Psycoprophet.8107

> @"Milady.1593" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > You forgot to mention: "It takes as much damage as it deals and gets countered by anything that LOSes and Teleports" in your description.

> >

> > Yes so much this, it's crazy all the theives out dueling rangers lmao

>

> And one type of thieves can melt spellbreaker down regardless a lot of resistance, another types of thieves just flee and hide, laugh at warrior's so-called mobility.

Right! Lol got the running part right tho.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> You forgot to mention: "It takes as much damage as it deals and gets countered by anything that LOSes and Teleports" in your description.

Yes so much this, it's crazy all the theives out dueling rangers lmao

> @"Kaiser.9873" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > @"Kaiser.9873" said:

> > > > > Hmmm, Scourge this, Scourge that, but no mention of the fact that without strong support a Scourge is meat for the grinder. No toning down 12K Drop the Hammer? 10K CoR? Scourge been hammered every patch, and yet let's go ahead and keep cutting.

> > > > >

> > > > > You really want to nuke Scourge? Make them choose whether they want ranged shades, or self-centered shades.

> > > >

> > > > Lmao a rev hammer is trivial compared to a scourges impact in a zerg.sure its effective in a zerg but not even close to the same level as scourge.no zerg lives or dies by rev hammers and rev hammers aren't responsible for the whole playstyles that zergs follow now,as a matter of fact rev hammer is widely used and effective as a way to try and combat the scourge spamming as it allows u to hit from ranged and not get instant dead by the condi aoe puke. I wonder how popular rev hammer would be if scourges didnt oppress zergs into ranged battles? I certainly wouldn't be using hammer if zergs were melee oriented.Also them needing support doesnt change anything.scourge isn't OP in other modes but its mechanic is obsurd OP because the way wvw is and the fact there will always be supports within the zergs.

> > >

> > > You have 0 idea about zerging. It is pretty obvious from the "rev hammer is trivial compared to scourge in zergs".

> >

> > No I zerg all the time and I've zerged on both many many times I'm just not biased. A group of scourges are far more effective than revs and I dont see revs dictating how zergs fight nor cutting off whole sides of structures so defenders cant attack the attackers nor filling a downed entrance into a structure with endless death carpets. I stated revs are definitely very effective but trivial in comparison and I stand by that

>

> This statement is ridiculous. 2, just 2, Drop the Hammers in an area, and the opfor in that area are dead. You can survive 2 shades in an area pretty easily. Scourge excel in area denial, moving the fight around, and doing steady damage, but nothing beats a concentrated rev spike. Top damage? Yeah that's likely going to go to a Scourge simply due to the fact that they are hitting more players. Top spike, which is what kills players, is going to hammer revs.

Lol yeah u saying anything's ridiculous than saying a hammer drop means instant downs, I'm on zerker everything built for dps and my hammer doesnt one shot anyone but already half dead enemies lmao i hit people with it and hammer 2 and their usually still kicking with today's sustain and 2 hammers? Who stands in the way of one let alone two hammers lmao u can argue all u want yeah hammers are effective sure and deadly- no where close to groups of scourge stacking aoe's everywhere. Funny how when people discuss things regarding wvw balance hammer rev barely comes up,u kno what always does? Scourge/fb and ofcourse rev outspikes scourge that's not even a question but revs burst doesnt effect wvw anywhere close to how scourge condi aoe stacking does.

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> > @"AsiraasiB.7165" said:

> > Do what i did make a class u hate.. I use to hate mesmer because I couldn't understand how they get all these clones and which to attack, ignore etc. Now I have 2 mesmers and laugh/look foward to facing theives on mesmer. At the sametime, that helped me improve so much vs mesmer it's meme.

> > Stop crying and make a thief ...

>

> Yeah I dit that during HoT with unhindered combatant. Was pretty fun in WvW to never die, having perma swiftness and so on. Was also pretty fun in PvP having way more easy suvivability than the old chronocondi meta thanks to mobility. Recently I did some duels to see, the damage output was just way more frequent and easier to land than on a power mes/mirage/chrono.

> So yeah if you want to go off topic, I look at mesmer as long as you want but thief was always THE best mobility class in this game. And mobility mean overall survival, +1 oportunities and cap/decap in PvP. And in 1v1 thieves always counter mesmers power builds.

>

> So considering the advantages disadvantages concept, I don't care having thief with high mobility and bad duellist or good duellist with average mobility but conversely having thief with high mobility plus having hudge advantages over other +1 specs who have less good mobility is conceptually weird.

>

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Lol so thief steal is OP compared to other boon generating skills? I've read it all now lmao it's literally one of the worst. Look at soulbeast,guard,rev,engi list goes on way better self and party boon generating skills and their applications cant be evaded like steal. Maybe if boons were applied whether steal hits or not.

>

> I didn't mind thief having boons builds if they have to build for it.

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>

They do! Trickery line gives best steal boons without it what does steal do? Give u 80% useless skills lol

> @"gavyne.6847" said:

> People hate scourges because they corrupt people's precious boons. Many classes live and die by their boons. With their boons up, their sustain is insane, dps is high, and they're nearly unstoppable during pushes. Ever tried to fight a good guild group without enough corrupts? You aren't going to win against them too often as they'll just w key into you and grind on you while sustaining whatever you throw at them. Hence the scourge hate. There's a reason why scourge's current meta is to maximize on corrupt boons rather than pure power. I'm willing to bet if you watch your combat logs, you die less to scourges than you do to heralds and weavers.

>

> To call for scourge nerfs without calling to nerf other obvious over-tuned classes like firebrands, scrappers, heralds, etc.. is disingenuous and biased. As-is heralds and weavers top the dps charts in any engagement longer than 5 seconds (by a large margin), while firebrands and heralds have perm spots in raid groups. In fact in a guild group of 20'ish, if you have too many scourges and not enough firebrands & scrappers, you're going to have a hard time going up against a more well-rounded guild group with **less** scourges.

>

> So sure, nerf scourges. I don't think anybody asked for 10 target aoe's, that's on Anet. But if you want to nerf scourges, be sure to nerf the other meta classes as well.

Definitely

That's another problem. Theif sucks these days at fighting so was relegatedt to +1 due to having to grossly out play some one in a 1v1 or cheese backstabbing to win a fight so being fast but bad at fighting relegated it to a +1 role and due to its mobility with sb5 it's the best decapper so though that makes it useful in a game type like conquest if played right and that's what arenet see's,thiefs in high level pvp on winning teams so they think it's still performing good. By their standards theievescoulddo zero damage and be used only to decap and as long as its useful it's ok regardless to how boring a role or useless it's elsewhere in the game. Who thinks it's fun to just decap? Plus other classes are becoming better +1 classes lol. Perfect example arenetsaid their leaving necro as is in pvp due to strong player numbers. Not saying they need changes just that's not a reliable indicator.

Yeah most games that have different class architectypes usually have a fast agile glassy type that hits hard but cant take a hit and has to use active defenses not passive defenses to stay alive. Gw2 is the only game I've ever played that had a fast agile character that hit decent and ticked the other boxes that was changed due to complaints to a fast agile character that doesnt hit hard,cant take a hit and has to use active defenses to compete with classes that now are fast,agile,hit hard and have tons of passive defenses in comparison but thiefs bit more agile so it's ok lmao. While thief slowly got ruined all its strengths got scattered around to other classes.

Unfortunately throughout the years arwnanet neutered thief ability to engage in any real 1v1 with a equal skilled player without being at a disadvantage. They continually nerfed its dual capabilities and promoted high burst playstyles thru one trick cheese builds like perma stealth mbs etc and thru improper nerfs forced alot of theif players to rely on these cheese build/playstyles to be effective,as boring as it is to do same tactic over and over no one likes to continually die and not get downs. Than to make things worse the playstyle arenanet promoted thru thoughtless nerfs happen to be playstyles that promote the most salt continually increasing the nerfs theif crys of non thief players,its a viscous circle leading to today's iteration of thief. Yaaaay lol also to afdd thiefs not in a unviable spot balance wise really it's just other classes are so strong now with powercreep,classes have too much sustain, burst and mobility for the thief to stand a chance these days. It's like arenanet balanced thief with only one shot cheese high burst back stabs etc to deal with the powercrept classes while toning down its other methods to fight successfully all the while adding to other classes to deal with the high burst cheese builds than they start hitting the cheese thief builds leaving them with very little.its a mess lol

> @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > @"Kaiser.9873" said:

> > > > Hmmm, Scourge this, Scourge that, but no mention of the fact that without strong support a Scourge is meat for the grinder. No toning down 12K Drop the Hammer? 10K CoR? Scourge been hammered every patch, and yet let's go ahead and keep cutting.

> > > >

> > > > You really want to nuke Scourge? Make them choose whether they want ranged shades, or self-centered shades.

> > >

> > > Ofc rev need nerfs as well. But it only needs nerfs, while scourge need mechanic redesign

> >

> > Yes lmao rev needs nerfs.its core is the most unfinished class and needs its first espec to be considered complete,as when someone says rev herald is implied and its 2nd espec is widely considered worst in the game but herald has high burst like alot of classes so it needs nerfed and nothing else. Somtimes I hate that arenet doesnt seem like the listen to players and other times I'm so glad lol

>

> i think u dont understand what i was talking about. rev has high melee burst, its fine cuz its squishy, and will die fast if played poorly - high risk high reward. problem is with 5k autoattacks from hammer aa, 15k hammer 2 every 4 s, and just the same numbers from other hammer skills that has pretty dumb range. can u see a diffrence? i love rev, but hammer backline is one of dumbest things in this game, so plz stop crying that "rev is so bad, plz no nerf"

I love rev as well and never said they are bad. I implied that burst including hammer is all the class has which isn't alot considering where the games at right now. I'm for burst nerfs across all classes including rev, but rev needs work to bring it up in other areas whether burst nerf happenes or not. There should be more to a class than burst especially considering the 2 especs

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > @"Kaiser.9873" said:

> > > > > Hmmm, Scourge this, Scourge that, but no mention of the fact that without strong support a Scourge is meat for the grinder. No toning down 12K Drop the Hammer? 10K CoR? Scourge been hammered every patch, and yet let's go ahead and keep cutting.

> > > > >

> > > > > You really want to nuke Scourge? Make them choose whether they want ranged shades, or self-centered shades.

> > > >

> > > > Lmao a rev hammer is trivial compared to a scourges impact in a zerg.sure its effective in a zerg but not even close to the same level as scourge.no zerg lives or dies by rev hammers and rev hammers aren't responsible for the whole playstyles that zergs follow now,as a matter of fact rev hammer is widely used and effective as a way to try and combat the scourge spamming as it allows u to hit from ranged and not get instant dead by the condi aoe puke. I wonder how popular rev hammer would be if scourges didnt oppress zergs into ranged battles? I certainly wouldn't be using hammer if zergs were melee oriented.Also them needing support doesnt change anything.scourge isn't OP in other modes but its mechanic is obsurd OP because the way wvw is and the fact there will always be supports within the zergs.

> > >

> > > You have 0 idea about zerging. It is pretty obvious from the "rev hammer is trivial compared to scourge in zergs".

> >

> > No I zerg all the time and I've zerged on both many many times I'm just not biased. A group of scourges are far more effective than revs and I dont see revs dictating how zergs fight nor cutting off whole sides of structures so defenders cant attack the attackers nor filling a downed entrance into a structure with endless death carpets. I stated revs are definitely very effective but trivial in comparison and I stand by that

>

> Revs counter scourges. I dont know how revs in YOUR servers play, but they certainly do a lot of somethings wrong if they dont pressure scourges constantly. Youre biased as far as scourges are concerned.

Was in no way inferring anything regarding how well revs fight against scourges.

> @"Woof.8246" said:

>

> Give him some likes , for the creativity :)

I like his channel, hes trying his best to keep thief alive against horrible odds lol

> @"cryorion.9532" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"cryorion.9532" said:

> > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > So thief (a roamer) has a certain mechanic in steal to keep a mesmer (another roamer) in check by countering it.

> > > >

> > > > Whats the problem?

> > > >

> > > > I fail to see how this is any difference to a mesmer having certain mechanics to counter ranged builds. If you're better than your enemy, you will win the fight on a mesmer or thief or whatever roamer regardless of what you meet. Consume plasma is as much of a crutch as anything the else the thief and the mesmer has to fight with.

> > >

> > > The problem is not about that thief has mechanics to counter mesmer, but rather that the mechanic itself is way overtuned when compared to other boon providing skills in the game. Imo, the duration of those boons is way overtuned, giving too much reward for too little effort. E.g. 3 second boons duration would make more sense.

> >

> > Lol so thief steal is OP compared to other boon generating skills? I've read it all now lmao it's literally one of the worst. Look at soulbeast,guard,rev,engi list goes on way better self and party boon generating skills and their applications cant be evaded like steal. Maybe if boons were applied whether steal hits or not.

>

> Well yes, other professions have overtuned boon generation, too. But this is about one skill that provides all boons and most of them have 10 second duration while the Steal has 30/26 sec CD.

> Personally, I would welcome big boon spam/convert/removal reduction across the game because currently, it is pretty disgusting.

That I agree with 100%

I agree arenet has destroyed the class and agree once u play thief for yrs it's hard to play anything else but thankfully atleast for me herald exist and tho I like the theme playstyle more on thief I find gw2 more enjoyable on rev due to how badly theif has been ruined. I dont blame u tho if herald didnt exist I'd have uninstalled gw2 aswell which is ok there's alot of great games out there to play instead.

> @"cryorion.9532" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > So thief (a roamer) has a certain mechanic in steal to keep a mesmer (another roamer) in check by countering it.

> >

> > Whats the problem?

> >

> > I fail to see how this is any difference to a mesmer having certain mechanics to counter ranged builds. If you're better than your enemy, you will win the fight on a mesmer or thief or whatever roamer regardless of what you meet. Consume plasma is as much of a crutch as anything the else the thief and the mesmer has to fight with.

>

> The problem is not about that thief has mechanics to counter mesmer, but rather that the mechanic itself is way overtuned when compared to other boon providing skills in the game. Imo, the duration of those boons is way overtuned, giving too much reward for too little effort. E.g. 3 second boons duration would make more sense.

Lol so thief steal is OP compared to other boon generating skills? I've read it all now lmao it's literally one of the worst. Look at soulbeast,guard,rev,engi list goes on way better self and party boon generating skills and their applications cant be evaded like steal. Maybe if boons were applied whether steal hits or not.

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> Thief: more stealth than mesmer? Check. Stealth on demand? Check. High dmg? Check. One shot capable? Check. More escapes/mobility than mesmer? Check. More ports than mesmer? Check.

> Poor thieves.

Wow the world u live in lmao. Ur right tho all thief players must just be so bad at the class for it to be widely known as the worst 1v1 spec and delegated to +1 roles and decap. I'm sure with it having more dps,mobility,ports etc it would surely have been considered one of the best dueling specs up there at the top with mesmers if thief players just l2p right? Or ur biased,exaggerating and wrong in ur opinion, hmm what's more likely

Poor poor mesmers I wonder if it's the class that gives itself such a bad rep?

Who knows?

> @"incisorr.9502" said:

> this is a joke

>

> arcane thievery is bad, normal people don't use it. It can be dodged. It has huge cooldown

>

> whirlwind/bulls charge have incredibly low cds and so does full counter, it's not comparable. Mirage has way less dodges than SB. SB restores stamina from strength traitline and it also has way higher vigor uptime if you play defense than mirage does and warrior has the most dodges in the game except a dodge-oriented thief build

>

> > You have two dodges, as well as vigor, stealth, detargeting, clones, blinds, blur, distortion and teleports. You have a big toolkit, learn to use it before you complain like a child on the forums and embarrass yourself.

>

> wow what's the point of listing mesmer kit?

>

> warrior has rampage, arcing slice, whirlwind, full counter, rush, healing signet OWO BIG ARGUMENT

>

> The reason why i mentioned whirlwind and full counter before that was because they are both defensive skills and they both contribute to a defensive rotation , the likes of which mirage doesn't have, except distortion or axe 3 but nobody uses axe any more because the weapon is completely horrible due to the last patch

>

> you talk about me ignoring arguments and then you don't present any arguments except horribly written aggressive post that makes no sense whatsoever to anyone that attempts to understand it

>

>

Arcane thievery is bad because it can be dodged? So u want it to be unavoidable by the opponent?sounds about right lol

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Kaiser.9873" said:

> > > Hmmm, Scourge this, Scourge that, but no mention of the fact that without strong support a Scourge is meat for the grinder. No toning down 12K Drop the Hammer? 10K CoR? Scourge been hammered every patch, and yet let's go ahead and keep cutting.

> > >

> > > You really want to nuke Scourge? Make them choose whether they want ranged shades, or self-centered shades.

> >

> > Lmao a rev hammer is trivial compared to a scourges impact in a zerg.sure its effective in a zerg but not even close to the same level as scourge.no zerg lives or dies by rev hammers and rev hammers aren't responsible for the whole playstyles that zergs follow now,as a matter of fact rev hammer is widely used and effective as a way to try and combat the scourge spamming as it allows u to hit from ranged and not get instant dead by the condi aoe puke. I wonder how popular rev hammer would be if scourges didnt oppress zergs into ranged battles? I certainly wouldn't be using hammer if zergs were melee oriented.Also them needing support doesnt change anything.scourge isn't OP in other modes but its mechanic is obsurd OP because the way wvw is and the fact there will always be supports within the zergs.

>

> You have 0 idea about zerging. It is pretty obvious from the "rev hammer is trivial compared to scourge in zergs".

No I zerg all the time and I've zerged on both many many times I'm just not biased. A group of scourges are far more effective than revs and I dont see revs dictating how zergs fight nor cutting off whole sides of structures so defenders cant attack the attackers nor filling a downed entrance into a structure with endless death carpets. I stated revs are definitely very effective but trivial in comparison and I stand by that

> @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > @"Kaiser.9873" said:

> > Hmmm, Scourge this, Scourge that, but no mention of the fact that without strong support a Scourge is meat for the grinder. No toning down 12K Drop the Hammer? 10K CoR? Scourge been hammered every patch, and yet let's go ahead and keep cutting.

> >

> > You really want to nuke Scourge? Make them choose whether they want ranged shades, or self-centered shades.

>

> Ofc rev need nerfs as well. But it only needs nerfs, while scourge need mechanic redesign

Yes lmao rev needs nerfs.its core is the most unfinished class and needs its first espec to be considered complete,as when someone says rev herald is implied and its 2nd espec is widely considered worst in the game but herald has high burst like alot of classes so it needs nerfed and nothing else. Somtimes I hate that arenet doesnt seem like the listen to players and other times I'm so glad lol

> @"Kaiser.9873" said:

> Hmmm, Scourge this, Scourge that, but no mention of the fact that without strong support a Scourge is meat for the grinder. No toning down 12K Drop the Hammer? 10K CoR? Scourge been hammered every patch, and yet let's go ahead and keep cutting.

>

> You really want to nuke Scourge? Make them choose whether they want ranged shades, or self-centered shades.

Lmao a rev hammer is trivial compared to a scourges impact in a zerg.sure its effective in a zerg but not even close to the same level as scourge.no zerg lives or dies by rev hammers and rev hammers aren't responsible for the whole playstyles that zergs follow now,as a matter of fact rev hammer is widely used and effective as a way to try and combat the scourge spamming as it allows u to hit from ranged and not get instant dead by the condi aoe puke. I wonder how popular rev hammer would be if scourges didnt oppress zergs into ranged battles? I certainly wouldn't be using hammer if zergs were melee oriented.Also them needing support doesnt change anything.scourge isn't OP in other modes but its mechanic is obsurd OP because the way wvw is and the fact there will always be supports within the zergs.

> @"dominik.9721" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"dominik.9721" said:

> > > > @"vyncius.6105" said:

> > > > revenants have no condi cleanse, thats biggest weakness of the class.

> > >

> > > False. As many times proven correctly, Rev hardcounters condi mirage while scourge dies meanwhile in cleave.

> >

> > Hmm I've always heard condi mirage counters rev as well due to garbage condi removal.i mean their condi removals so bad u gotta trait to clean one condi on legend swap.gues u can do another 1 cleanse on staff to

>

> False. Condi mirage is in fact a cyber bullied class while Rev can port through walls.

oh sry I thought u were being serious in ur posts, somtimes hard to tell lmao

> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > The fact is every traitline and description that's been said can apply to a ninja

>

> Not necessarily since the traitline and description are accurate at describing a Thief, not a ninja. There are similarities, but they are not the same.

They apply just as much to both really and any rogue like class but the pics are all clearly ninja's

> @"dominik.9721" said:

> > @"vyncius.6105" said:

> > revenants have no condi cleanse, thats biggest weakness of the class.

>

> False. As many times proven correctly, Rev hardcounters condi mirage while scourge dies meanwhile in cleave.

Hmm I've always heard condi mirage counters rev as well due to garbage condi removal.i mean their condi removals so bad u gotta trait to clean one condi on legend swap.gues u can do another 1 cleanse on staff to

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > A little dishonest since scourge has been gutted by patches.

> > >

> > > Back when deathly chill trailblazer reapers were trashing WvW I made a joke about making marks pulse. Enter left stage, Shades. I apologise.

> > >

> > > Necro staff and the shade mechanic need to be rewritten to not be on-point ranged lingering-aoe spamming bots.

> >

> > Scourge may not be OP everywhere else but they are obsurd in wvw and need toned down aoe spam wise very badly.

>

> Imo i think the issue is how the game is overloaded with aoe spambility, not scourge alone, scourge is more noticeable due the amount or bnlinking circles we have.

>

> Its an overall design issue, not scourge alone.

I agree for sure. I dont think scourge in itself is really OP it's just they way scourges mechanics work in wvw make it very oppressive in the mode as know class alone should impact and or influence the playstyle of a whole pvp mode the way scourge does in wvw. I'm only speaking of wvw as scourge isn't really an issue in other modes.

Just remove warclaw from wvw and make it more inline with pve mounts and leave it in pve. It was nice thought to help out slower classes but it has no place in a open world pvp same as why it wouldn't in conquest even if maps were bigger. It creates far more problem than it fixed.

> @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> An interesting thing to note is that when going dps, unlike other dps classes, ranger has no teleports. Ranger excels at range, yeah. Longbow is pretty easy. But the thing is, all of rangers' dmg can be mitigated by line of sight. The other meta dps, rev, thief, mes can all teleport and continue to hit you, or port into melee range where these classes have much more dmg and tools to stay in the fray (or port in and out).

Literally tele is only thing thief has over ranger where as ranger can have higher dps,sustain,a pet to dps and rng knock down, do higher dps from distance,with bird hadvery high mobility all without having to dedicate itself to a one trick build like backstab or rifle De. Yea slb can go full dps and be somewhat glassy.plus ranger poops a good amount of self bond that are incredibly useful.thiefs kit doesnt compare,almost dont to slb right now