Psycoprophet.8107

I along with alot of others suggest things which in these forums only serve as fuel for people to disagree with lol and didnt feel like a discussion was only pointing out that their a problem and did not state I had the ideal solution. Saying that not allowing aoe's to stack in wvw from multiple scourges could be an option. Increasing their effectiveness a bit but increasing cd on them by a lot may help as well as not stacking might have them serving as periodic bombs instead of a constant death aoe carpet surrounding the whole zerg.

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Deimos.4263" said:

> > The biggest problem with the walls is that the battlements don't really work *anything* like real-world battlements. Standing on them is a death sentence, whereas standing right under them *should* be a death sentence. Where are the machicolations? Why is there nothing shielding defenders standing on these walls?

>

> Will we in turn get ladders so we can just climb over the walls?

>

> Thats realistic after all. Hell you could just toss a rope and climb up. Its not like they are particularly tall. Some you can probably parkour up.

>

> Haha wait what am I even saying. In universe realism dictates that we should be able to teleport up the walls. Theres no anti-teleport tech built in to them after all, its just plain walls. Its entirely unrealistic that a mesmer cant get to the lordroom in 30s.

Ladders probably will happen.than scourges will perma stack around the top of the wall that the ladders on while the whole zerg climbs up to take over the structure easy peasy.

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > > > If Consume Plasma is so useless, why is it so overused? Why use it if it's not worth it?

> > > > >

> > > > > It's not useless and gives some decent boons and as a thief u take what u can get these days to battle powercreep so why not use it when u can? Majority of steal skills are a complete joke and is just a bu product of stealing which due to a few traits make the act more useful than the reward unfortunately

> > > >

> > > > Yeah all boons in the game, x2, on a <20 second cooldown. "Decent".

> > >

> > > Yeah a class that's not really a great self or party boon giver can give itself the the full set of boons only by stealing from one specific class if it is successful whith its steal to begin with is so OP lol c'mon. I like mesmer but lately with all the posts popping up about specific things that are strong or useful against them stating their OP. U guys do realize there is going to be some skill or traits etc that will be useful against mirages right,as there is for every class. It's like u guys expect to either be on equal ground or at an advantage against every spec,if not BAM there's a new thread stating its OP or unfair to mirages lmao ×2 only applies if running improv which alot dont so...

> >

> > I don't even play mirage, esp not condi.

>

Yet ur in almost every thread if seen regarding the class. Sry I'll say mesmer so it covers the specific spec u play

> @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > > If Consume Plasma is so useless, why is it so overused? Why use it if it's not worth it?

> > > >

> > > > It's not useless and gives some decent boons and as a thief u take what u can get these days to battle powercreep so why not use it when u can? Majority of steal skills are a complete joke and is just a bu product of stealing which due to a few traits make the act more useful than the reward unfortunately

> > >

> > > Yeah all boons in the game, x2, on a <20 second cooldown. "Decent".

> >

> > Yeah a class that's not really a great self or party boon giver can give itself the the full set of boons only by stealing from one specific class if it is successful whith its steal to begin with is so OP lol c'mon. I like mesmer but lately with all the posts popping up about specific things that are strong or useful against them stating their OP. U guys do realize there is going to be some skill or traits etc that will be useful against mirages right,as there is for every class. It's like u guys expect to either be on equal ground or at an advantage against every spec,if not BAM there's a new thread stating its OP or unfair to mirages lmao ×2 only applies if running improv which alot dont so...

>

> I don't even play mirage, esp not condi.

I'm sry lol mesmer or chrono still same class

> @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > If Consume Plasma is so useless, why is it so overused? Why use it if it's not worth it?

> >

> > It's not useless and gives some decent boons and as a thief u take what u can get these days to battle powercreep so why not use it when u can? Majority of steal skills are a complete joke and is just a bu product of stealing which due to a few traits make the act more useful than the reward unfortunately

>

> Yeah all boons in the game, x2, on a <20 second cooldown. "Decent".

Yeah a class that's not really a great self or party boon giver can give itself the the full set of boons only by stealing from one specific class if it is successful whith its steal to begin with is so OP lol c'mon. I like mesmer but lately with all the posts popping up about specific things that are strong or useful against them stating their OP. U guys do realize there is going to be some skill or traits etc that will be useful against mesmers right,as there is for every class. It's like u guys expect to either be on equal ground or at an advantage against every spec,if not BAM there's a new thread stating its OP or unfair to mesmers lmao ×2 only applies if running improv which alot dont so...

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > A little dishonest since scourge has been gutted by patches.

> > >

> > > Back when deathly chill trailblazer reapers were trashing WvW I made a joke about making marks pulse. Enter left stage, Shades. I apologise.

> > >

> > > Necro staff and the shade mechanic need to be rewritten to not be on-point ranged lingering-aoe spamming bots.

> >

> > Scourge may not be OP everywhere else but they are obsurd in wvw and need toned down aoe spam wise very badly.

>

> Hmmm. "toned down badly". What would you suggest?

Well scourges literally single handedly dictates the playstyle(pirate ship) we see in zergs in wvw,that alone points to a problem. Scourge aoe spam in zergs is obsurd. All zergs are not only surrounded by stacked aoe's from scourge but also always standing in them leading to any melee being g a death sentence other than popping invulnerability skills and jumping in and out. The class has far too much influence in zergs. Any defenders are made almost useless due to scourges doing the same on walls of structures their zerg is attacking blocking off essentially the whole side of the structure their attacking.its gotten ridiculous.

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > A little dishonest since scourge has been gutted by patches.

> > > >

> > > > Back when deathly chill trailblazer reapers were trashing WvW I made a joke about making marks pulse. Enter left stage, Shades. I apologise.

> > > >

> > > > Necro staff and the shade mechanic need to be rewritten to not be on-point ranged lingering-aoe spamming bots.

> > >

> > > Scourge may not be OP everywhere else but they are obsurd in wvw and need toned down aoe spam wise very badly.

> >

> > Hmmm. "toned down badly". What would you suggest?

> Make all marks CC and pull targets toward the center?

>

> That would tone them down very badly.

>

Lmao

> @"kodesh.2851" said:

> > All professions need the same build diversity. Soulbeasts and scrappers are overtuned, but there's only one profession that has been OP for over a year AND STILL has 3 builds in the meta.

>

> Necro? Yeah lets nerf it xD

In wvw scourge definitely needs adjustments

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> If Consume Plasma is so useless, why is it so overused? Why use it if it's not worth it?

It's not useless and gives some decent boons and as a thief u take what u can get these days to battle powercreep so why not use it when u can? Majority of steal skills are a complete joke and is just a buy product of stealing which due to a few traits make the act more useful than the reward unfortunately

Stupid question prob but I'm constantly seeing players jump vertically 3 times higher than I can on warclaw,how are they doing this?

Fix balance between classes and take steps needed to make pvp more competitive

> @"Swagg.9236" said:

> But seriously, tell me, what would Thief be in PvP without shortbow 5? The class has zero sustain during combat except while its teleports and evasion spam holds out, and its entire, low-risk rotation basically revolves around Steal being up. It constantly breaks from fights if its openers go poorly, and nobody can adequately punish it for running away except maybe another Thief. If the only thing that Thief could do was teleport to selected targets, how much more obvious would it be that the class is a mere, half-complete, flavor-based idea when it spends 75% of its time waiting around for CDs before teleporting through the ground, spamming a few buttons, and rolling the dice to see if it struck a target who couldn't just hard-counter with instant, panic CDs of its own? At least with Shortbow 5, if a Thief finds itself being worthless in a fight, it can just walk away and teleport to a point at which nobody is for a free node. This is an extremely passive playstyle, and it characterizes core Thief and Mesmer play; it's the most unhealthy, low-skill sort of paradigm to promote, and unfortunately it's worked its way into every other class in the game at this point (although, there wasn't much of a design foundation for this game to stop that encroachment).

Cant argue with that.sb 5 definitely carries the class nowadays.

> @"Kovu.7560" said:

> I was in a match the other day where we couldn't win a 3v2 to take a node.

> I was running power soulbeast, had a condi mirage and spellbreaker ally and we couldn't force a decap from a firebrand and scrapper. Their support tandem was pretty kitten solid. They could literally stand there and dual-tank. Good on them for synergizing so well, but deng my one wolf pack, sic 'em unblockable rapid fire, wh4 wombo combo was only tickling even the guardian.

>

> I'll admit I'm not an expert on how engineer plays, but holy heck was that some serious tanking.

>

> ~ Kovu

Lol yeah the other day I was in wvw right behind a scrapper unloading on him on my s/d thief, he didnt get away I ended up just running behind him continually attacking him and just ended up giving up after awhile as was clear wasn't gonna happen for me lol

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> A little dishonest since scourge has been gutted by patches.

>

> Back when deathly chill trailblazer reapers were trashing WvW I made a joke about making marks pulse. Enter left stage, Shades. I apologise.

>

> Necro staff and the shade mechanic need to be rewritten to not be on-point ranged lingering-aoe spamming bots.

Scourge may not be OP everywhere else but they are obsurd in wvw and need toned down aoe spam wise very badly.

Lol if somthing kills fast its op, if somthing doesnt die fast its op, man the balance team must love thier mov.they should just make every skill type etc hit for the same dps and make all classes exact copies of each other and be done with it lol

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> > Instant cast and evade spamming while attacking are the roots of many problems in all honesty.

> >

> > For example? Warrior wouldn't need automatic endure pain or balanced stance or 90 second rampage if kitten like this wasn't obnoxious to deal with. Bigger evil is always Mesmer though cause at least Thief can't manfight vs. cleave damage. A lot of passive traits would not be necessary if instant cast layering wasn't such BS.

> >

> > Thief manages to actually be balanced because they can't just LAYER evades when their frame is about to end, and has really low HP.

> >

> > The fact that people are complaining about Mirage still just proves that evade spam while being able to layer it with something is a problem.

> >

> > There will always be people defending it because they're unskilled garbage is the sad reality as well. It literally isn't skill shotting with 1200 range greandes after slick shoes nerf back in the day, it really isn't more skillbased than that.

> >

>

> Oh my day..such strong contradictions...blaming evade spamming as main root of balance problems and at the same time claiming that thief who can abuse evade spamming (sword builds or staff jumping monkey) and has builds full of insta cast ( headshot spamming back in the day - Steal -infiltrator strike and more ) **it's actually balanced**...people should proof reading their comments before posting them

>

> The game hasn't been skill based since September 2012 when they started buffing thief with heartseeker spam and mesmer clones with 2-3x more HP and signet making clones more durable..pls..pls....**thief players are the least allowed to talk about balance issues**, while not being at the centre of attention now, thieves are the very definition of unfun and unbalanced mechanic : can retreat at will when losing, engage at will etc etc....just one and half year ago wvw was swarmed with thieves and in 2014 we had double thieves teams after the sword evasion buff.

>

> Necro with his condi spam and thief one shotting anything without enough sustain....**you are the very reason why powercreep started in this game in the first kitten place**

Lmao wow its like were playing a different game.thief can spam heart seeker or any attack other than mbs and the opponent as long as it's not being attacked by ur ally can out sustain/heal the thief's damage while laughing than get two hits off to down thief and its gg. Sounds like ur not good at fighting theives lol alone theif is easy farming most times unless they run lmao again I hate thieves whaaaaa.they could do zero damage literally except for one high dps backstabbing and because they can port(alot of classes can or have alternatives) or can stealth(alot of classes can now) and have mobility(again powercrept across alot of classes) there will always people that get but hurt when killed in certain ways.its hilarious.

funny all the biased thief haters making ridiculous comments yet look how thief is in the poll lmao.poll is right thief's not weak and is strong if it was 2014 lol but is weak compared to the powercrept classes and is definitely behind the curve now with game progression. Soulbeast/holo are way to good at to many things,fb/scourge are way to op and oppressive in wvw,warrior has to much sustain with high burst etc and scrapper/ chronobunker have to much sustain.the classes need the nerf hammer to give them all a good smack.

I think the combination of range,dps thru modifiers and union providing unblockable attacks are the problem.unblickable skill in melee being in a pvp game itself can be question but an unblockable that can take more than 50% of it health in press of button with short cool down on rapid fire at 1500 or more is obsurd. skills given to ranger with the range it have should have been balanced better. Rapid fire for example should a had longer cd,damage low on all hits and last hit carries the most dps allowing more counterplay.stealth shouldn't have been added etc. Too many of rangers skills synergize together to take them into the OP range,synergize are great but need balanced around. Sic em needs to be reduced to 25% considering RI was to high for guard lol. Regardless unblockable at 1500 + range is kinda silly regardless of dps.

Its popular because they can stand on walls and take more than 50% of it hit points with click of a button if ur unaware of them or in a fight already, they can also send their pet after u from that crazy as well. It's a carry class and people are drawn to it?

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > > > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > > > @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > > > > My core staff ele build (2013):

> > > > > Attack: <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > > > Defense: <3

> > > > > Control: <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > > > Mobility: <3 <3 <3

> > > > > Evasion: <3 <3

> > > > >

> > > > > The exact same build in 2018 despite LUDICROUS powercreep:

> > > > > Attack: <3 <3 <3

> > > > > Defense: <3 <3

> > > > > Control: <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > > > Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > > > Evasion: <3 <3

> > > > > Revives: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > > > > > > http://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta

> > > > > > > 'It isn’t often that I’ll feel inclined to point the finger at a class or two in a massively multiplayer game and blame it for the woes of an entire game mode. While I certainly wouldn’t go that far here, I do believe the Thief and Mesmer and some of their mechanics are the cause of many problems in Guild Wars 2’s PvP'

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thief and Mesmer

> > > > > > > (all specializations included)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Attack- <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > > > > > Defense <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > > > > > Control <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > > > > > Evasion <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > > > > > Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ????????

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It's 2015 post by a guy who thinks Thieves run Berserker amulet and as an example of the _"massive burst dmg'_ posts a 4,6k backstab vs Light Armor target which is god.kitten **NOTHING** compared to what most of the power professions can do with much better frequency.

> > > > > > **Literally** the only thing in that post which was true is that Thief has access to more stealth than others. Thief was +1 even before 2015... wonder how is that since that guy makes it sound like such an ultimate 1v1 killer.

> > > > >

> > > > > You say all that, and yet Thief and Mesmer have the exact same sort of builds even now. There has been zero deviance from their core playstyles despite sometimes getting extra buttons

> > > >

> > > > So??

> > > > Thief having the very same build as it always had, has **absolutely nothing** to do with **anything** in that post.

> > > > That Thief still has D/P and S/D Build somehow confirms that clueless guy theory that Thief is a 1v1 God with best at everything even though there is no logical correlation?

> > >

> > > Two whole classes only have one play-style: playing super passive until one has enough resource or cooldowns to rotate through a PvE-tier DPS rotation saturated with teleports and protracted evasion periods. This play-style has survived all the way through the game's historical continuity, and has even been outright replicated and shoved into other classes. Just because Thief and core Mesmer might not populate the top rankings any more doesn't somehow mean that their shallow, low-effort play-style isn't yet the meta-shaping gravity well which siphons the IQ of all who participate in PvP. It's sort of like this one player who told me about how nobody should complain about conditions because his autoattack-centric Mesmer build doesn't get guaranteed kills with his strategy: *just because something is ineffective within the grand scheme of the GW2 PvP environment doesn't mean that it doesn't deserve to be scrutinized and criticized for being unhealthy for competition and skillful play.*

> > >

> > > The Thief D/P build is incredibly passive and flighty despite being able to inflict lethal damage with impunity due to teleports and stealth spam; the S/D build consistently negates any importance of positioning and timing by teleporting through walls at will and attacking while evading. Neither of these things encourage any sort of skillful play. They just encourage turtling as a response and rock-paper-scissors reactions to a class which engages combat in a manner similar to people what one might see in a Peer-to-Peer FPS server. It's complete silliness.

> > >

> > > Basically, the problem with Thief (and Mesmer) has always been that the user dies only because the user "messed up." There is almost zero reason that a Thief should ever die in any circumstance; it simply has too many means to escape or attack with impunity (even if said attacks don't necessarily result in a kill). Coupled with the fact that it can freely teleport across a map in a gamemode dominated by capturing stationary circles by standing inside of them, it means that it's often in the hands of the Thief itself whether or not the Thief dies in any given fight, and that's the cancerous paradigm that it has spread to other classes.

> >

> > What! Lmao what game are u playing?

>

> Just to let you know; Swagg knows history and is not new to the game either- is 100!% correct

Just to let u know hes wrong and for some reason every post of urs i see regarding thief is clearly biased against them like u have a vendetta lmao yet ur always in thief forums hmmm. I've played theif almost 4 yrs and I can say thief has undergone many changes that effect how it effectively performs over the years including builds such as d/p dropping away.sure s/d stilk meta but that's only because it's best it's got. U post a clip of passive thief build that shows thief's strengths moving around map avoiding any real fights so if insinuating thief's op lmao build was a joke build not serious at all but if it was opposite and was a kill everyone or win all 1v1 fights than its showcase an op build lol u also post a 7 year old video trying to do the same when thief and all the other classes have changed so much especially since espects lmao, it's silly asf.

> @"incisorr.9502" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"incisorr.9502" said:

> > > imagine saying with a straight face that rev has no damage on staff when i've been hit by staff with daggers for 15k dmg

> > >

> > > with unblockable

> > >

> > > aoe knockdown

> > >

> > > XD

> > >

> > >

> > Damage on staff is indeed garbage. Never been a dps weapon except staff 5 but that skills dps was nerfed hard.

>

> compared to sword it might be garbage but compared to other damage in gw2 it's not

>

> it might not be the highest dmg in the game but it's not 0 and staff 5 might've been nerfed hard but it still does ridiculous dmg to squishy builds

No it's pretty much garbo compared to other classes dps weapons but its inline as a utility weapon.do wish staff 5 was buffed a little,not to where it was tho.

> @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > > My core staff ele build (2013):

> > > Attack: <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > Defense: <3

> > > Control: <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > Mobility: <3 <3 <3

> > > Evasion: <3 <3

> > >

> > > The exact same build in 2018 despite LUDICROUS powercreep:

> > > Attack: <3 <3 <3

> > > Defense: <3 <3

> > > Control: <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > Evasion: <3 <3

> > > Revives: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

> > >

> > >

> > > > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > > > > http://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta

> > > > > 'It isn’t often that I’ll feel inclined to point the finger at a class or two in a massively multiplayer game and blame it for the woes of an entire game mode. While I certainly wouldn’t go that far here, I do believe the Thief and Mesmer and some of their mechanics are the cause of many problems in Guild Wars 2’s PvP'

> > > > >

> > > > > Thief and Mesmer

> > > > > (all specializations included)

> > > > >

> > > > > Attack- <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > > > Defense <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > > > Control <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > > > Evasion <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > > > Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

> > > >

> > > > ????????

> > > >

> > > > It's 2015 post by a guy who thinks Thieves run Berserker amulet and as an example of the _"massive burst dmg'_ posts a 4,6k backstab vs Light Armor target which is god.kitten **NOTHING** compared to what most of the power professions can do with much better frequency.

> > > > **Literally** the only thing in that post which was true is that Thief has access to more stealth than others. Thief was +1 even before 2015... wonder how is that since that guy makes it sound like such an ultimate 1v1 killer.

> > >

> > > You say all that, and yet Thief and Mesmer have the exact same sort of builds even now. There has been zero deviance from their core playstyles despite sometimes getting extra buttons

> >

> > So??

> > Thief having the very same build as it always had, has **absolutely nothing** to do with **anything** in that post.

> > That Thief still has D/P and S/D Build somehow confirms that clueless guy theory that Thief is a 1v1 God with best at everything even though there is no logical correlation?

>

> Two whole classes only have one play-style: playing super passive until one has enough resource or cooldowns to rotate through a PvE-tier DPS rotation saturated with teleports and protracted evasion periods. This play-style has survived all the way through the game's historical continuity, and has even been outright replicated and shoved into other classes. Just because Thief and core Mesmer might not populate the top rankings any more doesn't somehow mean that their shallow, low-effort play-style isn't yet the meta-shaping gravity well which siphons the IQ of all who participate in PvP. It's sort of like this one player who told me about how nobody should complain about conditions because his autoattack-centric Mesmer build doesn't get guaranteed kills with his strategy: *just because something is ineffective within the grand scheme of the GW2 PvP environment doesn't mean that it doesn't deserve to be scrutinized and criticized for being unhealthy for competition and skillful play.*

>

> The Thief D/P build is incredibly passive and flighty despite being able to inflict lethal damage with impunity due to teleports and stealth spam; the S/D build consistently negates any importance of positioning and timing by teleporting through walls at will and attacking while evading. Neither of these things encourage any sort of skillful play. They just encourage turtling as a response and rock-paper-scissors reactions to a class which engages combat in a manner similar to people what one might see in a Peer-to-Peer FPS server. It's complete silliness.

>

> Basically, the problem with Thief (and Mesmer) has always been that the user dies only because the user "messed up." There is almost zero reason that a Thief should ever die in any circumstance; it simply has too many means to escape or attack with impunity (even if said attacks don't necessarily result in a kill). Coupled with the fact that it can freely teleport across a map in a gamemode dominated by capturing stationary circles by standing inside of them, it means that it's often in the hands of the Thief itself whether or not the Thief dies in any given fight, and that's the cancerous paradigm that it has spread to other classes.

What! Lmao what game are u playing?

> @"incisorr.9502" said:

> imagine saying with a straight face that rev has no damage on staff when i've been hit by staff with daggers for 15k dmg

>

> with unblockable

>

> aoe knockdown

>

> XD

>

>

Damage on staff is indeed garbage. Never been a dps weapon except staff 5 but that skills dps was nerfed hard.

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> May i also add this?? Which is still relevant to the thread after 7 years?

> 'GO WITH THIEF - Guild Wars 2 Original Fan Song - Beyond Repair' by Beyond Repair

>

> Thanks!!!

> Enjoy!!

>

>

Thief's a far different beast than it was 7 years ago,far different as are other classes due to powercreep. Do u play thief alot?lol

Arenet did some work on herald which from what I understood was the only spec of revs that seemed almost complete, so what changes to core or renegade would u guys like to see? Arenet pls view feedback lol