Psycoprophet.8107

U sure a dagger didn’t clip a bird?

> @"Xterra.6172" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > By ur argument all skill require pressing bottons than therefore are designed as spamming? So if arenet deside a class that just walks forward spamming large aoe’s everywhere and stack with allies doingvthe same delete most opponents in seconds in huge area’s around battles forcing everyone to die or stay on outskirts of battle picking off the scraps,this is ok cuz other classes have to press a button to use skills? Oh wait I just described scourge.Than gues all nerf threads and balance itself is moot because every class must be balanced because it’s mech are based around pressing buttons to preform a action lol right! A scourge mindlessly spamming is far different than almost any class spamming there skill on a skill to reward level, look at that ranger,engi and thief just spammInfo his skills and the equal impact it has with scourge lol

>

> it's literally every class in the game that is designed like this. not just scourge.

>

> there are only 4 weapon skills and autoattacks available to a player. it wouldn't make much sense to jack up the weapon skill cooldowns so that all we're doing is autoattacking each other for 3 minutes would it? and most utility and F skills on are ~30 sec cooldowns give or take which is pretty reasonable as well.

>

> the real reason that people complain about "spam" is that we're piling up a bunch of the same class into a group and then fighting each other with it. no kitten it looks like "spam". you could nerf the kitten out every class's cooldowns to like 5 minutes and it would still look like "spam" because 12 necros is 12 necros. i'm getting real sick of this "spam" complaint.

Seriously? Scourge is only class in game that can mindlessly spam aoe’s with other scourges in a group and walk forward spamming deleting large amounts of opponents. Thanks for explaining how all classes press buttons to perform skills :) so 6 thieves aoe next to a fire brand mindlessly killing hordes of enemies? Ranger,engi and warrior too? Weird it’s only scourges I see doing this. It’s funny if I mindlessly walk forward and spam on my s/d thief results are vastly different than when I do on my scourge,must just be me cuz both require pressing buttons lol

> @"Derenaya.3479" said:

> > @"Shala.8352" said:

> > > @"Derenaya.3479" said:

> > > > @"Shala.8352" said:

> > > > **Mesmer**: Power lock reduced range to 300 from 1200. Also added a cast time of 1/2 sec with a big tell visual animation. Can't perform Power lock from stealth.

> > > > **Chronomancer**: remove Deja vu. You already blocking attacks, summoning phantasm and gaining protection and still moving while blocking, i don't see why you should be even more rewarded for blocking in an aoe spam game.

> > > > **Mirage**: if you want to keep all your defensive tools, then you will have to sacrifice your attacks: add 1s cast time (with animation) for f1-f2-f3 shatters when choosing mirage trait line. This is to make Mirage more susceptible to CC and daze effects.

> > > > **Boonbeast**: remove any stability gain from dolyak stance. You are already a kiting class with the higher dmg reduction in the game, why you need stability?

> > > > **holosmith**: too much quickness, no time to react even to big tell animations make the game with no counterplays. No more quickness gain from radiant arc.

> > > > **Revenant**: skill 4 sword off hand no more dmg, bring it back to a normal block as it was. Revenant lacks defence, not DMG. Also reduce the cast time and energy consumption for this skill off course.

> > > > **Herald**: shield skill 5 allow you to move and doesnt root you in place anymor

> > > > **Renegade**: add/replace a short bow skill with a movement skill (no care wich type, if a back roll or a translate left or right after using the skill) that consume no energy. Renegade lacks on defence and mobility, and has already big energy consuming skills with low reward.

> > > > **Warrior**: Rampage: 150 second cooldown. This should be your last resource instead of another possible CC spam abuse.

> > > > **Spellbreaker**: Disrupting Stab, remove the stun effect. You are already dazing the target and dealing more dmg because he was using a skill, why another stun reward?

> > > > **Thief**: pistol 4 no more spammable, add a 1/2 cast time to pistol 4. Stop the no brain spam of CC in this game plz. If you can CC, you have to time it.

> > > > **Deadeye**: no more stealth on evade. Why rewarding a class for evading an attack? The evade itself is already the reward!

> > > > **Guardian**: big tell animation 3/4s cast time on Judge intervention. So that you can't easy chain skills with it while teleporting.

> > > > **Druid**: remove stealth from celestial shadow. You are a Druid not a Thief. Stop giving stealth to any class randomly. Replace the stealth effect with vigor (2s).

> > > > **Necromancer/Scourge** why all the animations for these classes look the same? Can't you put more effort on the animation for this classes? Really these classes look like AOE spam bots simply because all of their animation looks all the same!!! Especialy the staff ones, simply shaking his left hand...

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Thief: I think that would be a bad change. How would you interrupt anything if your interrupt skill has 1/2s cast time? You‘d have to guess which skill your enemy will use next insted of locking at the animation and actually time it properly. Besides if you spam it (2-3 times) you‘re gonna die because you won‘t have initiative left to do anything. And btw it‘s a 1/4s daze, not CC.

> >

> > Daze is a CC. I think in this game only two type of skills should have no cast time: stun breakers and autoattacks.

>

> Well okay, I doesn‘t really matter what we call it. My point still stands tho, atm you use all you‘re Initiative for 3/4s of daze if you spam it. Imo that‘s punishment enough. And how would you use the skill if your changes would be made? I‘d say the skill becomes useless but maybe you see something that I don‘t?

Thief is glassy by its designed nature. It uses evade and mobility for its lack of sustain. It has a block ( bandits Defense) that’s one of if not shortest blocks in game, 1 1/4 sec I think compared to most 3-4 sec blocks on most other classes that have not only more hp but multiple types of blocks among other defences like invulnerability a lot of them have on top. Thief had what? Instant reflexes lol oh that’s reliable. U guys are complaining about a less than a second daze? It should be 1 sec daze at least!

Who is mindlessly aoe spaming killing masses of opponents? Not arguing I legit want to kno. There’s definitely issues with some small group/ roaming builds like soulbeast,holo and mirage but other than Condi Mirage no ones brainlessly walking in a direction spamming aoe’s racking in the kills. Roamer s have there op builds that are overperfoming vs other Roamer/small groups but they have little impact in the blobs and roaming usually contributes little to server success

Every Zerg- fbs+ scourges brainless spamm and other allies picking up scraps or opponents that are on sidelines outa scourge aoe fields reach. Goes for both sides, sounds like good design

By ur argument all skill require pressing bottons than therefore are designed as spamming? So if arenet deside a class that just walks forward spamming large aoe’s everywhere and stack with allies doingvthe same delete most opponents in seconds in huge area’s around battles forcing everyone to die or stay on outskirts of battle picking off the scraps,this is ok cuz other classes have to press a button to use skills? Oh wait I just described scourge.Than gues all nerf threads and balance itself is moot because every class must be balanced because it’s mech are based around pressing buttons to preform a action lol right! A scourge mindlessly spamming is far different than almost any class spamming there skill on a skill to reward level, look at that ranger,engi and thief just spammInfo his skills and the equal impact it has with scourge lol

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > I love how daggerstorm is a problem due to 4 sec evade when most other professions like guard have multiple blocks,some lasting 4 seconds themselves and a 3 sec invulnerability. Thief has a 11/4 second block or somthing and DS does 4 sec of evade,is it because it does damage too? Not saying DS doesn’t need toned down but compared to where the games at is it that op? Can a guard,warrior or soulbeast not stay on point as long or longer using invulnerability and blocks? NOt saying a thief should be holding a point just saying seems strange hearing a complaint about DS allowing a thief to hold a point when there’s so many skills on so many classes that would allow same thing.

> Invulnerabilities do prevent capture point contesting (guards trying to hold a point with renewed focus is always good for a laugh).

>

> An evasion is even a stonger form of invulnerability because it does not prevent capture point contesting. So the mechanic of daggerstorm is debateable. The very few counters are not relevant - basically shocking aura is the only one as the thief is not forced to cross the guard or necro ring which would interrupt dagger storm.

>

> The 4s evasion on dagger storm was broken the moment it was introduced. It's not gamebreaking, but it's maximum annoyance up to ridiculousness when it's resetted via improvisation and can be used twice in a row. All in all a good example for ANet's long list of skill design fails.

>

> Can I have a 4s invulnerability on chilled to the bone please? I do trade the stability for it like thieves did with dagger storm - no problem at all!

Thief would love ur hp,especially with shroud thrown in, can argue that stuff all day lol necro would love the evades etc lol. I’m just saying thief is glassy by nature and uses evades for its sustainability. If all the powercrept defences were dropped of most classes necro excluded cuz shroud isn’t that great for sustain than thief losing some evade time might not be to bad even given how glassy it is. Maybe the ability for it being used twice via trait should be removed.

Yeah ur right scourges are fine in how their mechanics/aoe’s work in zergs lol donno what I was thinking

All classes are built around spamming skills? Really?

It’s the design of scourge and the people’s nature to abuse it to a ridiculous level. U get 10 scourges that just walk and spam and rewarded for such mindless skill spamming the majority of kills,it’s dumb. If people were different and didn’t care about just results and how it kills the fun for everyone in the battles. Maybe if there was a limit on scourges in groups but that obviously isn’t going to happen. I get that their supposed to be good in groups but it gets ridiculous when there’s a group of them and the whole floors a kill zone for soo many meters around the battle zone. It’s just too much

In my server wvw is essentially scourge wars with people picking scraps off on the side. Blobs of all sizes usually consist mostly of scourges and fb. They literally walk forward covering massive areas with Condi aoe’s so anyone getting close here’s cc’d and Condi to death in seconds. Which ever blob can cover the larger area/has more scourges win. So I’d say thier presence and impact on zergs needs toned down. Donno how it is on other servers.

> @"Derenaya.3479" said:

> > @"Ovark.2514" said:

> > > @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > > > @"Ovark.2514" said:

> > > > Mesmer: Blinding Dissipation: Clones cause Blindness (3 sec) when they Shatter. (this can only activate once per shatter)

> > > > Mirage: Infinite Horizon: The mirage cloak gained by clones does not make them invulnerable (they gain the icon though)

> > > > Chronomancer: ChronoPantasma and Illusionary Reversion are now at the same tier

> > > > Thief: Flanking Strike: No longer un-blockable

> > > > Daredevil: Distracting Daggers: This skill no longer has ammo. This skill has a it's recharge reduced to 3 seconds if your successfully interrupt a foe with a dagger.

> > > > Deadeye: Silent Scope: You no longer gain Stealth in dodge. Death's retreat has it's distance reduced to 400 and it's initiative reduced to 3.

> > > > Guardian: Judges Intervention: Now has a 1/2 sec cast time (with animation)

> > > > Dragon Hunter: Hunter's Determination: (New trait) Becoming stunned while near a Fragment of Faith consumes it instead.

> > > > Firebrand: Nothing is glaring atm... it's also late.

> > > > Ranger: Protective Ward: Now has no ICD and activates each time you lose 25% of your health in a single strike.

> > > > Soulbeast: Dolyak Stance: Remove the damage and condition damage reduction. Stability stacks reduced to three.

> > > > Druid: Celestial Shadow: Super speed and stealth are now only granted to you and your pet.

> > > > Necromancer: Each mark now has a unique animation of it being summoned on the ground (visual tell)

> > > > Reaper: Chilling Nova: Critically hitting a chilled foe deals damage and chills non-chilled nearby foes (remove ICD)

> > > > Scourge: Reduce visual noise somehow. . . it's too late i gtg to bed otherwise would figure it out.

> > > > Warrior: Defy Pain: Is replaced with a different trait

> > > > Berserker: Sundering Leap: CD reduced to 15 sec. Damage increased to 800. Applies 2 seconds of Immobilize.

> > > > Spellbreaker: Magebane Tether: Pull now only activates if you are facing your foe.

> > > > Elementalist: Blinding Flash: Now has a 1/2 sec animation and requires you to be facing your foe.

> > > > Engineer: Elixir S: Now cancels Stomp

> > > > Holosmith: Thermal Release Valve: Now only reduces heat when in Photon Forge mode

> > > > Scrapper: Shredder Gyro: Now regenerates health as it strikes foes.

> > > > Revenant: Riposting Shadows: Now requires at least 30 energy but consumes all energy when used.

> > > > Herald: Elemental Blase (consume): Now has a 1/2 sec cast time and deals 1/3 the damage it used to. This skill now deals 10% more damage for every 2 seconds of swiftness you have (max 200% more damage).

> > > > Renegade: Summons: When summoned have 20% more health for each enemy within 1200 units.

> > > >

> > >

> > > There's literally no reason to nerf flanking strike. There is literally no 1 complaining thief is op. It's dps is laughable compared to other classes. The only good thing going for it is that it's a good clean up +1.

> > >

> > > For DE's changes you should play DE to find that with out slient scope you basically just die. You should also find that a DE has zero swiftness and is dead slow.thats why deaths retreat is needed. This limits a DE to only shortbow as the alternate set. You are basically trying to make it a class that has zero defense and escape. So you can 1 shot it With out any means to escape by changing it's only 2 defensive traits.while arguebly slient scope needs to be removed. Something else defensive must replace it. Else it will just become a dead class.

> >

> > Players need to have some recourse for avoiding Sword 3. ATM both parts are unblockable with is insane. Counter-play needeed. There are such things as combo fields in this game. My DE change was designed to let a rifle DE gain stealth by using Death's Retreat in Sniper's Cover field. I've heard DE mains that say that the stealth on dodge is unnecessary since they can gain whatever stealth is needed if they are smart and play well anyway.

>

> Evades? Blinds? Idk but if you take the unblockable away S/D Core Thief will be kitten.

There are other unblockables in game aswell as thru traits,ranger being example that can do far greater damage per hit and thru burst set ups using unblickables while being more sustainable. Flanking strike definitely is not an issue.

I love how daggerstorm is a problem due to 4 sec evade when most other professions like guard have multiple blocks,some lasting 4 seconds themselves and a 3 sec invulnerability. Thief has a 11/4 second block or somthing and DS does 4 sec of evade,is it because it does damage too? Not saying DS doesn’t need toned down but compared to where the games at is it that op? Can a guard,warrior or soulbeast not stay on point as long or longer using invulnerability and blocks? NOt saying a thief should be holding a point just saying seems strange hearing a complaint about DS allowing a thief to hold a point when there’s so many skills on so many classes that would allow same thing.

I’m guesing he meant feeling useless

If ur looking for tanky for small scale/roaming choose soulbeast boonbeast build or holo. U can stand infront of ur enemy laughing while it tickles u untill all their high damage attacks are on cooldown if u use ur defences right than burst most classes to 0 in seconds :) very low learning curve to both,just don’t try and do same on Core Engi unless u are very good on ur kb. With soulbeast while ur taking a few hrs to master the class u can just slap sic em on and pew pew cheese people from wall etc like most soulbeast do lol

> @"crewthief.8649" said:

> > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > > > 20+ people fighting with 1-2 perma evade condi thief at the moment: Remove this trash ocne after all

> > > >

> > > > Where is 'no skill' mesmer when you need it when you can have only toxic design profession doing all the work at the same time?

> > > >

> > > > (Come to my server and see for yourself- 1-2 perma evade condi thief killing 1-20+ players in 0=5 seconds at the same time

> > > >

> > > > Yup!! let me know when mesmer can do this so we can 'nerf' them

> > > >

> > > > We are tired and are wasting valuable learning time

> > > > Goodbye-going to play competitor healthy competitive game

> > > >

> > > > ((I encourage Anet to come to see it for themselves))-they seem to have gone---stealth traps set everywhere as a laughing stock to them.

> > > >

> > > > Anyhow, bye

> > > >

> > > > This is what a perma condi evade thief look like

> > > > **Condi evade spam thief**

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Why condi thief is bad for GW2

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Haha wow comparing Condi thief to Condi Mirage,u gotta be kidding me. No ones complained about Condi thief for yrs but mirage,think I can find a few recent posts lol. Some players I swear are playing a different game or think something is op if it downs them a few times or if they see a vid of someone doing well with a build. And look yet another mesmer defence relying on deflection to another class. Next it will be mirage is not op look at soulbeast stances and sic em builds lol

> >

> > --this is not a mesmer 'defence', this is about Thief being the worse offender than Mesmer and should take full responsibility for starting the toxic war in the first place.

> >

> >

>

> That's just blatantly false. You've had it out for thief for _years_, I'd thought you would have worked that out at this point. Apparently not.

I would understand somewhat if he had issues with perma DE backstabbing him constantly but he seems like he’s on a personal mission to try and get core nerfed even more as if the some s/d or p/d core/dd’s are running around stomping holo’s,soulbeast etc into the ground in duels and group battles lol. Thief can win don’t get me wrong but requires out playing and usually out skilling the opponent,unlike the roll on kB classes he defends or fails to mention. I won’t mention either.

Problem is if they say thier hoping to release somthing and give a certain date a lot of forum members ignore the phrasing and consider it set in stone and a lot of back lash if it doesn’t altho lack of communication because of this imho will hurt a company more than it helps. Digital Extremes does this quite well, I am in no way comparing games.

There are times that DE deals with backlash due to methods but as a whole most warframe players boast about supporting DE even when they fail on somthing due to the fact that they try and communicate on a regular basis about things there working on and future things their working on,even as far as showing the progresses of unfinished projects on live stream. Where’s our version of tennocon? Lol

> @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> I remember the only and only time I stepped on Mirage and went into WvW, I found someone, mashed the buttons, and they ended up with 8 stacks of torment and 8 stacks of confusion on them (along with something else). I thought to myself, you gotta be kidding me. Of all conditions, that's what someone gets hit with. The defense? Stand there and do nothing? Clear them? Sure, but look how easy they were to apply. Nobody should even attempt to be defending this type of spec.

I agree but apparently from mirage mains view it is fine and it’s other specs that are over performing, we just need to learn to play against mirages lol

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > @"kins.3294" said:

> > Any thoughts on when we might receive the update?

>

> My guess would be Tuesday, as it’s the normal day for patches. Though it may be out of ‘cycle’ for a patch.

Next Tuesday probably

No it’s about in every thread thief among others are deflected to instead of staying on topic at hand. And by saying Condi thief is a worse offender than Condi Mirage let alone even comparable u lose all credibility in ur post. U are literally in every nerf mirage post I’ve looked at deflecting to thief haha. If theif is giving u so many issues in the state it’s in today DE perma stealth cheese not withstanding u have a big l2p issue not thief is op issue :) it’s funny other than few DE permastealth complaints there’s no threads on DD/core thief being op using any build yet it’s a worse defender than a spec that literally see’s multiple threads popping up almost daily about how broken it is,hmm seems logical. A class isn’t op just because u cant fight it or due to u personally disliking it unfortunately.

> @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Ruufio.1496" said:

> > > Buff thief

> >

> > I agree buff thief

>

> Fixed it for you both

>

>

+1

Yes my mistake,thank u for catching that :)

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> 20+ people fighting with 1-2 perma evade condi thief at the moment: Remove this trash ocne after all

>

> Where is 'no skill' mesmer when you need it when you can have only toxic design profession doing all the work at the same time?

>

> (Come to my server and see for yourself- 1-2 perma evade condi thief killing 1-20+ players in 0=5 seconds at the same time

>

> Yup!! let me know when mesmer can do this so we can 'nerf' them

>

> We are tired and are wasting valuable learning time

> Goodbye-going to play competitor healthy competitive game

>

> ((I encourage Anet to come to see it for themselves))-they seem to have gone---stealth traps set everywhere as a laughing stock to them.

>

> Anyhow, bye

>

> This is what a perma condi evade thief look like

> **Condi evade spam thief**

>

>

>

> Why condi thief is bad for GW2

>

>

>

Haha wow comparing Condi thief to Condi Mirage,u gotta be kidding me. No ones complained about Condi thief for yrs but mirage,think I can find a few recent posts lol. Some players I swear are playing a different game or think something is op if it downs them a few times or if they see a vid of someone doing well with a build. And look yet another mesmer defence relying on deflection to another class. Next it will be mirage is not op look at soulbeast stances and sic em builds lol

> @"Kolisch.4691" said:

> Run away builds contribute nothing in the outcome of a wvw matchup. I'd love it if everyone just fights in a 10sf box but ANET would only balance things by blob vs blob.

>

>

Yeah that be fun but may aswell delete all but soulbeast,holo and mirage cuz that’s all anyone would play lol

> @"Ruufio.1496" said:

> I agree nerf mirage and thief

I agree nerf mirage,DE,soulbeast and holo

Fixed it for u

Is there a date for said announcement?