Psycoprophet.8107

Mortal combat was most definitely good and still a classic.

Newsflash: no one said it had to :)

> @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > > My core staff ele build (2013):

> > > Attack: <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > Defense: <3

> > > Control: <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > Mobility: <3 <3 <3

> > > Evasion: <3 <3

> > >

> > > The exact same build in 2018 despite LUDICROUS powercreep:

> > > Attack: <3 <3 <3

> > > Defense: <3 <3

> > > Control: <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > Evasion: <3 <3

> > > Revives: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

> > >

> > >

> > > > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > > > > http://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta

> > > > > 'It isn’t often that I’ll feel inclined to point the finger at a class or two in a massively multiplayer game and blame it for the woes of an entire game mode. While I certainly wouldn’t go that far here, I do believe the Thief and Mesmer and some of their mechanics are the cause of many problems in Guild Wars 2’s PvP'

> > > > >

> > > > > Thief and Mesmer

> > > > > (all specializations included)

> > > > >

> > > > > Attack- <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > > > Defense <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > > > Control <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > > > Evasion <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > > > Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > >

> > > > ????????

> > > >

> > > > It's 2015 post by a guy who thinks Thieves run Berserker amulet and as an example of the _"massive burst dmg'_ posts a 4,6k backstab vs Light Armor target which is god.kitten **NOTHING** compared to what most of the power professions can do with much better frequency.

> > > > **Literally** the only thing in that post which was true is that Thief has access to more stealth than others. Thief was +1 even before 2015... wonder how is that since that guy makes it sound like such an ultimate 1v1 killer.

> > >

> > > You say all that, and yet Thief and Mesmer have the exact same sort of builds even now. There has been zero deviance from their core playstyles despite sometimes getting extra buttons: everything is still just stealth/teleport bursts from 1200+ range through walls followed by attacking while evading. It's so meta that basically other classes in PvP have basically just become Thieves by design: Guardian, Revenant and even Ranger to a degree.

> >

> > That's the problem most classes have had theives strengths added to their kit while being balanced around having good damage and sustain. Thieves arnt the ones that want to constantly use stealth and backstab to do damage, it's boring try to do the same simple cheese over and over.but blame arena net for its design.why would a thief sit there with s/d,dd,d/p and go toe to toe with classes that due to the powercrept state of the game have to hit their opponents 20 times more to down them than it takes to get downed? I dance around other classes with s/d and d/p all the time in wvw to avoid the backstab playstyle and I die constantly cuz I'll put play my opponent hard and hit them twice the amount they hit me and their sustain ie to much and heal thru it and if I mis one evade I'm dead,its ridiculous right now so u have to use cheese mechanics as a thief. And that's full maurader with assissin sig used.

>

> That's because Thief isn't a real class: it's a showcase for stealth. It's the same reason why Thief has no weapon skill cooldowns despite the rest of the game being entirely balanced by cooldowns: GW2's development was a bizarre array of isolated dev teams which just cobbled a bunch of flavors into low-effort classes with no real roles or interesting mechanics.

Sadly ur kinda right :( I played it for yrs cuz was the closest thing to a ninja class, growing up watching sho kasugi films etc with my pops I was always into ninjitsu type characters but man arenanet really pushed a few cheese burst mechanics on the class and slowly took away any chance it had to fight with out them.gets boring fast doing same thing over and over again and using same weapons for yrs.ontop arenanet powercrept classes to deal with such cheese while nerfing everything on thief that wasn't related to the cheese playstyle. Shame cuz coulda dome some cool things with an assassin themed class.

People see a theif aperearing from stealth back stabbing them etc and get salty and think their op damage which is a joke.every class has a high burst these days.whatvthey dont consider is thieves non stealth burst etc are garbage compared to their sustain when compared to most classes,then they complain about their mobility and resets as if their supposed to not have damage,not ne abke to escape and have the same mobility as other classes lmao, though alot of classes are getting close these days mobility wise. Theive needs a rework as know one has fun for long having to do the same cheese burst over and over and having to run all the time.

> @"Swagg.9236" said:

> My core staff ele build (2013):

> Attack: <3 <3 <3 <3

> Defense: <3

> Control: <3 <3 <3 <3

> Mobility: <3 <3 <3

> Evasion: <3 <3

>

> The exact same build in 2018 despite LUDICROUS powercreep:

> Attack: <3 <3 <3

> Defense: <3 <3

> Control: <3 <3 <3 <3

> Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3

> Evasion: <3 <3

> Revives: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

>

>

> > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > > http://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta

> > > 'It isn’t often that I’ll feel inclined to point the finger at a class or two in a massively multiplayer game and blame it for the woes of an entire game mode. While I certainly wouldn’t go that far here, I do believe the Thief and Mesmer and some of their mechanics are the cause of many problems in Guild Wars 2’s PvP'

> > >

> > > Thief and Mesmer

> > > (all specializations included)

> > >

> > > Attack- <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > Defense <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > Control <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > Evasion <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

> >

> > ????????

> >

> > It's 2015 post by a guy who thinks Thieves run Berserker amulet and as an example of the _"massive burst dmg'_ posts a 4,6k backstab vs Light Armor target which is god.kitten **NOTHING** compared to what most of the power professions can do with much better frequency.

> > **Literally** the only thing in that post which was true is that Thief has access to more stealth than others. Thief was +1 even before 2015... wonder how is that since that guy makes it sound like such an ultimate 1v1 killer.

>

> You say all that, and yet Thief and Mesmer have the exact same sort of builds even now. There has been zero deviance from their core playstyles despite sometimes getting extra buttons: everything is still just stealth/teleport bursts from 1200+ range through walls followed by attacking while evading. It's so meta that basically other classes in PvP have basically just become Thieves by design: Guardian, Revenant and even Ranger to a degree.

That's the problem most classes have had theives strengths added to their kit while being balanced around having good damage and sustain. Thieves arnt the ones that want to constantly use stealth and backstab to do damage, it's boring try to do the same simple cheese over and over.but blame arena net for its design.why would a thief sit there with s/d,dd,d/p and go toe to toe with classes that due to the powercrept state of the game have to hit their opponents 20 times more to down them than it takes to get downed? I dance around other classes with s/d and d/p all the time in wvw to avoid the backstab playstyle and I die constantly cuz I'll put play my opponent hard and hit them twice the amount they hit me and their sustain ie to much and heal thru it and if I mis one evade I'm dead,its ridiculous right now so u have to use cheese mechanics as a thief. And that's full maurader with assissin sig used.

I swear people die few times to a class in a row and to them its godly op than they go on forums speaking so much hyperbole lol.endless evades and stunbreaks?what? Incisor u love ur condi mirage yet reva prob the weakest class vs condi? Did u die to a few good rev?now their up there with thieves in ur op classes? It's like the classes u think are op the majority of people think are no where near op and the classes everyone thinks are op (condi mirage post patch) u think are fine.hmm I wonder

Lol this has to be a troll post, revs all one trick burst engagement and no disengagement.herald has one good heal with glint and not alot of stun breaks lol

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Thing is if spike was shaved off specs like soulbeast they'd still be great, take the spike from rev and what's it have? Least played class yet again would be the result lowering the the amount of classes played.soon gonna be the same 2 or three classes everywhere

>

> Spike is fine in the right contexts, but the herald's version isn't quite right. It's essentially acting like a much better version of the old D/P thief. On top of the incredible damage, it has some really good CC in both hard and soft CC forms (Immob, Slow, chill, weakness, plenty of pushes/knockbacks), plus a very strong ability to stall or escape with staff and shiro skills. It can also spike through walls as long as it has a target.

I agree I just mean rev needs more work other than a burst shave to make it viable with less burst cuz right now it's what keeping it from least played class as it was before

> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > @"Phoenixtwolf.9213" said:

> > > Deadly Arts is not a martial art. The name already explicitly says what kind of art it is.

> > > Shadow Arts is not a martial art. The name already explicitly says what kind of art it is.

> > > Critical Strike is not a martial art. If so, then the Pitcher of a baseball team is a martial artist.

> > > Acrobatics is no a martial art. If so, then the gymnasts are martial artists.

> > > Trickery is not a martial art. If so, street magic performers are martial artists.

> >

> > yes everyone of them used by Ninjutsu

> > And that silly statement about

> > Critical Strike is not a martial art. If so, then the Pitcher of a baseball team is a martial artist.

> > Acrobatics is no a martial art. If so, then the gymnasts are martial artists.

> > Trickery is not a martial art. If so, street magic performers are martial artists.

> >

> > believe it or not you can have more then one reason to use all of those skill like those

> > Heck Trickery is used not only like what was said: In street magic but also in football, basketball, and many more things you use trickery

> > Now I know there are some skills in this class which I not doubt would be listed int time so ill say it now yes mug will not heal you in rl (I guess you could say unless you mug some meds off some one lol) and the Signet of Malice don't think that really exist lol after all it is A GAME

> >

> > Just because you use Acrobatics or Critical strike or Trikcery does not make you a ninja (VERY TRUE) but that does not mean that a ninja does not use them

> > that comparison was not only childish it was stupid.

> >

>

> You missed the point. I'm debunking your argument that they are martial arts. They are not.

>

> Just because there are similarities, in example stealth, it doesn't necessarily makes them ninjas or practicing Ninjutsu. A street kid who is an expert in cut-purse tactic is a Thief, but not a Ninja. Just because the kid is a Thief, it doesn't makes the kid a martial artist.

>

> Your false logic is this;

> _Thief uses stealth._

> _Ninja uses stealth._

> _Therefore, Thief is a ninja._

>

> So when you take that logic and apply it to the following, you'll end up with these;

> _Mesmer uses stealth._

> _Ninja uses stealth._

> _Therefore, Mesmer is a ninja_

>

> _Engineer uses stealth._

> _Ninja uses stealth._

> _Therefore, Engineer is a ninja._

>

> Obviously, that logic fails under scrutiny.

>

> It seems to me that you're are having trouble following the logic. So, let me clarify my position.

>

> What I'm telling is this;

> _Thief uses stealth, critical strike, acrobatics, and trickery._

> _Ninja uses stealth, critical strike, acrobatics, and trickery._

> _However, it doesn't necessarily make the Thief a ninja._

>

> Another false logic you're using is the following;

> _Martial artists uses staff in combat._

> _Thief uses staff in combat._

> _Therefore, Thief is a martial artist._

>

> Why is this not true? That is because Daredevil is the martial artist, not the Thief. Thief has no access to the staff.

>

> So if you would argue that the Daredevil is a ninja, I have no objection since Donatello uses a staff and he's a ninja. However, you have to also accept that the Monkey King is a ninja, even if it's not true.

Yeah lol u debunked acrobatics can be used for other things other than martial arts just like trickery could be a illusionist theme or swords can be used by a ninja,samurai or knight. The fact is every traitline and description that's been said can apply to a ninja and judging by arenanet pictures for its traits and what the thief's utility skills are it's pretty clear to see what theme arenanet was going for as much as it seems u dont want it to be lol

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> > This just in:

> >

> > ThE kNoWlEdGeAbLe CoMmUnITy declares condi-Mirage still Anet's favorite child.

> >

> > In other news, truly overpowered specs continue avoiding proper nerfs.

>

> I mean, at some point people need to stop pushing for nerfing mirage.

>

> ....right?

I agree, other classes need the attention more.

Trickery trait line pic is clearly a black ninja, the line increases utility though trickery techniques, not specifically ninja but is definitely in relation to one,same as deadly arts. Cs is a pic of white ninja and line increase strikes dps making them deadlier, not specific to ninja but in relation etc..the only aspect of thief that is not related or indicative of a ninja type assassin is the use of guns and pistols,literally all utilities core or otherwise are common ninjitsu tactics whether true to history or film fiction.

I dont get the title. Who said it did and why does it matter? I dont know who's on the favorable side of said fight but why is it any more worse for warrior to be on the favorable side or vice versa? Condi mirage will do well against some classes and not others,cant expect it to be in the favorable position in ever engagement.

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> I have scepter 3 on nerflist although I don't agree, I mean dealing that kind of damage is easy nowadays on every profession.

> Nerf scepter and mesmers will not have a single good mainhand..

>

It's simple if scepter is too high in the dps dapartment but other weapons are low than nerf scepter dps and bring dps up on other weapons, also creating more variety in builds. Not that compensation is common with nerfs

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> My lord, the victims in this thread who are attacked when they don't want to PvP. I'm one of those people that's too nice for my own good, I give others the benefit of the doubt when I shouldn't. And you know what happens when I let someone pass me untouched, or when I don't add to a fight against a player who's having a 1v1/is outnumbered? I see them 3 minutes later with friends and they gank me.

>

> My own stupidity for expecting anything different so I'm not playing the "why me" card. But this is why you get attacked when you obviously don't want to fight. Because you can't tell me you won't turn around and try to attack someone as soon as you outnumber them.

Haha sooooo much this ^ that or they'll complain about bankers all day long but have no problem chasing down a solo or small group with their giant zerg as has happened to me many times and I mean a large chunk of a zerg chasing me far. It's all good when ur the one ganking lol

Chrono,soulbeast,holo,scrapper,rev burst,spbr,scourge(wvw) and fb are all powercrept and need a couple swatts from the nerf hammer

Substtituting any form of ranger in general still applies really. Mirage after patch is not useless but nor is it overperforming, anyone calling mirage op these days is doing so due to disliking the class itself not because its performance,as a mesmer player u might as well get used to it as thief's do. mesmer could lose 90% of its burst and still be called op due to how it engages opponents it's a salt generator just like thieves are

Thing is if spike was shaved off specs like soulbeast they'd still be great, take the spike from rev and what's it have? Least played class yet again would be the result lowering the the amount of classes played.soon gonna be the same 2 or three classes everywhere

I'd like an actual ninja spec with good 1v1 ability and actual impactful ninjitsu traps/utilities like caltrops, smoke bombs,blow darts etc that actually effect a engagement just need new two handed skills for one handed sword models with a ninja sword skin( not a huge katana) or dual kama's. A tiger claw utility to climb walls be cool.

> @"incisorr.9502" said:

> shh don't tell them mes scep 3 is broken XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

> 

>

>

> that pet skill is instant on swap unlike scep 3 and for the record a ranger using the same build said that "scep3 oneshots me" and then i asked him to come to arena

>

> 3300 damage with deadshot amulet (condi/no power)

> 6.5ish with wizard amulet

>

> 11.5k ~ with marauder (poweR+ferocity) **AND** 25 might stacks

>

> so the 2nd slowest skill in the game, with 25 might stacks which on mirage is hard to get, with +ferocity is still doing less damage than a pet instant ability but lets keep being biased and ignoring the facts bois owo

I donno man I dont think comparing mes to THEE most op spec in the game really shows mirage being in a bad spot as most classes are in comparison to soulbeast when looking at dps sustain etc

Consume plasma is op, dagger storm is op, improv rnging dagger storm is op and MBS is op. When erena net takes a real look at thief as a whole and brings the rest of the class UP to the level of all classes save for eli and renegade who need work to than they should start thinking on how to shave these skills but right now thief needs these to be relevant. Or nerf all classes way down across the board,either be good :)

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > Love the revanant (herald) class and find it really enjoyable in wvw but having a hard time disengaging when being focused by multiple players and no hope of winning/surviving the fight. U kno rev has ports that need enemy or non friendly targets with sword and staff 5 gains u some distance but they are very undependable for the purpose of escaping. I'm not asking or saying rev needs more disengagement skills at all just wondering what the long time rev players do if they need to escape situations that are dire for them?

> > >

> > > Not a long time Rev player but Shiro is what I use to escape. First I'll use Reposting Shadows to break stuns and clear any movement impairing condi. Then I'll switch to staff and and walk away while blocking, then use staff 5, and after that pop impossible odds to get super speed. If I run out of energy, I'll swap to Glint and use the ultimate for more super speed.

> >

> > Thanks for the tips. I'm still in the process of getting all the skills trained to muscle memory,wvw is fun during this process lol

>

> Me too. I've been doing GvG with Herald and it's a lot of fun to bomb people with hammer. I've been practicing more small scale pvp in the sPvP arena, it's not been going well. xD

Yeah dont feel bad I would get destroyed in pvp right now lol but more experienced people are doing well with rev in pvp si atleast we hopefully have that to look forward to with some practice:)

Thief has lowest hp,one ok block if slated in the utility alot.its has evades and ports to counter balance its lack of hp,blocks and invulnerability skills it doesnt have. sword,dagger(except MBS) and pistol all do garbage dps and the burst is lower than other classes with way more sustain ie holo,soulbeast,warrior,rev and guard lmoa. Thief does decent damage through few cheese one trick burst and that's it, it has so many downsides these days to powercreep. Only weapon that does decent dps is staff through vault spam(real fun) and rifle(not great any more really) thief cant really lose its mobility advantage to war claw especially since it's been losing ground in mobility as it is with classes getting mobility buffs over the last couple years.GO try facing any other with dd,s/d or p/d without using cheap invisibility backstab methods and see how trading blows goes for u.ull not only see why thief players resort to cheap methods but also why they need evade and ports to run away lol

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Love the revanant (herald) class and find it really enjoyable in wvw but having a hard time disengaging when being focused by multiple players and no hope of winning/surviving the fight. U kno rev has ports that need enemy or non friendly targets with sword and staff 5 gains u some distance but they are very undependable for the purpose of escaping. I'm not asking or saying rev needs more disengagement skills at all just wondering what the long time rev players do if they need to escape situations that are dire for them?

>

> Not a long time Rev player but Shiro is what I use to escape. First I'll use Reposting Shadows to break stuns and clear any movement impairing condi. Then I'll switch to staff and and walk away while blocking, then use staff 5, and after that pop impossible odds to get super speed. If I run out of energy, I'll swap to Glint and use the ultimate for more super speed.

Thanks for the tips. I'm still in the process of getting all the skills trained to muscle memory,wvw is fun during this process lol

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:

> > Being able to pick fights was the only advantage of roamers and neccessary to handle outnumbered situations.

>

> Partially disagree. Your scenario only currently applies while the roamer is in enemy territory. In friendly territory, your warclaw runs faster than that of your opponent, so again, you can get away in an outnumbered situation.

>

> In enemy territory? Yeah, you're going to be at a disadvantage in the scenario described above, but then, I've also witnessed several times, enemy players (Mesmers/Thieves/Engineers/Eles/Rangers) fleeing an outnumbered fight and escape/evading, either through mobility skills, stealth skills, or a combination of the two.

>

> The roamer aslo remains at an advantage when you are trying to chase down an enemy player In your territory, provided of course they can dismount them.

>

> > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:

> > The mount takes away from the roamers without compensation and gives to the zerglings without any trade-off.

>

> I agree, but what is so frustrating is that, in my opinion, roamers don't seem to understand/acknowledge that pre-warclaw, the game was NOT on an even footing.

> It isn't as if pre-warclaw it was Roamers - 100% / Everyone else - 100%, and now with the warclaw it's Roamers - 80% / Everyone else - 120%.

>

> Those who played the high mobility roaming builds had an advantage over every other build out there. In essence pre-warclaw it was Roamers - 120% / Everyone else - 80%

>

> So I completely agree that the warclaw took from roamers and gave to everyone else, only now, both are at 100%

>

> In other words: balanced.

>

> I'd also like to add that it's well and cute that roamers want to make this all a "roamers" vs "zergling" issue, always of course denigrating the "zergling", but hey, at least nobody has accused all people who zerg of being alt-right Trump supporters, so we haven't circled the drain completely yet. But nobody seems to want to acknowledge that there are roamers who like the Warclaw. There are roamers who now can run different builds, different runes, or different professions now with the warclaw, and that has been a positive change for them.

>

> > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:

> >Which indirectly worsens issues even many zerglings are complaining about, such as lag, PvD, "empty" maps, server stacking and population imbalance.

>

> The lag is certainly an issue, but given how the mount won't be going anywhere ever, I see no point in bringing it up; rather it is now up to ANET to find a technical solution, as will it is worse now with the warclaw, skill lag has always been present, and should have been addressed a long time ago.

>

> As for PvD, empty maps, server stacking and population imbalance....are we going to start saying now that the warclaw is responsible for climate change and for Hilary Clinton losing the 2016 election as well? Sorry, unless you can provide more detail on how you can attribute the warclaw to any of those issues, you're just reaching.

Arent classes that were generally used for roaming balanced around having higher mobility than other classes? Did other classes lose somthing for gained mobility or did high mobility classes gain somthing? Missed it if they did I gues.

> @"Fantasylife.7981" said:

> the Nerf to rigious instinct was just unnecessary with all the powerful classes out there. :(

Yet sic em exist!