Psycoprophet.8107

Cuz it's the arenet way,lower build diversity is one of the goals aperantly

> @"MrPhantasia.5924" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"MrPhantasia.5924" said:

> > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > > > unrivaled mobility.

> > > >

> > > > lol......LOL.......

> > > > # LOL

> > >

> > > Objectively true. If you look at weapon kits, Shortbow 5 easily outclasses every other professions weapon 5 skill in terms of just how much it swings games. It is objectively the strongest weapon skill in the game in terms of game impact. It's like old mesmer portal in terms of how OP Portal is over other utilities but in terms of weapon scale. I think once Shortbow 5 is addressed, maybe limiting it to 450 units, we can see thieves moved into a more fair role where they can be more consistent 1v1ers and team damage dealers.

> > >

> >

> > SB 5 is strong for sure and effective in a game mode like conquest but it's not OP in any way and suffers from drawbacks like 6 ini cost and no line of sight bugs and becomes less important in pve with mounts. SB skills 1-4 are objectively worse than other bow skills,sure thiefs learned to make best with what they got ie choking gas on downed opponents,pre cast clusters with steal(not with swipe lol) and cluster in fields etc all inch uses except maybe a low dps way to tag enemies and kilm clones due to auto ricochet lol. Sb as a whole is not a reason a class is OP or needs to be underpowered in the slightest.

>

> This is PVP MY DUDE who cares about mounts.

>

> If you put all the weapon skills side by side it is not possible to argue that Infiltrator's Arrow has singlehandedly won more conquest matches on it's own than any other weapon skill. That is objectively overpowered conpared to every other class weapon skill.

>

> Portal got rebalanced for being heads and shoulders above all other utilty skills and singlehandedly winning more games than any of them. It's time to give Infiltrator's Arrow the same treatment.

I meant sb5 in pve as stated in post. Also if a class success or role is dependent on one skill I'd say that speakers volumes as to how garbage the class is lol not how strong it is I'm sure theives would rather be doing somthing else other than sb5 to perform thier roll if they had anything else to offer,even rev is better +1 now so, or use their class skills as a whole to do their job ie like other classes,be way more fun no?

> @"MrPhantasia.5924" said:

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > unrivaled mobility.

> >

> > lol......LOL.......

> > # LOL

>

> Objectively true. If you look at weapon kits, Shortbow 5 easily outclasses every other professions weapon 5 skill in terms of just how much it swings games. It is objectively the strongest weapon skill in the game in terms of game impact. It's like old mesmer portal in terms of how OP Portal is over other utilities but in terms of weapon scale. I think once Shortbow 5 is addressed, maybe limiting it to 450 units, we can see thieves moved into a more fair role where they can be more consistent 1v1ers and team damage dealers.

>

SB 5 is strong for sure and effective in a game mode like conquest but it's not OP in any way and suffers from drawbacks like 6 ini cost and no line of sight bugs and becomes less important in pve with mounts. SB skills 1-4 are objectively worse than other bow skills,sure thiefs learned to make best with what they got ie choking gas on downed opponents,pre cast clusters with steal(not with swipe lol) and cluster in fields etc all inch uses except maybe a low dps way to tag enemies and kilm clones due to auto ricochet lol. Sb as a whole is not a reason a class is OP or needs to be underpowered in the slightest.

> @"Dave.6819" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Nice! I bought ESO last week after reading the patch, wasn't just this patch but but the culmination of past patches destroying thief plus maybe burnout since thief has garbage build diversity last few yrs. Been enjoying ESO alot but the pvp players are pretty hardcore compared to me so be a while before I'll attempt to join the pvp scene lol

>

> i think meta builds for cyrodiil require some kind of dlc btw. or atleast ESO plus. i've tried my 2 year old magsorc build seemed not so OP anymore. somethin changed with meta so google a little. if u've just started ESO oh hell yea it will take time for sure. but that's whats fun bout ESO. it isnt so casual. it gets quite hardcore but when u get there.. it feels rewrding. gl with ESO i love that game but i just cant get over their performance and latency issues in cyrodiil.

One thing that's a breath of fresh air is actually getting decent drops from rando enemies lol where as right now in gw2 feels like I need to fovevents etc to get anything other than garbage lol. I'm definitely gonna pve for a while to gry used to the mechanics etc. I wish thief in gw2 could crouch and hide from enemies and sneak up on them in that manner,robbing houses helps the role play as well lol. Hopefully they'll fix their perfomance issue in cryodill sometime so u can come back and enjoy it.

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> I used to savor teef tears, now all they do is kitten me off. look, d/p still has a spamable 900 range tele. shortbow is still unrivaled mobility. chances are if youre using steal as an engage youre playing teef wrong, and if youre already engaged you should be within 600 range anyway. I don't even play the class and I know that. talk about privilege lol...

Lmao it's great being able to tele often using all our ini so u literally cant use any weapon attacks,there is a trade off. Other classes can tele as well woohoo. Oh steal can interrupted and give a kitten stolen skill unless its mesmer woohoo.all that is a fair trade for no sustain and garbage dps.give me a break. privileged cuz one skill among mediocre skills on a whole weapon set(sb5) and can tele with a target to get few decent boons and gbage stolen skills :)

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > This is always been the problem with the Thief. Not only it is trading damage for survivability, it is also trading armor for health. 2800 armor still nothing since 11k is just 2-3 hits or 1 hit from 3 sources.

> >

> > Looking at my Necro/Scourge, I can get 3k armor with 20k health and 1500 condition damage.

> >

> > How exactly a Thief can compete against that?

> >

> > It's just sad that the Dev refused to address this. /smh

>

> Give the build a shot in SPVP, I don't know how it fairs in other modes.

>

> Unless you let them hit you with every big skill, it takes more than 2-3 hits

I run full maurader and 3 succesdfull hits from holo,gaurd,sb or warrior are death regardless what they are and the sustain buffs added to DD line do nothing and on top of that u have to hit ur target 3 times more than they hit u all while having a way less forgiving playstyle. Rogue character should be fragile fast and hit hard,their like that in every game and always create salt but that's how the class is supposed to be but over the yrs the balance team caved to whiners and now it's a fast,low sustain class that on average skills/auto's do less damage than higher sustain classes lmao it's a joke!

Thieves need more general dps.they need to be able to fight and sustain in a fight without resorting to cheese one shot one trick builds.that wont happen if ur pistol,sword,dagger autos hit less than a warriors,holo,soulbeast etc autos.the rest of the 2-5 weapon skills need a significant buff in dps that actually makes it possible for a theif to make a dent in the sustain that classes have now and do not fast enough that with its garbage sustain it stands a chance.as it stands u have to hit most classes 2 or 3 times more than they have to hit u and if their skills hits it's far more punishing to u the balance is way out of whack in this game. A rogue character usually cant take a hit but is fast and hits hard and always breeds salt in every game but it's designed like that for a reason.arenanet caved and nerfed theif due to butt hurt cry babies now the class is deformed into a fast,fragile class that hits for less dps than heavier hitting more sustainable classes which is completely ridiculous.arenet nerfed thief in so many ways but kept the mbs etc what it was to promote DE and that is no way to give a class dps. One trick builds like that will always be a crutch until thief can fight without them.course if arenanet removes the dps from bs than thief could be just a decapper I guess lol.theres a reason it's a +1 class and it's not because it's for high dps and sustain lmao.

People will still keep playing it and its gonna stay as it is except slight of hand fix whenever that comes. If the past is repeated as usually is classes will slowly get more powercrept while thief gets more gutted due to the general dislike the community and aperantly the development team have for the class.its a shame.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > While I still don't think that daredevil needed this change, I must say that you "main" thiefs should get over it and just do a minor change to your rotation as daredevil. Unlike _steal_, _Swipe_ just isn't a gap closer, however used properly in fight it's very powerfull. It give the daredevil a lot more CC pressure in melee fight.

> >

> > I dont really play the class anymore since last few months,gues just hoped it be improved in patch and am disappointed but ur right its point less to complain really.

>

> My point is more that people should first try to adapt and get a feel for it instead of just blindly looking at the mobility nerf. Yes, it's a mobility nerf but it's also a control buff which promote a different playstyle and open some very interesting possibilities. Focusing blindly on what is lost is definitely the wrong way to look at the change and unfortunately it's what the vocal thief community does. Thiefs rotations aren't that complicated moving the _swipe_ from the opener spot to a strategic CC spot is easy.

I get that for sure. I tried for about an hr and half last night and didnt notice neither better dps or sustain,just that steal is worse so as a whole DD feels like it's a worse brawler than it was

> @"Skugga.5298" said:

> I used to main a thief,... now it's not even worth playing anymore. Made a test build with 2.4k toughness and died in 2 warrior skills,.. lol

Yeah I noticed quick the trait changes in the DD line are such low coefficients that they literally change nothing on the dps or sustain department. Given where its sustain/dps was at it needed far more but might as well forget about it as the way this community is ull have people posting how DD is super tanky now or that it hits to hard lmao. The combination of the class being largely disliked by all but thief players and the balance teams knowing or unknowing constant beating the put on the class itl never get out of the garbage hole.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> While I still don't think that daredevil needed this change, I must say that you "main" thiefs should get over it and just do a minor change to your rotation as daredevil. Unlike _steal_, _Swipe_ just isn't a gap closer, however used properly in fight it's very powerfull. It give the daredevil a lot more CC pressure in melee fight.

I dont really play the class anymore since last few months,gues just hoped it be improved in patch and am disappointed but ur right its point less to complain really.

Do u really want arenanet balance team to focus on eli? Think hard on what ur saying.ur basically asking them to kill the class.

I burst harder these days on my rev,holo,guard(RI hurt) and soulbeast all while hitting harder with my standard skills and having far more sustain in fight with more traited sustain,sustain from skill and utility on all of them and I dont even play them as much. Thiefs overall burst capabilities in correlation with its unforgiving playstyle (sustain thru dodging) if u miss a dodge u done is far behind the powercrept classes of today. Wouldn't be so bad if arenanet nerfed half the classes hard in dps and sustain but that isn't gonna ever happen.

> @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > > @"reddie.5861" said:

> > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > > @"Moirg.7560" said:

> > > > > > I get you guys want there to be 'tradeoffs' in e specs but the 50% CD and more importantly, 600 range nerf to steal was completely unnecessary.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Daredevil dp burst is pmuch gutted as result.

> > > > >

> > > > > U really shoulda posted in the thief forum.most of the community dislikes thief as a class and want it deleted/gutted. Ull just get replies like the nerf wasn't enough and that the class is still a op class with infinite stealth,infinite teleports,infinite ini to infinitely spam skills that all one shot any class and cant be hit due to infinite dodges that have no punishable evade frames. Did I get it right?

> > > >

> > > > no that sounds like a mirage.

> > > >

> > > > thief is like has 3 dodges then is a 1 shot for any class

> > > > hits like a wet noodle

> > > > has zero sustain cant fight any1 equally "skilled" in a 1v1

> > > > is a kitten character that will always pick on you while ur fighting 1v1 with some1 else.

> > > >

> > > > all in all thief pretty kitten good at nothing :D

> > >

> > > Yeah I will have to disagree.

> > >

> > > hits like a wet noodle? It has some of the highest burst damage

> > > 0 sustain? If you dont utilize the mobility offered by the class then yes (and also means you need to learn to play it). It does have sustain.

> > > The last part is natural for any class that can hot fast and hard...its not exclusive to DrD

> >

> >.and yea it's easy for a non thief player to say thiefs sustains great cuz u just have to avoid every hit with its great mobility lmao.

>

> Man, people assume too much in these forums when trying to be smart and make points. When did I say (or not say) that I am a "non thief player"?

>

> FYI, I used to main thief for a couple years and currently co main it.

>

> What else ya got kid?

Yeah used to is main worf-kid? Lol

Clueless players get MBS from a thief build that is solely built for that one attack(cheesey but it's only attack that hitshard so) and literally cant do anything else effectively and has sacrificed everything for that one attack(boring one trick) and go around thinking thiefs a powerhouse lmao

> @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > @"reddie.5861" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > @"Moirg.7560" said:

> > > > I get you guys want there to be 'tradeoffs' in e specs but the 50% CD and more importantly, 600 range nerf to steal was completely unnecessary.

> > > >

> > > > Daredevil dp burst is pmuch gutted as result.

> > >

> > > U really shoulda posted in the thief forum.most of the community dislikes thief as a class and want it deleted/gutted. Ull just get replies like the nerf wasn't enough and that the class is still a op class with infinite stealth,infinite teleports,infinite ini to infinitely spam skills that all one shot any class and cant be hit due to infinite dodges that have no punishable evade frames. Did I get it right?

> >

> > no that sounds like a mirage.

> >

> > thief is like has 3 dodges then is a 1 shot for any class

> > hits like a wet noodle

> > has zero sustain cant fight any1 equally "skilled" in a 1v1

> > is a kitten character that will always pick on you while ur fighting 1v1 with some1 else.

> >

> > all in all thief pretty kitten good at nothing :D

>

> Yeah I will have to disagree.

>

> hits like a wet noodle? It has some of the highest burst damage

> 0 sustain? If you dont utilize the mobility offered by the class then yes (and also means you need to learn to play it). It does have sustain.

> The last part is natural for any class that can hot fast and hard...its not exclusive to DrD

Lmao at this^ burst no it really doesn't.mbs requiring enough stealth to position and doesnt even proc reliably. And than other scenario a class stands there while u vault spam on it all while not using any dodges,blocks etc lol. All dagger hits aside from bs are garbage, heartseeker is okish if enemies low health,sword-wet noodle dps,bow is utility but wet noodle,riffle burst is ok if rest of build sucks.u can literally go ham on classes with thief using dagger or sword and if ur not bs their laughing.and yea it's easy for a non thief player to say thiefs sustains great cuz u just have to avoid every hit with its great mobility lmao. Just like a mesmer should lose all blocks and teleports because it can make clones and that should be enough sustain,no?

Yup. Good job dev's!

Just delete class and rework. I think it's gotten to that point dev's

Just delete the class and rework it from ground up.

Yeah I didnt mention the damage mitigation and useless healing values that amount to zero noticeable difference in a fight with damage creep of today in conjunction to thiefs already garbage sustain lmao.they may as well remove the traits as I'd make no difference

> @"reddie.5861" said:

> well warrior nowadays can run like a idiot and hit like a thief used to do back in core when every1 dmg was still normal :D.

>

> tbh i just cant drop my thief no matter how much i try play warrior i always miss my thief :( but yes thief nowadays is like playing a naked character u deal normal dmg but u take a kitten load of dmg cus crits from people nowadays feel like backstabs back in core days.

This^ and I dont understand how arena net doesnt see this and I get to dislike a class but for people in the community to actually think thief is OP and not underperforming blows my mind. I get what ur saying as I left for few other classes but thief is what I've always known playstyle wise so I go back than get frustrated fast and just log out lol

> @"Moirg.7560" said:

> I get you guys want there to be 'tradeoffs' in e specs but the 50% CD and more importantly, 600 range nerf to steal was completely unnecessary.

>

> Daredevil dp burst is pmuch gutted as result.

U really shoulda posted in the thief forum.most of the community dislikes thief as a class and want it deleted/gutted. Ull just get replies like the nerf wasn't enough and that the class is still a op class with infinite stealth,infinite teleports,infinite ini to infinitely spam skills that all one shot any class and cant be hit due to infinite dodges that have no punishable evade frames. Did I get it right?

That be a buff for thief, good luck

Thief needs a dps buff to most its weapon skills if it Hope's to be viable in any fights in today iteration of the game given its low in fight sustain. if one shot one trick pony builds are to be avoided thief needs other viable options. as it stands it's most viable way to get downs

I'd find thief a cool stealth assassin if it had a skill like gyro that pulsed stealth 12-15 seconds total that followed u even if it didnt apply to aly's so I could be visible but when get in position close enough pop it than attack from stealth without having to jump 3 times thru field using all ini than pop invisibility utility than if have enough ini jump again however many times ini allows me to than if enemy moves maybe pop another invisibility utity if spotted than jump another 3 times through field or blast with sb5 eyc is annoying to upkeep stealth or to stack a useful amount.stealth gyro be alot less anoying lol just personal opinion