Psycoprophet.8107

> @"Alatar.7364" said:

>

> > @"Loboling.5293" said:

>

> > In PvP:

> > Thief, Ranger

>

> I am gonna bring my usual Thief whine to the table and say that absolutely anything is good at killing Thief in PvP, however not all have the tools to chase it down, which is almost never a good idea anyway, so.

>

This ^

Everyone’s a ganker till they are the ones being ganked,let’s be real here guys. Solo players gank other solo players,Small groups gank solo or smaller groups and we’ve all had a third of a entire Zerg chase us down and roll over us even when solo so who cares?gues it’s ok for a whole Zerg to chase down one player to steam roll it but not solo or small groups lmao

I get maybe 2 hrs a week to play around in gw so ima prob just sell all the chest lol

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > >Is it even possible for thief to pull off an outnumbered fight though?

> > > > wether you can fight outnumbered or not depends more on the opponents quality than your own build.

> > > >

> > > > with thief it mostly depends on your ability to kite the opponents while killing them one by one as your AoE is pretty limited.

> > > > previous to last patch i would say deadeye was the best to do so because with stealth you can quickly reset and reengage your opponent, combined with rather high damage spikes compared to other thief build you often could down one before their allies did react and take them out that way 1 by 1 , tho one can debate how that is an outnumbered fight or not as the allies of the opponent were present but didnt really have enough time to partake in the fight.

> > > > now i didnt play deadeye in WvW since the patch wich heavily reduced stealth access on rifle (wich was the best weapon for outnumbered fights as this allows to split the opposing group) so i dunno how good that is now. but other thief builds are less efficient in such a fight as they wont as easily break 'aggro', to get another delayed reaction.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > I'm aware that if I catch 2 or more people of equal or greater skill on guard I shouldn't have any chance of winning but that's where I would need to improve on my disengaging. I've been seeing in some thief suggestions that mastering shortbow is essential so I'm assuming cleaver use of shortbow #2 and #4 comes into play in out numbered fights. I know choking gas is great for slowing rez specially if you can get the poison stacks for daze.

> > >

> > > I could see how rifle would be useful, specially with the range it has paired with the stealth deadeye brings. Running something like DD D/P(as I was) I couldn't even start to see how you would fight outnumbered. Even just trying to take one person unaware was a challenge. My damage felt pitiful (ascended zerker gear, cause squishy anyways and couldn't be bothered to craft a second set yet). By the time I got in say 30-50% health worth of damage I would have to disengage from counter pressure. Any damage I take I would have to waste my one precious heal, while the other guy will just heal up at least a good 5-10% just existing from some regen or some passive trait. It's hard to re-engage instantly after my first engage too as I would have to blow a lot of ini on blinds/daze/ect just to avoid as much damage as possible. I guess aside from my first burst (if you even want to call it that) I'm finding it hard to apply continued pressure that does anything meaningful.

> >

> > sounds like you need to disengage a little faster. if you disengage before they land any of their counterpressure, then you can reengage faster. especially in outnumbered you have to disengage faster as you usually will only pressure one target, so their allies can pressure you faster than the target you focus.

>

> Makes sense. I'm probably in a fight a good 6-8 seconds before I disengage (estimated). I'm use to my ranger/warrior play style with just applying continuous pressure until I need to go on the defensive and kite. It just doesn't seem like the time I need to be in there (what, a couple seconds at most?) is enough to pull off any sort damage. What's 2-4k damage to a weaver who sneezes self-healing, a boonbeast who is...a boonbeast, a mesmer who can disengage just as quickly as I can, I think you get the point I'm making. So I suppose I need to figure out how to get more damage in less time out of my thief without burning so much ini that I can't disengage->re-engage

Permastealth malicious backstab one trick pony niche build exist due to the same issue u are having,it’s boring,repetitive and lacks any veriety but it’s effectively thiefs only decent burst against the powercrept sustain classes have now. Seems like arenanet nerfed the dps on most of the thief skills in relation to the high dps of that skill and a few other unhealthy mechanics. Yay! If u are used to soulbeast aside from the crap I mentioned above u will never feel like the reward is worth the risks ur putting out and Uve already experienced thiefs dps outside of cheap backstabs lol

If u see a boonbeast or holo short bow 5 and don’t look back,I mean it do not take the time to look back lol

Ok thanks for all the tips guys,I never thought about the once a week level 10 method,not that kill be doing it much but it’s a option atleast :)

Can we please get a more reasonable method of acquiring the keys other than purchasing them? I’ve got like 80 of the chest and hardly ever see keys and don’t want to spend money just to pen them.

Lol kinda hard to be a victim when u barely play the class anymore,think ur deflecting due to ur own mirage victim complex,classes I play are just fine in my opinion :)

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> Roamers complaining the only thing they like on game got destroyed, zerglings rejoicing they can avoid fights until they're 5vs1 and thieves victimising themselves like usual saying they're up, the worst profession on game and need tons of skill to play.

> This thread in a nutshell.

Theif hate,all ur post in a nutshell lol

I feel like wvw would appeal to more players if zergs combat dynamics were different. If players in zergs actually battled each other and had to think about thier rotations and defensive strategies it would be a lot more enjoyable for most people. Right now people try wvw and zergs and what they experience is this pirate ship meta garbage mess where everyone hangs back and spams any of their ranged attacks randomly into the blobbed mess for fear that if the even come close to melee range for anything resembling an interesting fight they will get completely destroyed in seconds by scourge/fb aoe spam that covers the whole Zerg and everywhere even close to it in a 360 direction. Both sides push and pull back depending on who has more scourge spamming,so fun lol good job arenanet.

if A class is good but other classes are powercrept around it making it redundant than it is no longer good in comparison. Sure I’d be great if other classes were depowercrept but it’s pretty obvious that isn’t gonna happen so bringing thief up to the level of most other classes is far better if the alternative is to leave it where it is now,just my two cents.

> @"Exitus.3297" said:

> I don't think it is fair to assume that Thief players want to have their cake and eat it too. I think the general place Thieves are coming from is that they simply pointing out that have less cake to start with than other classes.

>

> I tend to agree with the notion that making a mistake on a Thief is considerably more unforgiving than on most classes, but the thing is that Thief players tend to be okay with this on the condition that they have the tools necessary to avoid mistakes, or to make taking risks worth it. Take that into account while also considering that ANet has been slowly taking away that reward slowly but surely over the past many of patches, with some exception, without getting much in return aside from the occasional QoL change (E.G. Backstab aftercast reduction). Do this enough and Thief players start to notice that virtually everything is more threatening than they are. Maybe they could deal with being out-damaged by a little bit due to how their kit works, but then they notice that it is quite a bit more than a little bit. They start to notice scenarios where they may have completely outplayed their opponent, only for that effort to be wasted because that opponent has access to a mechanic that makes them generally more forgiving to play. Thieves then end up facing a conundrum where they either have to continue plotting away with their build that feels like they are only tickling anything that wears anything more than cloth armor or start investing into a cheese-build that only gets enough results to make opponents angry, but not much else.

>

> Keep in mind, I agree with the notion that Thieves are difficult to balance due to the dichotomy of being "bursty-squishballs". The way I have seen other games handle it is not by making them able to get that "one-shot" from stealth, but rather making it so that the "burst from stealth" is more spread out for a little bit after opening from stealth. Setting up a combo, if you will. Essentially it becomes a middle-ground where the player gets the gratification of burst while also giving their opponent some time to react to it, knowing full-well it could be a death-sentence if they don't.

Well said!

For me thief has more ways to engage in the +1’s but rev out performs thief hard in melee range

Stealth in its current form and the long duration available to thief along with DE itself will continually hurt the thief class as a whole. Is what it is,won’t change

Just save urself the frustration and stay on ur ranger,it’s superior in every scenario

> @"kash.9213" said:

> > @"lare.5129" said:

> > The changes is good. Tief should die asap, if make mistake. This is part of profession - if have skill = cool, no skill - downstate asap.

>

> If the rest of the game is progressively moving towards forgiving mechanics why single out thief as a class that should be unforgiving to the player? In any mode thieves will be playing against groups size or larger, so if thief should be that vulnerable to damage, then thieves should also have to tools to not only kill one player quickly but to be able to control and possibly kill multiple players quickly. I'm okay with that.

This is how it should be ^ almost like the description arenanet gave for the class is if that was their initial intention for the class. Unfortunately because people are so whiney and easy to hurt their ego and pride that dying to a fast,fragile class that takes skill to play is often too much and leads to salt and nerf cries.because arenet listened thief now is fast,fragile with mostly garbage dps,malicious backstab excluded. And nowadays mobility, sustain and dps being raised so high on other classes exept Eli this further pushes thief into redundancy. With that said there’s more than enough thief haters to keep the class garbage and arenanet clearly don’t know how to balance a high mobility glassy class as the past shows.

True fighting spamming classes with another class spamming isn’t ideal as fixing the spamming itself would be the ideal solution but till then having anything to combat the constant absurd scourge Condi spam is better than nothing

I use scrapper in wvw often but built with zerker/maurader and scrapper runes and I have enough damage to take down people most the time but get taken down a lot to and I’m talking in 1v1’s so yeah scrappers can be built super tanky with crap dps or just tanky with good dps,sounds like a decent spot to me. I think it’s fine to have a few bunker specs as long as thier damage represents it as well,the everyone dies in 2 secs to bursts unless using invulnerability or blocks that most engagement lead to the past while isn’t any better as far as I concerned.

One shroud spin and thief or mesmers dead,problem? Lmao reaper does some pretty good burst but can atleast take a burst as well wow

There are far more busted things than scrapper in wvw that require attention and have been around far too long. Scrapper and anything it can do doesn’t warrant any scrapper is op post considering how dominant scourge/fb/revs are in zergs. Only say this cuz just matter of time before this post turns into one lol

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > @"Kraljevo.2801" said:

> > Fighting enemy blobs with 7+ scrappers per squad abusing this rune is just cancer. It needs an icd or rework on the 6th bonus.

>

> While having 25+ scourges that spew multiple condies with corrupts, is balanced.

> Riiiight.

So much this ^

Scourges Condi spam is at a level of absurdity.

> @"lare.5129" said:

> The changes is good. Tief should die asap, if make mistake. This is part of profession - if have skill = cool, no skill - downstate asap.

I agree but it shouldn’t also require double the landed attacks to down players that have far more sustain given they can kill u in 2 or 3 auto attacks or one burst with dps being what it is these days. Only thing thief has that’s high dps malicious backstab and vault spam(if someone stands in one spot and doesn’t use Defensive skills lol) thief should have very high dps skills as a whole given it basically relies on evades and disengages as its defence. Initiative loss and the fact it causes every skill unusable when depleted unlike CD on other classes means the fact the same skill can be used twice in a row shouldn’t means skill dps should be low,as I’ve seen it mentioned in the past.

> @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > @"Sampson.2403" said:

> > Im pretty decent with condi mirage, power mirage and revenant in sPvP. I've been able to stay in plat 1 - 2 with these specs.

> >

> > Id like to learn to play thief next. I have a general idea of how to play it but im making this thread to see if anyones got some advice to give me knowing that i am coming from playing as mirage and rev.

>

> I dunno man. Rev is basically a better thief than thief in terms of +1. Should just stay rev.

This ^

If u are comfortable on rev and it’s energy mechanics u will get way more out of rev as a whole than u will thief. Play what u enjoy though,if it’s both rev is far superior in most scenarios.

Won’t happen unfortunately,no matter the difficulty of set up if thief hits hard with any of its skills regardless of its sustain the nerf cry’s will flood in constantly

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Decrease dps on skills like backstab especially malicious backstabs

> > Increase damage of all skills 10% some maybe 15% except for vault as it does enough

> > Make preparedness baseline and if traited 18 initiative

> > Revert lead attacks and blinding powder skills

> > Change improvisation so elites arnt part of rng,only utility skills are

> > Shave a second of evade time off daggerstorm

> > Thief would atleast be a threat in a 1v1 without having to stealth backstab

>

> Since when is core backstab a problem?

> MBS is another story.

Ur right man I meant malicious,good eye