Psycoprophet.8107

> @"dDuff.3860" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > > If D/P Daredevil is not meta with 1200 steal, why do you bring meta as an argument against that 600 tradeoff?

> > > >

> > > > Maybe steal isn't the reason for the state in which the spec finds itself currenty?

> > > >

> > > > Staff daredevil is too strong at the moment. It has everything. Gap closers, blocks, evades, aoe, disengages, endurance refilling skills. A staff daredevil can duell any spec in the game for forever due to damage avoidance and disengages + reengages. Thief players who don't agree might try it or if they already did, then eventuelly get good at the game.

> > > >

> > > > D/P is such a strong utility set (stealth at will, interrupt chains, blinds, unblockable shadowsteps) that it HAS TO BE weak in fighting capability. If you want to be a strong fighting class, then pick a damage weaponcombo and not a utility combo like d/p+sb.

> > >

> > > This patch is going to change whole dd into dueler melee spec, forcing ppl into staff. It kills build diversity, as d/p is a roamer spec and this patch is going to take his mobility away. Roamer without mobility is kitten.

> > > If staff is so strong, tell when did u see it last time in finals/semifinals of any mat?

> >

> > Ud think arenanet might notice only build in high level being used on thief is s/d and want to improve build diversity and increase build options instead of decrease it.but that's their logic I gues,force people to use staff and be in melee range but not give it enough to be viable lol.

>

> Actually, pre-deadeye nerf it was pretty effective in high level play, now it 'kinda' dead.

> Same goes for D/p thief, it is relatively effective to the point it can win games when played perfectly, I guess after patch it'll be 'kinda' dead.

> 'Kinda' means you still can play it in solos, duos, but any competent enemy team will prevent you from being effective, by zoning you out and beating the kitten out of you.

> So after patch, most likely we'll see only core s/d, that has been here for like 2 years now, and, probably, some meme staff dodger with unblockable steals. If thats a build diversity we deserve, I guess it might be a time to rest from the game.

A nerf is unsuccessful if a class almost disappears in high level. An effective successfull nerd shouldtone down a spec all while still being viable in its role and enjoyable to play. Unfortunately that rarely happens here lol

> @"derd.6413" said:

> > @"Sniper.5961" said:

> > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > @"borgs.6103" said:

> > > > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > > > @"borgs.6103" said:

> > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > > > > > @"borgs.6103" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > > > > > > why do i get the distinct feeling everybody is forgetting DD's third dodge in this whole discussion

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Because the issue is if Swipe becoming an unblockable steal worth the 600 range nerf to it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > perhaps however the 600 range seems a tradeoff for the unblockable steal and the extra dodge and not just the unblockable steal.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Daredevils arlready had that extra dodge though before the upcoming "Swipe" change.

> > > > >

> > > > > the swipe change came because of the extra dodge.

> > > > > like how pets get nerfed when equiping druid because of celestial avatar and why berserker mode is gonna replaces the F1 skills from now on.

> > > > >

> > > > > > Also, maybe you know this or not, but before Daredevils came, thieves used to already have 3 dodges from the Acrobatics traitline. Then they nerfed that and added it to daredevil as "something new" for the elite spec.

> > > > >

> > > > > that's irrelevant to this discussion

> > > >

> > > > Yeah, I get your point. Still the same argument though, just add the extra dodge now to the trade-off.

> > > >

> > > > It's counter-productive IMO to their goal of making Daredevils more melee-oriented to nerf a gap-closer.

> > >

> > > i don't really see it become an issue given that even without steal thief is among the more mobile classes (if not the most mobile class)

> >

> > i think i already explained the issue with this enough here is a quick rundown:

> >

> > - d/p daredevil getts nerfed even though it was more underperforming then overperforming and a situational build wich makes it not viable anymore thous d/p as a weaponset will not be usefull anymore.

> > - builddiversity is reduced because of it

> > - staff daredevil with swipe is a sub par duelist and a sub par roamer wich makes daredevil as a whole not viable in competitive pvp anymore.

> > - the daredevil traitline was already in line with the core traitlines we didnt forget the 3. dodge thats a grandmastertrait like impro exe or slight of hand all powerfull and none has a tradeoff. The other traitlines are so much in line that when you play the meta s/d build you dont take daredevil at all because even without any tradeoff right now 3 core traitlines are just straight up stonger then what the daredevil has to offer right now nerfing it would make it a sub par taitline and a nerf compared to core thief wich means noone would play daredevil anymore. The tradeoff is halving range of steal for unblockable steal not halving range of steal to compensate for the merits daredevil has to offer that is a non issue.

> > - in general the idea of making a thief a pointholder is not going to work without a massive overhall of the class becasue a soon as you buff daredevil to be a pointholder on par with other pointholder you have a problem because of shortbow and its mobility.

> > - when you nerf the range of steal you cant steal from a lot of spots you where able to before. You have to stay in a range where you get more damage where the enemy sees you quicker and steal as an engage skill will get a huge hit so huge that the entre gameplay of the class as a roamer will become not viable. S/D and rev are after the far better roamer.

>

> the thing is that all those are balance issues while this change seems more of a design change

True but it would be only common sense to due the design change when u do the balance change(if there even is one) that way the design change works as intended and or spec works as intended. As it stands now DD with any weapon set used with DD will be a underperforming roamer,point holder and generally wont be viable compared to other classes in any role,its just silly.

Sry I gues I wasn't very clear lol I got attacked multiple times and could hear and see the damage taken but the enemy never revealed even through stomp so was never visible. There was definitely no ranger LBing me from range etc. As a thief anytime I do damage when stealthed I get revealed.

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > @"Basharic.1654" said:

> > > > Here's my question:

> > > >

> > > > _With this update, we are adding a trade-off to the profession skill that keeps the theme of a melee-oriented specialization._

> > > >

> > > > How does removing a Daredevil's ability to use steal to close a long gap help us melee in any way?

> > > >

> > > > If Anet wants us to melee they should be giving us **more** abilities to stick to a target not less. The range drop would be appropriate if we were getting something useful towards that end. Unblockable isn't it.

> > > >

> > > > Maybe something like:

> > > >

> > > > Physical Supremacy: This trait changes Steal to Hitched, which tethers the target to the thief and gives the thief a stolen skill and X seconds of X% base damage reduction. Toughness improves total reduction. Neither can leave 600 range of each other for X seconds. Stunbreaks used by either the thief or it's target will break the link. If either party attempts to use a skill to get out of range that is not a stun break it results in a knockdown and puts that skill on cooldown + X seconds. Stability applied after Hitched is engaged counters certain effects of Hitched but does not remove it - That means an attempted non-stunbreak maneuver to get out of range won't give the knockdown but the target still can't leave range. Stability applied before would prevent it of course.

> > > >

> > > > It would work a lot like Guardian's Ring of Warding while allowing some counterplay for the target and helping the thief to be toe to toe for the duration. Most importantly it offers significant risk/reward choices in its use. Which is all I want.

> > > >

> > > > And if you wanted to make it **_really_** sexy and give thief a GvG/WvW group perk, let it affect targets in an AOE. Would force the thief to use discretion on its use in small scale and be great for locking down targets for bombs.

> > >

> > > As if thief wasn't op enough in gvg setups

> >

> > Only thing thiefs OP at is running away.

>

> Sorry but I guess you have no idea of thiefs, especially daredevils current position in gvgs

>

> Cause you know, outsustaining multiple 18k hit jumps that can hit 5 people is pretty hard.

>

> Look at good thiefs. It's the thieves a lot of the times, that down people or that prevent people from rezzing.

>

> "Not every spec has to be very good in every gamemode." That's what someone told me. And that's true.

>

> Else: make reaper and scourge and core insane for roaming, cause they suck at it.

>

> Thief does at least have its place in zergfights and roaming with many different builds, necro is mostly limited to exactly one or two variations of scourge in zergs

>

> And in roaming any good thief will always kill a necro.

>

> Also thief has a very good spot in pve raids.

>

> So what exactly are you crying about?

>

>

Lmao I've played the class 4 yrs I know how they play.ofcourse a good roaming thief will kite and beat a necro,a necro can definitely destroy a thief if it tries to take on the necro in melee range but why would it unless the thief doesnt want to play using its mobility advantage over necro.i dont even use necro much but I've ate theives I'm melee range on my reaper. Theif is among the weakest 1v1 classes and necro happens to be one of the few classes that it can kite but like I said in melee even a dd is st a disadvantage against reaper unless ur not a good reaper. Thief is so OP in a pvp mode its given job is to decap and help out ally's that are already engaged,why? Because the few it can maybe 1v1 successfully it takes to long and waste time cuz its gbage dps and is always a gamble. A class doesnt get those jobs if its OP lmao unless getting to point A to B is a thing than that's what its OP at and who wants to play a class that's OP at that?real fun. If ur dying to thieves that arnt using niche stealth backstab one trick pony buildsvthats a definite l2p issue on ur part.

As a marauder geared thief getting downed off one set of rapid fires all while having decent sustain isn't op at all lmao. I love when people use ridiculous arguements to try and defend their blatently OP specs like learn to dodge etc lol. U could have a class that one shots other classes with every skill,so is it balanced due to its attacks being dodgable?

> @"MrPhantasia.5924" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Arkantos.7460" said:

> > > > @"MrPhantasia.5924" said:

> > > > > @"Falan.1839" said:

> > > > > After some overperforming builds from the last meta were nerfed, Spellbreaker is back in full force and there is already a lot of complaints about there. I think a lot of the issues with it could be resolved by tuning down rampage. It would hit Holo aswell, but it would definitely keep being viable (I play pretty much exclusively without Elixir X on a high level).

> > > > >

> > > > > The general mechanic of Rampage however is overstacked with benefits and promotes lazy gameplay. First of all there is the extremely high dps potential on every single skill, that gets boosted even further by several dmg modifiers on warrior. In addition to that you gain 2 very useful movement skills - sometimes leading high lvl warriors to use Rampage just to disengage. On top of that you have very strong potential, (4 CCS) and a ranged cc with high dps. That in itself is already a very strong combination. However, to make things worse, you also get permanent pulsing stability AND a very strong defense (dmg reduction and increased hp pool). If you tether your enemy before activating it you can also additionally get extra might and reveal, negating another possible counterplay (strength). So basically there is almost no counterplay except extremely high corrupt/boonrip pressure on the stability paired with cc. That is unlikely to ever work in a 1v1 situation, where you are usually busy avoiding the big hits (aka all of them).

> > > > >

> > > > > So, in my opinion, at least 2 aspects of this bundle (damage, CC, movement, stability, defense) have to go. I'm personally In favour of removing the stability and defensive bonuses, making it a high risk high reward play, with still very strong combination of damage, CC and mobility but the possibility of being punished by counter CC with no available stunbreak and no increased defense to just facetank through it. As of now it's a very high reward play with close to zero risks.

> > > >

> > > > > @"melandru.3876" said:

> > > > > a holo complaining about warrior

> > > > >

> > > > > holo, which is the most broken (with boonbeast) out there

> > > > > mobility, stealth, sustain, burst, boons, you name it, ranged pressure, melee pressure, cc

> > > > >

> > > > > oh and id i forget the broken forge skilsl? i love when forge 5 hits me through a freaking wall.

> > > > >

> > > > > if only holos would also have access to rampage, oh wait they do albeit it on a 50% chance...

> > > > >

> > > > > can't have it all right

> > > >

> > > > Both Holosmith and Spellbreaker are the most balanced, **high risk high reward**, highest skill cap builds to have ever existed in entire history of Guild Wars 2 which is why Anet left them completely untouched this upcoming balance patch.

> > >

> > > hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaha high risk?! what game you were playing ...

> >

> > These have to be troll posts lmao

>

> Mirage main spotted.

Lol oh yes major mirage main

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Basharic.1654" said:

> > Here's my question:

> >

> > _With this update, we are adding a trade-off to the profession skill that keeps the theme of a melee-oriented specialization._

> >

> > How does removing a Daredevil's ability to use steal to close a long gap help us melee in any way?

> >

> > If Anet wants us to melee they should be giving us **more** abilities to stick to a target not less. The range drop would be appropriate if we were getting something useful towards that end. Unblockable isn't it.

> >

> > Maybe something like:

> >

> > Physical Supremacy: This trait changes Steal to Hitched, which tethers the target to the thief and gives the thief a stolen skill and X seconds of X% base damage reduction. Toughness improves total reduction. Neither can leave 600 range of each other for X seconds. Stunbreaks used by either the thief or it's target will break the link. If either party attempts to use a skill to get out of range that is not a stun break it results in a knockdown and puts that skill on cooldown + X seconds. Stability applied after Hitched is engaged counters certain effects of Hitched but does not remove it - That means an attempted non-stunbreak maneuver to get out of range won't give the knockdown but the target still can't leave range. Stability applied before would prevent it of course.

> >

> > It would work a lot like Guardian's Ring of Warding while allowing some counterplay for the target and helping the thief to be toe to toe for the duration. Most importantly it offers significant risk/reward choices in its use. Which is all I want.

> >

> > And if you wanted to make it **_really_** sexy and give thief a GvG/WvW group perk, let it affect targets in an AOE. Would force the thief to use discretion on its use in small scale and be great for locking down targets for bombs.

>

> As if thief wasn't op enough in gvg setups

Only thing thiefs OP at is running away.

> @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > If D/P Daredevil is not meta with 1200 steal, why do you bring meta as an argument against that 600 tradeoff?

> >

> > Maybe steal isn't the reason for the state in which the spec finds itself currenty?

> >

> > Staff daredevil is too strong at the moment. It has everything. Gap closers, blocks, evades, aoe, disengages, endurance refilling skills. A staff daredevil can duell any spec in the game for forever due to damage avoidance and disengages + reengages. Thief players who don't agree might try it or if they already did, then eventuelly get good at the game.

> >

> > D/P is such a strong utility set (stealth at will, interrupt chains, blinds, unblockable shadowsteps) that it HAS TO BE weak in fighting capability. If you want to be a strong fighting class, then pick a damage weaponcombo and not a utility combo like d/p+sb.

>

> This patch is going to change whole dd into dueler melee spec, forcing ppl into staff. It kills build diversity, as d/p is a roamer spec and this patch is going to take his mobility away. Roamer without mobility is kitten.

> If staff is so strong, tell when did u see it last time in finals/semifinals of any mat?

Ud think arenanet might notice only build in high level being used on thief is s/d and want to improve build diversity and increase build options instead of decrease it.but that's their logic I gues,force people to use staff and be in melee range but not give it enough to be viable lol.

Ull only hate it more u play unfortunately and if u dont go back to pve soon and forget the garbage that is this games pvp soon ull hold so much frustration and dislike for the game ull not even feel like doing pve and just leave to another vid lol

To late now no longer on lol.No point really if no ones around around yet I'm hearing and taking damage and get stomped with no one in sight lol,I've been playing four yrs I know when I'm being killed by an invisible player.just wondering if it's a new bug anyones seen or a hacking loser

I just got killed twice by nothing.took two hits both time to kill,no aoe Mark's and no ranged attacks or destealth on attack nothing and than was stumped all while somthing was invisible?what class can go invisible and not be revealed on attack?

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> the balance team need to work on Dagger Storm and Rampage

Yeah with all the bs in the game nerf theif more? lmao

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> If D/P Daredevil is not meta with 1200 steal, why do you bring meta as an argument against that 600 tradeoff?

>

> Maybe steal isn't the reason for the state in which the spec finds itself currenty?

>

> Staff daredevil is too strong at the moment. It has everything. Gap closers, blocks, evades, aoe, disengages, endurance refilling skills. A staff daredevil can duell any spec in the game for forever due to damage avoidance and disengages + reengages. Thief players who don't agree might try it or if they already did, then eventuelly get good at the game.

>

> D/P is such a strong utility set (stealth at will, interrupt chains, blinds, unblockable shadowsteps) that it HAS TO BE weak in fighting capability. If you want to be a strong fighting class, then pick a damage weaponcombo and not a utility combo like d/p+sb.

Lmao DD to strong? Wtf d/p has to be week cuz utility.this post is so ridiculous I'm not even gonna say what I was gonna cuz it be wasted.

DD so weak core is meta and not cuz its great but cuz its bestvthiefs got.non thief players are glad the class is garbage so all ur gonna get is thieves adapt replies cuz after the yrs most the community has wanted them right where they are and arenet doesnt have the balls to keep with their initial design of thieves so now their low sustain medium damage class,sounds lije the right balance lmao now thier nerfing the steal range for useless trade off that nerfs other builds at same time.so thoughtless.

> @"choovanski.5462" said:

> > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > > @"choovanski.5462" said:

> > > i have been, along with a few pals thinking of coming back & giving this game another go. those specialisation reworks are pretty rad for old jaded rev & warrior mains.

> > >

> > > thing is, we don’t own the expansion & aren’t super keen to buy it right now (as were not sure if we will stick around). am i to understand that roaming is pretty much dead, & PoF & a warclaw are now mandatory for WvW? because thats how it seems from what @"KellionBane.4956" @"Vargs.6234" & others have said.

> > >

> > > so i guess we just shouldn’t play wvw? thats seems like what we have to do as old roamers who don’t own PoF if we don’t want to buy powercreep. doesn’t seem like wvw without the mount is any fun.

> > >

> > > not sure if that makes the gamemode healthy @"Trevor Boyer.6524" , somehow i don’t see it. seems like P2W to me...

> >

> > If you could try it out and give some feedback here that would be great. The more people speak of their experience the more it will help bring things hopefully into line.

>

> sure. when the rework patch for berserker & rev comes out, we will give it a look. i must say though, we are expecting to not be able to have fun in WvW & just play Spvp. WvW looks like it’s completely gone down the toilet

Depends if u consider half a zerg just standing there while scourges flood the area in front of them with circles,rangers and revs pew pew from range while few players sit on cannons while the other server just stands back for half hr or so waiting for more players to join so they dont intact die in a push as going down the toilet lmao such a fun game mode theyve created lol

Next arenet change to kneel is when in kneel all skills have 50% reduction in dps and rifle skills are now 600 range.i joke but sad reality is one of the balance team would read this and think it's a plausible change.

Love running maurader gear on thief d/p build and bursting tiny chunks off the meta builds hp even with assassins signet only to get one or two shot by a meta builds dps with 10xthe sustain if I miss one dodge.great job balance team lmoa or getting caught if 10 red circles unable to move while just getting destroyed.or watching classes continually reheal themselves while other cant all while having same amount of dps.or in wvw groups just sitting and throwing boulders and petw pewing with rangers while the other server just stands there cuz approaching means death from the rangers,catapults and scourge ring lol fun playstyle. I honestly have a hard time believing the balance team have played the game let alone other classes for more than 5 minutes lmao

I love running a marauder gears thief with assissin sig d/p pistol and doing burst that take tiny chunks outa the meta builds lmao than get 1 to 2 shot if I miss one dodge,good jobe balance team

Why not? Cuz that would require some actual thought and work on the balance teams end and judging by the past thiefs not to high on their priority list.

Remove the steal unblockable,add a 3 sec invulnerability on steal and done.now DD matches the powercreep of other classes and is now viable as a 1v1 :)

> @"kin korn karn.9023" said:

> Are you guys being serious?

>

> Boonbeast has been arguably the very weakest of any viable side-noder since it got nerfed last time. It has decent sustain but no real burst. Warriors, Mirages, and Holos will feel no pressure and eventually wear Boonbeast down. Chrono and Scrapper will stalemate. Boonbeast's only real burst is Whirling Defense, which requires the enemy to stay in one place for 5 seconds to pull off. If you die 1v1 to a Boonbeast, you simply got outplayed. Also, just about any Necromancer should eat Boonbeast alive or push him away.

>

> As for the OP, that's pretty adorable. You're clearly talking about two separate builds as if they were one.

I honestly just cant ^

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Dave.6819" said:

> > Daredevil Steal 600 range? No ty. Uninstallin. Class is alrdy dead and u take it the next level further.

>

> Dead?

> Maybe you just don't know how to play it?

> Pve it's pretty good and wvw as well.

Nah it's pretty dead,played it almost 4 yrs,had to have learned somthing.we'll see how many play it 6 months from now lol I'm guessing u dont play it aswell?.

> @"Kraljevo.2801" said:

> > @"Erzian.5218" said:

> > ESO is a good game but it really suffers from performance issues (cyrodil always lagging, monthly login issues for steam users, now the newly found login queue during prime time, horrible fps drops on weaker cpus). What makes this is even worse is that the main difficulty of eso (attack weaving) is highly susceptible to low performance. If the their servers and game engine were better, it would be an amazing game (assuming you don't mind that pretty much every skills is instant and most cast animations can be canceled so that's impossible to actually see what's going on).

> > If you like smooth movement and combat, you should stick to gw2 as ESO just feels super clunky compared to it.

>

> Yep, the game is really sensitive to packet loss to the point where it can cause 10 minute loading screens. If you're using WiFi (for whatever reason) and want to play pvp in ESO, forget about it.

>

That's crappy.i never use wifi for online so been really good but that would definitely be anoying

> @"Dave.6819" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Dave.6819" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > Hey Dave! Maybe see u in game,got ESO made a dark elf nightblade toon,combats not quite as fleshed out as gw2 but man everything else seems so much better.nightblade just got some nerfs but still feels like it has far more identity as a rogue class that what's left of thief here. DD now worse +1 and will still be a garbage 1v1,d/p had flavor added with repeater but nothing to actually make it viable against the powercrept state of game and DD d/p is even worse now lmao. Clueless balance team,maybe try playing the classes for a decent amount of time before changing them just for the sake of changing them.good luck everyone with s/d for the next year.id give the next poster my gold but I only have 8g left so not very wealthy lmao.

> > >

> > > I saw what they did to Physical Supremacy. They made daredevils steal 600 range. lol... I was still rockin Daredevil always. D/P for PvP. Staff for PvE. Now.. i'm rly glad i quitted this game. To think that thief will be buffed to have those empty hopes? How naive of us. They nerfed it even more haha. I gotta check the news on ESO btw been awhile since i played. Didnt hear what they did to nightblades. I'm sure they r still alright tho.

> >

> > Magblade took a decent hit last patch, stamblade builds not as hard.the new necro class is aperantly really strong.

> > Yeah no sense hoping to see thief get anything meaningful.arenet balance team tends to either go too far with buffs or not far enough and when its regarding thief it's always not far enough due to arenanet not wanting backlash by biased non thief players so itl most likely stay a weak disengage class for the games entirety.

>

> I wish they'd remove some ESO Plus disadvantages (like craft bag....) and fix their server latency. That's the main issues with ESO. If servers would be handled well and some features available for not buying ESO Plus... i'd never even look at any of MMOs anymore. I'd live in ESO 24/7. Those 2 things rly bummed me out after some years.

Yeah that's totally understandable.my couple buds that left gw2 few months ago to go to ESO both bought all the add ons and sub for eso plus, I just got standard eddition cuz wanted to try it out and they definitely got alot of perks lol they definitely didnt grind to level 10 before getting a mount. I can see me checking out wvw in gw from time to time but that be about it with where this games heading,eso seems to far ahead of this game as far as everything else to return to this boring mess.

> @"wanya.1697" said:

> I play condi trap core thief as main as it provides cc condi dmg perma stealth and superspeed and 10k range backteleport

> if enemy team does not have bunker I can control 2 cap points on my own

Yeah let's see some vids of u controlling multple points lmao.i can easily type thief is fine I can often 1v3 successfully but doesnt make it true.