Psycoprophet.8107

Problem lies in the fact ranger and its modifiers/traits were balanced with its pets damage etc in mind. When soulbeast was able to meld with its pet and gain the pets atributes and boons/modifiers from what was initially just balanced for the pet it became broken. This is just an example of the devs making changes without fully realizing how it would effect the class as a whole. Its similar to how the devs are famous for nerfing classes in a way that not only somtimes address the issue but also kill or gut other already weak areas of the class leaving players confused. As soon as the idea that the player could gain the bonuses from its pet the modifiers should have been adjusted to different coefficients when meld occurs.

> @"kin korn karn.9023" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> >High level teams are dictated by the meta TEAM comps is it not?

>

> No offense, but your wording is awkward and I don't understand what you're trying to say. But it seems like you're focusing on "high level teams," while I'm talking about just about any individual player above gold division. This so-called "one-shot" stops working, and you have to earn your kills just like any class. I do agree that there may be a bit too much unblockable, or perhaps Sic Em provides a bit too much damage. But even as it is, there are already at least a few other dps builds with a superior kit to any Soulbeast build. Very much nerf and Sic Em build will become completely unviable, which I expect will happen because that's what's been done with every other ranger build (the most recent being Boon Beast). People complain on forum because they don't know how to counterplay, then Anet just goes HAM and guts it. Which is fine I guess. I have no attachment to ranger, I just think it'll be a shame once they've nerfed every last ranger build out of the meta.

I'm saying sic em build may not be used in high level mats due to their being better builds or classes that complement team play for example fb/scourge are a staple. Fb is far from a op roamer in wvw but alot of people people would say its OP in conquest and zergs. Same with scourge. Boonbeast would probably be more effective in conquest but in a mode like wvw sic em is more popular for a reason. It's easy to stay at range in a open map like wvw provides and merge,hit sitcom than lb2 and delete most classes,especially is ur +1 the opponent from 1500 range.

Every third player in wvw is soulbeast these day and it's not because it's a great zerg class. U can +1 players with a insane burst from 1500 range,make it unblock able ontop. Yeah sic em build may not fit in the team comp meta at high level MAT's but neither did DE but it was OP right? In wvw DE was a problem for most just as sic em is now. Most of wvw is open and with sic em builds u can one shot all zerk/maurader builds far to easy and if u want slot stone signet for invulnerability among other options for sustain. No skill regardless of class should hit for close to that dps from that range and certainly not unblockable. The just Los and dodge BS arguement works against every op skill in existence,stop using those lame excuses.

Devs maybe when u get a chance can u evaluate the balance disparity between classes such as firebrand,scourge,soulbeast,holo/scrapper and spellbreaker as compared to the rest of the specs? Maybe shaving these down to be more in line with other specs might change this perma meta as well as add class and build diversity to the competitive modes of your game. Maybe let them draw ur attention for a bit.

Necro atleast reaper for me is one of the better roamers in wvw due to warclaw being added. Unless a sic em or DE catch me unaware the fights are usually in my favor. Shroud burst is a real thing and eats people who dont know how to kite fast. Using spec walk off a wall to shroud burst the opposing zerg to tele back on wall is a blast as well. Preemptive wurm and spec walk can make for great juking.

> @"Prinzsecond.4863" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > If thief tries 1v1 a competant holo,soulbeast,warrior/spellbreaker list goes on it will need to disengage or die unless the thief player severely outplayed those classes.

>

> There you have it, you can disengage as a thief almost any class, so you always have the Option to make it a draw while the other class only has Options "win or lose" if it is not tanky enough. That is a Point making thief stronger because you can avoid fights with equal or better skilled Players. You just Need enough skill to make that pool of "equal or better" Players low enough.

>

> > I use reaper alot in wvw and most thiefs are my dinner except the few that can kite.

>

> Kiting should be a Basic ability and not something that only a few can manage. If you Play a build that relys solely on Close range and lose with it while you could just kite then it is IMO simply your own fault of failing and not the class's fault.

>

Thief not being able win most 1v1 because it can disengage is a rediculous reason. Most classes have ways to disengage these days, maybe not quite as well as thief but great non the less. I can distance myself very far from a opponent on warrior using gs,stampede ranger with gs,bird mesmer dont have to explain,holo or scourge have invisibility and leaps list goes on. Theirs a good reason all rogue archetypes in all games have mobility,low hp/sustain and hit hard. No class should be at a disadvantage vs all or most classes in a fight just because it has mobility,especially when its mobility advantage has been severely lessened by other classes being given increased mobility over last few years. Anyone that believes thief should not be able to 1v1 cuz its mobility is just biased towards the class. So all rangers melee should be garbage cuz its range damage potential? Or warrior sustain taken away cuz it's got good mobility and melee dps? Fb stripped of any dps cuz its self and party sustain potential?holo has everything so what should it lose? People are so biased towards the claseed they play and the ones they dont like fighting lol gets embarressing reading people's reasoning for such lmao

> @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > When it's thief or mesmer being effective at anything- nerf cry's flood the forums. It's unfair, gut it,something needs to be done whine whine whine.

> > When it's any other class- use los,get gud,l2p,just dodge and stay outa range lmao

> > Seriously ridiculous

> Exactly, double standarts baby

There are ranger players ACTUALLY saying sic em needs a buff to make soulbeast competitive lmao somtimes u get a little faith in this community than u read garbage like that. This is why I get so triggered with all the thief nerfs its suffered in the past few yrs. I'm fine with the devs shaving thing down on thief if it is legit OP or not in line with their vision but alot 9f the changes were driven by this community who is blatently biased to thier own classes, ranger players staring sic em needing a buff is a great example of that. The devs let a biased community steer their nerf direction leaving the nerfed class players scratching their heads confused. So in the end the most popular classes become and stay powercrept,get more popular due to fotm players and the meta stays the same. Devs should be making their own decisions not the community. Thief as a example doesnt even match the devs in game description of the class any more.

> @"kin korn karn.9023" said:

> Sic Em Soulbeast is definitely not overperforming in high ranks or ATs. It is really punishing against bad players with no awareness, though, so I can understand why this forum is filled with Soulbeast complaint threads.

>

> As for Boonbeast, it's already been nerfed hard and has fallen out of the meta. It's barely even better than Druid at this point.

I wish people would stop using this useless arguement,condi mirages used it before their nerf lol. High level teams are dictated by the meta TEAM comps is it not? So because sic em build doesnt fit into that it's not OP? Lmao ok. It is blatently OP. If any other class did the unblockable dps sic em etc can do at 1500 range while having access to the sustain it has u wouldn't call it OP? Ofcourse u would u just arnt now cuz its ur class and it's obvious and embarrassing lol.i love soulbeast but it is definitely powercrept along with slb,holo and fb and needs toned down. I mean it was OP to have a giant pulsating glowing red blob above ur head before being hit a class that gets 2 shot by any skill by any class and it was nerfed so.... c'mon lol. Soulbeast is a crap zerg class yet because one build based off one skill and modifiers has made it so popular in wvw that every third player I see lately is soulbeast

> @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > > > @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > > > > > @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"verskore.4312" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Ben K.6238" said:

> > > > > > > > > > Sorry. Agreement ain't gonna happen.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > It's blatantly OP.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > blatantly OP? lol sorry but that agreement aint gonna happen either boi.

> > > > > > > > > Skill hasnt been changed for years but suddenly it's blatantly OP?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The skill was changed though...

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It used to be pet specific but now its not, now it effects the Ranger too.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > When was it changed?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Isnt that obvious by what I posted?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > No it is not. Can you give me month and year?

> > > >

> > > > When they introduced Soulbeast...

> > > > Merging with the pet for the 40% damage boost didnt exist for the first 4 or so years of the game.

> > >

> > > Soulbeast has been introduced late 2017.

> > > The 40% dmg boost was [introduced in 2013](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22/history "introduced in 2013"), but before that it has dmg boost too, just it didn't say it is 40%

> > > 2 years no complaints and suddenly some people just want random nerfs.

> > >

> > > > @"Crystal Paladin.3871" said:

> > > > Since boonbeast variants nerfed with moa stance, rangers been trying out diff builds to be effective... And a few equip zerky jerky builds and embraced longbows in their weapon slots once again... Now ppl who were used to fighting meele setup boonbeast build started encountering sniper builds... Now all they remember when dying is longbow hits or maul hits... and Now they ask for nerfs...

> > > >

> > > > When's the Last time Ranger buff listed in release notes? 5 or 6 months??? Idk

> > > >

> > > > I don't remember any significant buffs to ranger after boonbeast moa stance got nerfed ... So it might be players' illusion :p ... Idk I might be wrong

> > >

> >

> > I dont understand ur confusion. I believe he means from sic em creation up until soulbeast was added it only gave pet 40% damage boost and not ranger. Once soulbeast was added the player was than included in the damage multipliers when merged. Soulbeast is definitely way over tuned along with spellbreaker,fb, and holo. Where were all these ridiculous views on why a class isn't OP when thief and mirage xey's filled the forums lmao oh wait gues theres just more mains in the powercrept classes.

>

> I am not confused. Soulbeast is here since 2017, now is 2019. There are no posts from 2017 about Sic 'Em nerf.

U can thank the now gutted theif and mirage specs for taking all the attention off of soulbeast and other powercrept classes lmao the bias towards those two classes had everyone blind to anything else. Also when soulbeast first released people were disappointed at first due to its flavor not being as great as others but as soon as more and more players started to play it they realized how effective it can be. U cannot argue the powercrept level of suatain-damage sb does as well as literally one skill at 1500+ range one shotting all squishy classes even in marauder gear while being unblockable. I mean u can try but u all just sound like ranger mains who dont want ur OP spec nerfed in line,oh wait.

> @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > > > @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > > > > > @"verskore.4312" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ben K.6238" said:

> > > > > > > > Sorry. Agreement ain't gonna happen.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It's blatantly OP.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > blatantly OP? lol sorry but that agreement aint gonna happen either boi.

> > > > > > > Skill hasnt been changed for years but suddenly it's blatantly OP?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The skill was changed though...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It used to be pet specific but now its not, now it effects the Ranger too.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > When was it changed?

> > > >

> > > > Isnt that obvious by what I posted?

> > > >

> > >

> > > No it is not. Can you give me month and year?

> >

> > When they introduced Soulbeast...

> > Merging with the pet for the 40% damage boost didnt exist for the first 4 or so years of the game.

>

> Soulbeast has been introduced late 2017.

> The 40% dmg boost was [introduced in 2013](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22/history "introduced in 2013"), but before that it has dmg boost too, just it didn't say it is 40%

> 2 years no complaints and suddenly some people just want random nerfs.

>

> > @"Crystal Paladin.3871" said:

> > Since boonbeast variants nerfed with moa stance, rangers been trying out diff builds to be effective... And a few equip zerky jerky builds and embraced longbows in their weapon slots once again... Now ppl who were used to fighting meele setup boonbeast build started encountering sniper builds... Now all they remember when dying is longbow hits or maul hits... and Now they ask for nerfs...

> >

> > When's the Last time Ranger buff listed in release notes? 5 or 6 months??? Idk

> >

> > I don't remember any significant buffs to ranger after boonbeast moa stance got nerfed ... So it might be players' illusion :p ... Idk I might be wrong

>

I dont understand ur confusion. I believe he means from sic em creation up until soulbeast was added it only gave pet 40% damage boost and not ranger. Once soulbeast was added the player was than included in the damage multipliers when merged. Soulbeast is definitely way over tuned along with spellbreaker,fb, and holo. Where were all these ridiculous views on why a class isn't OP when thief and mirage xey's filled the forums lmao oh wait gues theres just more mains in the powercrept classes.

When it's thief or mesmer being effective at anything- nerf cry's flood the forums. It's unfair, gut it,something needs to be done whine whine whine.

When it's any other class- use los,get gud,l2p,just dodge and stay outa range lmao

Seriously ridiculous

Thief's next weapon should be in line with the balance teams direction and vision of thief as a class. I think a pool noodle would be a fitting weapon choice.

> @"Creaitov.6328" said:

> Maybe instead of removing the CD on weapon swap, just give each weapon set a separate initiative bar? After all, initiative is our cooldowns so it makes sense to have a separate bar for each weapon. Then just rework quick pockets to reducing the weapon swap CD rather than restoring ini (kinda like the warrior trait).

>

> I dunno, just an idea.

Great idea quick pocket like trait could replace preparedness when it becomes baseline :)

Lmao great vid

What do you want to see changed on the thief class to make it more enjoyable through all game modes? Who know maybe arenet will take notice of what its paying customers want out of the actual class they spend time and money on.

I'd like:

- preparedness baseline

- ricochet brought back

- lead attacks reverted for DD and core

- weapon auto dps increase across all weapons even if slight

- increased speed on staff skill animations

- a real f skill for DD that lends to a brawler spec

- venom and trap revision

I'm happy with my raptor. Ull do they story but I dont have time to do the collections even if I wanted to.

Daggers and other lower range weapons would have to be balanced to make up for the range loss so every fight against say gs isn't in the gs user's favor considering the already difficult time the team has with balance I think it's better as is lol

> @"Wiler.9873" said:

> 90% No.

>

> Holy .... this is like the most one sided pool I ever seen around here.

Yet will be ignored more than likely

Necro players have been asking for a stow minion option forever but gues it's too hard to add for the devs

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> 9 points on how to best kill WvW. Its actually rather impressive.

10th point

Keep same balance team.

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Soulbeast escapes again lol

>

> They get buffed every patch despite being one of the worst designed, least fun classes in the entire game.

They better get one heck of a trade off considering what my already flimsy DD got. The balance team for this game are somthing else that's for sure

I find reaper and soulbeast to both be fun in pve. Ranger has great flavor if u like the nature theme and is very versatile in builds and roles it can be viable in. Reaper is also a very flavorful spec and very versatile but not as wanted in higher end raid groups at times. With reaper I found once u get used to the class get rid of the minions as it makes the reaper much more of a active playstyle and made it alot more enjoyable.

With all that said I'm the opposite of most people and enjoy the thief over other classes in pve due to the mobility and initiative. The style and archetype of the class also adds alot cuz assissins are obviously cool lol. With how easy most pve is it's nice to be able to mess around with all the thiefs skills and builds and still wreck stuff. I dont like pvp with thief as much because

1- get two shot by almost every class no matter the skill used

2-dps most often barely dents opponents hp unless it's another thief

3- initiative is a double edged sword especially if ur dps is low compared to other classes sustain ie run out of ini leaves u useless more times than not and cant weapon swap to reset other weapon skills.

4- because u cant viably 1v1 ur delegated to decapping and +1 which is boring lol.

Revs have high burst and have cool skills and are also versatile but if ur used to thiefs disengage potential u may find it annoying that rev has 0 ways of disengaging without having a target outside of using shiro quickness and running away. Reaper atleast u can set wurm up preemptively or use spec walk and tele out when u need with no target needed. Soulbeast with gs/owl has great mobility and disengagrment potential as well.

My 2 cents anyway lol

Disregard post

> @"KelyNeli.4516" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Thief will just evade and stealth back stab for 15k lmao oh its that easy against these powercrept classes now is it?warrior being one of em lmao ontop hit thief twice with ur crazy over all dps and its dead. Few nights back me and another two pubs were chasing a warrior and I was behind him whole time feeding him staff blows n DD while the other two were unloading on him as well and ran into his camp where we couldnt follow,he ran for a good 10 seconds with us tagging him. He didnt even use his gs mobility or nothing,just ran so warrior gets no sympathy for me. Nerf was justified. Sustain needs dropped across the board as well.

>

> But have you recognized the spec he was playing? I would have no doubts that you played against spellbreaker and not berserker. Arc divider is exclusive thing to berserker, mainly because he lacks in deffensives, he would not be able to survive 2 thiefs jumped on him

> Idk do you people realize what spec is the discussion about, berserker is not an invincible killing machine, all he has is pure damage, conditions eats him alive.

> Arc divider can be used only by berserker and only in berserker mode which he needs 30 adrenaline to turn it on. Just bcs you have meet a warrior class doesnt mean its all the warrior specs that does crazy things. Berserker has thoughness debuff and all he gets from his tree are damage buffs and he need to generate full adreline bar in order to make any use of it, without it he is a 2 trait tree spec. His rage skills are just condition and cc.

Can berserker not trait endure pain? Defence line with lesser endure pain? A heal skill that absorbs damage for a time to use towards the heal? Hiw long is that in total invincibility? If they don't trait those skills for sustain and go for all dps that's their trade off but there is options. Anyway I'm just saying a good warrior easily stomps a good thief everytime so comparing them is silly if we talking who's better in a fight,if were talking who's better at disengaging than yeah warriors good with gs but thief is better. Also my point was arc devider still hits very hard,people have gotten far to used to powercreep. Fixing other aspects of berserker so it isn't reliant on a single OP skill would be far better than it remaining a spec that needs one skill to be viable.

> @"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:

> Why are you acting surprised?

> Deadeye can hit for +20k from stealth.

> Mesmer can hit for +20k from stealth.

> Soulbeast can hit for +20K from stealth.

> This game is dominated by these kind of builds and average fight lasts for 1-2 sec. PVP in here require 0 amount of brain power, because all have to do is to sneak on an enemy and one-shot them. And that's literally the reason why i can't play this game more than few days per month - brain-dead gameplay. This game require at least 80% nerf in damage and healing so that fights would last on average for at least 30 sec.

Ummm this games pvp is dominated by DE and stealthing mesmers? Lol we playing the same game cuz pretty sure that's incorrect by a large margin.