine and doesn’t need nerf :)

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > > Seriously, think about this for a moment. For the sake of argument, lets say that the thief now magically has access to all the sustain, evades, barriers, blocks, boons, and DPS skills that the weaver gets, but also doesn't lose any mobility, stealth, or burst damage. What becomes of the weaver then? How will they get played, when there's another class that will always hunt them down and kill them with no warning, no realistic chance of winning, and no hope of escape? It seems ridiculous, but for many years that is exactly the problem we had. For the longest time, the underdog class wasn't the thief. It was the mesmer. Why? Because in PVP the thief could do basically everything the mesmer could, except harder, faster, and safer. I still remember the video where Helseth, a famous PVP mesmer main, decided to switch to thief because it was just a better mesmer, and mesmers just got ganked by thieves. What I am saying here isn't speculation: it's history.

> > >

> > > To have a fair game, you _need to have a chance to fight back._ It would be stupid to design a game otherwise. Despite your insistence Crowd Control is not unfair. You can still see it coming. You can still counter-interrupt them. You can still dodge them. You can still use positioning to avoid it. You can still block it. Every class has a plethora of stun breaks at their beck and call. You can't do that with a thief. Positioning doesn't matter because thieves teleport around. You can't interrupt, dodge, or block them because you can't see them coming and thus won't know when to do it. Reveal skills are rare and they're trash.

> >

> > I don't want thief to have access to the same kitten other classes have. If thief had all the sustain, boons, blocks, dps, what ever the other classes get, it would not be the same class. It'd be another standard with no unique identity. The whole DPS train thing was just a result of the Raids, which I still firmly believe do not feel like Guild Wars. It was just something designed to be incredibly accessible, and they shoe horned the requirement of a paradigm which they sought to destroy.

> >

> > And no thief says that another player should not be able to fight back. The major complaint is that there is absolutely no reward to playing thief anymore. You genuinely don't feel like you are getting anything out of it. When everyone else can do everything you do better.

> >

> > It feels like complete kitten that you've outplayed your opponent multiple times in a single fight, but it often results in nothing.

> > You die inside every time you play spvp, when you're universally hated with nothing to back the hate up. And worse of it all is being forced to go far because you're not valuable anywhere else. And other classes -can still do this-.

> >

> > And lord knows it's even more infuriating when the developers keep creating a loop where they have to see just how far they can bring this class into the dirt before the player count just drops to zero.

>

> You know that half of this isn't true. There are plenty of thief gankers who just want to destroy people. If there weren't, then WvW wouldn't have been full of roaming glass Deadeyes. Thieves have gone up and down in power, just like every other class in the game, and every time thieves go down they covet what other professions have. You yourself say "everyone else can do everything I do better." This doesn't change the issue at hand: an extremely mobile, invisible, bursty class is inherently unfun and unfair mechanically, and so it will always receive the brunt of the balancing decisions.

Why are u in thief forums,u obviously don’t want the class to improve lmao it’s so transparent,another poster called u out on another thread. Go pretend to be a Eli player and tell them how their in such a great spot cuz theyve also been nerfed to the ground as core thief has, leave the thief forums to thiefs l

If ur talking pve daredevil with zerker gear and Assassin signet is great damage just pop signet and auto with weakening charge in mix. If ur talking pvp thief is not top tier damage unless ur opponent just stands there and doesn’t use defensive skills. With DD u will have to spam bound/vault/and auto’s if u can with weakening charge in the mix, rest of the weapons do garbage damage unless ur using a niche build for stealth backstabbing. Have fun :)

Sry was driven shhhhh lol read ur post above then read ur second without realizing it was different post,my apologies,texting and driving is bad mkay lol

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"tobin.6754" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> >

> > > People could not have anticipated how mounts would have worked, so to say this is why people were against mounts in the first place is just convenient hindsight. The fact is that we have history with Anet making changes to things and if players can't deal with that timetable that's fine too, because the business model of the game is built around players coming and going at their leisure. If you don't like how WvW works right now, wait until Anet fixes it an come back ... or don't. Whatever. Mounts are here. If you think NO change will entice you to play WvW with mounts in it, don't play WvW, because they aren't going away. There isn't any point in being pouty about how you didn't want mounts and now there are mounts. Adapt or lag behind; that's how MMO's work.

> >

> > This is great, telling people to leave if they don't like it.

>

> Because that's exactly how the game is designed and implemented. You don't pay a monthly sub, so if you want to skip something, you can. If you want to come back later when it's different, you can. I mean, you can ignore that option if you want, I'm not sure why anyone would though. I do know one thing ... people that don't play and adapt to the changes don't have a voice in how changes affect the game. If you want to influence the direction of mount in WvW, you better give them an honest go. Otherwise, your just going to be the guy on the forum QQing that Anet introduced mounts two years from now to the sound of the crickets.

Hmmm disigned and implemented? So why can players take damage outside of zergs? Or while enroute to Zerg?seems as if it’s designed for a veriety of engagements occurring anywhere and in any territory. Maybe u should write down ur version of proper wvw combat conduct between opposing sides and send it to arenanet to have them implement them to make it official so that way all ur post aren’t basically telling other players who probably invested far more time into the game mode than how to properly play said game mode because their preferred way is wrong because it may translate to u getting annoyed for being killed at a inconvenient time lmao that way if it’s official ur posts and game conduct views will mean something:)

Trueness. What if ricochet replaced it? Ah a guy can dream! Lol

Arenanet meets to stop letting cry babies dictate how the treat thief and man up as a company because it sure as hell isnt what their initial description of the class is anymore

> @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > Seriously, think about this for a moment. For the sake of argument, lets say that the thief now magically has access to all the sustain, evades, barriers, blocks, boons, and DPS skills that the weaver gets, but also doesn't lose any mobility, stealth, or burst damage. What becomes of the weaver then? How will they get played, when there's another class that will always hunt them down and kill them with no warning, no realistic chance of winning, and no hope of escape? It seems ridiculous, but for many years that is exactly the problem we had. For the longest time, the underdog class wasn't the thief. It was the mesmer. Why? Because in PVP the thief could do basically everything the mesmer could, except harder, faster, and safer. I still remember the video where Helseth, a famous PVP mesmer main, decided to switch to thief because it was just a better mesmer, and mesmers just got ganked by thieves. What I am saying here isn't speculation: it's history.

> >

> > To have a fair game, you _need to have a chance to fight back._ It would be stupid to design a game otherwise. Despite your insistence Crowd Control is not unfair. You can still see it coming. You can still counter-interrupt them. You can still dodge them. You can still use positioning to avoid it. You can still block it. Every class has a plethora of stun breaks at their beck and call. You can't do that with a thief. Positioning doesn't matter because thieves teleport around. You can't interrupt, dodge, or block them because you can't see them coming and thus won't know when to do it. Reveal skills are rare and they're trash.

>

> I don't want thief to have access to the same kitten other classes have. If thief had all the sustain, boons, blocks, dps, what ever the other classes get, it would not be the same class. It'd be another standard with no unique identity. The whole DPS train thing was just a result of the Raids, which I still firmly believe do not feel like Guild Wars. It was just something designed to be incredibly accessible, and they shoe horned the requirement of a paradigm which they sought to destroy.

>

> And no thief says that another player should not be able to fight back. The major complaint is that there is absolutely no reward to playing thief anymore. You genuinely don't feel like you are getting anything out of it. When everyone else can do everything you do better.

>

> It feels like complete kitten that you've outplayed your opponent multiple times in a single fight, but it often results in nothing.

> You die inside every time you play spvp, when you're universally hated with nothing to back the hate up. And worse of it all is being forced to go far because you're not valuable anywhere else. And other classes -can still do this-.

>

> And lord knows it's even more infuriating when the developers keep creating a loop where they have to see just how far they can bring this class into the dirt before the player count just drops to zero.

Good stuff right here ^

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"Farout.8207" said:

> > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > > the only thing that has changed is that roamers aren't the only ones allowed to decide if there is going to be a fight, because now both sides get a choice. Balanced.

> >

> >

> > I thought you were agreeing to fight whenever you join a WvW map. I'd suggest staying in PVE if you don't want to fight other players, it's safer there.

> >

>

> The hypocrisy is so thick, you can cut it with a knife.

>

> A high mobility profession with gear/build/upgrades designed for sustained 1vX, attacks a player geared for max DPS / min self sustain, but if the fight should somehow go the wrong way, they use that same mobility to rabbit off rather than stay and fight?

>

> And you're going to lecture me on fighting other players?

>

> Seems like many roamers define PvP as: to only fight players they have the advantage over, but avoid everyone else. Now that the advantage has been mitigated by everyone having a mount, all of a sudden roaming is dead....

>

> Anyways, I'm done with this tomfoolery.

>

> Please, if roamers are so unhappy with the mount and the game mode, please quit and move to sPvP. I doubt anyone else will notice.

>

Highly mobile,zerker geared class meant to sustain 1vx? Doesn’t exist,stopped reading due to lack of game knowledge

I’d rather have a more diverse meta like for example a couple bunker classes with mediocre damage,slow sustain dps’rs,fragile/quick and hit like a truck,all arounder type and mix of range/melee classes where all have their roles. Instead we have sustainy dps’rs with great mobility in the mojority of classes,bunker builds with low dps and fast/fragile hits with wet noodle classes. Seems bout right lol

So u choose to single out scourges,firebrands etc to prove what? Lmao a lot more classes than that are found in zergs those are just the dominant ones. But it’s all a mix bag that jump on u well mounted and yeah a thief will get destroyed by a good Condi scourge,firebrand 2v1 let alone if a revs in mix since u like to pretend only Zerg dominant classes exist to try and prove ur ridiculous point lol

I find it amusing reading the pro mounts reasoning’s

Can avoid builds that I don’t like fighting against

Can choose when to engage into combat

Can rush through the map to the point of interest,all while avoiding situations that I’d rather not be in

List goes on and I’m thinking to myself if arenanet dreading these would they view these as positive’s for the open world pvp game mode they created? Lol cuz I wouldn’t.

Lol thought that was obvious

Lmao here’s burny on his ever hyperbolic vendetta quest against thieves and mesmers :)