Psycoprophet.8107

Both are carry classes that are powercrept. Ull do great with either.

> @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Its depressing to think how long thief will be left in its current joke of a state.

>

> There is hope that maybe some complaints will be addressed tomorrow. I do find it disheartening that despite the massive amounts of feedback that we weren't even at least acknowledged that we have been heard. Most of the posts after the patch have been very constructive and have given a ton of good ideas. That is actually more depressing.

Nothing wrong with being positive so dont get me wrong but I doubt anything will be addressed and it's more likely nothing will be changed with thief and if so probably be in the form of more nerfs presented as buffs.

Its depressing to think how long thief will be left in its current joke of a state.

> @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > Unless of course it is their plan for thief to literally be a runner/decapper and nothing else.

> >

> > I could understand that if they would actually design the Thief for that "role."

> > Give the Thief traits to actually succeed in decapping. Examples...

> >

> > **Swift Swindler:** A control node with only the Thief present will capture/neutralize at twice the rate.

> >

> > **Undeniable Presence:** A control node with only the Thief present will capture/neutralize even if the Thief is Stealthed.

> >

> > **Unseen Defender:** A contested control node fully controlled by the Thief's team will not be neutralized as long as the Thief is present even if Stealthed.

> >

> > **Right Under Their Nose:** A contested control node will slowly neutralize as long as the Thief is present and visible. If the Thief leaves the control node or enters Stealth even for a moment, all neutralization progress will instantly be lost.

> >

> > **Security System:** The Thief leaves a trap on a control node that it neutralizes. When activated, the trap knocks all opponents out of the control node and creates an impassible forcefield around the control node that lasts for 5 seconds.

> >

> > Could they break things? Of course. They are just examples. Unfortunately, the Thief is already broken. If it's going to be a decapper, they may as well give it the tools to succeed at it. Personally, I'd prefer better combat/assassination ability, but if they won't give us that, then the "sabotage/steal control nodes" aspect could be quite fun if given the proper tools.

>

> While I understand the desire to improve thief, I do not think adding traits that are specific to one game mode is the way to go.

>

> Where they went wrong with thief is in giving it a role that was very specific to the profession and then spreading all of those abilities to other classes wherein those professions did not "lose anything" to garner those abilities even as the tools that made this work on thief were made weaker. IE , lowering the ability to stealth on thief even as stealth passed out to other classes. Curtailing port abilities even as more ports added to other classes. Cutting back on burst damage even as more burst added to other classes.

This^

Really seems like arenanet has a double standard regarding thief balancing when compared to other classes. Definitely could be wrong but kinda feels like not really knowing how to balance thief mixed with relying on nerf cries led to alot of the changes due to the fact alot seemed like they wernt very thought out.

Nothing! Aaannnnnnddddd ur gonna get a warning for name dropping lol

Just delete 75% of the classes,their complete cheese with little counter play.

Or sb5 actually work across all gaps in wvw

Just delete thief and make everyone happy, why delay the inevitable, they're already 3/4 there,just finish it already lol

> @"Vancho.8750" said:

> The only way i see them buffing thief is by nerfing/buffing mobility so you need to take a trait where it unnerfs the mobility but it also competes with sustain and damage traits so you will have to pick what you want to excel at.

Yes! Cuz thief cant excel at multiple things like most classes. People need to drop this bs about thiefs mobility needing dropped for any buff,its ridiculous. Most classes have good to great sustain,higher burst than thief as well as more effective standard skills all while being very mobile except for necro,though I can juke very well on reaper using wurm and spec walk. Right now the thief class is mobility and a few meme one trick pony burst and that's it,its a joke. Than uve got classes like warrior with great mobility,burst and sustain,soulbeast is another example and I could name more. So because of the community hating on thief because of thier design and it being annoying to other people's preferred class/playstyle they cry to get it gutted and now it is so awsome :) and theres still people complaing.never ends lol

Thief the assassin class is fine but bit useless in combat? Lol the class is the worst 1v1 class while being the most glassy. Right now it's only a viable runner to decap nodes. In wvw their a joke beyond meme builds. I love seeing on my reaper lol they either run or die in seconds, must be fun for em. They are far from fine.

> @"Duckota.4769" said:

> How are all of you dying to the worst duelist in the game while running solo..... yikes. The amount of people complaining about thief is a bit troubling considering they are literally terrible 1v1 and are a +1 at best.

It wasn't a thief that ganked me and it's on me because I didnt cheque log. I've played this game for years and know when I've been hit by a MBS,ranged sic em build etc cuz I've done it all a thousand times. The post was soposed to be a nice way of insinuating a hack. I was downed and stomped by a literal ghost. A thief would have been revealed as he damaged me. I heard and witnessed my hp go down over what looked like 3 separate attacks and than was stomped all by an invisible enemy

> @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:

> > @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > > @"ParanoidKami.2867" said:

> > > It was overpowered before. Deadeyes were stacking it outside of combat and then giving large bursts to instantly kill people.

> >

> > U can still instantly kill people as deadeye. If your opponent doesn't dodge your burst. Lead attacks really didn't change much. Deadeye is dead now always with stealth Nerf. Been gutted.

>

> Actually, perma stealth deadeye is now the only viable deadeye in WvW. The nerf only succeeded in killing my quickness CC build and forced me to play one shot SA. GG devs!

That's seems the norm when it comes to thier thief balancing lol cant be having build deversity.

Arenet really needs to give thief as a whole ACTUAL significant buffs for it to become viable in the game as it is and stop conforming to nerf cries that are often spouted out of annoyance rather than the the skills in question actually being OP. Unless of course it is their plan for thief to literally be a runner/decapper and nothing else. If that is the case what a waste of what used to be a fun class.

> @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > OH kitten DD NEEDS A TRADE OFF! Umm what is easiest? Nerf steal range.

>

> The more I think about it, the more puzzled I become. Their actions do not align with their stated goal at all!

>

> > Patch description:

> > Our focus on the thief in this update has been toward daredevil, its traits, and the trade-off that it was inherently built without.

>

> Daredevil was built without a trade-off? Are you kidding me? Daredevil **IS** the trade-off! You literally gutted Acrobatics in order to create Daredevil!

> If Acrobatics remained intact, Thieves could have actually been evasive AND chosen Deadeye. That's already a huge loss.

> Well, perhaps you're right. Daredevil wasn't built with a trade-off... in the OTHER direction! What's the benefit of gaining a third dodge that we already had before?

> So you halved the range of Steal, but what does Daredevil get in return? What's the benefit to choosing it over a pre-gutted Acrobatics Thief?

>

> If you're going to make something unblockable, at least give it something that is worth blocking. Again, Steal/Swipe does absolutely NOTHING to be blocked. Blocking a Steal is like stunning an AFK player. It's an absolute waste. At least give it an inherent daze. Give it a half-second knockdown. Give it meaning.

>

> > Patch description:

> > Daredevil traits have been reworked to focus on three categories: choosing your defense in the Adept tier; choosing your damage in the Master tier; and choosing your dodge maneuver in the Grandmaster tier.

>

> You're deciding to clearly organize traitlines now? If so, can you PLEASE go and do the same for all the other Thief traitlines?

> Also, all three Grandmaster slots being a mere choice of dodge modifications is rather silly. An actual benefit to trade-off for the Steal range reduction would be to make the dodge modifications F3, F4, and F5 so the Thief can adapt.

>

> > Patch description:

> > With this update, we are adding a trade-off to the profession skill that keeps the theme of a melee-oriented specialization.

>

> Again, what is the trade-off that keeps the them of a melee-oriented specialization?

> Half-ranged gap closer? Why? So the Daredevil cannot run far away between Steals? It still can. Or to make it easy pickings for a sniping Ranger?

> Weaker Staff attacks? Yeah, that really keeps it melee-oriented.

>

> Come on Anet! The Thief is already on the bottom of the food chain in Conquest. The Daredevil is just a different shade of Thief... it's not "special" like the Deadeye.

>

> PS. Oh my... what "trade-off" are they going to make with Deadeye now? Only one dodge? A chance for a gun malfunction? Self-knockback on Death's Judgement?

DD having access to all three dodges as a way to adapt to fights is awsome.

100% agree with the rest as well.

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Nocturnal Lunacy.8563" said:

> > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > @"Nocturnal Lunacy.8563" said:

> > > > After seeing everybody's builds, I am seeing why necro is such a ...... show right now. None of you have absolutely no clue as to the intention of the necro or what a necro can actually do. You're all severely limiting yourselves. Taking metabattle builds and changing some things lol. Learn the class, learn the game, quit making builds where all you have to do is spam to win. Seriously, spite? curses? rofl

> > >

> > > If you're so much better than all of us. You should definitely share your build

> >

> > I have and hey i even have record vids of me dominating all of you

>

> Lol.

>

> You might have never even met me. You on EU or na?

>

> And I never saw your name here in the necro sub before, as far as I remember. So you shared builds 2years ago? Cause that's when I went active in the forum.

> Or you never posted a good build or a very bad build either, cause else I'd remember you.

>

> So afraid to post your build?

How dare u question the master! :)

Most of thiefs traps are horribly outdated and in need of a revamp,not to mention most are bug ridden.

> @"Kovu.7560" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > > > Is the point that you got hit by a telegraphed shot that can be blocked or reflected?

> > > >

> > > > I think the point is that regardless whether it can be blocked,reflected or dodged no one attack should do close to that this games powercreep is getting ridiculous. Imagine already being engaged with someone and being one shot from a sic em ranger just strolling by,its beyond stupid

> > >

> > > That's what you sign up for though. It's an open zone, everybody can do whatever they want so ganking, as annoying as it is, is to be expected. In the case of Death's Judgment we have a skill that is balanced around having a very obvious tell and sound. It's allowed to deal high damage because getting it to hit somebody isn't guaranteed. We can argue that ranger is sorely lacking that however and I would be inclined to agree. That and the fact their long range attacks can easily be made unblockable.

> >

> > Than why these nerf thief crys **over last few yrs?** why the dagger dps cries,why the MBS cries? Why the daggerstorm cries. So when its ranger installed deleting people with unblockable sic em rapid fires,or revs super bursts or warrior arc divider is fine. If arenet decides such high burst are unacceptable on low sustain classes yetgives high sustain classes crazy bursts lmao like do they have a clue what thier doing? No class should have a skill even with modifiers that can 1 or 2 shot anyone. Regardless common sense would dictate lower the sustain higher the burst potential for more than obvious reasons but not to arenet dev's

>

> Because before PoF ranger damage was laughable and before HoT their sustain was laughable. The core profession is better now than it was at HoT launch and back then they were basically just free bags for thieves, among others. People seem to forget ranger weapons overall have the worst coefficients in the game (supposedly a counterbalance for pet contribution) and **the only reason we see obscene numbers from soulbeasts these days is because of the multipliers they introduced to various traitlines along with** (and here's the big one) **sic 'em**.

>

> Notice how most issues that come up with ranger damage tends to boil down to sic 'em? Perhaps arc divider, among other skills needs a cut to its damage, but ranger _skills_ don't need nerfing, their ability to stack so many damage multipliers does.

>

> Not everything needs to be nerfed in the same way, and I'd hate to see rapid fire, maul, WI etc. have their damage cut because of a utility skill conjoined with some traits that are overperforming. That just punishes non-soulbeasts, and when's the last time someone whined about a core ranger's damage?

>

> ~ Kovu

>

> edit- Oh, and the extra damage rangers get from eating their pet.

I think everybody knows the issue is sic em and the fact ranger has multiple ways to achieve unblockable with said multipliers. Most people are asking for the unblockable to be shaved a bit as well as the damage multipliers. If the pets kept the 40% from sic em but when merged the multiplier was reduced to 15% people would probably feel it's fine. Is that not more in line with other classes multipliers?

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > @"Kolly.9872" said:

> > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > Carefully that post will prob warrant a ban.i got a warning cuz I made a thread about not seeing many thieves in wvw anymore and stating good job arenet. I cant believe arenet let's the moderators ban people for so little,ud think especially given recent history they'd like to keep all the paying customers they can,buy gues not. They are giving warning for rediculouse reasons.

> > > >

> > > > I have spent a lot of Money on this game and still they ban me everytime I try to voice my disappointment.

> > >

> > > Pretty sure they don't remove your threads just for "voicing your disappointment". And I'm not sure how money spent by you is in any way relevant here :D

> >

> > mmm nah, they can be pretty petty. They have put marks for essentially nothing.

> >

> > For example one time, I deleted one of my own comments that didnt quite add to the convo but didnt break the forum rules and replaced it with "deleted comment", and they jailed me (3 points).

> >

> > Also the money point is relevant because they are claiming the forum mods are silencing paying customers who have complaints. This, if true, will most certainly drive away some players.

> >

> >

> > Not everyone is happy with the state of the game, but are there enough who are dissatisfied for it to matter?

>

> Just skim through the forum and you'll see a lot of complaints that "magically" aren't deleted, so I'm still calling bullkitten on this. Stop insulting people in your "just voicing disappointment" threads and I doubt anyone will have a reason to delete it.

> And no, I'm not saying their moderation is good (or even consistent at times), but claiming that they delete threads "because I voiced my disappointment and they can't deal with it" just seems like a big stretch.

>

>

> What he wrote was:

> >I have spent a lot of Money on this game and still they ban me

>

> Which looks to me like expecting to get special treatment on boards based on the fact that he spent money, lmao. I'm not sure how paying would render you immune to the rules that everyone has to obey, that makes literally no sense.

How do u explain my thread disappearing thief getting removed and me getting a warning when all I said was I hardly see thieves in wvw after 1.5 hrs the previous night I saw 1 DD who was on our team. Since the patch theyve almost disappeared on my server,atleast on mine anyway. I even stated other may have been having a different experience as I can only speak to my own. I then stated good job arenet.

Is that really such a bad, insulting thread? Constructive criticism pointing out there is a problem and its affecting thier playerbase, if I was a dev I would want to kno but gues that's just me.

Arenanet really needs to take serious look at the huge disparity between the classes regarding thier effectiveness. It should be high on thier priority list imo.

> @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:

> > > So... you complain about "toxic wvw enemies".

> > > Well, I think you wouldn't get many of these toxic messages if:

> > > 1. Wouldn't run unbalanced build that carries you into oblivion.

> > > 2. Gank other players with your friends 25/8.

> > > 3. Being rude after fights aka jumping on enemy or dropping rams or laughing.

> > > 4. Poking enemy on your ranger from walls 25/8.

> > > 5. Hiding behind walls and ac's most of the time.

> > > 6. Etc.

> > > There are ofcourse people that will be still toxic for no reason, but don't come QQ on forum if you've done to your so called toxic enemies any of those above.

> > > Seriously guys, if you don't want "toxicity", then stop being the reason for it...

> >

> > #4 is actually a legit strat as thats one things rangers excel at. If someone whispers you for that, then you know you are doing what you are supposed to (yay validation)

>

> I kind of feel bad sometimes when i'm on a wall but on the other hand... i'm standing RIGHT THERE in plain view, what did the dead person think was going to happen :/

Yeah it's easy enough to just walk by at a distance so that's on them lol somtimes ill notice a pew pew running back and forth on the same wall of a camp for like a hr trying to pew pew everybody that goes by and just think wow they must be having good times lmao

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > Is the point that you got hit by a telegraphed shot that can be blocked or reflected?

> >

> > I think the point is that regardless whether it can be blocked,reflected or dodged no one attack should do close to that this games powercreep is getting ridiculous. Imagine already being engaged with someone and being one shot from a sic em ranger just strolling by,its beyond stupid

>

> That's what you sign up for though. It's an open zone, everybody can do whatever they want so ganking, as annoying as it is, is to be expected. In the case of Death's Judgment we have a skill that is balanced around having a very obvious tell and sound. It's allowed to deal high damage because getting it to hit somebody isn't guaranteed. We can argue that ranger is sorely lacking that however and I would be inclined to agree. That and the fact their long range attacks can easily be made unblockable.

Than why these nerf thief crys over last few yrs?why the dagger dps cries,why the MBS cries? Why the daggerstorm cries. So when its ranger installed deleting people with unblockable sic em rapid fires,or revs super bursts or warrior arc divider is fine. If arenet decides such high burst are unacceptable on low sustain classes yetgives high sustain classes crazy bursts lmao like do they have a clue what thier doing? No class should have a skill even with modifiers that can 1 or 2 shot anyone. Regardless common sense would dictate lower the sustain higher the burst potential for more than obvious reasons but not to arenet dev's

Haha atleast in the days when thief had high burstsit was truly squishy not like the sustainy one shotting or close to it builds nowadays. Even a pure sic em build isn't really squishy,its just the least sustainy of sb builds lol

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> Is the point that you got hit by a telegraphed shot that can be blocked or reflected?

I think the point is that regardless whether it can be blocked,reflected or dodged no one attack should do close to that this games powercreep is getting ridiculous. Imagine already being engaged with someone and being one shot from a sic em ranger just strolling by,its beyond stupid

This whole thread amounts to players playing together in a open world pvp mode that allows multiple playstyles and a more diverse combat than the conquest pvp mode. This is the reason for alot of players choosing wvw over conquest. The players that prefer zerging have chosen the fotm meta zerg cheese class/builds that are not equiped with the tools to deal with roaming classes. On the other side of things players that prefer roaming chose the fotm cheese class/builds that are equiped for burst and small scale fights but are inadequate for zerging. Neither side was or is wrong for spending what game time they have on thier prefered playstyle. Yes its annoying when built for zerging to be caught off guard and downed by a roamer on route to a zerg but like anything take steps to avoid it if it bothers u so much, As a frequent reaper player even I was able to take utilities to help avoid fights or areas on route to the zerg. Just as zergers arent good roam builds roam builds arent good zerg builds and their not complaining about getting wrecked every time the attempt to join a zerg as they know thier class or build isn't optimal for it. Both playstyles are as valid as the other,people need to stop thinking thier prefered playstyle is the only right way and that the other is wrong because it interferes with that playstyle. After all if it didnt the playstyles wouldn't be adding much diversity would they? War claw should have been implemented in a way that allows the qol mobility for slow zerg classes to get to zergs but while also not disrupting the roaming playstyle of intercepting zergers en route back to thier zerg which is a valid way to help ur server as a roamer without actively being in the zerg.

> @"bbop.9706" said:

> > @"ruller.2084" said:

> > > @"bladezero.9470" said:

> > > > @"choovanski.5462" said:

> > > > > @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > > > > When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease.

> > > >

> > > > why would anyone who actually wants a skill based game play this mess?

> > > >

> > > > i came back for a few days after almost 2 years gone, didn’t last. pvp is powercreeped skillless spam right now, i literally killed people with just arc divider. this game is a joke, & anyone with even half a brain will realise this & quit.

> > > >

> > > > thats why population is low & players suck, it’s a reflection of the quality of the pvp experience.

> > >

> > > I agree completely here, but god kitten... The combat system in GW2 is a million miles better than anything else out there.

> > >

> > > Nothing.

> > >

> > > Comes.

> > >

> > > Close.

> >

> > Elder Scrolls Online is astronomically better than GW2 combat

>

> LMFAO

ESO does ALOT of things better than gw2, combat isn't one of them.