Psycoprophet.8107

No disrespect to anyone here but arenanet should be and should have already been listening to players like bluri and other players that have been maining thief in high level play for years. They would have the best idea how to incorporate thief changes to make them more competitive against the other classes especially if thief specs were to be changed to fill different roles like 1v1 instead of being a decapper slave.

Unfortunately this thread is a waste though due to the fact that arenanet not only hasn't been listening to these players but hasn't been listening to any thief players over the years. The class has been molded by non thief players and seemingly clueless devs making changes leaving the long time competing thief players scratching their heads as to the intentions of the changes.

Just run noody's new staff meta build,according to warrior mains in their section thief is a top 1v1 class and warrior are not lmao

> @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > > Spellbreaker is one of the legit powercrept classes and needs toned down. Arc devider was broken and needed toned down. Berserker needs work in other areas so as to not depend on one broken skill(or two if u consider rampage op) also hitman if u think thief these days is OP next to spellbreaker than theirs really not going to be any point in arguing with u cuz u clearly are a warrior player who will not see their class for what it is pick a thief and fight a warrior spec,see how it goes.

> > > > >

> > > > > It depends on the player skill level and the opponents that you face. For most of the time, I encounter thieves wannabes that don't know how to play their class, but when I face a master thief that knows each and every single skill and trait of their profession, then that's when the warrior stands no chance. It does not matter if you are #1 warrior in Guild wars 2, warrior is just not build to deal with thieves.

> > > > >

> > > > > As a starter, thieves can disengage anytime they want, so just by doing that, the fight is a tie.

> > > > > The more skillful players will use stealth and stuns to wear down the warrior defenses.

> > > > > The even more skillful players will use stealth, stuns, blinds, poison and weakness to render the warrior completely useless. Yes, COMPLETELY USELESS!

> > > > >

> > > > > Now, for those master thieves out there that know what I am talking about, you know that thieves are by far more overpower than the warrior and you well know that warrior stands no chance against your BS skills. It takes honesty and courage to accept this fact.

> > > >

> > > > U are very wrong. A good warrior stomps a good theif pretty easily in a 1v1. A good thief knows this and avoids the fight altogether or unless it's a +1 or lastly they kno the warrior is a noob. I've played thief over 4 yrs almost exclusively,not saying I'm great by any means but I kno the class pretty well. I boosted a warrior almost month ago and have wrecked face far easier in wvw with warrior and spellbreaker it's not even close. Thiefs reward for high skill these days is low, I was winning 1v1 and doing ok out numbered on warrior by the next day lol.

> > >

> > > lol people trying to convince that warriors wreck thieves like nothing. YES it is true if the thief is a noob, but if the thief is not a noob, then there is no way to beat him as a warrior.

> >

> > Warrior is a top 1v1 and thief one of if not the worse 1v1 and ur saying a good thief beats a good warrior lmao are u new? Wow

>

> Warrior is top 1 vs 1? lol you clearly are the new here.

> Warrior is mid tier in 1 vs 1.

> Warrior is strong in X vs X

>

> Thief worse in 1 vs 1? HAHAHAHAHAH you are obviously new.

> Thief is top tier in 1 vs 1.

> Thief is trash in X vs X.

>

> You need to play more GW2

Thief is a +1 decapper class because it is literally the worst class to 1v1 on lmao it's been this way for years and common knowledge. U literally are a noob trying to come of as somthing else lmao quit trolling or learn the game before posting arguements. And yeah warriors/spell breakers are the meta side noders due to their great 1v1 potential. Seriously u start playing this game few weeks ago or somthing lmao thief has never been even close to top tier 1v1. I'm done arguing with a warrior main that will literally argue the opposite of reality to defend its powercrept class. I cant even imagine someone thinking thief is a better 1v1 than a spellbreaker,I donnowhat to tell u but ur way off on what classes u think are good at what roles. I understand u probably got beat by a great thief while ur using warrior due to u not being that great yet but in time as u get better ull notice that warriors stomp thieves hard in 1v1 of equal skill,if the thief is stupid enough to try 1v1 a warrior in first place.

> @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > Spellbreaker is one of the legit powercrept classes and needs toned down. Arc devider was broken and needed toned down. Berserker needs work in other areas so as to not depend on one broken skill(or two if u consider rampage op) also hitman if u think thief these days is OP next to spellbreaker than theirs really not going to be any point in arguing with u cuz u clearly are a warrior player who will not see their class for what it is pick a thief and fight a warrior spec,see how it goes.

> > >

> > > It depends on the player skill level and the opponents that you face. For most of the time, I encounter thieves wannabes that don't know how to play their class, but when I face a master thief that knows each and every single skill and trait of their profession, then that's when the warrior stands no chance. It does not matter if you are #1 warrior in Guild wars 2, warrior is just not build to deal with thieves.

> > >

> > > As a starter, thieves can disengage anytime they want, so just by doing that, the fight is a tie.

> > > The more skillful players will use stealth and stuns to wear down the warrior defenses.

> > > The even more skillful players will use stealth, stuns, blinds, poison and weakness to render the warrior completely useless. Yes, COMPLETELY USELESS!

> > >

> > > Now, for those master thieves out there that know what I am talking about, you know that thieves are by far more overpower than the warrior and you well know that warrior stands no chance against your BS skills. It takes honesty and courage to accept this fact.

> >

> > U are very wrong. A good warrior stomps a good theif pretty easily in a 1v1. A good thief knows this and avoids the fight altogether or unless it's a +1 or lastly they kno the warrior is a noob. I've played thief over 4 yrs almost exclusively,not saying I'm great by any means but I kno the class pretty well. I boosted a warrior almost month ago and have wrecked face far easier in wvw with warrior and spellbreaker it's not even close. Thiefs reward for high skill these days is low, I was winning 1v1 and doing ok out numbered on warrior by the next day lol.

>

> lol people trying to convince that warriors wreck thieves like nothing. YES it is true if the thief is a noob, but if the thief is not a noob, then there is no way to beat him as a warrior.

Warrior is a top 1v1 and thief one of if not the worse 1v1 and ur saying a good thief beats a good warrior lmao are u new? Wow

Sustain is too high over all and the dps is too high on the high sustain classes in comparison to the squishy low sustain classes. U have classes/builds now in this game that have insane sustain potential while out putting insane high bursts dps etc. Then uve got classes that were given ways to sustain at a reasonable amount but no where near the amount of alot of the other classes/builds all while having similar and in some cases lower dps bursts. It's really is like the balance team plays the bare minimum of their game and of course some natural bias of prefered classes seem to fair better in the end.

> @"pureskullz.7536" said:

> > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > This is always been the problem with the Thief. Not only it is trading damage for survivability, it is also trading armor for health. 2800 armor still nothing since 11k is just 2-3 hits or 1 hit from 3 sources.

> >

> > Looking at my Necro/Scourge, I can get 3k armor with 20k health and 1500 condition damage.

> >

> > How exactly a Thief can compete against that?

> >

> > It's just sad that the Dev refused to address this. /smh

>

> High skill cap class that has more dodges than 90% other classes that's how shear reaction speed as anything else.

Just as thief had better mobility other classes have more blocks invulnerability etc ontop of thier better hp and toughness.

Now they just gotta buff thiefs dps to match its sustain as they clearly cant stay in fights long and have to end fights fast or run away before they get 2-3 shot.

I cannot believe that there are people in these forums that still think thief is powercrept lmao I'm at a loss for words,dont even know what to think at this point. Thief would have to be stripped of its ability to move or attack before people would drop the thiefs OP delusion and look to their own class on regards to how it should be nerfed.

> @"Woof.8246" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > > Some classes also have invulns they can use =]

> > >

> > > Warriors do. (Way to much actually)

> > > Guardians do.

> > > Rangers do.

> > > Mesmers do.

> > > Necromancers dont.

> > > Engineers do.

> > > Thief's do. (Evasion up the wazzoo)

> > > Rev's do.

> > > Elementalist do.

> > >

> > > Poor necros, just gotta hope to soak it up, but everyone else can atleast build against it. And please dont give me that.

> >

> > Thief has no invulnerability so.... evade isn't the same in the slightest as everyone has evade through dodge ontop of a few skills with built 8n evades. DS can be shut down by condi.

>

> Condition can be removed by Escapist's Fortitude + Superior Rune of Lyssa , while you cast Bay Blade...i mean Dagger Storm.

>

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > > Ahh so for thief your advice is.

> > > >

> > > > Blow your elite and survive or die. and

> > > > Dodge..

> > > >

> > > > Good one. Wish everyone that played it woulda thought of that.

> > >

> > > Your elite can be used for any way you wanna use it. A smart way to use it. Since its a defensive skill...not sure why you wouldnt use it for defense.

> > >

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > Whirling defence? U mean DS? Any ranger will survive and or step back and delete u once ur spins over or use any skill that apply condi. Only a ranger with less than 25% hp and bad awareness dies to DS. This is akin to the community thief is invincible with its infinite dodge and ini people seem to quote it having.

> > >

> > > its not used to kill the ranger, its used to survive their burst. As the point of this topic.

> >

> > And after u servive the burst? Slb can do multiple burst that will instantly down a thief so. But ur right thief can avoid a standard attack using DS and other evades as every other class can. Cool story lol

>

> Thief has build in evades attacks , with the weapons

>

>

> Could you either :

> a) to try to defend your class (create more powercreep) or

>

> b) choose to make threads asking the Devs to fix their game (less powercreep)

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/76805/fix-balance-disparity-between-classes-please

>

> Its the same disparity of view we had in 7 years ago from the thief population

>

> (Now that Gaile is gone , canwe attack each other ?

> They will defend => whine for powercreep -> move to other games in 2 years period ...

> 7 years its the same ''movie''

> in 2 years , they frustate 200 players , and they simply ''move on '' like they didnt do anything wrong...)

Lmao so because a noody makes a build and names the vid new meta build u uptake it as a new meta build? Seriously u xant be serious. Vallun has some builds up to where he does the usual +1 ing,nothing's changed. Even the streamer u use as a example comments in vallun stream how last patch killed d/p lmao. If u think thief is a viable brawler spec especially these days against the powercrept classes that are out now u are a very bad player losing to thief in 1v1 lol sry dont mean any disrespect but is true. Thief hasn't been close to OP or even viable as a brawler or 1v1 for a lot of years now. Theres a reason it's used to decap and +1 right? U can delude urself into thinking otherwise to make u feel better about playing ur powercrept class and yet still losing to a weak class like thief :)

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > The disconnection is occurring with every class unfortunately when comes to nerfs. This game has the beat iteration of the ranger class of any mmo imo and thier needing the wrong areas and not giving the right areas any love. Not surprising tho

>

> I think they're doing a fine job with their intended plan of making every ranger player a soulbeast in every game mode.

True. Soulbeast is a great concept but druid is a awsome concept as well,such a waste.

> @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > Ahh so for thief your advice is.

> >

> > Blow your elite and survive or die. and

> > Dodge..

> >

> > Good one. Wish everyone that played it woulda thought of that.

>

> Your elite can be used for any way you wanna use it. A smart way to use it. Since its a defensive skill...not sure why you wouldnt use it for defense.

>

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Whirling defence? U mean DS? Any ranger will survive and or step back and delete u once ur spins over or use any skill that apply condi. Only a ranger with less than 25% hp and bad awareness dies to DS. This is akin to the community thief is invincible with its infinite dodge and ini people seem to quote it having.

>

> its not used to kill the ranger, its used to survive their burst. As the point of this topic.

And after u servive the burst? Slb can do multiple burst that will instantly down a thief so. But ur right thief can avoid a standard attack using DS and other evades as every other class can. Cool story lol

> @"KelyNeli.4516" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > @"KelyNeli.4516" said:

> > > Thats a ton of thing warrior has to do in order to get even close to anyone, when other classes has 1 button instant teleport in top of the enemy.

> >

> > Ok, so you're complaining because a class that you want next to you in order to slap him in the face can... tp in your face? Cool, that takes care of the gap closer part of your "problem". Not to mention that a claims as if warriors lack mobility just because "they can't tp" is just absurd.

>

> Nope i am not complaining.

> Im just pointing out a fact that there are classes and specs that has giant edge in mobility abilities over berserker warrior, and there are people who complain about berserker having more damage than other classes because of it, which is pretty biased isnt?

> Berserker has really strong damage during his berserker mode, but has troubles into getting to the enemy and sacrifices a lot of thing in order to do this (for example have to head butt someone to get adrenaline or use signet), there is a trade of. Yet some people in here want to nerf his damage to the point where berserker will deal the same damage as their class, which has much smoother and better designed skills.

> Berserker using 3 GS skill sacrifices a big part of his damage when he uses it to get close to anyone, skill 5 is just a faster run which locks the berserker from doing anything making him vulnerable to anything, Skills 2 is useless in pvp, skill 4 is not stronger either. But lets nerf F1 into the dust and dont do anything else with the class design, because i have been killed by the berserker who had to use all his utility skills in order to kill me with arc divider because it is the only thing that could actually hurt in his kit with GS.

> And sure it may seem fair, but only if you count into that the guy killed by arc divider did not paid any attention to the berserker running to him, which he could have easily dodge anything and just run away in stealth or whatever.

>

>

>

Beserker can take all the the elites making it tanky like endure pain etc and the less endure pain etc cant it? Than it would have decent dps,sustain and mobility. If u chose to build all for power u cant complain that it should have op dps because its sustain or mobility is less than squishy classes just like u cant expect squishy classes to have less dps than warrior because their mobility is better. Problem with the game being in the state it is in right now with dps power creep is even if squishy classes with innate lack of sustain build for sustain they are still squishy. This is amplified by all the invulnerability skills that have been handed out like candy to the already higher sustain classes to deal with the squishy classes burst,issue is the classes that got the invulnerability skills now have the same burst potential. Man discussing balance on any class in this mess of a game is a joke lol

Whirling defence? U mean DS? Any ranger will survive and or step back and delete u once ur spins over or use any skill that apply condi. Only a ranger with less than 25% hp and bad awareness dies to DS. This is akin to the community thief is invincible with its infinite dodge and ini people seem to quote it having.

Pick the soulbeast thief spec hidden under the ranger class name,switch out SB for lb and have far better range,dps and utility. Swap staff for the two handed great sword like weapon and have better skills and utility with a decent block and lastly pick from a array of far better utility skills and BAM instant better DD build. Ur welcome.

> @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > @"Vithzerai.3291" said:

> > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > To reiterate something that was said in another thread.

> > > Rampage is not the only issue, but usually it spells death most people after its use. Warrior has more skills that you MUST dodge than just rampage, and usually it's a death sentence after you have exhausted your defenses trying to deal with the warrior.

> > > Don't be surprised if Rampage does get nerfed, the best thing you could do honestly is hope that a reasonable proposal is looked at. If not, expect a lot of core traits to be nerfed for rampage.

> > > I would remind all of you of the over nerfs to full counter as a cautionary tale of leaving anet to their own devices.

> >

> > This is probably the most valuable post yet out of this whole discussion. Cmon bois, rampage is a lil' too much. I've been playing SB to get back into the game and you can turn 1v1's and teamfights like crazy with rampage, the only thing keeping it in check is Necro corrupt really. As Solori said, would you rather they directly nerf Rampage, or indirectly nerf it by downgrading everything else in Warrior. Warrior has plenty of other things going for it, and as long as they don't completely hammer Rampage into the ground it'll still be perfectly useable. Though the engi variant would also need a retune, for the record.

>

> As I previously said in the other rampage thread, how its overtuned, but rampage-mains apparently have a rampage instead of the brain... How can people be so delusional and be in denial that spb/rampage hard-carry them.

> My thread about all elites and if rampage is not being nerfed to the ground for that long and being taken as prime example of how balanced elite looks like(20.000 bonus health and 25% damage reduction and slowing conditions 33% reduced (but our PRO TORQ manages to die in rampage anyway),lul damage,mobility,CCs),especially with its cooldown, other elites must be brought to its level or rampage brought to other elite levels as MOA/FGS/Lichtransform and lose its PHYSICAL status and left at 150s cd

It happens with every class. Mains don't want their class to be nerfed into being garbage and let's be honest do these devs ever nerf appropriately? Or give appropriate compensations to weak areas within the classes in question? So can't really blame them for fighting to keep the delusion alive lol

> @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> Some classes also have invulns they can use =]

>

> Warriors do. (Way to much actually)

> Guardians do.

> Rangers do.

> Mesmers do.

> Necromancers dont.

> Engineers do.

> Thief's do. (Evasion up the wazzoo)

> Rev's do.

> Elementalist do.

>

> Poor necros, just gotta hope to soak it up, but everyone else can atleast build against it. And please dont give me that.

Thief has no invulnerability so.... evade isn't the same in the slightest as everyone has evade through dodge ontop of a few skills with built 8n evades. DS can be shut down by condi.

Warrior is a very strong class as is spellbreaker as a spec but it's easy to see why people have issues with zerker. The arc was broken and was addressed and is still a string skill. Arenet meets to work on making zerker more rounded as to not depend on one skill.

At this point in the game one would wonder and actually feel sad for people who do such things for such a meaningless tittle or rank. But if it brings them happiness in an obviously otherwise sad state of life let them be.

The disconnection is occurring with every class unfortunately when comes to nerfs. This game has the beat iteration of the ranger class of any mmo imo and thier needing the wrong areas and not giving the right areas any love. Not surprising tho

> @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Spellbreaker is one of the legit powercrept classes and needs toned down. Arc devider was broken and needed toned down. Berserker needs work in other areas so as to not depend on one broken skill(or two if u consider rampage op) also hitman if u think thief these days is OP next to spellbreaker than theirs really not going to be any point in arguing with u cuz u clearly are a warrior player who will not see their class for what it is pick a thief and fight a warrior spec,see how it goes.

>

> It depends on the player skill level and the opponents that you face. For most of the time, I encounter thieves wannabes that don't know how to play their class, but when I face a master thief that knows each and every single skill and trait of their profession, then that's when the warrior stands no chance. It does not matter if you are #1 warrior in Guild wars 2, warrior is just not build to deal with thieves.

>

> As a starter, thieves can disengage anytime they want, so just by doing that, the fight is a tie.

> The more skillful players will use stealth and stuns to wear down the warrior defenses.

> The even more skillful players will use stealth, stuns, blinds, poison and weakness to render the warrior completely useless. Yes, COMPLETELY USELESS!

>

> Now, for those master thieves out there that know what I am talking about, you know that thieves are by far more overpower than the warrior and you well know that warrior stands no chance against your BS skills. It takes honesty and courage to accept this fact.

U are very wrong. A good warrior stomps a good theif pretty easily in a 1v1. A good thief knows this and avoids the fight altogether or unless it's a +1 or lastly they kno the warrior is a noob. I've played thief over 4 yrs almost exclusively,not saying I'm great by any means but I kno the class pretty well. I boosted a warrior almost month ago and have wrecked face far easier in wvw with warrior and spellbreaker it's not even close. Thiefs reward for high skill these days is low, I was winning 1v1 and doing ok out numbered on warrior by the next day lol.

Spellbreaker is one of the legit powercrept classes and needs toned down. Arc devider was broken and needed toned down. Berserker needs work in other areas so as to not depend on one broken skill(or two if u consider rampage op) also hitman if u think thief these days is OP next to spellbreaker than theirs really not going to be any point in arguing with u cuz u clearly are a warrior player who will not see their class for what it is pick a thief and fight a warrior spec,see how it goes.

I woulda made more sense to me for soulbeast pet to get nerfed since it could have been a way to balance the player getting damage multipliers that were initially just meant for the pet ie sic em. Druids pet should be the spec that has a high dps pet. The druid archetype arenets clearly going for would have the strongest possible bond with nature including animals. As usual poorly thought out nerfs that make little sense leaving players of the class scratching their heads.

Here's a few

-Poorly thought out nerfs that negatively effect more aspects of the class than what's supposedly being addressed.

-Every effective skill or playstyle being nerfed eventually due to nerf crys do to class design as a whole.

-every skill or attack feels like ur hitting with a wet noodle against the crazy sustain creep in the game all the while you can get 2 shot by any class any skill.

-only high burst are designed as one trick back stabs etc.

-have to use trickery in every build or run out of ini very fast and can use 0 weapon skills.

There just a few. List would be too big lol

What are you guys talking about? Balance is great in this game.

Tanky high sustain classes keep getting buffed burst damage and sustain and glassy classes keep getting dps nerfs

Cant get anymore balanced than that lol

The stealth sniper concept was cool to me as well. Spending 95% of my playtime jumping thru smoke feilds killed the fun for me really fast. It has no survivability outside of stealth as well. So never really touched it for long. Others though seem to do well on it and will chime in more informative answers hopefully. Have fun :)

Increase fov to max,could be wrong but now u can't.