Psycoprophet.8107

Honestly it's a bit silly. Having 3/4 or more of ur health deleted by one skill due to OP modifiers as well as often being unblockable needs to be looked at and fast. What makes it worse is that it's done from 1500 + range lmao. Things arenanet nerf and the things they dont are baffling

> @"Balsa.3951" said:

> yes one shots are broken and boring but they give ppl the illusion of they are not that bad.

>

> but ppl here will defend everything with get gud..

>

> I dont think DE is OP but its for sure a boring class to play against

I agree 100% but we all know if DE was given multiple means of being effective, heck change that to even one other mean so the DE doesnt have to rely on that one trick to get downs the forums would be in a uproar that whatever means were added are now op lol. Arenet really needs to decide on what they want thier thief class/specs to be and stay true to it and only listen to the community cry's about issues that dont change the classes intended purpose and design as well as be very careful changing things as a result of the cry's of non thief players or u get this result. A class that no longer fits it's in game description and is a jumbled mess.

A very glassy class with low hp that uses active defenses like evades and dodges as its sustain and not passive means of sustain and or blocks and invulnerability skills needs to get in quick and secure the kill or get out. Right now u can get in quick but against today's sustainable classes u cant secure the quick kill and u get stomped with ease unless u disengage. Yes quick burst AND disengagement play styles cause alot of salt but that's what a rogue class is soposed to be and do. Arenetet for the most part should have outright ignored most crys against thief knowing that creating a character with the rogue archetype would inevitably cause alot of salt doing what they do. Instead they let the community push them into changing the thief into a embarrassment of a class.

> @"Jack Redline.5379" said:

> you know what else is not good? putting updog on the shelf

What do u mean DD not good?

U saying adding like 2% sustain to class with otherwise horrible sustain didnt put it into a good viable brawling position.

Is it not good because the slow and easily interruptible skills like dust strike and weakening strikes usually end up u eating damage.

Or is it because the swipe change almost deleted DD d/p builds.

Or maybe it's because DE had to spend 85% of its playtime leaping through smoke fields wasting ini when scrapper can do 12 sec(was 15) at a click of a button lol

These dev's are somthing else lol

Thief I literally a garbage class now, good job arenanet. DD is over all worse now at what it did.adding like 2% more sustain to a class that has horrible sustain will not make it a viable brawler. The range nerf hit d/p hard, a already weak build. DE stealth was nerfed for what? So u could give scrapper 15 sec of it at push of button(now 12) and recently mesmers stealth. While DE the stealth sniperclass had to spend 80% of its playtime leaping through smoke fields lmao like seriously? Here comes another ban for saying somthing negative about the company lmao ridiculous.

> @"praqtos.9035" said:

> Spammable immob that hits you for 5k? Indeed nothing to see here folks

I'm confused. Are u talking about soulbeast,holo,warrior among others that not only have immobilize skills but more burst and sustain? Oh right I forgot thief has infinite ini and can spam at will with no impact to all its weapon skills unlike CD lmao.just wish DE players would switch specs so we'd see more specs than just DE in plat lmao. In wvw DE is so oppressive wish the'yd all switch to fb,scourge,herald,soulbeast pew pew or spellbreaker lmao be soo much better.

Lmao these forums are somthing else. Staying stealthed on DE is the most anoying class to stealth play as I'm sure they'd rather pop a gyro and just do what they gotta do in 12 or so seconds than constantly use ini to leap fields and what's the roll give? One sec lol. People complain about one shots from a paper thin class when rangers,holo,mesmers can all do close to one shots from stealth and alot of other classes have one shot burst especially on thieves all while being sustainy,have blocks/invulnerability and actually do dps outside of bursts lol.

Seriously stop the whining and just delete the class already. Replace it with a glass spec that does low noodle dps overall and and give it one telegraphed burst so the whining will stop lol oh wait! Lol

Anything that actually has viable burst potential vs the monster classes these days,what it is matters little to me.

> @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > > > Reduce the duration of Black Powder field. Give the thief enough time to Use it once in an open field. But juuuust enough time where it's incredibly difficult for the thief to use it a second time in an open field (Not leaping into the wall).

> > > > >

> > > > > Because of the reduced duration, **REDUCE THE INITIATIVE COST TO COMPENSATE OR SPEED UP THE CAST TIME**

> > > >

> > > > No way. Black Powder was already nerfed to tick every 2s instead of every 1s. It only pulses 3 times and reducing the duration will mean that it will only pulse 2 times. You cannot satisfy both 2s ticks and 3 pulse with a shorter duration. Either you speed up the ticks for the shorter duration, or you reduce the number of pulse to 2.

> > >

> > > Black powder should change into an ammo skill with 0 recharge in the skill itself as always, but 3 skill ammo and 6-10s recharge on the ammo., then have its initiative cost reduced to 4, freeing potential initiative to use other skills.

> > > It's not the only thief skill that should be changed to have ammo, so it can still be used in succession with initiative, but not spammed too often.

> > > Infiltrator's arrow is another one. That one should have just 2 charges, and recharge them every 12-15s, then have its initiative cost reduced to just 3.

> >

> > They can't do that. That will open up a whole can of worms where they start adding CD on Thief's weapon skills. Even if it is a CD for the Ammo, it would still be the first weapon skill with CD.

>

> What people want and what has to be done isn't always the same, unfortunately. Thieves could never get cooldowns in their skills, as that would utterly destroy the basic design of thief weapons. But ammo still allows using the weapon skills repeatedly like before ammo, but puts a stop on spam that allows both repetitive gimmicks and falling into repetitive traps, while also leaving more initiative to other skills, and in turns allows improving the skills themselves as they no longer have to be limited by how much initiative a person can put in a single skill.

At a ini of 6 spamming sb5 uses all ur resources very fast so 3 sb5 is all that's possible that is if u wait few sec after the second shot to get the ini needed for the 3rd shot. Thief cant spam anything for long even with preparedness

> @"melandru.3876" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"melandru.3876" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > @"melandru.3876" said:

> > > > > > @"DragonSlayer.1087" said:

> > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said:

> > > > > > > > @"DragonSlayer.1087" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"MoonHeaven.2430" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"DragonSlayer.1087" said:

> > > > > > > > > > Make skill 3 a 1 1/2s channeled block.

> > > > > > > > > > Make skill 4 a “withdraw” style evade but leaves a trail of dust that blinds foes.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > So from what I have seen of the Elite specs fighting style, it resembles a Martial arts style staff in real life. That said I disagree with a block as a staff does not block attacks from weapons as much as parries or deflects them. I agree we need something defensive in the skill set, perhaps a spinning staff that deflects attacks, if successful the staff skill changes to an activatable skill that delivers a counterblow to the melee ranged opponent, ranged opponents are harder to deflect. ranged attacks should have a 50/50 chance of deflection.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I love using a staff but I wish it had more traits of an actual martial arts staff that it is based off, dodging, parrying and counterattacking instead of just its heavy attacks.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I’m not opposed to the Parry/Counterattack. I rather it’s automatic counter attack once it blocks (rather than an activated one like bandits defense), similar to spear skills from both Warrior and Thief.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Btw, revenant has a staff channeled block. so...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > warrior has a rifle knockback

> > > > > > > hurry also ask for one on thief

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > /s

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > why do people allways go "but this class also has it!"

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > isn't the point of different classes to play different and feel unique, so why try to make them all feel the same?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Because ANET keeps pushing for staff DD but doesn’t really give them proper tools to sustain.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And yes. I want knockback on my DE rifle.

> > > > > > and cookies

> > > > > > and muffins

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > i mean...

> > > > >

> > > > > you have an evade on staff 3

> > > > > you have an evade on staff 5

> > > > > you have 3 dodges compared to 2

> > > > >

> > > > > blind on staff 4

> > > > > weakness on staff 2

> > > > >

> > > > > punnishing strikes has a build in reflect (lol??? reflect in auto attack chain???)

> > > > >

> > > > > that is pretty much everything to shut down physical-damage classes with or evades, or blind, or weakness, or reflects

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > if you want to turn staff from a dps weapon (which on top of all that, staff still is see pve meta) to a utility weapon like said rev, then you'd need to shave in alot of the damage

> > > > > i'm not sure if pve thiefs would like such staff overhaul, and redesigning a full weapon is still different then splitting 1 skill for pvp balance

> > > >

> > > > Problem is u can name all the block and evades which seems like alot and that it would be enough but the reality is with the cost of ini for staff invades and endurance cost on evades u run out fast and most times classes out sustain ur dps and if they connect 2 hits on u ur in downstate. Even with all evades available sustain on thief isn't enough these days to be a viable dueler.

> > >

> > > but, thief isn't a duelist ^^

> > > thief is a decapper /+1'er

> > >

> > >

> > > sacrifice your mobility, and i'll approve for better sustain

> >

> > I kno man but I was just saying if the dev's are pushing staff into more of a close range brawler which I think is what the swipe change was soposed to signify though no one can be sure of what arenanet thinking or if they even are lol

>

> obviously staff is close range, else they would have 450-900 range, no?

>

> the issue is staff is overshadowed by other (core) weapons d/p or s/d

> either staff needs a buff, or the other sets a nerf

>

>

Yeah losing all the range on steal and the trait changes kinda makes me think they want staff to be thiefs 1v1 oriented build but in reality the staff buffs were bit of a net nerf for dueling and really hit DD d/P hard. I donno I think they tried but just wasn't thought out enough or far enough. I'd even be ok with bit less mobility if it meant some staying power within the fights.

> @"melandru.3876" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"melandru.3876" said:

> > > > @"DragonSlayer.1087" said:

> > > > > @"melandru.3876" said:

> > > > > > @"DragonSlayer.1087" said:

> > > > > > > @"MoonHeaven.2430" said:

> > > > > > > > @"DragonSlayer.1087" said:

> > > > > > > > Make skill 3 a 1 1/2s channeled block.

> > > > > > > > Make skill 4 a “withdraw” style evade but leaves a trail of dust that blinds foes.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So from what I have seen of the Elite specs fighting style, it resembles a Martial arts style staff in real life. That said I disagree with a block as a staff does not block attacks from weapons as much as parries or deflects them. I agree we need something defensive in the skill set, perhaps a spinning staff that deflects attacks, if successful the staff skill changes to an activatable skill that delivers a counterblow to the melee ranged opponent, ranged opponents are harder to deflect. ranged attacks should have a 50/50 chance of deflection.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I love using a staff but I wish it had more traits of an actual martial arts staff that it is based off, dodging, parrying and counterattacking instead of just its heavy attacks.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I’m not opposed to the Parry/Counterattack. I rather it’s automatic counter attack once it blocks (rather than an activated one like bandits defense), similar to spear skills from both Warrior and Thief.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Btw, revenant has a staff channeled block. so...

> > > > >

> > > > > warrior has a rifle knockback

> > > > > hurry also ask for one on thief

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > /s

> > > > >

> > > > > why do people allways go "but this class also has it!"

> > > > >

> > > > > isn't the point of different classes to play different and feel unique, so why try to make them all feel the same?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Because ANET keeps pushing for staff DD but doesn’t really give them proper tools to sustain.

> > > >

> > > > And yes. I want knockback on my DE rifle.

> > > > and cookies

> > > > and muffins

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > i mean...

> > >

> > > you have an evade on staff 3

> > > you have an evade on staff 5

> > > you have 3 dodges compared to 2

> > >

> > > blind on staff 4

> > > weakness on staff 2

> > >

> > > punnishing strikes has a build in reflect (lol??? reflect in auto attack chain???)

> > >

> > > that is pretty much everything to shut down physical-damage classes with or evades, or blind, or weakness, or reflects

> > >

> > >

> > > if you want to turn staff from a dps weapon (which on top of all that, staff still is see pve meta) to a utility weapon like said rev, then you'd need to shave in alot of the damage

> > > i'm not sure if pve thiefs would like such staff overhaul, and redesigning a full weapon is still different then splitting 1 skill for pvp balance

> >

> > Problem is u can name all the block and evades which seems like alot and that it would be enough but the reality is with the cost of ini for staff invades and endurance cost on evades u run out fast and most times classes out sustain ur dps and if they connect 2 hits on u ur in downstate. Even with all evades available sustain on thief isn't enough these days to be a viable dueler.

>

> but, thief isn't a duelist ^^

> thief is a decapper /+1'er

>

>

> sacrifice your mobility, and i'll approve for better sustain

I kno man but I was just saying if the dev's are pushing staff into more of a close range brawler which I think is what the swipe change was soposed to signify though no one can be sure of what arenanet thinking or if they even are lol

> @"melandru.3876" said:

> > @"DragonSlayer.1087" said:

> > > @"melandru.3876" said:

> > > > @"DragonSlayer.1087" said:

> > > > > @"MoonHeaven.2430" said:

> > > > > > @"DragonSlayer.1087" said:

> > > > > > Make skill 3 a 1 1/2s channeled block.

> > > > > > Make skill 4 a “withdraw” style evade but leaves a trail of dust that blinds foes.

> > > > >

> > > > > So from what I have seen of the Elite specs fighting style, it resembles a Martial arts style staff in real life. That said I disagree with a block as a staff does not block attacks from weapons as much as parries or deflects them. I agree we need something defensive in the skill set, perhaps a spinning staff that deflects attacks, if successful the staff skill changes to an activatable skill that delivers a counterblow to the melee ranged opponent, ranged opponents are harder to deflect. ranged attacks should have a 50/50 chance of deflection.

> > > > >

> > > > > I love using a staff but I wish it had more traits of an actual martial arts staff that it is based off, dodging, parrying and counterattacking instead of just its heavy attacks.

> > > >

> > > > I’m not opposed to the Parry/Counterattack. I rather it’s automatic counter attack once it blocks (rather than an activated one like bandits defense), similar to spear skills from both Warrior and Thief.

> > > >

> > > > Btw, revenant has a staff channeled block. so...

> > >

> > > warrior has a rifle knockback

> > > hurry also ask for one on thief

> > >

> > >

> > > /s

> > >

> > > why do people allways go "but this class also has it!"

> > >

> > > isn't the point of different classes to play different and feel unique, so why try to make them all feel the same?

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Because ANET keeps pushing for staff DD but doesn’t really give them proper tools to sustain.

> >

> > And yes. I want knockback on my DE rifle.

> > and cookies

> > and muffins

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> i mean...

>

> you have an evade on staff 3

> you have an evade on staff 5

> you have 3 dodges compared to 2

>

> blind on staff 4

> weakness on staff 2

>

> punnishing strikes has a build in reflect (lol??? reflect in auto attack chain???)

>

> that is pretty much everything to shut down physical-damage classes with or evades, or blind, or weakness, or reflects

>

>

> if you want to turn staff from a dps weapon (which on top of all that, staff still is see pve meta) to a utility weapon like said rev, then you'd need to shave in alot of the damage

> i'm not sure if pve thiefs would like such staff overhaul, and redesigning a full weapon is still different then splitting 1 skill for pvp balance

Problem is u can name all the block and evades which seems like alot and that it would be enough but the reality is with the cost of ini for staff invades and endurance cost on evades u run out fast and most times classes out sustain ur dps and if they connect 2 hits on u ur in downstate. Even with all evades available sustain on thief isn't enough these days to be a viable dueler.

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"reddie.5861" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > Staff Master: This trait no longer grants a percentage damage increase based on endurance. Instead, it grants 120 power, and grants an additional 120 power when the thief wields a staff. The endurance gain per initiative point remains the same.

> > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swindler%27s_Equilibrium

> > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Silent_Scope

> > >

> > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forceful_Greatsword

> > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Axe_Mastery

> > > Every one of those gives passive stats. So why are we stuck with the kitten Fencer's Finesse - hit 10 times to receive stats for 6seconds?

> > >

> > >

> > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Companion%27s_Defense - Master Minor

> > > We're stuck with 1,5sec protection on mirage cloak ending. - Master Major.

> > >

> > >

> > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigorous_Precision

> > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Renewing_Stamina

> > > We're stuck with 3sec vigor on crit.

> > >

> > > Give more examples of how we're ANet's favourite child if you want.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > give me mirage evades and invuls on thief and u can have the 120 power or 240 power if u use staff id even give u an extra 200 power just cus its useless when u cant survive a kitten if ur out of dodges.

>

> I would kill for that, thief has a lot more evade uptime than mirage.

>

> Thieves who can perma evade want to trade to one of the least vigor uptime profession...

Perms evade lol with their infinite resources right?

I love this lmao. We have two of the most hated classes through out the community, both of which have been heavily nerfed, thief bit by bit for yrs and mesmer hard nerfed recently battling over each others skills and mechanics (alot being similar) when really neither should want either because their all nerf traps in the end. All while the scrappers,soulbeast,fb,scourge and holos laugh at us

Good stuff!

Lol u know the games balance team has done well when the sniper spec isn't mentioned much in a ranged spec for wvw thread.

> @"Ni In.6578" said:

> Let's just boil down what OP is trying to say:

>

> Every class should be the same. Each provides the exact same boons with the same duration. The only difference between the classes is how they hold their weapons. GG.

This is pretty much what most "this insert is OP " threads consist of unfortunately. All basically boils down to said class can do this and mine cant or this class version of this skill is better pls nerf. Instead of focusing on what their own class has as a whole and what can be done to improve upon it.

> @"Straegen.2938" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Players of other classes seem to be under the impression that these changes were a buff to DD

>

> Most of those people would be idiots that don't understand the class and how it plays.

Want a good read? Go to mesmer section and check out the arenets favorite child post if u want a laugh

> @"Straegen.2938" said:

> My problem isn't Repeater itself but how slow it is. The damage output for 6 init and nearly 2s of chained attack sucks. Unload is nearly as fast and a player ends up with might stacks and doesn't have to be in melee range.

>

> Course ANet has basically gutted Pistol since launch with nerf after nerf.

And.......

Sic em rapid fire exist lol

Unfortunately I dont realistically think thief will see any changes that would require any significant amount of work and focus from the dev's and certainly not in the form of meaningful buffs. As much as that sucks. They have probably already shifted thier focus on other classes regarding there trade off initiative their running right now.

Players of other classes seem to be under the impression that these changes were a buff to DD

Make thiefs stealth a cloak like the predator so it always has counter play. Thief and DE should get certain buffs while cloaked and have access to long durations of it so ur not spending 90 percent of ur play time stacking it,its annoying to do so as is and with stealth being like predator cloak and not true invisibility it wouldn't be broken. DD all stealth skills are changed from cloak to shadow barrier similar to scourge barrier but weaker due to having multiple ways to re apply promoting DD as a brawler and adding a active way to provide more sustain thru a fight. That seems cool to me lol u could blast urself a barrier with blinding powder and a leap

After seeing what they did to thief last patch I wouldn't honestly put it past the balance team to give more un deserved nerfs to ele's

Thief unload got nerfed while arenet obviously thinks sic em rapid fire is fine. Sounds about right for these dev's lol

> @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > @"Sylanna.1947" said:

> > When every single thief in pvp is running the same elite, it's time to do something about this ridiculous god-mode skill. And the fact that improv can instantly recharge it is just BS. I don't know how there aren't more complaints about it since it's been over-tuned for so long.. I guess there were bigger fish to fry?

>

> Because thiefs elites barely compare to other specs kits. And the pre buff dagger storm was basically a death sentence for the user.

I really wish players that keep thinking thief is OP would try running the spec and see how easy and often u get destroyed in a fight and how often some classes can actually catch u when trying to escape and stomp u,and not be full of it and just post saying they have tried thief and it was easy to get downs like seems to be the case more often than not.

I understand why a low sustain class has its duel pistol burst lowered in pvp because its promotes unhealthy play but why do rapid fire soulbeast shots exist from a spec that has what it has?lol I donno everything I this game seems off but great suggestions seems very thought out hopefully arenanet checks these out though I doubt it.

Now it only they had a trait giving them a whopping 17% rng to use skill again so we could also throw the ability to constantly spam it twice off one cooldown at will,along with our ability to infinitely skill spam due to having infinite ini and to top it off the infinite stealth and tele that thieves can do disregarding resource cost as seems to be said by most non thief players to try and defend their case that thiefs op lmao